How would Celtic and Rangers do in the Prem?

First topic message reminder :

This debate has been going around for ages. But whats your thoughts on this?
Will they challenge for the title or a European slot, or will they struggle?
Over to you people........

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:What a load of nonsense, I can't speak for Rangers but Celtic are far superior than 'just about Championship level' and saying any different is just ignorant

I suggest if you want to comment on the standard of Celtic you update your knowledge of the team and it's players before you make an informed decision, blase replies make people look ridiculous

It's not ignorant that's the thing, the current Celtic team is simply not good enough to compete in the premier league, may avoid relegation but they would be down there scraping it out.

I mentioned Stoke earlier as an example. I don't see a gulf in class between the two squads. Do you? If yes, in which areas are they significantly stronger?

Gaffer.

I KNOW Celtic are the best of a really bad lot of Scottish rubbish right now. But. To Define the Decline. I remember being with Dutch mates, on the Utrecht terraces last year. Nightmare. I got patronising cuddles. And Utrecht are rubbish.

Scottish club-soccer, is a spent-force.

The English teams. With about 40 or 50 English players in the whole Prem. Even they are laughing at this sheet. And, the expensive foreigners - are not shaking hands. Who cares?

I think Stoke have a far better defensive unit than Celtic which is perfect for there style of play, Etherington and Pennant would walk into the current Celtic side as would Crouch most probably. QPR in 16th have quality all over the field which Celtic lack, they do well in the SPL but with there current team they would really struggle especially having to face good teams one after another compared to constant dross.

Etherington and Pennant would walk into the Celtic team? Sorry but I disagree. Young James Forrest on our wing was named as one of the most promising young players in the world by FIFA, and is courting attention from Spurs. Similarly, Scott Brown is a Scotland international. We also have guys like Joe Ledley, who turned down Stoke and Roma to join us, in Midfield. We have been a bit shaky in defense, but we've struggled all season to name the same back four each week due to injuries. I'd say overall we are on par with the Stokes of the premier league. We wouldn't challenge the big boys, but a top ten finish wouldn't be beyond us, most teams would struggle to beat us at Parkhead.

Golden. Get real man. It all dived when King Hendrik and O Neill left. Downward-spiral and continuing downwards - fast. It' s so sad. And. If Rangers fold It's all they have left. The rest of the soccerball World has passed them by. Its over man.

Maybe deserting your fellow Scotsmen, to play in an English League would be the financially prudent choice. But. Could you live with that big man? Sell your country's soccer-soul to the Sassanach shillin?

Actually, the English have no real influence in it anymore. SKY run the TV show now. Control it all TV wise. And, the game itself, is not for the English to control anymore. That' s now a fallacy. Been proven at FIFA level. Thats long-gone. Its all Yank, South-American & Arab controlled now. So. Carry on. Join de party and leave fellow-Scots in the lurch. That will help.

Jinky, would turn them inside-out - in his grave.

Gibson wrote:Gaffer.

I KNOW Celtic are the best of a really bad lot of Scottish shoite right now. But. To Define the Decline. I remember being with Dutch mates, on the Utrecht terraces last year. Nightmare. I got patronising cuddles. And Utrecht are shoite.

Scottish club-soccer, is a spent-force.

The English teams. With about 40 or 50 English players in the whole Prem. Even they are laughing at this sheet. And, the expensive foreigners - are not shaking hands. Who gives a flyin-schitt? Wendyball is phhoked now.

I'm sorry but if youe basing your opinion on the shambles that was Utrecht 18 months ago then it only goes to re-affirm my belief that you need to update yourknowledge on Celtic, if you're going to judge them on a European game then why not on their last European game away to Udinese who were top of Seria A at the time?

That wouldn't fit in with the mind-set that they are garbage though would it?

Don't let the facts get in the way of a right good rant of pish tho'

And where exactly are Celtic now in Europe?

Sorry man, I've loved the Tic since the 60's. But, get real.

They are now - European fodder. I support AZ Alkmaar btw. We'd EAT ye.

Celtic are only seemingly going forward in Scotland, because Rangers are near dead.

Not good. In fact, its near critical for Scottish clubs. And. You know it too.

Stop dreaming big man. Love the club, but embrace European reality.

