Keith Earls and the number 13

First topic message reminder :

So Munster have named Keith Earls at outside centre against Treviso. This is now Earls' third match in a row where he has played 13 and looks set to continue this against Castres and Northampton. Given his past experience here for Munster, Ireland and Lions is he a certainty to play there against Wales?

Sin é wrote:

So the lineout would have been O'Leary, Sexton, Trimble, Wallace, BOD, Bowe, Earls?

I'd have had Reddan at SH but other than that then yeah that seems like the team I'd have picked.

munkian wrote:From what I've watched, Munster would really struggle to score tries without Howlett , epsecially when their internationals are missing

Yes we would. But any team would struggle to win anything if you didn't have a Howlett & Mafi to take care of things with the number of internationals Munster have (not just through international callups - but the number of games they play is managed as well).

Sin é wrote:
Well, that is your opinion. I have mine which I have explained. I don't understand why you have a problem with it - but I'm not too bothered one way or the other.

I don't have any problem with you're opinion.I have a problem with you accusing Ulster of trying to buy silver by employing foreign players yet suggesting (and you never come out and say anything you just suggest it) that Munster only have foreigners to develop youngsters.They are there for the same reason,I think you just saw an opportunity to have a dig at Ulster and now you're struggling to justify it when you've been called out on how hypocritical your statement was.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

So the lineout would have been O'Leary, Sexton, Trimble, Wallace, BOD, Bowe, Earls?

I'd have had Reddan at SH but other than that then yeah that seems like the team I'd have picked.

I think Reddan gave the worst scrumhalf display I've ever seen in the autumn internationals in 2010 against South Africa. I'm surprised he got a game with Ireland again after that. Just not physical enough.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Well, that is your opinion. I have mine which I have explained. I don't understand why you have a problem with it - but I'm not too bothered one way or the other.

I don't have any problem with you're opinion.I have a problem with you accusing Ulster of trying to buy silver by employing foreign players yet suggesting (and you never come out and say anything you just suggest it) that Munster only have foreigners to develop youngsters.They are there for the same reason,I think you just saw an opportunity to have a dig at Ulster and now you're struggling to justify it when you've been called out on how hypocritical your statement was.

Hang on a second here ...

To back up my point that coaches like a bit of experience around young players to develop them (and why BOD would be kept in while Sexton was being blooded), I said that is what Ulster are doing with all their saffers in Ulster.

I was told I was wrong. That they were there to win silverwear. I wasn't having a dig at Ulster. I believed that is why they are there (and I wouldn't be happy about bringing in a huge number of players in key positions in Munster just to win some silverwear). That may well happen in the future, but I won't like it.

Sin é wrote:


I think Reddan gave the worst scrumhalf display I've ever seen in the autumn internationals in 2010 against South Africa. I'm surprised he got a game with Ireland again after that. Just not physical enough.

You must have missed the WC warm up match against France so.
Yeah he was awful against SA that day but he has improved no end and is now just about international quality (he'll never be a top player at that level),Murray has overtaken him now but last year he was far better than O'Leary who hasn't played up to an acceptable level since he got injured before the Lions tour.

Redden is perhaps now - after a good few frustrating years - one of the very fastest and accurate distributers certainly in Europe. It helps that he has always targets looking for a delivery with Leinster. But we'll see can he match his provincial performances. Of course he doesn't have the physical side to his game that Murray or O'Leary has but horses for courses. He'll be the go-to man if Ireland want to play it loose and extremely fast.

2010? Try 2011 with O'Leary and you come up with the same conclusion - players have off-form periods.

Sin é wrote:

Hang on a second here ...

To back up my point that coaches like a bit of experience around young players to develop them (and why BOD would be kept in while Sexton was being blooded), I said that is what Ulster are doing with all their saffers in Ulster.

I was told I was wrong. That they were there to win silverwear. I wasn't having a dig at Ulster. I believed that is why they are there (and I wouldn't be happy about bringing in a huge number of players in key positions in Munster just to win some silverwear). That may well happen in the future, but I won't like it.

