NEWS: Darcy out for next 6 weeks

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:31 pm

www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby

Darcy is out for the next six weeks after the ankle injury he picked up in the HCup final. He will miss the Scotland, Connacht and first French game. He will be back around 6 weeks time but we can't be sure if he will be fit and/or ready for matches against Franch and England in Dublin.

One would assume his place will be taken by Wallace, with possibly mcFadden getting a run out or even Bowe/Earls.

Ferris also didn't train and continues with rehab.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:34 pm

Pls, pls, pls play Paddy Wallace against Scotland Wink

by Cari Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:36 pm

Apparently he's having an operation on his ankle isn't he? Poor dab. Hope he recovers quickly and fully. Smile

I would've thought it would be McFadden or Paddy W. to replace him?

by Thomond Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:37 pm

Not great news hopefully Fergus is the man to step up.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:38 pm

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face - Kidney should have involved James Downey in the Ireland set-up this season.

McFadden should feature in the warm-ups. They need to know how he'll gel with the rest of the side.

I remain unconvinced that Wallace is an international centre.

by WillyGilly Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:38 pm

Paddy Wallace > Gordon D'Arcy anyway

Whistle

by **rodders** Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:38 pm

Paddy Wallace to the rescue!! guinness

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:40 pm

AS long as-
Not sure I understand why?

by **rodders** Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:47 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I remain unconvinced that Wallace is an international centre.

The word in NZ is that SBW wears Paddy Wallace pyjamas. Wallace can hold his own with the best of them.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:50 pm

People in Ireland are far too hard on Wallace for sure. Over the last 2 seasons in particular he has improved defensively and on his 1 on 1 attacking skills. His step and fend are remarably transformed.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:51 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:AS long as-
Not sure I understand why?

Pete, apologies - an in-joke for me Ulster friend, Notch, Paddy's long lost love-child Wink

by funnyExiledScot Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:59 pm

The other issue for me would be how Sexton and Wallace might play together. Both are more skillful and illusive than they are substantive, and if you've got Earls on the wing, then you start to lack options in terms of ball carrying and direct running. Puts alot of emphasis on BOD and Bowe to do the heavy lifting until the likes of SOB and Heaslip can hit the line. D'Arcy does a lot of straight running and ball carrying for Ireland, and I don't think Wallace can fill that void.

A Sexton/Wallace partnership could struggle against the more physical sides. I'm not saying either are poor tacklers, just that against the likes of SBW, Roberts, Jauzion, De Villiers et al, you may find yourselves shipping ground.

That said Wallace is a fine passer of the ball as is Sexton, so already you've got double the distribution abilities of Scotland.

by debaters1 Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:59 pm

I said to myself that having McFadden at 12 for the ML (now Rabo) Final would be a good thing for Ireland and the RWC squad. This news makes it even more important that he get game time there.

Paddy will get some game time there and if he plays well he goes but if he is anything less than solid in all aspects of 12 play, he cannot be taken, 3rd 10/kicker or not.

by **rodders** Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:01 pm

On a serious note this could be a big problem. In the past D'arcy has been an up and down player. He can be awesome when fit and on form (2004,2007) but has been mediocre at times when he's not in top shape like the 2005 Lions tour.

He's the kind of player who needs the warm up games to get his sharpness so if he's going to be out for the WC build up then this could really affect his form.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:05 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:The other issue for me would be how Sexton and Wallace might play together. Both are more skillful and illusive than they are substantive, and if you've got Earls on the wing, then you start to lack options in terms of ball carrying and direct running. Puts alot of emphasis on BOD and Bowe to do the heavy lifting until the likes of SOB and Heaslip can hit the line. D'Arcy does a lot of straight running and ball carrying for Ireland, and I don't think Wallace can fill that void.

A Sexton/Wallace partnership could struggle against the more physical sides. I'm not saying either are poor tacklers, just that against the likes of SBW, Roberts, Jauzion, De Villiers et al, you may find yourselves shipping ground.

That said Wallace is a fine passer of the ball as is Sexton, so already you've got double the distribution abilities of Scotland.

I agree to an extent. Firstly Trimble is an option on the wing. Secondly Wallace may not be great at taking the hit, staying up and pumping the legs but he is good at managing sneaky little half breaks and his offloafing ability is much greater than Darcy's. Finally Sexton runs the ball himself a lot so wouldn't worry about not having enough players to attack the line.

