606v2 picks the best Irish RWC 22: STARTING SCRUMHALF

First topic message reminder :


Edit, all, I'm going to be leaving this poll here for a day or so before moving it back into the RWC selection subsection



First of all wanted to say thanks to everyone who has contributed over the past few days the debates have been pretty good for the most part. We have had nearly 1000 votes and nearly 600 comments and a lot of people have contributed to what has been a really good couple of days debating. It's been great to hear so many opinions (even ones I have disagreed with) and to get a feel for what everyone thinks of certain players. There were a number of very tight calls between Hayes and Buckley, O'Leary and Murray and McFadden and Fitzgerald so it's been interesting to see people's opinions being tested against those of others.

In this series gets the same great reaction and that we hear some more great debates that were started or were not touched on in the previous series. Calls like; should Jennings be on the bench, the backrow selections, the fullback selection, should Stringer be selected on the bench are all going to be very interesting and am looking forward to hearing everyones opinions.


The idea of this series is to establish the first choice front row, second row, backrow, halfbacks, centres, back3, forwards subs and backs subs. These debates I may leave a little longer than the previous series as more can be said about them. The idea is to chose the best 22 that we have be it on form, experience, partnerships, balance, fitness whatever.

Perhaps think of this as the team you want to line out against Australia

IN THE SERIES PLEASE LOOK AT THE PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN/YOU THINK WILL BE PICKED LATER IN THE SERIES, AS TO CREATE BALANCE IN THE TEAM
eg: Playing Flannery would mean needing a work horse somewhere else in the pack as Best does a lot of the donkey work.

IF A PLAYER IS IN OUR SQUAD PLEASE TAKE FOR GRANTED THAT THEY CAME THROUGH THE WARM UPS AND THUS HAVE SOME FORM (IF NOT A LOT) AND ARE SOMEWHAT FIT. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION.

We are going to use the squad that we (the 606v2 community) have chosen.

Healy, Ross, Buckley, Court
Best, Cronin, Flannery
O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Cullen, Ryan
Ferris, O'Brien, Wallace, Jennings, Heaslip
Reddan, Stringer, O'Leary*
Sexton, O'Gara
O'Driscoll, Darcy, Wallace
Bowe, Earls, Trimble, Kearney, Jones, McFadden

*O'Leary just beat Murray yesterday evening in the poll by one vote.

So far the team is
Healy-Best-Ross
O'Connell-O'Callaghan
Ferris-Heaslip-Wallace

This is going to be a toughie a lot of good options here lads! Keep it clean!

Scrumhalves:

REDDAN: Showed good form since December and seems to be one of the best rounded scrumhalves we have in our 30 man squad. His passing is quick enough and he doesn't hang around the ruck for too long. Can be poor if his pack are going backwards but can also lead from the front and be instrumental in creating quick attacking ball by taking the initative. Average box kick, average defender, big game experience. Good relationship with Heaslip, SOB and Sexton.
STRINGER: Vastly experienced player. Has one of the best passes off the deck in the world regarding pace and accuracy. He also gets the ball our of the ruck very quickly and is great at marshalling his pack. Is very unbalanced as he rarely makes a break, has poor defence and his box kicking is average. Can be an excellent impact sub. Great relationship with O'Gara.
O'LEARY: Exceptionally physical scrumhalf with good defence and is also quick. Versatile in that he can at a push play wing and centre. He is a poor passer for an international scrumhalf. His passing is slow and sometimes very inaccurate. He can take a long time getting the ball away from the ruck also. His decision making can be poor also be it how long it takes him to make a decision and he takes the wrong option more than other international scrumhalves. Average-poor box kicker.

Remember...

a) think of balance of the whole team
b) assume if they are in the squad they have some form and some fitness (not necessarily full fitness or good form)
c) play nice and no provincial stuff, attack the arguement not the person making it
d) to place your votes
e) back up your points with examples, clips etc if possible

Cheers
Pete

Its probably beginning to look like I actually rate tol as a scrumhalf so I'd just like to make it clear that I think at his best he is a mediocre scrumhalf at best. I just think some people are being overly harsh on him.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
PS - Earls (5 times) kicked the ball more than Reddan (3) did in the game against England.

I should hope so, he was the full back. What has this got to do with anything?