I really can't dumb it down any more for you.All players are at there teams to try to win silverware or improve the team.Munster have Botha,Mafi,du Preez,Chambers and Borlase.These are players in key positions and they are there to help Munster win silverware anything else is a bonus but they would still employ them if the other benefits weren't there.
How you can think otherwise baffles me as I'm sure if you ask any of those players why they are with Munster it isn't because the prospect of bringing on young players enticed them.

Sin é wrote:
I was told I was wrong. That they were there to win silverwear. I wasn't having a dig at Ulster. I believed that is why they are there (and I wouldn't be happy about bringing in a huge number of players in key positions in Munster just to win some silverwear). That may well happen in the future, but I won't like it.

Sin you are on some form today sir.

Tight head and inside centre might be seen as key postions wouldn't they? Ulster and Munster have exactly the same number of overseas players and are both within the required quota. The overseas players that Munster have had, have contributed massively to their on field performances and Ulster now have quality players who are doing the same. The fact that they are helping the young players is a big bonus but players are paid to play and perform first and foremost.

I don't recall you complaining when Munster had enough Kiwis to perform a mini haka against the All blacks or that Munster are currently fielding 2 overseas 1st choice props or that the shortage of Irish centres is in part due to Munster having signed 4 overseas centres in the past decade?

None of which I would be critical of because Munster have every right to strengthen where they see fit, as do Ulster.

Some of the posts here are an actual joke *facepalm*

Sin you are being so inconsistent with what you say. Just how you can say Ulster are guilty of having foreign signings to win silverware is disappointing, yet Munster can sign them and that is fine and totally different is beyond me. When you start speaking sense again maybe people might take you seriously. Some of the things you say about the likes of Sexton/ROG/Munster are ridiculous.

But to be on topic, I think Sin you mentioned people needing to get over themselves about the 13 shirt, because people expect this new 13 to be the next BOD. That isn't it at all, I don't think anyone on these forums at least thinks that. What we do want is the next best thing. Earls does not fit the bill. As a winger or full-back he could become fantastic, but not at 13.

As far as 12 is concerned, yes we should have definitely had a new 12 in by now. That way we wouldn't be as concerned about who is going to fill in for BOD. Now we have D'Arcy who struggled against teenagers just out of school and McFadden who hasn't had a proper chance at 12 yet. So either we have an entirely new centre partnership or we play the "experienced" one. Stupid position to be in. By now we could have had McFadden an established 12, or someone at least, and bring this new 13 in much easier.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
But to be on topic, I think Sin you mentioned people needing to get over themselves about the 13 shirt, because people expect this new 13 to be the next BOD. That isn't it at all, I don't think anyone on these forums at least thinks that.

Sin was the only poster who mentioned the 13 shirt as having some kind of special significance.

Why are people pretending that helping to win silverware and bringing through young players are mutually exclusive? It's not one or other, it's both. Both are reasons why they are here and both are very important. And both have nothing to do with who should play 13 in the Six Nations.

You lads don't half talk some tom kite

It is a team game. If we find a good balance between a 12 and 13, they could collectively form a better partnership than D'Arcy or BOD ever did. Maybe they won't have the individual brilliance of BOD, but I would much rather have a team, than picking individuals (which clearly does not work).

Speaking of centres who combine well together, I am starting to think McFadden and Cave may make a very formidable partnership. Or McFadden and Fitz. Either of those partnerships would be the best we can do this 6 nations. In the future, I would like to see Marshall and Hanrahan challenging for 12, and Griffin/Spence for 13. We are well set, we just need to stop picking people out of position, and actually trust our centres who play week in week out for their province.

Notch wrote:Why are people pretending that helping to win silverware and bringing through young players are mutually exclusive? It's not one or other, it's both. Both are reasons why they are here and both are very important. And both have nothing to do with who should play 13 in the Six Nations.

You lads don't half talk some tom kite

Exactly, how can anyone suggest Munster (or any other team) sign their foreign players for any other reason than to help them win games? It is absolutely ludicrous and naive to suggest otherwise. And in what way is that disappointing?? Winning games is not a disappointment..