Celtic, are 3rd-level now, in the EUFA Cup. Never mind the CL.

So sad. Its a long way from there to now. Hendrik and MON brought us nearer.. But... Its gone bud. Its gone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7ON3mMMFSs&feature=related

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I think Stoke have a far better defensive unit than Celtic which is perfect for there style of play, Etherington and Pennant would walk into the current Celtic side as would Crouch most probably. QPR in 16th have quality all over the field which Celtic lack, they do well in the SPL but with there current team they would really struggle especially having to face good teams one after another compared to constant dross.

Again this just goes to show your complete ignorance towards Celtic when you think those players would 'walk into the Celtic team'

James Forrest is the most exciting young talent in the country, he is.a winger who scores goals too, Spurs, Liverpool and Man Utd have all been keeping tabs on him and the bidding will start at £10m although the lad himself said he would rather stay another couple of years, are Pennant and Ethrington rated in that bracket or being watched by those clubs? We both know the answer to that, and that's why blindly naming players just for the sake of it is ignorant

Our midfield would stand up to 80% of the Premiership and I'd be confident of it coming out on top

James Forrest Scott Brown Beram Kayal Joe Ledley Ki Sung-Yeung Victor Wanyama and Kris Commons

Take any four of that 7 and it beats Stokes midfield hands down

As for Peter Crouch, well I prefer Celtic to play fast high pressing pacy football, Crouch while always having been a good goalscorer would change our style dramaticallty, we'd no doubt play the long diagonals into his chest and bypass the strongest part of our team, no thanks, anyway, Gary Hooper is sensational and definitely a future England Internationalist, although I believe he'll need to wait until he moves to the Premiership before that happens

As for Stokes defence, I wouldn't take Ryan Shawcross if he paid us to play

Lads. Im Irish. Lived most of me life awa. What's the answer for Scottish club futball then? Give me some. The 2 key teams, the ones the rest feed off, to survive - joining a pseudo-English league, would kill it off. Maybe it's best. But. Is that what ye really want, for Scottish club-football?

THINK.

Gibson wrote:And where exactly are Celtic now in Europe?

Sorry man, I've loved the Tic since the 60's. But, get real.

They are now - European fodder. I support AZ Alkmaar btw. We'd EAT ye.

Celtic are only seemingly going forward in Scotland, because Rangers are near dead.

Not good. In fact, its near critical for Scottish clubs. And. You know it too.

Stop dreaming big man. Love the club, but embrace European reality.

Celtic, are 3rd-level now, in the EUFA Cup. Never mind the CL.

So sad. Its a long way from here to now. Hendrik and MON brought us nearer.. But... Its gone bud. Its gone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7ON3mMMFSs&feature=related

most of that is just absolute nonsense, I was going to give you a detailed reply why it's nonsense but I get the impression your know it is and your rnjoying the Wind Up

Gibson wrote:Lads. Im Irish. Lived most of me life awa. What's the answer for Scottish club futball then? Give me some. The 2 key teams, the ones the rest feed off, to survive - joining a pseudo-English league, would kill it off. Maybe it's best. But. Is that what ye really want, for Scottish club-football?

THINK.

I don't want Celtic to join the EPL, never have and never will

the-gaffer wrote:

Gibson wrote:And where exactly are Celtic now in Europe?

Sorry man, I've loved the Tic since the 60's. But, get real.

They are now - European fodder. I support AZ Alkmaar btw. We'd EAT ye.

Celtic are only seemingly going forward in Scotland, because Rangers are near dead.

Not good. In fact, its near critical for Scottish clubs. And. You know it too.

Stop dreaming big man. Love the club, but embrace European reality.

Celtic, are 3rd-level now, in the EUFA Cup. Never mind the CL.

So sad. Its a long way from here to now. Hendrik and MON brought us nearer.. But... Its gone bud. Its gone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7ON3mMMFSs&feature=related

most of that is just absolute nonsense, I was going to give you a detailed reply why it's nonsense but I get the impression your know it is and your rnjoying the Wind Up

Gaffer. Big respect. I love yer blind-loyalty. Its admirable. Its what makes Celtic - Celtic. I wish I was on a WUM. But Im not.