That reinforces again how Reddan helped execute a superb game plan. 3 kicks that were all effective and the rest of the time keeping the ball in hand. You can ask no more of a scrum half and I hope O'leary was watching as he might have learnt a few things.

Val I'm sorry pal but the slow ball and struggling to get over the gainline was not a problem when Reddan was playing. It is a problem directly caused by O'leary. Our back row is very good at producing quick ball but unfortunately O'Leary is even better at slowing it down.

I agree. TOL does literally destroy quick ball a lot of the time he is like a ball and chain to the rest of our backline.

Sin- "Three box kicks from Reddan wasn't what kept Foden & Ashton back, as Rodders claims. Earls runs & his little chips had more to do with that."
How?! What are you talking about?!

1) Rodders claimed that Reddan's kicking kept the England backs 'honest' because in Rodders mind Reddan's boot was such a threat that both Foden and Ashton stayed back in their own 22 in case Reddan kicked the ball and Bowe would run onto it and score (a la O'Gara style )

Sin é wrote:
Three box kicks from Reddan wasn't what kept Foden & Ashton back, as Rodders claims. Earls runs & his little chips had more to do with that.

I give up. Have a good afternoon folks .

Val maybe I'm exaggerating TOL's deficiencies a little to make my point but I'm certainly not imagining them or the impact they have on the way we play.

I believe if he can keep his form up, Reddan is a much better option right now for most games. Hopefully Murray will step up to the plate soon though.

Val-

That's fair enough buddy,everyone is allowed to have their opinion I guess a lot of us on here are just very passionate about these matters.

Sin é wrote:
1) Rodders claimed that Reddan's kicking kept the England backs 'honest' because in Rodders mind Reddan's boot was such a threat that both Foden and Ashton stayed back in their own 22 in case Reddan kicked the ball and Bowe would run onto it and score (a la O'Gara style )

I think sin that is a very impressive use of artistic licence....

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Three box kicks from Reddan wasn't what kept Foden & Ashton back, as Rodders claims. Earls runs & his little chips had more to do with that.

I give up. Have a good afternoon folks .

Val maybe I'm exaggerating TOL's deficiencies a little to make my point but I'm certainly not imagining them or the impact they have on the way we play.

I believe if he can keep his form up, Reddan is a much better option right now for most games. Hopefully Murray will step up to the plate soon though.

I completely agree with that but hes not really international class, hopefully we'll have a murray-sexton axis by the opening game of the six nations.
I think you are exaggerating a bit but that probably the easiest way to get a point across, I'm just playing devils advocate.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
1) Rodders claimed that Reddan's kicking kept the England backs 'honest' because in Rodders mind Reddan's boot was such a threat that both Foden and Ashton stayed back in their own 22 in case Reddan kicked the ball and Bowe would run onto it and score (a la O'Gara style )

I think sin that is a very impressive use of artistic licence....

Your exact words Rodders"

"Well he must have ignored that advice when he put in those perfectly executed box kicks against England which allowed Bowe and Trimble to put the England back 3 under so much pressure."

Seems to me you rate his box kicking from that.

Reddan is the obvious choice. I think Sin E is the only person really arguing that TOL is our best 9.
But in fairness to you Sin everybody thought the Earth was the centre of the universe until Nicolaus Copernicus came along! So keep the faith man and as a famous Irish artist recently said "Feck the haters" (Amanda Brunker)
Peace.

I would really worry about the speed of service from the ruck and length of time he takes to make decisions if we played O'Leary against Australia.

I think against Australia we will have to be a hell of a lot quicker as a team than we would with O'Leary at 9.

I think we should just give up on this set of scrum halfs and throw the bull in there for the wc

No good scrumhalves? Lots of good backrowers?

Nick Mallett has the answer;

6. Stephen Ferris
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Sean O'Brien

You know it makes sense!

Feagh McHugh wrote:Reddan is the obvious choice. I think Sin E is the only person really arguing that TOL is our best 9.
But in fairness to you Sin everybody thought the Earth was the centre of the universe until Nicolaus Copernicus came along! So keep the faith man and as a famous Irish artist recently said "Feck the haters" (Amanda Brunker)
Peace.

I've never argued that O'Leary is our best 9. (They all have their limitiations). Murray is way better than Reddan though (have a look at the Magners Final) - but just a bit short on experience.

