Post MATCH discussion THREAD - Wales vs France

by maestegmafia Wed 12 Oct 2011, 12:59 am

First topic message reminder :

Well played France a deserved winner... great effort by Wales but silly mistakes cost us a better result...

Good luck to Australia and New Zealand tomorrow

by valjester Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:46 am

Gatts wrote:Look everyone, the red is fine but in sending him off - clerc is fine - he might as well have blown the final whislte and given the game to france. yellow would have been appropriate and a citing if necessary

If he got cited and then banned, after rolland had given a yellow, it would mean that rolland had got it wrong. The referees have been given strict guidelines on this and rolland has applied them correctly. Its not his job to ensure that the match is a good contest, he has to ref it according to the laws of the game and make sure he enforces the laws that have been put in place to protect players. There is a reason why the IRB are trying to get rid of this tackle from the game, clerc landed on his neck and could have been seriously injured.

by dublin_dave Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:46 am

Dreadful execution there. Could have used that dg. Wales well in this though.

by maestegmafia Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:46 am

7 man scrum now in defence

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:47 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Thomond wrote:Gatts, it's not the refs job to make the game a spectacle. If it was a red card offence, then he should have given a red. You suffer the consequences of your decisions. Wales are still well in this.
The ref is closer to the action, he had a good view of it...

THis is what we have... now lets deal with it... no excuses, we are not an excuses team...

C'Mon Wales

Spot on maes. The team are not giving up or looking for excuses out there.

COME ON WALES!!!

by **rodders** Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:47 am

Wales look good with the ball but their problem now is getting quick ball and avoiding being turned over. They're going to have to play for territory and hope they can pick up the odd three points.

by Thomond Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:47 am

I don't think France have any ideas. This game is there for eitther side. No more b!tching about what was a correct call and get behind your country or your adopted one!

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:48 am

fa0019 wrote:A good ref should take the occasion into consideration. Its a world cup semi final... players will have a little extra adrenaline which is what I think happened with Warburton.

It was a bad tackle, it was a certain yellow. But a red, I'm not convinced.

Im not totally convinced by the red but youre being ridiculous to suggest they shoudl consider the occassion, quite the opposite. A bad tackle is a bad tackle.
How annoyed would you have been if a frenchman had pulled a bad tackle and he'd said to warburton " im not going to card him because this is an importnat game"

Warburton shouldnt have tackled like that, and once he had lifted the player shouldnt have tipped him and once he had tipped him shouldnt have driven him into the ground. Refrerees cant make excuses for players lacking self control or brains. If you dont have it its a weakness just like any other, your team suffers for it.

Perhaps Gatland made a msiatke loading too much onto a kid. Its why capatins are usually grizzled old veterans who have been there before and dont let the occassion get to them

by mckay1402 Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:48 am

At Waterloo the Commander of the Royal Welch was killed but the Welsh stood like a rock and saw off the French cavalry. It can be done!

by Mad for Chelsea Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:48 am

For those saying a yellow and a citing after the match would have been OK, no it wouldn't. If he gets a ban after the match it means he deserved a red card.

by TycroesOsprey Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:49 am

Hook is having a nightmare 2 missed tackles 2 missed penalties. Were still in this we can still win but the boys have to play out of their skins.

by wales606 Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:49 am

No A.Jones, No Warburton, 14 men. Ridiculous Red Card may well cost us this game.

by Guest Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:49 am

I've already said it, but yeah I'd bring Stephen Jones on now. We need his composure really and not Hook. Hook is not having a good game.

What's left of our forwards from 4-8 are doing their best, but I don't think it'll be enough. Keep on plugging though lads.

by walesworldcup Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:49 am

Hook is diabolical.

Chargedown nearly costing us a try. Missed tackles. Kicking everything away.

Backs aren't getting any decent ball look sluggish.

Would anyone swap Williams for Ryan Jones?

by walesworldcup Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:49 am

Wales should be winning 9-6

WHY THE HELL DIDN'T HALFPENNY TAKE LAST KICK??

by TheGreyGhost Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:50 am

The point is that even with 14 men, Wales are looking the better side. It's pointless debating the colour of the card, it's done.