I agree that Darcy is the kinda guy who needs momentum at his back.

Is his RWC place in jeapordy???

by **rodders** Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:09 pm

I think his place has to be in jeapardy Pete. However this could really affect the dynamics of the squad. Wallace is a must now and McFaddens position has surely been strengthened.

Could one of the back 3, perhaps Trimble and/or Fitzgerald miss out now in order to bring McFadden?

by Mickado Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:11 pm

Sexton and McFadden are the new Larkham and Horan.

You heard it here first…

by Standulstermen Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:14 pm

Whatever about the squad dynamics it will open the door for one of Wallace or McFadden. We have actually never played Reddan, Sexton , Wallace and BOD in a test match from 9-13 as i recall. It would be nice to see it.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:14 pm

Hypothetically speaking if Darcy wasn't going I would consider Trimble a must in the squad. We need a back of some description who has pure power. Wallace is a great player IMO but he doesn't bring power and/or a crash up the middle option.

mcFadden probably would have to go to unless you wanted Bowe or Earls to be third choice centre. Having said that though when we assumed that Darcy and Wallace were going Bowe and earls were third choice centre (cover).

by debaters1 Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:23 pm

Earls has become 2nd or 3rd choice cover from 11 to 15. Legend taht he already is!

Seriously though, I think that even before this injury Trimble was in line to make the squad ahead of Fitzy. And McFadden was too also potentially ahead of Fitzy and/or P Wallace.

Interesting times ladies & gents, interesting times. Especially so as whatever we may think we know, we do NOT know the mind of Deccie.

by **rodders** Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:25 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Hypothetically speaking if Darcy wasn't going I would consider Trimble a must in the squad. We need a back of some description who has pure power. Wallace is a great player IMO but he doesn't bring power and/or a crash up the middle option.

mcFadden probably would have to go to unless you wanted Bowe or Earls to be third choice centre. Having said that though when we assumed that Darcy and Wallace were going Bowe and earls were third choice centre (cover).

Even if D'arcy goes there will be question marks over his fitness and form. Wallace is the only other player whos had any significant gametime at 12 in recent seasons so you could assume he's 2nd choice.

If D'arcy gets injured again out there then Wallace would be the the only other 12. McFadden covers both 12 and wing so perhaps he will go along with Earls, Bowe, Kearney, BOD and maybe Jones or Fitzgerald.

Wallace is also 3rd choice 10 so if we had an injury at 10 and 12 then we'd be in big trouble without another option at 12.

I think Trimble could be the guy to miss out unless Kidney feels he can play at centre.

by caoimhincentre Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:26 pm

I'm going to bring up something that has been done before. But it would be interesting to see BOD go to first centre and but earls at 2nd.

Do this for two warm up games and see how they get on. I realise that perhaps the time for experimenting is over but it might be worth a look.

by Standulstermen Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:28 pm

Leave Earls in the back three please!!!!!!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:29 pm

You'd have to take Trimble. Balance is key here, and without D'Arcy you'd need an option at centre with some straight running oomph. I'm sure BOD won't play every game.

The warm-up game against Scotland could be very interesting. Can you imagime a more contrasting centre battle than Paddy Wallace versus Sean Lamont!?

by Rava Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:32 pm

Wallace, as discussed on a million other threads, will probably be in the squad for 10 cover.

D'Arcy's absence is a tremendous opportunity to test McFadden at this level and it would be criminal if this was ignored.
The up side is that he could end up ahead of D'Arcy once we get to NZ.

by **rodders** Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:34 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:The warm-up game against Scotland could be very interesting. Can you imagime a more contrasting centre battle than Paddy Wallace versus Sean Lamont!?

I'm guessing you're alluding to the size difference. This kind of stuff always gets brought up when Wallace plays against big centres. Wallace has come of favourably against Banahan and Downey this season and rarely struggles againts big powerful players. He dumped Downey onto his backside in the HEC QF and has did well against Nonu in the past. I wouldn't be concerned in the slightest in seeing Wallace come up against Lamont.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:35 pm

Standulstermen wrote:Leave Earls in the back three please!!!!!!

+1

Earls is not an international class centre he is an international class winger.
I would put Bowe in before earls, for reasons I really don't want to get into but I have so many bad things to say about earls in the centre.

