Glasgow & Edinburgh Discussion Thread 31: The Roadmap for Success Vs The Perpetual Roadworks of Incompetence

[NeilyBroon]

First topic message reminder :

As requested, another thread connected by the M8. Two teams about as comparable as Adam Peaty and Eric the Eel.

Will Glasgow build on their title win next season?

Will Edinburgh even make the top half of the table?

Speculation and more on another volume of the patter papers.

[BigGee]

Very strong hints around that Glasgow are going to step in and take the Commonwealth Games back in 2026.

A slightly reduced version this time, but Glasgow does have a very good record now of putting on major sporting events, so if anyone can make something of it, then they should be able to.

I was at the last games in 2014 and it really was some event. The rugby sevens at Ibrox and the atmosphere at Hampden for the Athletics was just amazing and the whole city was just rocking. Even the weather was amazing. It was an unforgettable experience.

I am a little concerned how a scaled down version might look and feel in comparison though.

The talk this time is that the main athletics venue will be Scotstoun and even us die hard Glasgow fans will admit to it's shortcomings as a venue, it is going to need some considerable work and investment to get it anywhere near what it will need to be for such a prestigious event.

That could easily impact the Warriors use of it in the 2025/26 season, if they have to take it out of commission to knock it into shape. It also begs the question what we might be left with afterwards, a much better stadium or a building site?

Will watch this one with great interest

[formerly known as Sam]

Surely Scotstoun will be to small for the athletics. Isn't it only 5k capacity? I'd expect at least five times that in attendance, more for the marquee events.

[BigGee]

It very much depends on how it is configured.

It has 2 permanent stands, one big, one not so big and for rugby some temporary structures which take it up to around 7.5K

However when the sevens took place there, the temporary seating was increased up to around 20K.

The issues will not be around the amount of temporary seating that can be put in. I have no doubt that it could easily get well north of 20K if designed properly. I was also at the games in Birmingham in 2022 and they transformed the Alexandra Stadium in Perry Barr, probably a similar venue to Scotstoun into a rocking venue holding around 35K.

The issue with Scotstoun is its lack of facilities to cope with the crowds and it does not seem to have the same footprint as the Alexandra to expand into.

It also has issues with access, the moaning local population don't even like rugby games there every 2 weekends, so how they might cope with 35K coming in and out twice a day for 2 weeks begs a question.

None of these problems are unsolvable but they will take some will and the times sale is very tight.

If may very conceivably have an effect on GW playing in the Interim period while any reconfigurstion is ongoing.

If it does happen and the ground is owned by the Glasgow local authority, so it may not be optional, then GW could be looking for a temporary new home.

[formerly known as Sam]

The games would take place in July or August so the impact on the Warriors would be limited to playing pre season friendlies away from home. I presume the Warriors have a separate training base.

[BigGee]

No, Warriors train at Scotstoun as well as play there.


It would not just be a brief interruption for them, as major work would be involved in the reconfiguration which they would normally want in place well ahead of the games. They usually like to run a test event or two before the main event to make sure they can manage the crowds and all others systems will be in place.

There will also need to be a warm up track and other facilities for the athletes put in place.

If the Athletics is to be at Scotstoun then it will be majorly disruptive for the Warriors to the point where they may well have to move out of Scotstoun to allow it all to happen.

[bsando]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/mosese-tuipulotu-has-potential-to-play-for-scotland-but-will-need-time-warns-everitt/?cookie-state-change=1723698192750

A lot of the issues from last season seem to be getting addressed at Edinburgh this pre season. They’ve made the relevant signings to improve the backline, focussed on that during pre season training, talked down Tuipultou Jr prospects, added experience to both the pack and backline while relieving Healy of a heavy workload while giving young Thompson more game time. It may not end up being a good season but everything I wanted to see change from last season has occurred. The hope levels are rising 

[jimbopip]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/mosese-tuipulotu-has-potential-to-play-for-scotland-but-will-need-time-warns-everitt/?cookie-state-change=1723698192750

A lot of the issues from last season seem to be getting addressed at Edinburgh this pre season. They’ve made the relevant signings to improve the backline, focussed on that during pre season training, talked down Tuipultou Jr prospects, added experience to both the pack and backline while relieving Healy of a heavy workload while giving young Thompson more game time. It may not end up being a good season but everything I wanted to see change from last season has occurred. The hope levels are rising  :roll:

It's the hope that kills you.
Does Healey look like a genuine play-making 10? In still photographic images; yes. In moving video type images; not so much.

