How would Celtic and Rangers do in the Prem?

This debate has been going around for ages. But whats your thoughts on this?
Will they challenge for the title or a European slot, or will they struggle?
Over to you people........

I've long been a supporter of the Old Firm joining the premier league and believe it would be to the benefit of both Celtic and Rangers and an asset to the Premier League.

However, I think they would both REALLY struggle for a couple of year until the financial benefits of being part of the PL kicked in. I have both Celtic and Rangers fans in my circle of close friends and they all agree.

Look at the income from TV money that they get at the moment, compared to what they would get as part of an expanded Premier League. Give then a couple of years of that sort of income and they would both be contending for Euro places. But the first couple of years would be a struggle. There have been one-off games in recent years where both sides have shown to be able to hold their own against PL sides, but to start with I think they would struggle badly week in, week out

I'm all for it though and would look forward to them competing with the best sides in England once the playing field was levelled out a bit

I actually think that they would struggle in the championship

I'd love to see hothead Neil Lennon up against laconin Ian Holloway. Would be worth it for that alone

Neil Lennon and Joe Jordan would be good too!

Rangers and Celtic would struggle to start with as has been mentioned,

But wth 55K-60K crowds plus the much larger tv and prize money available the income generated would quickly help them gain a foothold.

I mean season wayne rooney spent 180 mns in davie weirs back pocket lol

I think they will struggle but what happens to the rest of the SPL it would kill Scotish football, some of the attendances up there are so small even in the SPL
Dundee Utd Hearts 6,700
St Mirren Rangers 5,500
Inverness CT Motherwell 3,560
If it did happen some teams may well go to the wall

i think they would get mid table

I personally think they'd get relegated. They would walk into that League like Mr Big Shots and get destroyed.

I personally would love to see the back of them. They ruin the Scottish game. Ok, in terms of cash they are a huge asset but in terms of the SPL as a competition. It is awful. Give clubs the opportunity to win the league and the fans would come back. The Ugly Sisters should rot!

I am afraid it is not the old firm that ruin the spl as a competition, it is all 12 spl teams.

There was an opportunity to change the league when restructire discussions were going on, more teams only play each other TWICE this way a defeat for Rangers and Celtic is much more damaging, playing 4 times a season is far to much.

at this rate in 5-10 years time scottish football will be the equivalent of the irish and welsh leagues

I wouldn't be in favour of my club Celtic joing the EPL but I honestly think they would be ok for a couple of years and within 3-5 be genuine contenders for the league due the financial aspect coming into play, I'd also not be surprised if they upped the capacity to 80k

Sadly the PL dont need them, there would be too much trouble.

However if both teams entered the league on a level playing field, they would cope quite easily and within 3-5 years they would be as good as anybody else.

Both clubs have great fanbases but trouble would follow them around - it will never happen, too much of a risk.

Struggle for a couple of years then the cash would come pouring in and they would be in the top four every year imo.

AberdeenSteve wrote:I personally think they'd get relegated. They would walk into that League like Mr Big Shots and get destroyed.

I personally would love to see the back of them. They ruin the Scottish game. Ok, in terms of cash they are a huge asset but in terms of the SPL as a competition. It is awful. Give clubs the opportunity to win the league and the fans would come back. The Ugly Sisters should rot!

The old firm have bank rolled and kept Scottish football afloat for years without us their would be no professional football in Scotland would be third division or juniors standard. Typical non old firm fan so ungrateful and think we are the bad ones have a word with your self mate.

prettyboy1304 wrote:and think we are the bad ones

The thing is, you are. You are the reason that the league is going down to 10 teams which in all honesty is going to destroy Scottish grass roots football and pretty sure you were the reason that an entire planet looked down their noses at our country for the disgrace that ensued between the two Glasgow teams. If that doesn't make you bad then I am struggling.

We keep Scottish Football afloat. FACT
We can draw up to 65000 fans, only Hearts can guarantee 10000. FACT
Can have more fans in away grounds than the home side. FACT
If it wasn't for the old firm their would be no TV deal. FACT
Are not the only club who sings sectarian songs. FACT
Aberdeen, Dundee, Dundee UTD, Hearts and Hibs all sing sectarian songs. Fact
No one cares because they are small clubs. FACT

Steve you cant blame the Old Firm for the league being restructured, its teams that are desperate for their four home Old Firm games that are killing Scottish Football

Personally I think they would cease to be the Old Firm if they did. When the money starts pouring in and both teams are able to look at a better class of players, managers and coaches the whole dynamic will be lost. It would'nt be right to watch a Rangers Chelsea match or a Celtic Man U match if they were not totally on the backfoot. It's good supporting the underdog against the giants. Wouldnt mind gettin a regular crack at teams in the EPL though, good for the clubs and good for Scotlands internationals