Yeah I think if Darcy did not go one would need

Trimble to bring balance to the backs

AND

Mcfadden to offer cover should Wallace or a fly half get injured.

by Rava Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:37 pm

[quote="funnyExiledScot"]You'd have to take Trimble. Balance is key here, and without D'Arcy you'd need an option at centre with some straight running oomph. I'm sure BOD won't play every game.

The warm-up game against Scotland could be very interesting. Can you imagime a more contrasting centre battle than Paddy Wallace versus Sean Lamont!?[/quote]

Both Bath and Saints tried the brawn v brain tactic in the HC. Both failed.

by caoimhincentre Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:38 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:Leave Earls in the back three please!!!!!!

+1

Earls is not an international class centre he is an international class winger.
I would put Bowe in before earls, for reasons I really don't want to get into but I have so many bad things to say about earls in the centre.

Yeah I think if Darcy did not go one would need

Trimble to bring balance to the backs

AND

Mcfadden to offer cover should Wallace or a fly half get injured.

I totally disagree. I think in years to come thats where he will end up. i suspect the only reason he has played on the wing for the latter half of munsters season is by the request of Mr. Kidney.

Although Mcfadden offers go forward ball his hands are terrible, so it would be interesting to see how BOD would get on there

by Standulstermen Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:40 pm

Earls has shown nothing this season with Munster in the centre. Cue the 6N and after a couple of average games he has suddenly come out and probably been irelands best player the latter part of the season. The difference is he moved to the wing. Keep him there!

by **rodders** Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:43 pm

caoimhincentre wrote:
I totally disagree. I think in years to come thats where he will end up. i suspect the only reason he has played on the wing for the latter half of munsters season is by the request of Mr. Kidney.

Although Mcfadden offers go forward ball his hands are terrible, so it would be
interesting to see how BOD would get on there

I'm with the others Earls is not and never will be a centre. I suspect he moved to the wing because he was so poor at centre this season and that it was Kidney who wanted him at centre in the 1st place. Personally I think full back is his best position but he can do a job on the wing too.

by caoimhincentre Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:45 pm

roddersm wrote:[quote="caoimhincentre
I totally disagree. I think in years to come thats where he will end up. i suspect the only reason he has played on the wing for the latter half of munsters season is by the request of Mr. Kidney.

Although Mcfadden offers go forward ball his hands are terrible, so it would be
interesting to see how BOD would get on there

I'm with the others Earls is not and never will be a centre. I suspect he moved to the wing because he was so poor at centre this season and that it was Kidney who wanted him at centre in the 1st place. Personally I think full back is his best position but he can do a job on the wing too.[/quote]

This is may very well be the case. But you have to look at the munster centre situation as a whole. IF earls was to play outside a consistant first centre would we see a huge improvement.

Possibly.

Off course i might be wrong like you have suggested

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:45 pm

Standulstermen wrote:Earls has shown nothing this season with Munster in the centre. Cue the 6N and after a couple of average games he has suddenly come out and probably been irelands best player the latter part of the season. The difference is he moved to the wing. Keep him there!

+1

Couldnt agree more.

Couldn't agree less with Caoimhe I'm afraid, McFadden's hands are pretty good.

Earls is our fastest player
Earls is by far our best finisher
Earls is a good fielder and above average kicker
Earls has poor positional defence in midfield (not tackling but who to tackle and where to be)
Earls has a poor pass (for a centre)
Earls has poor hands (in terms of speed) for a centre

He is our in form winger IMO. Great player. Great winger. IMO.

He already has his seat booked I'd say.

Need McFadden to provide cover if Darcy can't go.

by caoimhincentre Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:49 pm

I may be wrong.

At the end of the day it will matter little as D'arcy will be fit and will have 4 matchs to get sharp before we play Australia.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:51 pm

Well not entirely true by the looks of it he will have a max of 3. (France at home, England at home and USA at the RWC. Is that enough?

by Boyne Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:51 pm

"Earls has poor positional defence in midfield (not tackling but who to tackle and where to be)"

He had a howler against France in terms of defense. He kept backing off.

I hope Fergus is given a chance to make the jersey his own. Play Walace at 10 against the Ruskies if ye want but once Darcy (if fit) BOD and McF are in the 22, Wallace wont be playing center for Ireland.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:55 pm

roddersm wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:The warm-up game against Scotland could be very interesting. Can you imagime a more contrasting centre battle than Paddy Wallace versus Sean Lamont!?