If Wales apply enough pressure than can get the numbers evened up for 10 minutes or so, and they still have the weapons to win.

by PJHolybloke Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:50 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
Thomond wrote:Kiwi, rules are rules. He can't give him a yellow for the sake of the game if it was a red card offence in Rolland's eyes he should go. Wales and Warburton must live with the consequences of their idiotic tackle. They're putting in a great effort at the moment and I'm hoping they can maintain it!
Sorry Thomond, I didn't express myself clearly. To borrow Rodders' line,
The red is justifiable but I don't think there would be too many complaints if it had been yellow.
And I think had he gotten yellow Warburton's tournament would have been over at match-end

How would that be the case? He couldn't be cited if he'd been binned for it.

by walesworldcup Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:50 am

In Warburton's defence he let go of the guy as soon as he realised the tackle was going the way it was going.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:51 am

How about we settle for "on their day that couldve been a yellow"

Wals are still in this game, hats off to them they are still playing some of the best rugby in the tournament and deserve to be ranked 4th even if they lose.

by mckay1402 Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:51 am

He didn't drive him into the ground. He just lost his grip. Having said that it was still a bad tackle and after the dust has settled I think most will probably say it was justifiable. Having said that I still don't think Rolland should have been given the game

by valjester Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:51 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
Thomond wrote:Kiwi, rules are rules. He can't give him a yellow for the sake of the game if it was a red card offence in Rolland's eyes he should go. Wales and Warburton must live with the consequences of their idiotic tackle. They're putting in a great effort at the moment and I'm hoping they can maintain it!
Sorry Thomond, I didn't express myself clearly. To borrow Rodders' line,
The red is justifiable but I don't think there would be too many complaints if it had been yellow.
And I think had he gotten yellow Warburton's tournament would have been over at match-end

But surely this means that Rolland made the right call. The citing process is to deal with incidents which were worthy of red cards. Its not Rolland's job to make the game a spectacle for us. He has to apply the laws and in this case he did. He has always been consistent in this regard and has in the past sent people of for the same offence. It was a dangerous card which will lead to a suspension and would have if he got a yellow, which would mean that he should have got a red so this means its the right decision.

by TheGreyGhost Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:52 am

Pundits - COMPLETELY wrong. All of them.

by Thomond Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:52 am

If he brought him to ground he may not have been sent off. Dropping him was worse.

by **rodders** Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:52 am

Wow actually looking at the replay...yeah a red looks spot on. Clerc could have broken his neck.

Pienaar stop talking nonsence.

by Davie Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:53 am

roddersm wrote:Wow actually looking at the replay...yeah a red looks spot on. Clerc could have broken his neck.

Pienaar stop talking nonsence.

+100

by LuvSports! Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:53 am

usually i think pienaar is a great pundit but i think the emotions of the game and wanting to see a spectacle he was leaning towards a pen max a yellow very questionable and alllllllllllllllll da panel agree

by Gatts Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:53 am

no history of foul play
no driving into the ground

well done the irish french ref, decide a semi with a card

by valjester Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:53 am

walesworldcup wrote:In Warburton's defence he let go of the guy as soon as he realised the tackle was going the way it was going.

That's the problem, if he held on and let him down safely it wouldn't even be a penalty.

by TheGreyGhost Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:54 am

Can't believe they're all trying to use "the world wants to watch him play rugby" or "it's a world cup semi-final, make an exception", whilst watching that...one of the worst tackles in the world cup.

Every time I watch it, it looks like more of a red.

Commentators stoking some real outrage, and unjustifiably. ITV take a bow of shame.

by Taylorman Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:54 am

Hook is the diff.
Its either hes wearing low sprigs or has lost confidence.
Either way. Wales are way too good for france.
Just need to sort hook out

by Gatts Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:55 am

What worse, hook kicking or warbs off?

by nathan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:55 am

Gatts wrote:no history of foul play
no driving into the ground

well done the irish french ref, decide a semi with a card

don't start that! the game hasn't even finished yet!

by Standulstermen Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:55 am

Letting go isnt a defence though. Once he takes him he has the responsibility and letting go doesnt absolve him. That being said i think it was a yellow. Poor tackle though. Jones loss is crucial. Fair play to wales for getting the ball out early but they could have been pinged a few times in the scrum. Jones was as massove blow as well.

by faraway Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:55 am

the foxsport analysis of the red card: allain rolland panicked.

by trebellbobaggins Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:55 am

Changed my mind having seen it again. That wasn't red as he dropped him to avoid driving him.