Does Mosese look like an international class centre? He really does. But that's just family resemblance.

It's the hope that kills you.

[BigGee]

Edinburgh Rugby is pleased confirm the appointment of Scott Mathie as the club’s new Attack and Backs Coach on a two-year deal.


A new and some would say, long overdue, new attack coach for Edinburgh.


He comes from the MLR, having been head coach of the New England Free Jacks, who have won the comp for the past two years. So he seems to have something about him and 'up and coming' would seem to be a reasonable description.

Rob Chrystie, who to be fair, does not seem to have set the heather on fire in his time in the role. moves to a skills coach and in charge of the A team.

[bsando]

Another good move, it was clear the Edinburgh attack was not performing well. I hope he can make a difference in a short period of time. Aldo good that chrystie is still a involved in the Scottish game, it’s good to be giving Scottish coaches a chance to shine, it won’t always work out.

[jimbopip]

The Embra attack was somewhere between being savaged by a dead sheep and receiving a severe tongue lashing from Harpo Marx. So there's plenty for the new boy to work with.

On the rugby side of things... The Champions have just signed a tight head from Down Under. Takai ( first name Ticky?) Is 32 years old and I don't recall him playing for The Criminal Element. So, a squad filler until Schickerling and/or Richardson are ready to shave more than twice a week.

[jimbopip]

I take it back...he has been capped for Oz and apparently does a good rendition of Bon Jovi's Living On A Prayer.
Given that Ragnar is a choir boy the post match showers could be very competitive.

[Welshmushroom]

Glasgow seem well stocked for next season at 1 & 3. Lots of props. They are doing exactly what is now needed in the URC. If you have 4 solid props you will do well but having 6 takes the guesswork out completely and allows plenty of rotation.

[Hazel Sapling]

Bit worried that means there has been an injury.

LH: Bhatti, Sutherland, McBeth, Dell
TH: Zander, Walker, Talakai, Schnikerling, Richardson

Talakai will be 33 and probably would have had more caps if he did not head to Japan when he was 27. On the fringes of the Aussie squad but it appears the chips did not fall his way for the 2023 RWC and then the disbanding of the Rebels probably ended any hope of getting back in. An experienced head for the youngsters to learn from.

Hopefully Franco gives Walker plenty of minutes (if he can stay fit) and we use Talakai to take minutes from Zander.

[Welshmushroom]

Walker surely has to be 4th choice in that tighthead group? I'm not sure he is up to it at that level. Seems to lack some of the bulk and power at 3. The last few seasons in the URC are showing us the days of the lighter tightheads is coming to an end (assuming you actually want to win games).

I'd go as far as to say 3 is so critical now that its probably very close between 3, 10 and 4 (enforcer) in terms of the most critical positions now. Think a lot of sides next season will probably be carrying quite a heavy front 5. I think the days for those light mobile locks we used to see in the league might be coming to an end and be pushed to blindside as a lineout option.

Glasgow do look like they have a big pack to call on so they will no doubt be fine and even the squad as a whole looks very good for next season. Top 4 for that side is a minimum. I think I will be really interested to see how they go in the Champions Cup this year. Might be the first year they can actually do something there.

[bsando]

Great looking player. As Franco says, a guy who can help fill the void during the international window (and keep the wins coming).

[Hazel Sapling]

WM, I tend to agree that TH's these days need to be in the 120s for international duty unless they are on the short side (Nel and Slimani are prominent recent examples).

With Walker, he came back from a very long lay off and is only 24. This year he will have had a pre-season of some description (following the international tour) to put on a little extra bulk to hopefully go from 115kg to 120kg.