Well look at Leinster. They can do both without foreigners...that's just how good they are. Tadhg Óg O'Nacewa is so good you'd swear he had SH blood in him but no, it's just the 'Leinster way' that produces him. Stop being envious everyone and just mimic it......

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:


I think Reddan gave the worst scrumhalf display I've ever seen in the autumn internationals in 2010 against South Africa. I'm surprised he got a game with Ireland again after that. Just not physical enough.

You must have missed the WC warm up match against France so.
Yeah he was awful against SA that day but he has improved no end and is now just about international quality (he'll never be a top player at that level),Murray has overtaken him now but last year he was far better than O'Leary who hasn't played up to an acceptable level since he got injured before the Lions tour.

We're talking about why BOD or D'Arcy wasn't dropped a year ago to facilitate the development of a new centre partnership. Reddan gave Kidney every reason to want to do everything in his power in the SA match to get a partnership between O'Leary & Sexton going. The previous autumn, O'Leary had a magnificent game against SA.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:


I think Reddan gave the worst scrumhalf display I've ever seen in the autumn internationals in 2010 against South Africa. I'm surprised he got a game with Ireland again after that. Just not physical enough.

You must have missed the WC warm up match against France so.
Yeah he was awful against SA that day but he has improved no end and is now just about international quality (he'll never be a top player at that level),Murray has overtaken him now but last year he was far better than O'Leary who hasn't played up to an acceptable level since he got injured before the Lions tour.

We're talking about why BOD or D'Arcy wasn't dropped a year ago to facilitate the development of a new centre partnership. Reddan gave Kidney every reason to want to do everything in his power in the SA match to get a partnership between O'Leary & Sexton going. The previous autumn, O'Leary had a magnificent game against SA.

You asked me what backline I'd have picked so I told you.
Are you talking about the game in Croker when Sexton kicked all the points?I was at that game and to say O'Leary was magnificent is just laughable,he wasn't at his worst but he wasn't good.
Anyway why would a game in 2009 have any bearing on the team being picked in 2011?

i think earls would be much better off on the wing. He is a very taletned winger, and if he's doing well there, then leave him there....

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Notch wrote:Why are people pretending that helping to win silverware and bringing through young players are mutually exclusive? It's not one or other, it's both. Both are reasons why they are here and both are very important. And both have nothing to do with who should play 13 in the Six Nations.

You lads don't half talk some tom kite

Exactly, how can anyone suggest Munster (or any other team) sign their foreign players for any other reason than to help them win games? It is absolutely ludicrous and naive to suggest otherwise. And in what way is that disappointing?? Winning games is not a disappointment..

As a supporter whose main song is "Stand Up for the Ulstermen", are you trying to tell me that you would not think it a much greater achievement to win the Heineken Cup with a team born/learned their rugby in Ulster than a team that had several south africans/kiwis in the team?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:


I think Reddan gave the worst scrumhalf display I've ever seen in the autumn internationals in 2010 against South Africa. I'm surprised he got a game with Ireland again after that. Just not physical enough.

You must have missed the WC warm up match against France so.
Yeah he was awful against SA that day but he has improved no end and is now just about international quality (he'll never be a top player at that level),Murray has overtaken him now but last year he was far better than O'Leary who hasn't played up to an acceptable level since he got injured before the Lions tour.

We're talking about why BOD or D'Arcy wasn't dropped a year ago to facilitate the development of a new centre partnership. Reddan gave Kidney every reason to want to do everything in his power in the SA match to get a partnership between O'Leary & Sexton going. The previous autumn, O'Leary had a magnificent game against SA.

You asked me what backline I'd have picked so I told you.
Are you talking about the game in Croker when Sexton kicked all the points?I was at that game and to say O'Leary was magnificent is just laughable,he wasn't at his worst but he wasn't good.
Anyway why would a game in 2009 have any bearing on the team being picked in 2011?

Well, at least Ireland won the game with O'Leary at Scrumhalf. They didn't with Reddan the following year.

By the way, O'Leary ran the show when he played with Sexton. Fair play to Sexton, he did what he was asked to do and that was kick the points.

EDIT: Missed your final query.