by valjester Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:56 am

Gatts wrote:no history of foul play
no driving into the ground

well done the irish french ref, decide a semi with a card

Read the laws, it doesn't having to be driving, it also says you can't drop the player.
His previous record doesn't matter, it was a dangerous tackle and its lucky we're dicussing a red instead of wondering if clerc has a broken neck.

by Thomond Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:56 am

Dropping him is as bad as drving him down.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:56 am

Cant get over how biassed the iTV coverage is, even Piennar described Wales as "us"...then bleats on about how it shouldnt even be a yellow ignoring taht the rules stipulate a myellow as the minimum punishment for that kind of tackle.
The rules may be stupid, but the decision wasnt anyway near as bad as these guys are making out.

Now we are going back to cliches like "welsh fitness"

At least LOL is giving some real analysis, I usualy dislike him but hes the only one with anything to say about the game rather than gibbering and hyping the red card decision.

by EnglishReign Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:56 am

Wales need to keep composure, they're doing well and there's still a lot of quality in the team.

by PJHolybloke Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:56 am

roddersm wrote:Wow actually looking at the replay...yeah a red looks spot on. Clerc could have broken his neck.

Pienaar stop talking nonsence.

Broken his neck? By landing on his shoulders?

I suppose the fact that it was obviously a near fatal tackle is reflected both in the red card for Warburton and Clerc being rushed off for immediate emergency surgery?

Never a red card in all my days.

by nathan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:56 am

TheGreyGhost wrote:Can't believe they're all trying to use "the world wants to watch him play rugby" or "it's a world cup semi-final, make an exception", whilst watching that...one of the worst tackles in the world cup.

Every time I watch it, it looks like more of a red.

Commentators stoking some real outrage, and unjustifiably. ITV take a bow of shame.

In fairness, there allowed there opinion just as you are. I'd prefer to hear their opinion than what they think fans want to hear.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:57 am

PJHolybloke wrote:
roddersm wrote:Wow actually looking at the replay...yeah a red looks spot on. Clerc could have broken his neck.

Pienaar stop talking nonsence.

Broken his neck? By landing on his shoulders?

I suppose the fact that it was obviously a near fatal tackle is reflected both in the red card for Warburton and Clerc being rushed off for immediate emergency surgery?

Never a red card in all my days.

Ask BOD about that

by Taffineastbourne Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:57 am

Right ho.We have lost the best tighthead and the best 7 in the world.If our 14 win it will be the greatest result ever,bar none.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:57 am

Listen folks, rightly or wrongly, Warburton is off. It's done. Let's move on and get behind whichever team people want to win second half.

Wales will need to be clinical. Every time they make the French 22 they need to come away with points. They need to not get frustrated and be patient if France are defending well. They can still do this.

by Mad for Chelsea Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:57 am

but you can't drop tham either trebs, that's also dangerous. If you pick him up you make sure he gets back down safely. Have to love the irony of GG telling people to accept the decision and move on...

by Standulstermen Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:57 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:Changed my mind having seen it again. That wasn't red as he dropped him to avoid driving him.

Again letting go of the player is as bad as driving as you are not in control of the tackle. I do feel sorry for him. He isnt a malicious player and his play has deserved more.

by **rodders** Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:57 am

Jeebus you can't put the spectacle of the game against the safety of the player. steam

It was a red card. Full stop.

WTF is Ryder on about? "worst decision in RWC History"?!

I'll drop him on his head and then see how bad a call he thinks it was then.

by Taylorman Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:58 am

Was a red card.
Get over it.
If mccaw had have done that youd all be screaming blue murder.

by Higher_Ground Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:58 am

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Thats why you don't pick a youngster as captain.

Such a shame for the lad, he looked to pumped up during the anthems as he wasn't singing.

Yeah, all the other captains sitting at home on the sofa after being knocked out would have done much better. Try to hide your delight.

by Gatts Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:58 am

PJHolybloke wrote:
roddersm wrote:Wow actually looking at the replay...yeah a red looks spot on. Clerc could have broken his neck.

Pienaar stop talking nonsence.

Broken his neck? By landing on his shoulders?

I suppose the fact that it was obviously a near fatal tackle is reflected both in the red card for Warburton and Clerc being rushed off for immediate emergency surgery?

Never a red card in all my days.

well fecking said

by maestegmafia Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:00 am

C'mon wales
focus, and tackle hard

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