Don't agree that it would be good for Scotland internationals we wouldn't have many in our squads if we were in the EPL

Dunno, I'm still niave enough to think that Scottish players would rather play for Scotland. Less glory, but what we get lasts a lifetime

Firstly, under no condition should the Old Firm be 'let' into the Premier League. EVER. If they want English football, that's OK; Swansea and Cardiff are here, so Celtic and Rangers would be fine, however, they should start at rock bottom, Conference should be the maximum height they come into initially. This being the case they'd never actually make the premier league anyways, I don't think.

However, were they to be allowed in the league I think they'd both be relegated within 2 seasons. They have the fanbase, great. But every match is a 200/300/400 mile trip; whilst the other clubs only have to do that twice a year, Celtic and Rangers have to do it 19 times each.

Plus they aren't all that good anyways! Were they closer to other clubs I could see them being mid to lower end of the table, certainly nowhere near the Top 4.

THIS_IS_THE_NEWS wrote:Firstly, under no condition should the Old Firm be 'let' into the Premier League. EVER. If they want English football, that's OK; Swansea and Cardiff are here, so Celtic and Rangers would be fine, however, they should start at rock bottom, Conference should be the maximum height they come into initially. This being the case they'd never actually make the premier league anyways, I don't think.

However, were they to be allowed in the league I think they'd both be relegated within 2 seasons. They have the fanbase, great. But every match is a 200/300/400 mile trip; whilst the other clubs only have to do that twice a year, Celtic and Rangers have to do it 19 times each.

Plus they aren't all that good anyways! Were they closer to other clubs I could see them being mid to lower end of the table, certainly nowhere near the Top 4.

Mate you are clearly spouting nonsense about something you clearly know absolutely nothing about. The old firm will only be allowed in when the Premier League thinks it's a good idea or Sky push for it.
If the old firm started at the conference we wouldn't make the EPL is just nonsense. We are 2 massive clubs finance from ticket sales and merchandise would get us to the EPL on it's own.
In the modern world of luxury trains, coaches and first class plane tickets travelling would not be a problem Spanish and German clubs do it every week.
You are right about 1 thing though we are pretty average but if we had the TV money the EPL bring we would be right up there challenging for titles in 3-5 years not getting relegated in 2. Only Man Utd have a bigger fanbase than either of the old firm in Britain.

Stick to talking about things you have a clue about before you get owned again.

Hobo wrote:I actually think that they would struggle in the championship

Pointless comment Rangers held their own for 180 minutes against Man Utd

AberdeenSteve wrote:I personally think they'd get relegated. They would walk into that League like Mr Big Shots and get destroyed.

I personally would love to see the back of them. They ruin the Scottish game. Ok, in terms of cash they are a huge asset but in terms of the SPL as a competition. It is awful. Give clubs the opportunity to win the league and the fans would come back. The Ugly Sisters should rot!

Steve if we left no-one would watch because no-one would care. No TV coverage and no TV cash. No old firm away fans filling your small rotten stadiums. If we left the rest would rot. You would all end up at junior standard most of the players at the better sides in Scotland are only their so they can come and play against the big 2

Ahhhh, the OF fans living on their high horses. Junior level players? Yet there are times we can beat you. Says a lot about the standard of your guys!

If you play against rudey poo often enough you will drop down to their level. The players we have aren't a great standard but much better than what the rest have. The points difference at the end of the season will show this to be true.

Bloody awful, the speed of the Prem is too much, there be knackered by January. I'll give it 13th place top's.

Mate SPL gets fixture pile ups aswell. We moan about them but we can deal with them

The money is the big thing current squads would probably just have enough to stay up. With the TV money we are a different prospects. Bigger crowds that can only be matched by Man Utd and Arsenal. Take Man City and Chelsea out of the equasion because they have sugar daddies we would be challenging at the top for Champions League places year in and year out.

Would take a couple of years to stabilise and push on about 5 years before we would be really competitive.

prettyboykev wrote:

Hobo wrote:I actually think that they would struggle in the championship

Pointless comment Rangers held their own for 180 minutes against Man Utd

Playing 10men behind the ball and trying to hoof it to a lone Kenny Miller isn't a tactic that will win you many Premier League Championships.

Rangers and Celtic would finish midtable at best.

I would have thought mid-table, maybe top half, but not challenging for Europe IMO. Yes they can match some good teams over a couple of legs in the CL, but doing so the whole way through the season is much much harder. Can't see them finishing above any of Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Spurs, Liverpool and maybe Everton too.