*Deep, deep sigh *
The point was made that someone should have been blooded way before now at 13. That is why we are looking at what was happening a year to 18 months ago.

Some of the things that made it more difficult to drop the Irish captain were:
new personnel in the backs and in particular leaving as many familar players around Sexton.

SecretFly wrote:Well look at Leinster. They can do both without foreigners...that's just how good they are. Tadhg Óg O'Nacewa is so good you'd swear he had SH blood in him but no, it's just the 'Leinster way' that produces him. Stop being envious everyone and just mimic it......

Do you know where Hoggy or Ian Dowling's family hail from? North or the South island?

Sin é wrote:
Well, at least Ireland won the game with O'Leary at Scrumhalf. They didn't with Reddan the following year.

By the way, O'Leary ran the show when he played with Sexton. Fair play to Sexton, he did what he was asked to do and that was kick the points.

Lol when you can't win an argument you resort to starting a fight.

Here's some player ratings from a SA website http://www.rugby365.com/all_news/sa/news/2082920.htm

10 Jonathan Sexton:
What a find for Ireland. Even though he was well looked after by the Bok defenders, he produced some good touchfinders. And his goal-kicking was so much better than Steyn.
8/10

9 Tomas O'Leary:
Penalised for skew feed early, otherwise decent service. Nothing special.
6/10

Sounds like O'Leary ran the show alright.

Sin é wrote:

EDIT: Missed your final query.

*Deep, deep sigh *
The point was made that someone should have been blooded way before now at 13. That is why we are looking at what was happening a year to 18 months ago.

Some of the things that made it more difficult to drop the Irish captain were:
new personnel in the backs and in particular leaving as many familar players around Sexton.

You make this excuse for Steady Deccie all the time but you have no stats or quotes to back it up just your own opinion,which if you think O'Leary was magnificent in that game you mentioned is questionable to say the least.
Another thing that I already mentioned is that it's D'Arcy that has needed replacing far more tha BoD and if BoD was fit this year we would still see the same centre pairing trotted out,Kidney has introduced depth to the Irish squad and for that he deserves credit but when it comes to the crunch he falls back to the safe option almost without fail.There are a few exceptions but there are mitigating factors in those instances too.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Well, at least Ireland won the game with O'Leary at Scrumhalf. They didn't with Reddan the following year.

By the way, O'Leary ran the show when he played with Sexton. Fair play to Sexton, he did what he was asked to do and that was kick the points.

Lol when you can't win an argument you resort to starting a fight.

Here's some player ratings from a SA website http://www.rugby365.com/all_news/sa/news/2082920.htm

10 Jonathan Sexton:
What a find for Ireland. Even though he was well looked after by the Bok defenders, he produced some good touchfinders. And his goal-kicking was so much better than Steyn.
8/10

9 Tomas O'Leary:
Penalised for skew feed early, otherwise decent service. Nothing special.
6/10

Sounds like O'Leary ran the show alright.

Guardian's ratings: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/28/ireland-south-africa-player-ratings

JONATHAN SEXTON FLY-HALF – 7
Justified his selection ahead of Ronan O'Gara. An early penalty settled any nerves and he shows a swaggering arrogance of a Tony Ward. His kicks won the game.[/b]

TOMAS O'LEARY SCRUM-HALF – 6
Showed what the Lions missed last summer. An impressive general and made some telling tackles. Outplayed his opposite number [FOURIE DU PREEZ)

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

EDIT: Missed your final query.

*Deep, deep sigh *
The point was made that someone should have been blooded way before now at 13. That is why we are looking at what was happening a year to 18 months ago.

Some of the things that made it more difficult to drop the Irish captain were:
new personnel in the backs and in particular leaving as many familar players around Sexton.

You make this excuse for Steady Deccie all the time but you have no stats or quotes to back it up just your own opinion,which if you think O'Leary was magnificent in that game you mentioned is questionable to say the least.
Another thing that I already mentioned is that it's D'Arcy that has needed replacing far more tha BoD and if BoD was fit this year we would still see the same centre pairing trotted out,Kidney has introduced depth to the Irish squad and for that he deserves credit but when it comes to the crunch he falls back to the safe option almost without fail.There are a few exceptions but there are mitigating factors in those instances too.

