The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the Tommy Bowe photo on the bar. That's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?

roddersm wrote:Mick I guarantee most of the Irish rugby team wouldn't be getting their free weight watchers. BMI is a lazy and scientifically inaccurate way to work out is someone is over weight or not.

Most people are not professional rugby players. Rugby players are under fulltime medical observation. I think weightwatchers will take the word of a medical doctor on what weight you should be.

There is an obvious lack of knowledge about the whole diet thing out there. Stag could pay €55 to go and get advice from his doctor (who will probably suggest that he goes to a dietician or something which will cost him another €50) or he could go to something like weightwatchers who will give him as much information as he will need to develop a healthy lifestyle.

Bear in mind that Stag was unaware of the basic importance of drinking plenty of water

Don't be saying that Paul Curren thing too loud Mick. I suspect your st Anne's people wouldn't be happy to hear that.

Paul Curren is such a nice bloke and done loads for the community growing up. gave many a training session to us

Sin the study above was on the general public. BMI is not an accurate way to measure if anyone is overweight, not just rugby players.

Doctors are wrong on this and it a lazy practice. There are other more accurate measures but BMI is cheap and easy. Unfortunately it is very inaccurate and leads to a lot of people misclassed as healthy or overweight.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Rodders, for most people, BMI is a good indicator as to where they should be. If your BMI is higher than it should be, go to your doctor and get yourself checked out. If you are overweight, he will probably send you to weightwatchers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18283284

No it isn't sin and you will find numerous scientific studies that well tell you so. The study above says it missed over 50% of people with excess fat. BMI does not measure body fat at all therefore cannot determine if someone is healthy/overweight or not. More often than not it is misleading. It simply projects a "healthy" weight for a height. However weight can vary due to any number of factors of which body fat is just one. Remember muscle is denser than fat so healthy people with above average muscle are more likely to be classed as overweight than someone who has excess body fat.

I had a full medical about 2 years ago (blood tests, bone density, heart, lungs, cholesterol. BP etc) and they gave me my BMI rating along with the rest of the stuff.

Most the BMI tests that are done now measure waist and neck as well as height & weight.

Rodders,

You say people shouldn't use Weightwatchers as it is just lining someone's pockets yet advise that people use the gym. That is also lining someone's pockets.

Would just like to say that I don't think the term over-weight should ever be used. It's a socially constructed term.

Unhealthy is what should be used. If the fact that someone has too much weight is the reason why someone is unhealthy then fair enough but when people use the term over-weight, it generally is a cosmetic term and got nothing to do with the healthy nature of someone.

MBTGOG wrote:Rodders,

You say people shouldn't use Weightwatchers as it is just lining someone's pockets yet advise that people use the gym. That is also lining someone's pockets.

Very true but a gym provides a service and facilities that are beneficial. I'm not convinced that weightwatchers provides anything constructive that can't be gained outside weightwatchers. I don't believe that weightwatchers actually benefits anyone in the long term either. Whereas going to the gym is a lifestyle change which will.

argh no Robson loses the first set on a tie break 6-7 against Sharapova, and that was avter she was 3-0 up.

In other British news, Baltacha is currently serving to say in the match. She one the first set but player a poor second one. Tis now (or was, need to check for an update!) 5-6 in the third with Bally to serve.

MBTGOG wrote:Would just like to say that I don't think the term over-weight should ever be used. It's a socially constructed term.

Very true. It's a nonsence term. There's no such thing as being "overweight". I used it for convenience but was wrong to do so.

roddersm wrote:Sin the study above was on the general public. BMI is not an accurate way to measure if anyone is overweight, not just rugby players.

Doctors are wrong on this and it a lazy practice. There are other more accurate measures but BMI is cheap and easy. Unfortunately it is very inaccurate and leads to a lot of people misclassed as healthy or overweight.

BMI isn't the be-all-and-end-all of health checks. If you're weight isn't healthy its going to show up elsewhere - cholesterol/blood pressure for one.

Lots of people who are a bit overweight are healthy anyway. BMI is just an indicator.

roddersm wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Rodders,

You say people shouldn't use Weightwatchers as it is just lining someone's pockets yet advise that people use the gym. That is also lining someone's pockets.

Very true but a gym provides a service and facilities that are beneficial. I'm not convinced that weightwatchers provides anything constructive that can't be gained outside weightwatchers. I don't believe that weightwatchers actually benefits anyone in the long term either. Whereas going to the gym is a lifestyle change which will.

I hate gyms. I run up and down mountains for my exercise (doen't cost anything). You don't need to lash out all that money to stay fit.

I agree Sin. I didn't say it's worthless but on its own it has no value and leads to many people being wrongly labled healthy or unhealthy.

Sin é wrote:
I hate gyms. I run up and down mountains for my exercise (doen't cost anything). You don't need to lash out all that money to stay fit.

So do I. But if used correctly they are positive for people. I don't use one either these days but the point is combining regular exercise and a healthy balanced diet is the key, not weightwatchers.

ah no Bally loses the third set 7-5, and she's started the match so well. Peng just too good in the end.

