Keith Earls and the number 13

First topic message reminder :

So Munster have named Keith Earls at outside centre against Treviso. This is now Earls' third match in a row where he has played 13 and looks set to continue this against Castres and Northampton. Given his past experience here for Munster, Ireland and Lions is he a certainty to play there against Wales?

Gibson wrote:Cos Kidney needs to think deeply and fastidiously consider every possible option open to him. It takes time to alter the squad and invent a game plan that works around it...

Then, he goes and picks the same players he always does and says "Feic it, sure we'll give it an aul lash"

Just joshin. Just joshin.

HELLO MMC!

Missed ya bud.

I really hope we do see some new guys brought in all right. Not change for the sake of change, more so just rewarding the players who have been starting and playing well in their particular position for their province (or region / club). Is that too much to ask for?

MMC,
I think he should continue to let the Murray/Sexton partnership develop in the 6-N. Reddan on the bench. And give Toner a run from the bench. Cullen has been shoite. Ryan is in for DOC - on pure merit. Backrow is fine, just pull O Mahony into the 22. He's earned it. Trimble - a MUST on the wing. Dont care how he is faciltated. He has been so patient.

Centres? McFadden & Earls I spose. Has to be worth trying. Dorce is not at the races. Fitz back in the 22. Either him or Bowe(who needs a shake-up) to play opposite wing to Trimble.

Enough change and experimenting there to be getting on with.

I'd agree with almost all of that Gibbo.

A backline along the lines of:

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. Earls (would have been Cave)
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

22. Bowe

is what I'd go for. To me, those are by and large the form players in those positions.

Reddan could consider himself unlucky and Earls at 13 is more down to lack of viable options (O'Malley's not ready yet).

MMC wrote:I'd agree with almost all of that Gibbo.

A backline along the lines of:

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. McFadden
13. Fitzgerald
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

22. Bowe

is what I'd go for. To me, those are by and large the form players in those positions.

Reddan could consider himself unlucky and Earls at 13 is more down to lack of viable options (O'Malley's not ready yet).

There is what I would choose.

Certainly has merit Rory.

With regard to Fitz though, I'd be reluctant to shift him around in the backline. It's only now that he seems to have finally gotten his confidence back. I'd be worried that a poor game in an unfamiliar position would be a big hindrance. Just like his foray at fullback and Earls' whole career really.

Why did Fitzgerald not play against Glasgow? How injured is he?

Oh great call Rory, but yeah MMC is right, it near phhoked his head & his game moving him around. Earls too. Maybe something that will evolve? But give him this 6-N on the wing. Id go with that backline MMC.

Deccie wants all his backs to be at least bi-positional. Sooo, its always in his mind. But lets do this slowly and surely...

Cant believe I just said that. We need to re-build confidence and to do that, we need to beat Wales 1st up and then have another look.

I was reading Heaslip today and the..well the idea that the loss to Wales in the WC was water-off-a-duck's-back - it kinda unsettled me. But then again, it strikes me as the right attitude to have from a player who has both won 'medals' (as he kept saying) and has lost some important games too. I mean, it's easy for him to compute loss in his head but the fact that it slides off his back quickly is also ..encouraging, I hope.... although I'll need a lot of evidence in the coming weeks that I'm right.

But they are a strange bunch indeed [the players] when playing for Ireland, or talking about it. Some sound like they'd drive through a brickwall on the madness of the patriotic fervour they experience - other's toss a loose eyebrow into the air and infer it's no great shakes, just another shirt and a job to do.

Some try to see what 'we' see (O'Gara "we fell in love with ourselves") and others seem to be oblivious to the shortcomings. Some play in sides that offer so much more than the various parts of the Irish game and yet fail to see that criticism of the Irish way is often justified - even if it's a knarly old man in a studio saying it. Strange bunch of men sometimes.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Why did Fitzgerald not play against Glasgow? How injured is he?

Neck probs Feckless. Schmidt said himself and Sexton are in the mix for Montpellier. But, I cant see them both play a full 80 mins.

SecretFly wrote:I was reading Heaslip today and the..well the idea that the loss to Wales in the WC was water-off-a-duck's-back - it kinda unsettled me. But then again, it strikes me as the right attitude to have from a player who has both won 'medals' (as he kept saying) and has lost some important games too. I mean, it's easy for him to compute loss in his head but the fact that it slides off his back quickly is also ..encouraging, I hope.... although I'll need a lot of evidence in the coming weeks that I'm right.

But they are a strange bunch indeed [the players] when playing for Ireland, or talking about it. Some sound like they'd drive through a brickwall on the madness of the patriotic fervour they experience - other's toss a loose eyebrow into the air and infer it's no great shakes, just another shirt and a job to do.