Well back then (according to the Guardian).

REPLACEMENTS

Gordon D'Arcy (P Wallace, 23) Strengthened his claims to be O'Driscoll's centre partner in the Six Nations. 6

Sin é wrote:

Guardian's ratings: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/28/ireland-south-africa-player-ratings

JONATHAN SEXTON FLY-HALF – 7
Justified his selection ahead of Ronan O'Gara. An early penalty settled any nerves and he shows a swaggering arrogance of a Tony Ward. His kicks won the game.[/b]

TOMAS O'LEARY SCRUM-HALF – 6
Showed what the Lions missed last summer. An impressive general and made some telling tackles. Outplayed his opposite number [FOURIE DU PREEZ)

Yes a 6 out of 10 was better than du Preez he must have been on top of his game.

Sin é wrote:


Well back then (according to the Guardian).

REPLACEMENTS

Gordon D'Arcy (P Wallace, 23) Strengthened his claims to be O'Driscoll's centre partner in the Six Nations. 6

Deep deep sigh.

Another 6 out of 10 my god these are world class performances I've missed.I must have had too much to drink that day

It's 2009.................. this is 2012. Players are meant to develop, that's why life takes a few years! And yes, too, players that are off-form can get it back in time.

Why 2009? What's so special about 2009!???? Okay so yeah, we picked up something called a Slam...but what was so special about 2009? Yeah, I know, I know... Leinster won the Heineken, but what makes 2009 so special???..... yeah, I know that too, don't rush me!!...so Brian O'Driscoll was robbed of International Player of the Year by another great player who hardly played that year!!..........................................................
.............................................. still doesn't tell me why 2009was so special?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:


Well back then (according to the Guardian).

REPLACEMENTS

Gordon D'Arcy (P Wallace, 23) Strengthened his claims to be O'Driscoll's centre partner in the Six Nations. 6

Deep deep sigh.

Another 6 out of 10 my god these are world class performances I've missed. I must have had too much to drink that day

All relative my dear boy. All Relative. Brian O'Driscoll 6; Fourie 5. Morne Styne got 4. Ruan Pienaar got 5 (he came on as a sub).

EDIT: and Ireland won.

SecretFly wrote:It's 2009.................. this is 2012. Players are meant to develop, that's why life takes a few years! And yes, too, players that are off-form can get it back in time.

Why 2009? What's so special about 2009!???? Okay so yeah, we picked up something called a Slam...but what was so special about 2009? Yeah, I know, I know... Leinster won the Heineken, but what makes 2009 so special???..... yeah, I know that too, don't rush me!!...so Brian O'Driscoll was robbed of International Player of the Year by another great player who hardly played that year!!..........................................................
.............................................. still doesn't tell me why 2009was so special?

Fly, I'm explaining why Brian O'Driscoll, the Ireland captain, wasn't dropped to blood a new outside centre 18 months/year ago.

This is a response to queries as to why we don't have an array of experienced outside centres ready to step into BOD's boots now that he will be out of commission for the next couple of months.

Hello all,

I am one of the invisible guys in the shadows here, in that I read pretty much as much as I can (and have done for quite a while, just as I did on the old 606), and can I just say this has been an interesting thread, and great amusement in the latter stages!

Often I make a vow to post more often but alot of the time I just enjoy reading alot of the posts from all ye feckin great posters here! One reason I prob don't post too often is cause am bloody paranoid and have to check everything 20 times and then I also end up writing far too much and I need to eat at end of the day!

My couple of cents regarding this would be:

- Earls has not done as badly at centre for Ireland as some people make out.

- In the England game he made one mistake early on to let Tuilagi in but apart from that he had a good game. The mistake he made was amplified out of proportion.

- However, obviously we need a more long term replacement to BOD and Earls is not it.

- I'm not completely against the idea of Earls at 13 for this 6 Nations but at same time if there is a more long term alternative that can step up to the plate NOW then I think they should be given the nod. Like Cave or O'Malley but the question is whether or not they are ready. Or even Fitzgerald but only if he can possibly be viewed as a long term solution.