I'm guessing you're alluding to the size difference. This kind of stuff always gets brought up when Wallace plays against big centres. Wallace has come of favourably against Banahan and Downey this season and rarely struggles againts big powerful players. He dumped Downey onto his backside in the HEC QF and has did well against Nonu in the past. I wouldn't be concerned in the slightest in seeing Wallace come up against Lamont.

I was referring to everything, including the huge skill differential. As I said before, Wallace is not a bad one on one tackler in my book. I was merely suggesting that it would be hard to contrive two more different 12's. One a converted winger relying solely on power and size, and the other a player relying on a side step and slick distribution skills.

by caoimhincentre Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:55 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Well not entirely true by the looks of it he will have a max of 3. (France at home, England at home and USA at the RWC. Is that enough?

Ah rudey poo you're right. thought they had another team before aus. really have a bad time of it in this article. Better off cutting my losses.

by debaters1 Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:56 pm

Because he was so poor at centre this season..... Right, well seeing as Munster had i think 12 different centre combinations, blaming him for being poor is a little harsh. And the be totally frank, Munster's problems in the backline began and finished at 12 this season.

It is a long time ago now, but the two occasions in the 2010 6N when Earls was forced to play 13 due to the injuries of others, Ireland played their most fluid attacking rugby and just as importantly, were not ripped apart, even without BOD on one of those ocassions.

He is an excellent winger, showed he can more than just suffice at FB (and at the very least is a country mile ahead of Fitzy there)

Should he be left at 11? Yes, but I would have no diffculty with him being moved to fill any position from 11-15 after 3 mins of the Aus match.

** touches all sorts of wood hoping to ensure such an eventuality does not occur **

by caoimhincentre Tue 28 Jun 2011, 3:58 pm

Debaters,

Wayhay some support

by funnyExiledScot Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:09 pm

On Earls, I'd say currently his best position is wing, but I'd actually suggest he gets more time at fullback in the future. I think he could well ultimately settle there, and could be a great counter-attacking fullback. He will of course have to win the shirt from Felix Jones next season at Munster, but it's still early days as to whether Jones is the real deal.

As for Earls at 13, not with Wallace at 12 and Sexton at 10, and I think with the likes of Spence, Cave, Marshall and McFadden coming through, Earls' international prospects would be better served in the back 3.

I don't think he'd be a disaster at 13, and you could certainly use him there against Russia, but I'd keep him away from the top international centres.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:10 pm

Personally I think Bowe is a much better centre option than earls. I do think Earls is a much better fullback option than Bowe. And they are both better everywhere than Fitzgerald.

by geoff998rugby Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:11 pm

Rava wrote: Both Bath and Saints tried the brawn v brain tactic in the HC. Both failed.

Exactly if Banahan and Downey couldn't succeed why should Lamont (I know we lost against the Saints but it wasn't at 9,10,12 and 13 where we were the better team - it was elsewhere)

For me both McFadden and Wallace must be given a game to show Deccie what they can do

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:16 pm

Also our priority should be Australia and Australia don't have a ball carrying 12. They have a hard running 13 but he is no Nonu or SBW or DeVilliers in terms of power.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:24 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Also our priority should be Australia and Australia don't have a ball carrying 12. They have a hard running 13 but he is no Nonu or SBW or DeVilliers in terms of power.

Hmmm, I'd have thought your priority should be to find a balanced backline. Yes, you have Australia in your group, but presumably you're looking to qualify from your group regardless I'd have thought.

I'm not saying Wallace wouldn't work at 12. I'm just saying that Kidney will need to alter a few things in the backs to accommodate him at 12, because he'll do a fundamentally different job to D'Arcy, whereas McFadden (and Downey) could offer a little more in the way of like for like.

by Sin é Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:28 pm

caoimhincentre wrote:Debaters,

Wayhay some support

+1
Sorry, I'm a bit late with the support.

The season that JdeVilliers was in Munster, Earls started on the wing with JDV & Mafi in the centre. It wasn't long before Earls had reclaimed the 13 shirt from JdeV and the lineup eventually was 12 De Villiers, 13 Earls and he played out the end of the season with a hamstring injury (he didn't go to the SH). He must not be too shabby at 13 to be able to shift JdeV to the bench.