Some try to see what 'we' see (O'Gara "we fell in love with ourselves") and others seem to be oblivious to the shortcomings. Some play in sides that offer so much more than the various parts of the Irish game and yet fail to see that criticism of the Irish way is often justified - even if it's a knarly old man in a studio saying it. Strange bunch of men sometimes.

Fly,
That article and its not so hidden content, are proof-positive, that ROG and Heaslip should never be let near the Irish Captaincy. They are both far too me, me, me.

Gibbo,

O'Connell first - for as long as he's able to play International and wants it.
And then probably Best - who bloods up for every Irish game.

I love O'Driscoll. Nobody comes close to him in my estimation but I don't think he'll need the Captaincy when he returns. He just doesn't need it, and will be better served without it.

We really have to stop agreeing like this man, people will talk. But yeah. On all counts. BOD just needs to have one last, fully-fit and unfettered, Year In The Centre.
Paulie is a superb Captain and a born-leader.

Christ, I miss BOD already and he hasn't gone yet.

I think BOD will come back at 12, where we are not just as strong. He will do wonders for whoever we choose at 13, and for their development. And when the time comes that BOD retires, the 13 will already be experienced and have learnt off the best in the business. BOD still has a big role to play I feel.

There's always room in a team for "characters" like Heaslip, as well as ego-maniacs like ROG. You need all sorts in a good squad. But neither should be captaining Ireland. It's not a role they're suited to.

The captaincy isn't even an issue worth discussing though. We have POC. He is by far the best option for captain. Nothing else needs to be said.

Chillax lads BOD will be back and a better player for the rest, wouldn't be surprised if he carries on another season like O'Connell. I think the best is yet to come from the great man

Not impressed by Heaslip if he reckons the defeat to Wales was no big shakes! Needs a kick up the backside if thats his attitude!

Gibbo : That article and its not so hidden content, are proof-positive, that ROG and Heaslip should never be let near the Irish Captaincy. They are both far too me, me, me.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean.

ROG said that Ireland were too in love with themselves, Heaslip said they were confident, not cocky!

I can think of reasons why ROG should not be captain (mainly I think the outhalf has enough to do and he is a back). As for Heaslip, anyone (having won 2 Heineken cup and a Grand Slam with Ireland) that would say that the highlight of their career was getting selected for the Lions, doesn't deserve to be picked for Ireland let alone captain it. (Note, both O'Driscoll & ROG said winning the Grand Slam, Keith Wood said getting capped for Ireland and he was on a Lions winning team and selected World Player of the Year).

SecretFly wrote:Gibbo,

O'Connell first - for as long as he's able to play International and wants it.
And then probably Best - who bloods up for every Irish game.

I love O'Driscoll. Nobody comes close to him in my estimation but I don't think he'll need the Captaincy when he returns. He just doesn't need it, and will be better served without it.

All due respects to Best who seems to be a great lad, but I've never heard Best being spoken of in leadership terms in the same way as Johann Muller is (who has replaced Best as the Ulster captain).

We all saw Keith Wood cry like a baby when his final game for Ireland ended. He doesn't have to tell anyone how much it meant to him. Genuine grief. Like he said, his heart was still willing, but his body had had enough.

Sin é wrote:
All due respects to Best who seems to be a great lad, but I've never heard Best being spoken of in leadership terms in the same way as Johann Muller is (who has replaced Best as the Ulster captain).

...expect maybe by Muller himself: http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/11476.php

or maybe by your auld mucker Leamy:

"In return, Leamy suggests Best is not a bad player, before relenting and conceding that: “He’s a very, very good player, I think the guys that know him in the Irish squad know what a leader he is, how he contributes within the squad."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/1231/1224309674679.html

Sin e, Lawrence Dayglo said the '97 Lions tour was the highlight of his career, putting it ahead of winning the World Cup for England. It's a huge honour and I'm sure plenty of former Lions see their selection as their highest achievement. It means they're the best in their country and better than the players of their three biggest rivals.

I love a bit of provincial banter. But why are you questioning Heaslips commitment to the Irish cause? There's no need for it.

Ha ha - using Leamy against Sin! Priceless!

Feckless Rogue wrote:Sin e, Lawrence Dayglo said the '97 Lions tour was the highlight of his career, putting it ahead of winning the World Cup for England. It's a huge honour and I'm sure plenty of former Lions see their selection as their highest achievement. It means they're the best in their country and better than the players of their three biggest rivals.

I love a bit of provincial banter. But why are you questioning Heaslips commitment to the Irish cause? There's no need for it.