- If there is no long-term alternative to Earls ready to step up now then I am not completely against Earls (or even Fitzgerald) playing 13 this 6 Nations

- However I do think in games against Italy or perhaps Scotland that a more long term prospect should be given the chance.

- I do agree that D'arcy is not performing well enough and for that reason I'd have someone else for the 6 nations even tho there will be a new 13 as well. I certainly think with D'arcy out of the picture, as well as a new 13 in place, that other teams are going to find it harder to know what to expect as well.

- If Paddy Wallace is fit then I think it wouldn't be a bad thing to have him at 12 to lend a hand as it were to the new 13. I also would not have a prob with McFadden in there and TBH wouldn't even mind Fitz, as long as it's not D'arcy. By all means let D'arcy have a bench spot so he can still come on and prove himself (never know being dropped might be what he needs to rediscover his form). Although I don't even know if there is enogh space on bench for him taking cover into consideration and can't be bothered working it out now!

Someone mentioned a 10,12,13 of Sexton McFadden and Cave which I think would defintely be interesting and we could learn alot from it! And just to clarify, whatever the centre combination, I would definitely have Sexton at 10. I did want ROG to play during WC but only because Sextons place kicking was so bad and I felt that our back line had no spark regardless of who was at 10. Hopefully this will change pretty soon though!

By the way, I hope you noted the comments on Earls in the Guardian.

KEITH EARLS WING – 5

Luke Fitzgerald's replacement had a late chip and chase but had few opportunities in attack. Terrific in defence, though.

ha, ha!

Sin é wrote:

Deep deep sigh.

Another 6 out of 10 my god these are world class performances I've missed. I must have had too much to drink that day

All relative my dear boy. All Relative. Brian O'Driscoll 6; Fourie 5. Morne Styne got 4. Ruan Pienaar got 5 (he came on as a sub).

[/quote]

Wow you're condescending when you can't make a reasonable argument.Think about the ridiculousness of the fact that the only way you can justify Kidney not dropping O'Leary or D'Arcy is by harping back to a game played in 2009 in horrible weather.This was a game in which the 2 players mentioned were slightly above average in 2 newspaper ratings and you think that justifies 2 years of continued selection.
Can you remember one good thing either of those players did in that game,I can't,I remember O'Leary putting up at least 3 aimless box kicks and D'Arcy being completely anonymous because they weren't good that day and haven't been good for Ireland any time since.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It's 2009.................. this is 2012. Players are meant to develop, that's why life takes a few years! And yes, too, players that are off-form can get it back in time.

Why 2009? What's so special about 2009!???? Okay so yeah, we picked up something called a Slam...but what was so special about 2009? Yeah, I know, I know... Leinster won the Heineken, but what makes 2009 so special???..... yeah, I know that too, don't rush me!!...so Brian O'Driscoll was robbed of International Player of the Year by another great player who hardly played that year!!..........................................................
.............................................. still doesn't tell me why 2009was so special?

Fly, I'm explaining why Brian O'Driscoll, the Ireland captain, wasn't dropped to blood a new outside centre 18 months/year ago.

This is a response to queries as to why we don't have an array of experienced outside centres ready to step into BOD's boots now that he will be out of commission for the next couple of months.

Oh I know Sin é, and I think I agreed with you on that one earlier if I can remember correctly - a rare occurance!! ...the agreeing with you bit But I was just having fun with it now. There's only so much ultra serious I can do in a day. I start to take things not seriously enough when I get tired.

Sin é wrote:By the way, I hope you noted the comments on Earls in the Guardian.

KEITH EARLS WING – 5

Luke Fitzgerald's replacement had a late chip and chase but had few opportunities in attack. Terrific in defence, though.

ha, ha!

Yes but he played on the wing that day,you've just helped make one of my points thank you.

Irishhoneymonster wrote:Hello all,

I am one of the invisible guys in the shadows here, in that I read pretty much as much as I can (and have done for quite a while, just as I did on the old 606), and can I just say this has been an interesting thread, and great amusement in the latter stages!