We were talking about this on the chat box recently.

Personally, I think Rangers and Celtic would struggle against most League 1 sides also if they were to join the English Leagues then they should start from the bottom and make their way up. If they were to be put straight into the prem then I honestly believe they'd be lucky to avoid relegation as the speed, power and precision of the prem teams would be too much for them.

Also, whilst they can match some of the top teams in Europe from time to time I would see them getting slaughtered by the mid table teams such as Stoke, Fulham and Bolton.

Sorry Old Firm fans, but you're Lower Championship at best imo!

I think it depends on the time frame we are talking about.

Celtic and Rangers would probably struggle in the short term. As others have said, it is one thing matching a team over 2 leagues, but playing at that level consistantly would be a tall task. The thing is, that I think Celtic and Rangers would be the type of clubs that could draw huge investment if they were in a better league.

We are basing the comparison on a couple of teams from a team with almost no investment against teams that can splash millions each year. Even the lower level teams in the EPL could outbid the Old Firm at the moment. Given a level playing field with similar investments and pulling power then they would do very well.

David Tails wrote:I think it depends on the time frame we are talking about.

Celtic and Rangers would probably struggle in the short term. As others have said, it is one thing matching a team over 2 leagues, but playing at that level consistantly would be a tall task. The thing is, that I think Celtic and Rangers would be the type of clubs that could draw huge investment if they were in a better league.

We are basing the comparison on a couple of teams from a team with almost no investment against teams that can splash millions each year. Even the lower level teams in the EPL could outbid the Old Firm at the moment. Given a level playing field with similar investments and pulling power then they would do very well.

Matching them over 2 leagues?

The financial side is the key reason as to why the Old Firm would fail to compete in the Premier League, Norwich are getting £40million and are apparently prepared to use it all, I highly doubt even with the new investment Rangers will be spending anywhere near as much as that figure.

Yeah, that should say legs. Apologies.

Initially they would struggle, the current squads they have are not of the quality of a struggling Premiership team, yes Rangers gave Man Utd a run for their money in the Champions League but that’s basically a cup game, Crawley gave Utd a hard time but they could not compete over the course of a season and it should not be judged based on 90 or 180 minutes.
After that? The increase in revenue and fanbase from appearing much more as a global product will level the playing field, the history of the teams and lure of playing for them will improve their standing and then I believe that then they could begin to challenge for honours. They would still need a next step of investment though to be able to compete with the fantasy football teams of City & Chelsea and the global brand of Utd.
My one issue though is that of potential increased crowd violence. I just cannot see that given the current rise in crowd trouble in Scotland that they would be welcomed to join the Premier League. I believe that it would create a re-emergence of the troubles that blighted the game in the 70s as hooligans use it as an excuse to flare up English/Scottish rivalries.

They wouldn't be good enough. Just look at some of their best players, who used to be average championship players. Relegation IMO.

scfc1992 wrote:They wouldn't be good enough. Just look at some of their best players, who used to be average championship players. Relegation IMO.

Nice sweeping generalisation of the players.

Charlie Adam couldn't get a game for Rangers and is now a star man for Blackpool and heavily linked with Liverpool/Tottenham. McFadden was a good player for Motherwell and did well at first with Everton before tailling off. Barry Ferguson was a good player for Rangers and has done a great job for Birmigham. Steven Fletcher was a good player for Hibs and has done well with Burnley and Wolves.

You can't just write them off as "their players wouldn't cut it". There are players that could easily make it.

Gregers wrote:We were talking about this on the chat box recently.

Personally, I think Rangers and Celtic would struggle against most League 1 sides also if they were to join the English Leagues then they should start from the bottom and make their way up. If they were to be put straight into the prem then I honestly believe they'd be lucky to avoid relegation as the speed, power and precision of the prem teams would be too much for them.

Also, whilst they can match some of the top teams in Europe from time to time I would see them getting slaughtered by the mid table teams such as Stoke, Fulham and Bolton.

Sorry Old Firm fans, but you're Lower Championship at best imo!

you obviously don't watch much Scottish football. We might not be great but this is utter garbage.

For me I would say they would be mid-lower premier league, top players in the league often go into the championsip and vice versa.

Both middle table prem teams.With a possibilty of challenging for Europe.

I think the other SPL sides would struggle in the Championship tbh though.

Liam_Main wrote:Both middle table prem teams.With a possibilty of challenging for Europe.

I think the other SPL sides would struggle in the Championship tbh though.