He was injured again for the November AIs, and only really fit for the 6Ns, so his poor form at the start of last season was more down to injury than anything else. After the RWC, I expect him to revert back to being first choice 13 for Munster as Zebo looks as if he is going to be a decent winger (he has got pace anyway).

In the event of D'Arcy not being fit, I would expect a BOD + Earls midfield (with Andrew Trimble / Tommy Bowe on the wings & McFadden on the bench). The fullbacks will be either Kearney or Jones.I think Paddy Wallace will make the world cup, but I don't see him making the 22 of the game against either Italy or Australia, but will probably start against some of the lesser nations (probably Russia).

I can't see McFadden starting a game at centre (isn't he primarily a 13 anyway - was for the Churchill Cup as far as I remember) as he has little or no experience of playing there at either Heineken Cup or International level. After BOD, Earls is by far Ireland most experienced centre. He may have 12 on his back, but he will be play 13.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:35 pm

Sin é wrote:
caoimhincentre wrote:Debaters,

Wayhay some support

+1
Sorry, I'm a bit late with the support.

The season that JdeVilliers was in Munster, Earls started on the wing with JDV & Mafi in the centre. It wasn't long before Earls had reclaimed the 13 shirt from JdeV and the lineup eventually was 12 De Villiers, 13 Earls and he played out the end of the season with a hamstring injury (he didn't go to the SH). He must not be too shabby at 13 to be able to shift JdeV to the bench.

He was injured again for the November AIs, and only really fit for the 6Ns, so his poor form at the start of last season was more down to injury than anything else. After the RWC, I expect him to revert back to being first choice 13 for Munster as Zebo looks as if he is going to be a decent winger (he has got pace anyway).

In the event of D'Arcy not being fit, I would expect a BOD + Earls midfield (with Andrew Trimble / Tommy Bowe on the wings & McFadden on the bench). The fullbacks will be either Kearney or Jones.I think Paddy Wallace will make the world cup, but I don't see him making the 22 of the game against either Italy or Australia, but will probably start against some of the lesser nations (probably Russia).

I can't see McFadden starting a game at centre (isn't he primarily a 13 anyway - was for the Churchill Cup as far as I remember) as he has little or no experience of playing there at either Heineken Cup or International level. After BOD, Earls is by far Ireland most experienced centre. He may have 12 on his back, but he will be play 13.

Oh Sin you and i are just aren't seeing eye to eye today.

1) JdeV wasn't really that good at Munster.
2) Yeah Zebo is gonna be awesome may be Howletts replacement though. Sorry don't know his age.
3) BOD and Wallace are a more experienced combo than Earls and BOD. Plus Wallace is an out and out centre where as earls is something of a utility back.
4) Can't see McFadden starting a big game either. He is a 12. Can play 13. Can play wing. Has some experience in the centre at HCup level but you're right mostly wing.

Sorry I'll try leave you alone for the rest of the day I promise

by Gibson Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:40 pm

Exile,
Downey is not even in the extended training squad. Not an option. Its time for McFadden, Deccie. Show him the faith you showed Sexton and reap the rewards. I'd put money on him to be a resounding success. Then, let Darcy fight for his place back.

by asoreleftshoulder Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:41 pm

[quote="Sin é"]

caoimhincentre wrote:Debaters,

I expect him to revert back to being first choice 13 for Munster as Zebo looks as if he is going to be a decent winger (he has got pace anyway)

I really hope this doesn't happen,I rate Earls highly and think he can do a decent job at centre but really think he can become a truly top class winger.His finishing ability is only bettered by Bowe in the Irish squad and his pace is fantastic.I'd like to see him nail down the Munster and Ireland 11 shirt,Munster have had a really exciting back 3 towards the end of this season and Earls has been a huge part of that.

by debaters1 Tue 28 Jun 2011, 4:42 pm

Sin e,

Indeed, BOD will always be '13' on a teamsheet, but as I said, when D'Arcy went of in the 2010 6N, BOD went to 12 and Earls to 13. One thing that we have to be cognisant of is the fact that whomever replaces BOD at 13, we have to allow him to not be as good without writing him off etc.

The one problem with having a great player stick around for so long is that replacement ends up not so much in a long shadow as a deep trench.

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