Don't be worriyiede abwth your puntuatown or nuttin at all: Just TYpe whene you have sumthing to say. Don't worry about the longwinded stuff...me and a few others take care of the stuff nobody reads But seriously, it's more fun to post and get into the meat of the subject. But I know what you mean, I did a lot of lurking here, reading the old 606 boys before I decided to join up............... to yawns of disapproval from my old mates! But good to have you on board

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Deep deep sigh.

Another 6 out of 10 my god these are world class performances I've missed. I must have had too much to drink that day

All relative my dear boy. All Relative. Brian O'Driscoll 6; Fourie 5. Morne Styne got 4. Ruan Pienaar got 5 (he came on as a sub).

Wow you're condescending when you can't make a reasonable argument.Think about the ridiculousness of the fact that the only way you can justify Kidney not dropping O'Leary or D'Arcy is by harping back to a game played in 2009 in horrible weather.This was a game in which the 2 players mentioned were slightly above average in 2 newspaper ratings and you think that justifies 2 years of continued selection.
Can you remember one good thing either of those players did in that game,I can't,I remember O'Leary putting up at least 3 aimless box kicks and D'Arcy being completely anonymous because they weren't good that day and haven't been good for Ireland any time since.[/quote]

Are you sorry now that you introduced newspaper ratings into it

Don't be worriyiede abwth your puntuatown or nuttin at all: Just TYpe whene you have sumthing to say. Don't worry about the longwinded stuff...me and a few others take care of the stuff nobody reads But seriously, it's more fun to post and get into the meat of the subject. But I know what you mean, I did a lot of lurking here, reading the old 606 boys before I decided to join up............... to yawns of disapproval from my old mates! But good to have you on board [/quote]

Lol cheers Fly. I'll prob disappear agian in the next few hours for another 4 or 5 months but only if you promise you won't miss me

And I still can't work out how to bloody quote

Irishhoneymonster wrote:And I still can't work out how to bloody quote

Don't worry. Small potatoes, it happens to the best of us !

Welcome and hang around.

Sin é wrote:

Irishhoneymonster wrote:And I still can't work out how to bloody quote

Don't worry. Small potatoes, it happens to the best of us !

Welcome and hang around.

Ahhh cheers Sin, even if you are a right bloody eejit

Hopefully the quote above works

Sin é wrote:By the way, I hope you noted the comments on Earls in the Guardian.

KEITH EARLS WING – 5

Luke Fitzgerald's replacement had a late chip and chase but had few opportunities in attack. Terrific in defence, though.

ha, ha!

Getting very defensive here Sin. Note it says wing. And your above statement about stand up for the ulstermen is absolutely ridiculous. The saffers/other who we have are part of the ulster team, just like anyone else. They are ulstermen, in a rugby context. Why are you talking how proud people should be of an all irish team, when Munster must play the likes of Botha, Du Preez, Mafi and Howlett to compete? Specifically Botha and Howlett. Get off your high horse sin, the provinces have signings who help them win games. What on earth is wrong with that? Seriously Sin, you talk some absolute crap. Just throw the towel in, you are getting more and more ridiculous.

The earls to 13 experiment will end one of two ways. Either he will fulfil his potential and Deccie will be vindicated or we will have a similar repeat of the buckley debacle.

I just find it baffling that we move a guy who has had one good game at 13 internationally (same amount as he has had at 15) when he has been excellent numerous times on the wing. If earls doesn't perform in the next two heineken cup games at 13 and is picked there it is a dreadful slap for the likes of cave who have performed week in week out.

Who knows what Deccie will do though. Let's wait and see

Come off it Rory, a rating in a newspaper that picks out a young player for his good defence (who was getting his 2nd start internationally against a Top 3 country) couldn't be as bad a defender as some make out here in any position on the pitch.

BOD mustn't have been passing the ball to him as he didn't get much opportunities in attack

For the staticians out there - BOD passed the ball 4 times and he didn't offload once.

Maybe we should put BOD on the wing until he learns to pass, makes space for others, stops scoring tries (tick as applicable) - all the stuff that a centre should do.