What I have argued is that O'Leary's superior defence & his experience will be more important against Australia. If people expect Rob Kearney to come back fully fit and ready to start at full back, I see no reason why something similar should happen to O'Leary who is also coming back from injury.

PS - no need to decend into throwing personal insults to win your arguement.

Sin é wrote:
What I have argued is that O'Leary's superior defence & his experience will be more important against Australia.

Sin how does TOL have superior experience when Reddan has more caps??

If it makes you feel any better though sin, I don't think Kearney should play either and there should be a young munsterman at the back...

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
What I have argued is that O'Leary's superior defence & his experience will be more important against Australia.

Sin how does TOL have superior experience when Reddan has more caps??

If it makes you feel any better though sin, I don't think Kearney should play either and there should be a young munsterman at the back...

eh, Superior experience to Murray. If Murray had O'Leary level of experience he would be starting.

In fact, if Murray started one game at international level, he would be ahead of Reddan.

Rodders haven't been on here earlier. The reason that I have touted O'Leary ahead of Reddan against Australia and France is that I think we are not going to outpace the Aussie attack no matter who we pick. A structured first phase attack and a solid, physical defense is our best means of beating them IMO and I'd have to pick O'Leary. The French have extremely poor fringe defense that I think O'Leary can better exploit.

There wasnt a personal insult there Sin just a bit of teasing.

If TOL gets game time and does the business I will be only too delighted for Ireland and him. But at this minute Reddan is the sensible choice.
But Id rather see game time invested in Murray in the warm ups to be honest.

red_stag wrote:Rodders haven't been on here earlier. The reason that I have touted O'Leary ahead of Reddan against Australia and France is that I think we are not going to outpace the Aussie attack no matter who we pick. A structured first phase attack and a solid, physical defense is our best means of beating them IMO and I'd have to pick O'Leary. The French have extremely poor fringe defense that I think O'Leary can better exploit.

Fair enough stag but think about it. Realistically we are no going to score of every 1st phase ball. Also the Australians are not going to run straight at us but into space, if you think O'leary's defence is an andidote to the Australian attack then you are wrong. I would back Cooper, genia, Ione etc. to beat TOL as easily as Reddan (who actually has favourable tackle stats in 6N).

The only way we will compete against the australians is to retain posession. We need to run hard up the 10 channel using our ball carriers and when the gain line is breached and the defence is disorganised we need to recycle the ball quickly and either carry again or get it into sexton hands. Reddan is the only guy comfortable playing this style of rugby. The Australians don't like physicality so the more we can get our back row running hard and direct at them the more chace we have. This means playing quick ball through multiple phases not 1 phase attacks followed 10 phases of pick and go's, followed by a scrum or box kick.

If TOL plays I see the same problems we had against France. The balls to O'Brien will be slower, deeper and telegraphed meaning the Australian defence will be able to line him up and meet him on the gainline. Wallace and Heaslip, rather than running wide channels, will then have to come in to help out with the donkey work. Sexton (and in turn the other backs) will have to stand deeper and attack from behind the gainline which will put us under pressure of making errors and conceding turnovers either at the ruck, by knocking on or by kicking away aimlessly.

If we want to win this game it is vital that we pick Reddan ahead of TOL.

It isn't VITAL we pick Reddan. We have a group of average scrum halves, Reddan being one of them. I consider Reddan to currently be the best of them but under the right conditions I think O'Leary is a better pick.

As I've said already I think you grossly exagerate O'Learys deficiecies. And what was the problem against France. We ran in 3 tries with O'Leary on the pitch despite all our backline weaknesses. We did however concede EIGHTEEN points from penalties. Thats what the problem against France was. I know your not gonna agree but against France or Australia give me O'Leary.

This poll looks clear cut.

Maybe it should be moved back to the fantasy section, little bit miffed as to why the Irish team takes precedence over all the other home nations?

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Maybe it should be moved back to the fantasy section, little bit miffed as to why the Irish team takes precedence over all the other home nations?

How come this got moved out in first place?

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:Rodders haven't been on here earlier. The reason that I have touted O'Leary ahead of Reddan against Australia and France is that I think we are not going to outpace the Aussie attack no matter who we pick. A structured first phase attack and a solid, physical defense is our best means of beating them IMO and I'd have to pick O'Leary. The French have extremely poor fringe defense that I think O'Leary can better exploit.