Talakai I can see being second choice if Walker does not quickly improve. My suspicion is that Fagerson/Walker and Talakai/Walker may be an approach Franco goes with to rotate the three.

Schnickerling is a buy low candidate after injuries and a drop off in form. At his best, he is an international quality TH so hopefully we can get him back to that. What I am expecting is a decent club prop who is NSQ. I would hope Walker gets preference over him unless he shows some of his old standard.

[BigGee]

Well the SRU have finally got around to appointing a performance director.

A certain David Nucifora, who has just left Ireland after 10 pretty successful years. A wonder how tyat is going to play out over the Irish Sea/

It is a slightly odd appointment, as he is coming on a 'consultancy' basis for a two year term. He has also signed up to do a small amount of consultancy work with Australia at the same time.

He has certainly got a pedigree and could be just the man to get our pathways on track at long last albeit you would prefer to have someone in place on a permanent contract, that may be something to do with the lack of a CEO appointment in that neithyer party wants to fully commit atm. Still we are not in a position to be all that choosy at the moment and landing a big fish probably deserves a bit of kudos.

Now all we need is a new CEO.

[BigGee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c3d9n3jyeg9o

Uncle Tom Grumpy seems pretty enthused at this appointment.

Mark Palmer in the Times was similarly gushing!

[EWT Spoons]

On paper getting him is a brilliant move by the SRU. However, only getting him on a part time basis for 2 years isn’t ideal. I really hope one of his first jobs is to identify and appoint his successor, so whoever they are can learn and develop under him for as long as possible. Failing that, the SRU need to act like a stubborn child refusing to take no for an answer and pester him to go full time and sign a permanent contract.

It took him 10 years (roughly) to get Ireland where they are, he’s going to have the equivalent of around 1 year with Scotland, so not expecting miracles from him

However long we have him for, he’s going to have a lot on his plate and I really hope the SRU do what needs to be done to make the necessary changes happen.

[bsando]

It all sounds great until you read that he will be working with Aus as well (albeit, mostly with Scotland) and only two years.

I'm sure it's a tough job finding the right candidate with limited choice, but I'd feel more excited to have someone who is a rising star of performance rather than the bloke who smashed it with Ireland and now fancies a change of scenery.

Did anyone notice Leon MacDonald has parted ways with the All Blacks? Apparently him and SR were not gelling.

[jimbopip]

Big Shona has signed on for another two years. This means Darge-Dempsey- Fagerson- Big Shona would be our fist choice with Henco- Miller- Brown-Ferrie-Mann as our squad players.
We live in a golden age.

[formerly known as Sam]

Did anyone notice Leon MacDonald has parted ways with the All Blacks? Apparently him and SR were not gelling.

Fundamental differences on how the team should be playing. We've seen the AB side employ different tactics over their games so far with substantial changes at half time Vs England in the first test particularly. Perhaps more than just the assumed adjusting to the opposition.

MacDonald and Robertson worked together at the Crusaders but post that MacDonald was the top man at the Blues. Perhaps he didn't adjust well to being a lieutenant again. Don't think there's any big jobs going for him in NZ right now so not sure what he'll do, apparently his payout from the ABs was six figures though.

[Welshmushroom]

There seems to be a bit of media talk in the media about Glasgow wanting to have a good run in the Champions Cup this season.

Looking at their pool reaching the last 16 is a must for that squad. The key to them getting further is how well they position themselves in the Pool Stages. I'd imagine at home Sale & Racing should be in the bag. But those away trips to Toulon & Harlequins. If they want a home Qtr final they will need to win at least one if not both.

Out of interest what would a good season in Europe look like for Glasgow fans? Last 8, Last 4 etc?

[BigGee]

Well as we have never gone past the first knockout round in Europe then I guess any improvement on that will be progress.

So many variables with these games though and always unclear how seriously some sides take it. One bad game can ruin your chances as well.