Robson was 0-2 down in the 2nd set but she's just broken Sharapova back to make it 1-2 and it's Robson next to serve.

roddersm wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Rodders,

You say people shouldn't use Weightwatchers as it is just lining someone's pockets yet advise that people use the gym. That is also lining someone's pockets.

Very true but a gym provides a service and facilities that are beneficial. I'm not convinced that weightwatchers provides anything constructive that can't be gained outside weightwatchers. I don't believe that weightwatchers actually benefits anyone in the long term either. Whereas going to the gym is a lifestyle change which will.

Wrong again Rodds. my GF lost 4 and a half stone by weight watchers which gave her great tips on eating healthy and educated about food etc. it offers alot more benefits to me as well. I think you need to accept some things work for some and some works for others. I couldn't go the gym apart from swimming. my interest has to be objective based (like football, golf, basketball) for me to enjoy the exercise. going the Gym doesn't interest me in that.

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Sin the study above was on the general public. BMI is not an accurate way to measure if anyone is overweight, not just rugby players.

Doctors are wrong on this and it a lazy practice. There are other more accurate measures but BMI is cheap and easy. Unfortunately it is very inaccurate and leads to a lot of people misclassed as healthy or overweight.

BMI isn't the be-all-and-end-all of health checks. If you're weight isn't healthy its going to show up elsewhere - cholesterol/blood pressure for one.

Lots of people who are a bit overweight are healthy anyway. BMI is just an indicator.

Best health check I ever had was in 2001 when the Doctor told me "Your cholesterol is too low - get it up" Really really enjoyed doing that....

rodders,

I think you're looking at this too much from a purely scientific point of view. Studying exercise psychology has informed me that doing these things in groups, like Weightwatchers, increases motivation and adherence to the programme.

I cycle to and from work which keeps me fit. But then if I had a car (and a licence) I'd probably drive to work and I wouldn't fancy getting home and relaxing only to have to go out to the gym. There's an artificiality about going to the gym and lifting heavy things just because they're heavy, not because I want them or I'm transporting them.

definitely doing things in a group helps. Used to go to a pilates class with 2-3 other girls but they moved to different parts of Cardiff so I ended up having to go to the classes myself, needless to say I don't go half as often anymore (if at all!).

Mickyt is right, different things work for different people. As it should be

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I hate gyms. I run up and down mountains for my exercise (doen't cost anything). You don't need to lash out all that money to stay fit.

So do I. But if used correctly they are positive for people. I don't use one either these days but the point is combining regular exercise and a healthy balanced diet is the key, not weightwatchers.

WW's offers people the motivation to eat healthy and lose weight. it offers motivation around getting more active for people that need that too.

I don't think there is a right or wrong here. it's just a different method. As I say my GF lost all that in a year. and has kept it off for 2 years. so her lifestyle has changed. and it cost her a lot less than a years GYM membership.

I think its wrong of you to suggest there is just way to lose weight. the concept of losing weight is the same fair enough but how people go about it is different. I don't see what's wrong with that.

In my course this year, they talked about the gym being a good place for socialising but I would say that it can have the opposite effect and people can become very anxious because of all the other people around.

Munsty, I would love to be anywhere that has you around me. I like you

Mick, you're GF that lost all that weight. Is that your current GF? If so, my jeysus!? She's a babe!

Ok one at a time!

mickyt no you're getting me wrong. I'm not saying weightwatchers aren't doing something positive. I'm saying you don't need to go to weightwatcher to get these things. Thats great about your GF but there are other ways to learn about nutrition. The education system should do more on this. There is a societal problem if people need to pay weightwatchers to learn about a healthy diet.

MTBGOG. No I'm not ignoring the psyhcological aspect. Good point on the motivation and adherehence though.

Luckless I'm just using the gym as an example. Any exercise or sport is great.

Rodders, agreed and accepted that you don't need to go to ww to get this. I accept this isn't the only source to get this from. but its the source that helps me.

Motivation is the key for me. this has it

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I hate gyms. I run up and down mountains for my exercise (doen't cost anything). You don't need to lash out all that money to stay fit.

So do I. But if used correctly they are positive for people. I don't use one either these days but the point is combining regular exercise and a healthy balanced diet is the key, not weightwatchers.

Same for weightwatchers. The issue though is that not everyone knows what a balanced diet is and weightwatchers helps educate people about that by providing the information. I have a friend who lost 3 stone with weightwatchers and she has kept it off because she has changed her lifestyle with the information she got at weightwatchers.

MBTGOG wrote:In my course this year, they talked about the gym being a good place for socialising but I would say that it can have the opposite effect and people can become very anxious because of all the other people around.

I'd agree with this Munsty. Good shout.

My dad always says he's not overweight, just underheight.

red_stag wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:In my course this year, they talked about the gym being a good place for socialising but I would say that it can have the opposite effect and people can become very anxious because of all the other people around.