Fair enough stag but think about it. Realistically we are no going to score of every 1st phase ball. Also the Australians are not going to run straight at us but into space, if you think O'leary's defence is an andidote to the Australian attack then you are wrong. I would back Cooper, genia, Ione etc. to beat TOL as easily as Reddan (who actually has favourable tackle stats in 6N).

The only way we will compete against the australians is to retain posession. We need to run hard up the 10 channel using our ball carriers and when the gain line is breached and the defence is disorganised we need to recycle the ball quickly and either carry again or get it into sexton hands. Reddan is the only guy comfortable playing this style of rugby. The Australians don't like physicality so the more we can get our back row running hard and direct at them the more chace we have. This means playing quick ball through multiple phases not 1 phase attacks followed 10 phases of pick and go's, followed by a scrum or box kick.

If TOL plays I see the same problems we had against France. The balls to O'Brien will be slower, deeper and telegraphed meaning the Australian defence will be able to line him up and meet him on the gainline. Wallace and Heaslip, rather than running wide channels, will then have to come in to help out with the donkey work. Sexton (and in turn the other backs) will have to stand deeper and attack from behind the gainline which will put us under pressure of making errors and conceding turnovers either at the ruck, by knocking on or by kicking away aimlessly.

If we want to win this game it is vital that we pick Reddan ahead of TOL.

Couldn't agree more to be honest. Great post.

Stag- I think we are willing to admit O'Leary has far superior physical attributes to reddan and does defend well, however defending is quite far down the list in terms of prioritising the scrumhalf's roles.

A scrumhalf who can pass well enough or a scrumhalf who can tackle well enough. Which is a scrumhalf going to be doing more often?
I think if we play TOL we will lose and lose quite badly.

O'Learys running game, however, is a really potent weapon. And he should be in the 22 because we may need that.

Stag the problem I think is that you and others are looking at Reddan and O'leary, as well as the other scrum halves, in isolation from the team. In this sense O'Leary compares favourably i.e. he's bigger, stronger and faster, his passing and kicking when the context is removed is not much worse.

However the reality is that the 9 can't be viewed in isolation of the team as this is the lynch pin that links the backs and forwards together and in a sense dictates how we play more than the 10.

Our main strengths are our back row and backline and our two best and key players are Heaslip and Sexton. Everything we do now revolves around these guys and it is vital that the player who links them together is on the same wave length.

TOL is not. He takes too long to decide what is going on and too often takes the wrong option. Sexton is not in synch with him either and because of TOL's delayed delivery everyone has to stand deeper meaning Sexton cannot play his natural game.

This was the problem against France. We conceded penalties because we didn't have the ball. We didn't have the ball because we were under pressure because of TOL's service and we either ran ourselves into trouble, KO'd or were forced to kick the ball away. This was all directly or indirectly down to the slow ball provided by TOL. The set piece was a big problem in that game too but I'm convinced if Reddan had of played we would have won that game.

Notch wrote:O'Learys running game, however, is a really potent weapon. And he should be in the 22 because we may need that.

I've already acknowledged that Notch. If Murray is deemed too inexperienced then I would have TOL on the bench because he offers a different style of play. However if we want to continue to play to our strengths and persue a game which is effective under the current laws then we need to start with Reddan. Occaisionaly we'll need to roll up our sleaves and tighten things up, say in wet conditions like the SA game in the Autumn, and TOL will be useful but other than that he does not have the skill set we want/need.

Sin é wrote:

I've never argued that O'Leary is our best 9. (They all have their limitiations). Murray is way better than Reddan though (have a look at the Magners Final) - but just a bit short on experience.

I would be more inclined to use how a player does in the heineken cup rather then the magners league its a step or two up, especially the 1/4s 1/2s and final
And redden well out performed any irish scrum half in that

Kiwi-
I was wondering if you could put up the backrow one instead?? didn't get much coverage either? if people would prefer me to do a new one though no problem.

Thanks again

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Maybe it should be moved back to the fantasy section, little bit miffed as to why the Irish team takes precedence over all the other home nations?

Because we're the highest ranked by the IRB, why else....

roddersm wrote:I'm convinced if Reddan had of played we would have won that game.

I'm not. Look I won't care if Reddan gets picked. Just giving my own two cents. Neither are great players and I've seen both do well and both do badly.