The bttom half of the SPL are league 2 class. The top 6 apart from the old firm would stuggle in the championship.

prettyboykev wrote:

THIS_IS_THE_NEWS wrote:Firstly, under no condition should the Old Firm be 'let' into the Premier League. EVER. If they want English football, that's OK; Swansea and Cardiff are here, so Celtic and Rangers would be fine, however, they should start at rock bottom, Conference should be the maximum height they come into initially. This being the case they'd never actually make the premier league anyways, I don't think.

However, were they to be allowed in the league I think they'd both be relegated within 2 seasons. They have the fanbase, great. But every match is a 200/300/400 mile trip; whilst the other clubs only have to do that twice a year, Celtic and Rangers have to do it 19 times each.

Plus they aren't all that good anyways! Were they closer to other clubs I could see them being mid to lower end of the table, certainly nowhere near the Top 4.

Mate you are clearly spouting nonsense about something you clearly know absolutely nothing about. The old firm will only be allowed in when the Premier League thinks it's a good idea or Sky push for it.
If the old firm started at the conference we wouldn't make the EPL is just nonsense. We are 2 massive clubs finance from ticket sales and merchandise would get us to the EPL on it's own.
In the modern world of luxury trains, coaches and first class plane tickets travelling would not be a problem Spanish and German clubs do it every week.
You are right about 1 thing though we are pretty average but if we had the TV money the EPL bring we would be right up there challenging for titles in 3-5 years not getting relegated in 2. Only Man Utd have a bigger fanbase than either of the old firm in Britain.

Stick to talking about things you have a clue about before you get owned again.

Once we take the whole 'ur owned n00b lol rofl you talk nonsense' talk out out of your argument there's rather little left, but for the sake of argument:

- If the Scottish sides start in the conference you are kissing goodbye to ANY TV money and in all liklihood a fair whack of your 'almighty' fanbases; after all, as with any successful club going down the pan quite a lot of the glory boys will up sticks and find someone else to support, so kiss the merchandise sales goodbye. Suddenly the money at the clubs, not brilliant already, will drain out and of course your best players will run the minute they land in the conference. Just as well, because if they don't, the wages will cripple the now far poorer clubs. This wouldn't be Juventus style relegation with only one year out of the limelight, this is a 4 year draining slog at the very best.
- Travel wise the trick with Spanish and German clubs is that they all have to do that pretty much every week. The difference with Celtic and Rangers is that their players will spend all the season doing the travelling, whereas the other sides will spend only 1/2 games doing so. Clearly the Scottish teams place themselves at a disadvantage by doing that. Of course, if you start in the conference then you won't be affording any luxury anyways.
- The TV money will offer you the same as all the other clubs who get into the league, before getting relegated. I honestly don't see your point at all with that one. Wigan have had a few years with TV money now, and they're not world class are they?
- If we're going to be really ambitious and say the Old Firm finish mid table (!!!), then your star players will likely leave anyways, because rather than gaining anything, they've suddenly lost one of the highlights of being an Old Firm player; guaranteed european football.

Even Jean Luc-Picard knows it's a doomed move.

Stealth no offence mate but you talk utter pish. Man Utdaside their are no bigger clubs in Britain that Celtic and Rangers. They have very big hardcore fanbases who have seen their club through dark days.

In the conference all the way to Championship the money from the fans would be enough to secure promotions.

if they were dropped into the Premier league they would have the TV money which would enable them to keep their better players and improve their squad.

Comparing Wigan to the Old Firm proves you obviously know nothing about the Old Firm.

I am not a fan of the Of and would dearly love to see them parachate into England and leave behind a smaller more competitive and ultimately more sucessful SPL.

Saying that the rubbish spouted on hear by some England fans shows only an abundance of ignorance.
If the OF started in the EPL next season they would comfortably hold mid table and would be top six within 5 years.
They have a fan base bigger than the likes of Liverpool and Spurs hence thier 60,000 capacity grounds which are generally full even against the lesser SPL teams.

I cant beleive that clown tried to compare Wigan and the Old Firm

i dont think the old firm and celtic in particular realise how hated they are in england.what with their worship of people that blew innocents up in pubs.you aren't ever going to get into english football..ever..just one question,why did the ira send neil lennon a letter bomb...lol

at least 15 PL teams have better squads tha the old firm, FACT

At least 20 teams earn 32 million in TV and prize money a year, FACT

This argument is simple, just pick them up and place them in with current squads. They fight to survive relegation.

After 5 seasons with the same financial opportunities much higher higher,

Agreed Nay.

Once the relative teams debts are cleared and they got the opportunity to renegotiate all of their commercial contracts, they would be in the top half after about 3 years of bedding in