Hopefully we have worked out knock out rugby now after going close a few times in the past. We certainly seem to have a pretty deep squad these days, which is always useful in Europe.

[Hazel Sapling]

We have had several near misses over the years to win a knockout game in the Champions Cup.

Expectation is to make the knockouts and from there, it will depend who we get. We are a very good side who can beat anyone on our day but Racing at home and Toulon away is tough let alone Sale and Quins. Getting out the Group is nothing to sniff at.

If we make it and get the right draw in the knockouts, we can make a real run to the semi-final. We are not Leinster, La Rochelle or Toulouse with a superstar squad that can compete against top international sides.

Separate note, looked at the Racing squad, how is Chat only 28? Thought for sure he was in his 30s and that was why he was not playing for France.

[formerly known as Sam]

We have had several near misses over the years to win a knockout game in the Champions Cup.

Expectation is to make the knockouts and from there, it will depend who we get. We are a very good side who can beat anyone on our day but Racing at home and Toulon away is tough let alone Sale and Quins. Getting out the Group is nothing to sniff at.

If we make it and get the right draw in the knockouts, we can make a real run to the semi-final. We are not Leinster, La Rochelle or Toulouse with a superstar squad that can compete against top international sides.

Separate note, looked at the Racing squad, how is Chat only 28? Thought for sure he was in his 30s and that was why he was not playing for France.

Leinster are a top international side.

[bsando]

Apparently Scott Hastings wife has gone missing while wild swimming. Very sad news, my thoughts go out to the Hastings family and friends.

[BigGee]

She unfortunately has a history of mental health issues and has gone missing before.

It is a bit of worry and hopefully she will be found

[George Carlin]

Did everyone have a good summer? Any good trips?

[jimbopip]

Did everyone have a good summer? Any good trips?

Morning Peeps morning GC. Trips? I assume you don't mean that in an acidic manner. Hey ho... In May MrsPip and myself took childers, spouses and grandchilders to DisneyWorld and Universal in Orlando. I know, I know..no museums or Art Galleries no breathtaking natural beauty; only a godawful temple to mammon...but I loved it. Next weekend herself and I are off to Kefalonia, I have never been there so any tips would be appreciated.
Back in early July we snuck up to that London to see Stuart Lee and The Primevals play an upstairs room in a boozer in Kings Cross. Apparently Stuart Lee is a huge Primevals fan and he's never been able to see them live as their tour schedules never coincide so he booked them to play and he was their support act in his local while he tried out material for his upcoming tour. Tom The Guitar and I were friends before the band formed 40 years ago and I remember their first gigs; there was a poem of mine which Tom put a blues guitar riff to and Mickey their vocalist then wrote his own lyric over which is one of the best tracks on their debut album. That should win the prize for most tenuous link to a rock song ever. Anyhoo, sometimes you see a band who're still playing after 40 years and it's cringeworthy; other times you see a band who are doing something they love and have honed their craft to a razor sharp edge. :OK:That was worth going up to London for.

I can't wait to hear about FES's trip to Zurich to visit his investment manager. Or Gee's trip to the Marylebone Bedpan museum.

[jimbopip]

Champeeeons side for tonight's visit of the Craggy Islanders;

1. SUTHERLAND
2. Fraser
3. Schickerling
4. Oguntibeju (SRA)
5. GRAY
6. Ferrie
7. Venter
8. DEMPSEY

9. Afshar
10. HASTINGS
11. ROWE
12. Jordan
13. MCDOWALL (c)
14. DOBIE
15. McKay

Replacements:
STEWART, MCBETH, Richardson, WILLIAMSON, BROWN, Kennedy, WEIR, Munn (SRA), Roberts (SRA), BHATTI, Duncan (SRA), Mann, Salmon (SRA), Trotter, CANCELLIERE

Don't ask me why some players are in BLOCK CAPITALS, I copied this from another site and I'm fecced if I know.
However, that is very close to a first team set of backs.
I don't think we'll get pummelled a la Zebre last week.
The General is giving Oguntibeju a second run out so he probably sees something in him.
Lovely to see Rory Sutherland starting. He is a quality prop and will be a great addition if he can get back to his best form.