And Dayglo was up his own arse as well. Great captain material.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
All due respects to Best who seems to be a great lad, but I've never heard Best being spoken of in leadership terms in the same way as Johann Muller is (who has replaced Best as the Ulster captain).

...expect maybe by Muller himself: http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/11476.php

or maybe by your auld mucker Leamy:

"In return, Leamy suggests Best is not a bad player, before relenting and conceding that: “He’s a very, very good player, I think the guys that know him in the Irish squad know what a leader he is, how he contributes within the squad."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/1231/1224309674679.html

Best & Leamy are really good buddies. You hardly expect him to say anything else, particularly since Best has lost the Ulster captaincy.

So you think Leamy is wrong when he says the Irish squad know how good a leader he is? You think he is saying that so that Best (an international rugby player, who must be used to criticism and pressure) doesn't get his feelings hurt? Really?

Sin é wrote:

Gibbo : That article and its not so hidden content, are proof-positive, that ROG and Heaslip should never be let near the Irish Captaincy. They are both far too me, me, me.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean.

ROG said that Ireland were too in love with themselves, Heaslip said they were confident, not cocky!

I can think of reasons why ROG should not be captain (mainly I think the outhalf has enough to do and he is a back). As for Heaslip, anyone (having won 2 Heineken cup and a Grand Slam with Ireland) that would say that the highlight of their career was getting selected for the Lions, doesn't deserve to be picked for Ireland let alone captain it. (Note, both O'Driscoll & ROG said winning the Grand Slam, Keith Wood said getting capped for Ireland and he was on a Lions winning team and selected World Player of the Year).

Sin, mo chara, you will never get what I mean man. You'd have to spill the Box of Stats 1st and pretend its a jig-saw puzzle.

ROG let himself down at the RWC. Not in his play, but being a 4-year old when his position was threatened. That, is NOT Captain material.

And Jamie, Bless Im, he's ok for a night out with the lads, and is a great player, but he's about as bright as ROG.

Paulie, BOD and Best, are miles ahead of them as men. And certainly as Captain of our Country.

I dont give a flyin-phkok about the constant having a forward as a Captain codology. Its balls. Sexton will follow Paulie.

You can't move on this site or what you say get's fast-tracked to the Standards and Efficacy Office for approval

'I think he'd make a good Captain'.

Efficacy Efficient Computer voice - Captain means Leadership. Explain Leadship qualities in no less than 10,000 words before approval.

Dayglo was smart and ruthless. Like MJ. Like Back. Like Hill. Like JW. Like Dawson. Like Kay. Like Cohen... Its no wonder England wiped out the NH v SH Divide back then. They had a team full of men. And leaders.

Deccie, are ya listenin Boy? Enable them. Enpower them to take their own decisions on the field. And trust them. Back them. All of them. Dont restrict them.


Im writing a strict letter to Quinny. He'll say it to im.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So you think Leamy is wrong when he says the Irish squad know how good a leader he is? You think he is saying that so that Best (an international rugby player, who must be used to criticism and pressure) doesn't get his feelings hurt? Really?

No, I think Rory Best is well respected in the squad and he puts his head down and does the business. I think everyone in the squad would say nice things about him, but if it came to a vote for the captaincy between himself and POC, POC would be the runaway winner and I would expect Rory's very good pal would vote for POC.

Most players say nice things about their fellow players to the media. Have you ever heard Declan Kidney go on about them, his opponents, etc. etc. ? Its called diplomacy and saying the right thing!

I think we all know and like the idea that Paul is Captain, and is possibly likely to be for some time now. Nobody is questioning that.

SecretFly wrote:I think we all know and like the idea that Paul is Captain, and is possibly likely to be for some time now. Nobody is questioning that.

Well, Johann Muller is saying Best would make a very good Irish captain.


And Gibbo, didn't Dayglo lose the England captaincy over some drugs scandal back in the day?

SecretFly wrote:You can't move on this site or what you say get's fast-tracked to the Standards and Efficacy Office for approval

'I think he'd make a good Captain'.

Efficacy Efficient Computer voice - Captain means Leadership. Explain Leadship qualities in no less than 10,000 words before approval.

One who questions himself before any other in the team and hides it.
One who will not lie down - no matter how bad it is. And by example - he will make his men believe in him. And themsleves.
One will talk nice bollix to SKY TV and roast his players behind closed-doors - if they phhok-up. And then pat them on the back when they really need it.
All men will follow a man like that.

Man. Sounds like our Paulie.

Shoite, Ive come too soon. 10,000 words?


Did I ever tell ye about the Brazillian Hooker with 3 nipples? Couldnt take me eyes off her for a second. Piercing.

Anyway, she...