As for being proud of a Munster born team - it comes from a comment from Alan Quinlan in his newspaper column as to how the Munster pack were of beating the Toulouse pack because every one of them were born Munstermen/brought through for the 2008 win in the Heineken Cup.

The Munster pack were:
Horan, Flannery, Hayes, Poc, Doc, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy.

The Toulouse pack were:
D Human, W Servat, S Perugini; F Pelous (capt), P Albacete; J Bouilhou, T Dusautoir, S Sowerby.

For the 2006 win, Trevor Halstead was the only other NIQ player involved and he was terrific.

Munster already won a Heineken Cup without Botha & Howlett. I hope Munster can do it again (and I'm happy to wait for that to happen).

Could we win a HEC with just Botha?

Horan, Varley, Botha
Ryan, POC
O'Mahony, Coughlan, Wallace
Murray, ROG
Earls, Barnes
Zebo, Jones, Hurley

Sin é wrote:Come off it Rory, a rating in a newspaper that picks out a young player for his good defence (who was getting his 2nd start internationally against a Top 3 country) couldn't be as bad a defender as some make out here in any position on the pitch.

BOD mustn't have been passing the ball to him as he didn't get much opportunities in attack

For the staticians out there - BOD passed the ball 4 times and he didn't offload once.

Maybe we should put BOD on the wing until he learns to pass, makes space for others, stops scoring tries (tick as applicable) - all the stuff that a centre should do.


As for being proud of a Munster born team - it comes from a comment from Alan Quinlan in his newspaper column as to how the Munster pack were of beating the Toulouse pack because every one of them were born Munstermen/brought through for the 2008 win in the Heineken Cup.

The Munster pack were:
Horan, Flannery, Hayes, Poc, Doc, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy.

The Toulouse pack were:
D Human, W Servat, S Perugini; F Pelous (capt), P Albacete; J Bouilhou, T Dusautoir, S Sowerby.

For the 2006 win, Trevor Halstead was the only other NIQ player involved and he was terrific.

Munster already won a Heineken Cup without Botha & Howlett. I hope Munster can do it again (and I'm happy to wait for that to happen).

People have been saying Earls defence at centre is not good enough - his positioning. That article said he plays wing. In each position in the back-line there are different ways you must position yourself defensively. What you have done is proved again why he is best in the back three. His defence there is very good. It isn't at centre. Nobody said he is plain defensively weak. You here what you want to hear.

So Munster had an "all irish" pack. Tell me, what was the back-line that day? Was it all irish as well? Or are you picking and choosing?

red_stag wrote:Could we win a HEC with just Botha?

Horan, Varley, Botha
Ryan, POC
O'Mahony, Coughlan, Wallace
Murray, ROG
Earls, Barnes
Zebo, Jones, Hurley

Not with how Munster are playing atm.

Rory, when you play 10 man rugby it doesn't matter who the backline is. Our pack won us that match.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

red_stag wrote:Could we win a HEC with just Botha?

Horan, Varley, Botha
Ryan, POC
O'Mahony, Coughlan, Wallace
Murray, ROG
Earls, Barnes
Zebo, Jones, Hurley

Not with how Munster are playing atm.

Only team to have won every match in their pool and not likely to change next week.

Home Quarter Final. . . very tough to beat in Thomond. Home semi final. Final!!!

I do think we would need home advantage to get to final but we are looking well placed for it. 1st or 2nd seed along with Leinster.

At this moment in time Earls is the best OC we have he has been the main replacement there over the last couple of years and 4 of his tries are from OC. Cave and Spence still have a long way to go to make intl level, Griffin looks to me to be the next possible in the position.

Sure he made one mistake against England but had Tuilagi in his pocket for the rest of the game...however am sure it will be mentioned ad naseum for any debate about him.

I bet nobody noticed the lovely pass for the Munster try over Christmas...thougth not. We could mention that every time the debate comes up as well. When BOD started he couldnt pass for sh1t and the less said about his kicking game the better. Yet he was quick off the mark and made up for it through hard work. Earls will play the rest of the season as OC for Munster regardless and I can see him doing well in the Ireland 13. The bigger problem is who to put at 12...