[RDW]

https://x.com/bencoles_/status/1832453587030376592?t=G-IAkIDhqagcoLlPYHHJNQ&s=08

Immediate impact from Hoggy - seen him run that support line many times before.

Will be interesting to see if his body stands up to a full Top 14 season!

[BigGee]

Just hope no-one suggests he comes back into the Scotland setup!

[RDW]

Just hope no-one suggests he comes back into the Scotland setup!

That would be a serious error of judgement from the SRU if it were somehow to happen!

[bsando]

That would certainly be a backwards step. His time representing Scotland is over.

[RDW]

BBC News - Rugby star Stuart Hogg charged with stalking
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyx5l7465lo

Ah FFS Hoggy

[jimbopip]

Fecc me! Without Finn to steady the ship he really has gone downhill.

[bsando]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cg4y6g5qze0o

Finally! He seems like a good pick. Some fresh thinking and energy at the right time. Excited to see how he gets on, especially if it means winning a Six Nations title and generating more revenue.

[Hazel Sapling]

It is good news on getting the CEO in place and on paper appears to be a good choice. We will see how able he is to clear the deadwood in the SRU and meet the challenges head on.

In other news, Ben Toolis retires at 32. Would have thought he had more in the tank if he wanted to keep playing but not followed how he has got on in Japan. Good lineout lock who made the most of his opportunities in Scotland. Best of luck to him

[RDW]

Can't believe Toolis is only 32! Seems like he's been around forever.

I was a huge Toolis fan and he was such a standout for Edinburgh. Raw size probably the main thing holding him back at intentional level. Sadly he'll always be known for that Italy game.

[bsando]

I was a big fan too, he suited Townsend’s original game plan. 100 caps for Edinburgh as well, hope he has something nice lined up now he’s retired. His Japan stint must have been a good way to bow out.

[RDW]

Edinburgh naming a first half and second half XV for their pre season friendly. All the international players back despite only started ore season a year ago. Darcy has returned which is fantastic to see.

They've only got one pre season game this year which seems a bit of a risk.

[George Carlin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cg4y6g5qze0o

Finally! He seems like a good pick. Some fresh thinking and energy at the right time. Excited to see how he gets on, especially if it means winning a Six Nations title and generating more revenue.

Yes, a proper CEO with a complete skillset by the looks of it - not just either a bean counter or a PR man.

If he had anything to do with appointing our new performance director (and he will have done) then I approve already.

[RDW]

Win for Edinburgh against Gloucester this evening. Great to see Darcy back fit and scoring tries!

[bsando]

Win for Edinburgh against Gloucester this evening. Great to see Darcy back fit and scoring tries!

I’ve read enough on Twitter to call it. It’s our year! 1872, top of the league finish and URC champs.

[RDW]

Win for Edinburgh against Gloucester this evening. Great to see Darcy back fit and scoring tries!

I’ve read enough on Twitter to call it. It’s our year! 1872, top of the league finish and URC champs.

Love your optimism!

On paper we have a really strong squad - those two full 15s were good teams - just need the coaching and gameplan to get the best out of them.

[jimbopip]

Win for Edinburgh against Gloucester this evening. Great to see Darcy back fit and scoring tries!

I’ve read enough on Twitter to call it. It’s our year! 1872, top of the league finish and URC champs.

Love your optimism!

On paper we have a really strong squad - those two full 15s were good teams - just need the coaching and gameplan to get the best out of them.

I love it

Makes The Annual Slaughter Of The Effeminates all the more enjoyable.

[bsando]

Jonny Gray getting game time for Bordeaux. He should be in the mix for the autumn internationals I’d imagine.

[RDW]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cvgl4zpklxgo

He's never been backed by SRU from the beginning really. He was very much a pawn onf try Dodson era - wonder if that's what's held him back with this.

[BigGee]

Another self made shambles by the SRU

He is right when he says it will be a long long time before we have another administator near the top of world rugby

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