I played football (GAA & Soccer) - at decent level. Watched it, played it and supported it all over the World. But now - its gone softer than girlie bitch-vollieball. And not near as sexshy. Thats where Im coming from. Soccer is dying.

Blatter will run it into the ground. And take the pay-check.

Celtic dont even exist in European soccer anymore. That's done. Look out for the Latvians.

The problems in soccer, run far deeper than a 3rd-rate Scottish side. Really. British Clubs are in serious financial trouble. Specially Man U. Rangers are in Admin. Other clubs are on the edge.

Someone should write a reality article. Instead of bleating on about their own teams. If they still love the Game that is.

I dont. I think its pish. Globally.

But. I love Dutch football. WE, will win Euro 2012 and the next WC. Its time.

The Eredivise is a mess too, it's filled with crap teams and gives the impression that guys like Dirk Kuyt, Alfonso Alves and Luis Suarez are top goalscorers and they subsequently fail to deliver when they move to better leagues, the Dutch league is broke too, the lack of quality in the Eredivise is clear for all to see, the standard has declined big time

As for your blind loyalty comment, that just proves your a WUM I'm afraid, if there is one thing I'm not and that's a happy clapper, when things ain't good I speak up, however wheb things are on the up I like to give it time to grow, you have no idea about Celtic though, your entire opinion is based on the shambles in Utrecht 18 months ago and that's why it's difficult to take your opinion of Celtic seriously, maybe if you want to seriously discuss the club you can catch up on what they've done and how far they have come iin the last 18 months, if not then it's prettry pointless trying to discuss then to me saying the same old thing that is clearly inaccurate, the only reason it seems you keep saying the same old thing is to be a WUM

Calling Celtic a 3rd rate Scottish club shows you up for what you are, what is a first rate Scottish club then, you have absolutely no clue about anything to do with Celtic and making idiotic comments like that and expecting a nicey nicey response is the height of ignorance

As for not existing in European football anymore, ask Udinese, I doubt any Dutch team would beat them

AZ are the skidmark of Dutch 'Soccerroundball' and a nonentity in World Football

Gaffer. I apologise profusely. Fair Game. I didnt mean to call Celtic a 3rd-rate Scottish side. I actually meant, a 3rd-rate, 2nd-level, failed - European side.

Sorry man. I get carried away sometimes.

4 X Dutch sides, up v billionaire clubs like Man U & Man C. Also involved, on a lesser basis are: Undinese, Schalke, Athletico, Valencia, Porto, et al.

My bet is, there will be Dutch side in the Final.

Gibbo mate, you're a good man but i have to pull you up. As you know i dont live far from you but i have to pull you out on the eredivisie in comparision to the SPL.

The eredivisie is in a shambles and young Dutch talent is fleeing by the droves to look for decent clubs. The standard in the eredivisie is no better than in the SPL.

How many of the Dutch side actually ply their trade in Holland and the eredivisie? Its mainly Spanish, Bundesliga and EPL so using the eredivisie as a comparison is not right. They are also falling by the wayside in Europe, with the exception of this year in the UEFA cup, so are in no better state than the SPL.

Anyway, back to the original topic. I believe that both Celtic and Rangers would be competitive in the Premier league, not challenging for the title but competetive. The thing that some people forget is that the SPL is not that an a competition to attract big stars so if either team went to the PL they could attract some big stars, being that they are big clubs with a rich history, and be very competitive within a year or two.

the-gaffer wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I think Stoke have a far better defensive unit than Celtic which is perfect for there style of play, Etherington and Pennant would walk into the current Celtic side as would Crouch most probably. QPR in 16th have quality all over the field which Celtic lack, they do well in the SPL but with there current team they would really struggle especially having to face good teams one after another compared to constant dross.