I wouldn't vote for Best as Irish captain against POC, or anyone against POC for that matter but its nonsence to say that Best is not renouned for his leadership on and off the field.

Beyond POC Best is the obvious candidate and I'd be surprised if he doesn't captain Ireland at some point albeit as a stop gap.

Dayglo lost the England captaincy after claiming to a journalist that rugby players took recreational drugs all the time. Ironically Johnson may never have been captain but for this.

Sin é wrote:Well, Johann Muller is saying Best would make a very good Irish captain.

Well Sin, be thankful then that Johann Miller doesn't have a casting vote.

Anyway, enough of this nonsense for one day. Keith Earls and the Number 13 has become almost a home away from home...but it's time I got relaxed in my real one. I'll see you all back on this thread tomorrow Ciao

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I think we all know and like the idea that Paul is Captain, and is possibly likely to be for some time now. Nobody is questioning that.

Well, Johann Muller is saying Best would make a very good Irish captain.


And Gibbo, didn't Dayglo lose the England captaincy over some drugs scandal back in the day?

He had a joint. And got caught by the Scum that is the Brit tabloid press. So what? He could afford to - in private. Unlike a player like Henson- who'd need a frontal-labotomy to alter his consciousness.

But the Old RFU farts didnt like him and used it to humiliate him. MJ and Dayglo, BOTH captained England to the RWC.

Thing is, you cant just turn natural leadership off. Paulie & BOD won us the SLAM, on the back of their on-field chats. They cant help it.


Leaders are born. You cant manufacture them

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I think we all know and like the idea that Paul is Captain, and is possibly likely to be for some time now. Nobody is questioning that.

Well, Johann Muller is saying Best would make a very good Irish captain.

How dare he venture an opinion like that!

Won't somebody please think of the children?!?!

By the way, Sin - Rory Best has a 100% win record as Ireland captain. What's Paulie's?

Don Alfonso wrote:By the way, Sin - Rory Best has a 100% win record as Ireland captain. What's Paulie's?

I have no idea - don't think he has captained Ireland too often - not against the lesser teams anyway - Cullen seems to get those gigs.

Don!

Phooke rugby for second.

Daaaadddy!







Congrats man. And to Mrs Don.

Sin é wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:By the way, Sin - Rory Best has a 100% win record as Ireland captain. What's Paulie's?

I have no idea - don't think he has captained Ireland too often - not against the lesser teams anyway - Cullen seems to get those gigs.

OK. Blames Leinster Captain and runs lookin for stats to build an argument on.

Sheesh.

Gibbo - just posted in the pub thanking yourself and the other ne'er-do-wells for your kind posts on Saturday. Many thanks. Sometimes, the interweb (or parts of it) can be a really human place.

Sin - you got those stats yet?

Don Alfonso wrote:Gibbo - just posted in the pub thanking yourself and the other ne'er-do-wells for your kind posts on Saturday. Many thanks. Sometimes, the interweb (or parts of it) can be a really human place.

Sin - you got those stats yet?

Why don't you look them up yourself.

By the way congrats on whatever has happened that is good in your life.

Gibson wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I think we all know and like the idea that Paul is Captain, and is possibly likely to be for some time now. Nobody is questioning that.

Well, Johann Muller is saying Best would make a very good Irish captain.


And Gibbo, didn't Dayglo lose the England captaincy over some drugs scandal back in the day?

He had a joint. And got caught by the Scum that is the Brit tabloid press. So what? He could afford to - in private. Unlike a player like Henson- who'd need a frontal-labotomy to alter his consciousness.

But the Old RFU farts didnt like him and used it to humiliate him. MJ and Dayglo, BOTH captained England to the RWC.

Thing is, you cant just turn natural leadership off. Paulie & BOD won us the SLAM, on the back of their on-field chats. They cant help it.


Leaders are born. You cant manufacture them

Wasn't he boasting about it. (Didn't have the cop on to keep it quiet). No wonder England are in the state they are in with regard to the press/public. They think they are untouchable.

Ah Sin - you've made me smile, for two very different reasons, in that post. Thanks, man. New son.

Don, are Ms Alfonso and young Keith Alfonso home yet?

So too was Earls after some initial splutters. He feels he has settled in with the number 13 on his back. No more settling in.

"Ah no, that process is gone, you know, I've been playing there all my life. Obviously, I've played on the wing a couple of times in the last few years, which went against me, playing on the wing and going in to full-back at times.

"So I spoke to Tony McGahan when I came back from the World Cup and said that I wanted to be a 13, I feel more comfortable, I want to be in the mix defensive-wise and get confidence."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/comment-analysis/david-kelly-earls-comfortable-in-his-role-3032205.html

He looked pretty good against Italy to be fair