O'Leary certainly isn't a traditional scrumhalf but in the right circumstances is a better option. Similarly that Cian Healy is better in the loose than at scrummaging or how there are calls for O'Brien at 7 rather than a player who does more at breakdown.

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:I'm convinced if Reddan had of played we would have won that game.

I'm not. Look I won't care if Reddan gets picked. Just giving my own two cents. Neither are great players and I've seen both do well and both do badly.

O'Leary certainly isn't a traditional scrumhalf but in the right circumstances is a better option. Similarly that Cian Healy is better in the loose than at scrummaging or how there are calls for O'Brien at 7 rather than a player who does more at breakdown.

IMO the balance shift between skill set and physical attributes is very different in those positions.

Scrummaging and work in the loose are relatively close together in terms of importance for a prop, although scrummaging is more important.

Passing and good service is far, far more important than defence for a scrumhalf.

[quote="pete (buachaill on eirne)"]

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:I'm convinced if Reddan had of played we would have won that game.

Passing and good service is far, far more important than defence for a scrumhalf.

Yes hence the reason I consider Reddan first choice. However in certain situations I would have O'Leary. Reddans service isn't all that good. Better than O'Leary yes but he's hot and cold IMO. Nowhere near undroppable.

"Nowhere near undroppable"

+1

Reddan has been mostly hot for the last while IMO. I agree that on a wet day having TOL may be a good move the same way I'd say that about Kearney.

IMO their is no substitute for quick ball. Quick ball wins games.

PS: THE BACKROW DEBATE IS NOW UP ON THE MAIN PAGE PROPERLY NO DOUBT SOMEONE WILL COME ALONG AND SPARK SOMETHING OFF SO KEEP AN EYE OUT.

If Reddan gave us quick ball I'd agree. But he doesn't. He gives us quicker ball which makes him a better option. But not quick enough to make him untouchable. There is a subsitute for everything in rugby. Its a thinking mans game.

red_stag wrote:If Reddan gave us quick ball I'd agree. But he doesn't. He gives us quicker ball which makes him a better option. But not quick enough to make him untouchable. There is a subsitute for everything in rugby. Its a thinking mans game.

Yes I agree with that. The exception the rule is Stringer, he'd provide quick ball but wouldn't threaten to make a break and therefor the fringe defence would feel free to drift towards our 10 and cut out space.

red_stag wrote:Its a thinking mans game.

Exactly why O'Leary shouldn't start.

Who said Reddan was undroppable? I'd drop him for Murray in a flash. However the fact is he's the only scrum half we have who is able to facilitate a fast paced attacking game plan.

If TOL was the Leinster scrum half you can be pretty sure that they wouldn't be European champions right now.

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:Its a thinking mans game.

Exactly why O'Leary shouldn't start.

Who said Reddan was undroppable? I'd drop him for Murray in a flash. However the fact is he's the only scrum half we have who is able to facilitate a fast paced attacking game plan.

If TOL was the Leinster scrum half you can be pretty sure that they wouldn't be European champions right now.

+1

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:Its a thinking mans game.

Exactly why O'Leary shouldn't start.

Who said Reddan was undroppable? I'd drop him for Murray in a flash. However the fact is he's the only scrum half we have who is able to facilitate a fast paced attacking game plan.

If TOL was the Leinster scrum half you can be pretty sure that they wouldn't be European champions right now.

-1

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:Its a thinking mans game.

Exactly why O'Leary shouldn't start.

Who said Reddan was undroppable? I'd drop him for Murray in a flash. However the fact is he's the only scrum half we have who is able to facilitate a fast paced attacking game plan.

If TOL was the Leinster scrum half you can be pretty sure that they wouldn't be European champions right now.

-1

really stag?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:Its a thinking mans game.

Exactly why O'Leary shouldn't start.

Who said Reddan was undroppable? I'd drop him for Murray in a flash. However the fact is he's the only scrum half we have who is able to facilitate a fast paced attacking game plan.

If TOL was the Leinster scrum half you can be pretty sure that they wouldn't be European champions right now.

-1

really stag?

No actually. All this time I secretly think O'Leary is the ultimate waste of space and I've just been getting a rise

I don't agree. Murray has massive potential but I need to see him do it at a higher level before I can agree I'd start him for Ireland. As for O'Leary playing for Leinster its a possibility but who's to say what could happen. I've given my opinions on Reddan and O'Leary - neither is great both offer something different. Against unknown opposition I'd be saying Reddan.