I'd agree with this Munsty. Good shout.

I actually stopped my membership at a gym due to this and moved to the council gyms where you have less 'monkeys' and people looking at the weights your lifting, felt quite uncomfortable.

Mickyt thats great that you feel it works and thats all that matters. Good luck with it.

MBTGOG wrote:In my course this year, they talked about the gym being a good place for socialising but I would say that it can have the opposite effect and people can become very anxious because of all the other people around.

I'd say you're right.

Why thank you micky.

rodders,

You might not be ignoring it but you're not giving it due defference.

On the point about early education, you're right, but that is a massive topic that doesn't directly relate to what we're talking about here.

....I repeat I have nothing against anyone who uses weightwatchers!

I just think there is something wrong in a developed society in the 21st century, with such knowledge freely available, where people need to pay a private company like weightwatchers a fee to learn about having a healthy diet. That is critisism of society and not the individual.

I accept all the motivation and social aspects, I just feel that these too can be got elsewhere.

If people feel weightwatchers works for them then that is a positive thing and I am not belittling that.

Its the same for so many things like that Rodders. I used pay €3 for a supervised study session when I was in school. No tuition or anything just a load of people studying in a room supervised by a teacher who made sure the environment was quiet and students were motivated.

I could have done that in my livingroom alone and for free but thats what motivated me.

MBTGOG wrote:Why thank you micky.

rodders,

You might not be ignoring it but you're not giving it due defference.

I'll admit I wasn't considering it until you brought it up. I think you are spot on but I don't believe these motivating factors can only be got exclusively at weighwatchers, slimming world etc.

We must get that game of Fifa done and dusted soon as well. il root out those codes.

ah no my tennis woes continue. my man Roddick is now 2 sets to 0 down

Fair point stag.

Maybe a government run WW type organisation would be a good solution? Obviously I mean when the country isn't living fist to mouth!

Good shout on the gym lads, I wasn't a fan of it.

roddersm wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Why thank you micky.

rodders,

You might not be ignoring it but you're not giving it due defference.

I'll admit I wasn't considering it until you brought it up. I think you are spot on but I don't believe these motivating factors can only be got exclusively at weighwatchers, slimming world etc.

Agreed Rodders, they can be gotten through many other sources. and as you point out, if you have the right motivation, these can be free.

The advantage of things like Weightwatchers is that you don't want to be seen to fail. 'Fail' might be the wrong word, but if you were just dieting alone and put on a bit of weight, no one else would know and you could justify it to yourself, whereas if others are following your progress too, you'll be more motivated, which Micky T's been saying all along.

I am not fat, I am just big boned...


That said, I have never seen a fat skelathon

PS. I know I put this up yesterday but I liked it so much it's going up again.

The Mods here are too extreme.

Spoiler:

So he is - and 3-1 down in the third set! He played so well the other day too.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:The advantage of things like Weightwatchers is that you don't want to be seen to fail. 'Fail' might be the wrong word, but if you were just dieting alone and put on a bit of weight, no one else would know and you could justify it to yourself, whereas if others are following your progress too, you'll be more motivated, which Micky T's been saying all along.

ha it took you 3 lines to get across something that took me 15 posts

rodders,

I wasn't advocating them just mentioning the psychological advantages of those organisations.

And if they work for people and direct people to a healthy lifestyle, why argue against them?

MBTGOG wrote:rodders,

I wasn't advocating them just mentioning the psychological advantages of those organisations.

And if they work for people and direct people to a healthy lifestyle, why argue against them?

Exactly - far better for people to go to ww and learn about nutrition than spending hundreds & hundreds of pounds/euro on slimming drinks etc.

Before I switch off my laptop and leave for home (the best part of the working week!) I wanted to ask what people think of this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13895752

Is it right that this bloke escaped a prison sentence because his parents are religious and well-to-do? Shouldn't all criminals face the same punishment for the same crime?

I'll be on later to see whether or not this has gone down like a lead Zeppelin...

:run1:

MBTGOG wrote:rodders,

I wasn't advocating them just mentioning the psychological advantages of those organisations.

And if they work for people and direct people to a healthy lifestyle, why argue against them?

You were right to mention it.

If they work for people then that is a good thing. I just don't think weightwatchers or any private slimming organisation should have a monopoly on helping people live a healthier lifestyle. In my opinion they don't provide anything that isn't available elsewhere.

Mickyt clearly is clued up on the matter, it works for him and he chooses to go out of his own free will. I think this is great and am not arguing against this at all. Some people are not aware of the alternatives though and it is not a good thing, in my oppinion if some people feel weightwatchers is the only way to lose weight and live healthily, which it isn't.

Luck, I must admit, I kind of am happy to see that happen. I think he still needs to be punished but if the person has a lot to offer society, I feel if he went into prision, he may not come out any better off. he would come off worse if anything and may continue in his criminal activity.

Now I am not saying he isn't going to do that now as well but I think giving him a chance to turn his life around with out prision is not a bad thing