I need to see Murray at a higher level before I'd talk him up so much.

Ok so thats + 1 from Pete and -1 from stag (with a bit of mocking laughter thrown in). That amounts to a net result of 0 agreement for my ramblings so I think I'll call it day on this one and go and wind up Sin and Boyne about the Irish backrow.....

The mocking laughter was actually an attempt at easing the situation.

BTW that backrow thread nonsense is the reason I can't support Ireland more than Munster. People like Sin and Boyne who always make the atmosphere that your never behind the team but behind your own players more.

red_stag wrote:The mocking laughter was actually an attempt at easing the situation.

BTW that backrow thread nonsense is the reason I can't support Ireland more than Munster. People like Sin and Boyne who always make the atmosphere that your never behind the team but behind your own players more.

Stag don't take it too serious. Some people will never be able to put their provincial loyalties aside but you just have to take it with a pinch of salt. Sometimes I think I've been watching totally different matches to some people but hey ho everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if we all agreed it would be no craic

Rodders, disagreement and banter is fine but I hate all the provincial nonsense. I was booed in Dublin while trying to watch Munster v Ospreys in my Munster jersey. The Leinster fans I was with were mortified. I then pulled off my Munster shirt after game and was more than happy to go cheer on Leinster v Clermont. Notch had the same thing when he went to Ulster v Leinster this year. Some fella tried to start something with him and I've heard things from Munster fans at inter-pro games that just makes me dispair.

Theres a line with banter and some people take it too far. Its grand with opposition but when its your own fans its hard get behind team.

red_stag wrote:The mocking laughter was actually an attempt at easing the situation.

BTW that backrow thread nonsense is the reason I can't support Ireland more than Munster. People like Sin and Boyne who always make the atmosphere that your never behind the team but behind your own players more.

Don't be blaming me for the 'bad atmosphere' on that thread. I ain't going to give in to a bully like Boyne who promotes his support for Leinster/Leinster players by abusing everyone else who doesn't go along with his view on the world. The amount of abuse I got for posting that I believe that David Wallace is a better 7 than Sean O'Brien is unbelievable.

You can be critical enough yourself, so I wouldn't be claiming the high moral ground on this one if I were you.

Sin, I'm only calling it as I see it. Maybe I'm to blame for it who knows but its just how I feel. Hope you don't take too much offense to it pal.

Stag thats a disgrace and there's no excuse for any of that. Anyone that behaves like that is obviously not a genuine rugby fan full stop.

I don't think there's any of that on here although there is some nonsence spoken at times. Some of it is outragious it's hard to take seriously!

roddersm wrote:I don't think there's any of that on here although there is some nonsence spoken at times. Some of it is outragious it's hard to take seriously!

No but of course there are the usual suspects on every thread bringing the Munster v Leinster thing up on a near daily basis. Often it starts as banter but can descend into slagging matches like Boynes outburst about Munster fans earlier.

red_stag wrote:Rodders, disagreement and banter is fine but I hate all the provincial nonsense. I was booed in Dublin while trying to watch Munster v Ospreys in my Munster jersey. The Leinster fans I was with were mortified. I then pulled off my Munster shirt after game and was more than happy to go cheer on Leinster v Clermont. Notch had the same thing when he went to Ulster v Leinster this year. Some fella tried to start something with him and I've heard things from Munster fans at inter-pro games that just makes me dispair.

Theres a line with banter and some people take it too far. Its grand with opposition but when its your own fans its hard get behind team.

Why did you bother taking off your jersey to watch a leinster match?

stag if i wore my leinster jersey to a munster match i would expect a bit of ribbing.
I also find that many leinster fans had to put up with years of slagging and abuse at the hands of munster fans when they were winning but when the tables turned it was seen as too much. Were you at the lansdown 1/4 final cause the abuse of leinster fans after that is why alot of them will give munster fans stick


Sin é you are so anti leinster that it stirs alot of leinster people up.

I asked you what your ireland team would be yesterday full expecting you to have no leinster players in it, now thankfully you are not that bad cause you do have some knowledge but some of the things you come out with are just outright wums

I wasn't gonna wear my Munster jersey to a Leinster game. I wanted Leinster to win it was against a French opposition. It would just be provocative to those around me to be sat there dressed in Red in a Leisnter HEC game.