Again this just goes to show your complete ignorance towards Celtic when you think those players would 'walk into the Celtic team'

James Forrest is the most exciting young talent in the country, he is.a winger who scores goals too, Spurs, Liverpool and Man Utd have all been keeping tabs on him and the bidding will start at £10m although the lad himself said he would rather stay another couple of years, are Pennant and Ethrington rated in that bracket or being watched by those clubs? We both know the answer to that, and that's why blindly naming players just for the sake of it is ignorant

Our midfield would stand up to 80% of the Premiership and I'd be confident of it coming out on top

James Forrest Scott Brown Beram Kayal Joe Ledley Ki Sung-Yeung Victor Wanyama and Kris Commons

Take any four of that 7 and it beats Stokes midfield hands down

As for Peter Crouch, well I prefer Celtic to play fast high pressing pacy football, Crouch while always having been a good goalscorer would change our style dramaticallty, we'd no doubt play the long diagonals into his chest and bypass the strongest part of our team, no thanks, anyway, Gary Hooper is sensational and definitely a future England Internationalist, although I believe he'll need to wait until he moves to the Premiership before that happens

As for Stokes defence, I wouldn't take Ryan Shawcross if he paid us to play

Sorry you're showing your complete bias there and talking absolute, as i've its not ignorace but acceptance that Celtic aren't that good, Shawcross walks into your defence without breaking sweat, showing your ignorance saying otherwise. See two can play at that game, it's easy.

Just one more thing. On the Shear v Larsson debate. I do not like to compare the players as they have both been excellent at club and country level but some of the things written about Larsson is a bit poor. People should not forget his records at Feijenoord, Celtic and for Sweden. Nor should they forget that World class sides like Barcellona and ManU wanted him when he was even in his declining years so he cant have been that bad a player.

I hold both Shearer and Larsson in the highest regard for what they have done and the loyalty they showed to thier clubs when they could have both easily gone to bigger clubs for much more prestige and money.

Ghostly
What about Ricardo Fuller now then?

6oldenbhoy wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:On the Larsson/Shearer debate.

Clearly the more skill and finesse player was Larsson. That isn't even up for debate as far as i'm concerned. Deadly finishing is close but i'd have to go far Shearer, afterall Alan is far ahead in all time PL goals to the 2nd top scorer yet Larsson was passed by Burke

Also I can't see local Celtic fans paying for too many away games especially when they have to go to London and London teams going to Celtic Park aswell.

Celtic would bring one of the largest, if not the largest, away support in the league. It would be a near enough certainty that they would sell out the away end each game.

Like they do now?

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, Celtic have a decent following when playing a rival, but the biggest in the league. Nope.

Its all about surviving the first season. Look at the sides that have been promoted form the Championship and have remained up. Hull, Wigan, Stoke city. Looks like Norwich and Swansea are going to stay up too (finger crossed) If the old firm stay up, they'll get the sky money and be able to buy qaulity players to help the clubs reamin in the PL. I agree with both clubs away following. They will sell their allocation no problem for every game imo, its just the "bagage" ie the sectaranism etc, that the two sets of fans bring that could cause problems in some grounds.

When people put FACT after posts I always imagine them as barely capable of tieing thier shoelaces.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I think Stoke have a far better defensive unit than Celtic which is perfect for there style of play, Etherington and Pennant would walk into the current Celtic side as would Crouch most probably. QPR in 16th have quality all over the field which Celtic lack, they do well in the SPL but with there current team they would really struggle especially having to face good teams one after another compared to constant dross.

Again this just goes to show your complete ignorance towards Celtic when you think those players would 'walk into the Celtic team'

James Forrest is the most exciting young talent in the country, he is.a winger who scores goals too, Spurs, Liverpool and Man Utd have all been keeping tabs on him and the bidding will start at £10m although the lad himself said he would rather stay another couple of years, are Pennant and Ethrington rated in that bracket or being watched by those clubs? We both know the answer to that, and that's why blindly naming players just for the sake of it is ignorant

Our midfield would stand up to 80% of the Premiership and I'd be confident of it coming out on top

James Forrest Scott Brown Beram Kayal Joe Ledley Ki Sung-Yeung Victor Wanyama and Kris Commons

Take any four of that 7 and it beats Stokes midfield hands down

As for Peter Crouch, well I prefer Celtic to play fast high pressing pacy football, Crouch while always having been a good goalscorer would change our style dramaticallty, we'd no doubt play the long diagonals into his chest and bypass the strongest part of our team, no thanks, anyway, Gary Hooper is sensational and definitely a future England Internationalist, although I believe he'll need to wait until he moves to the Premiership before that happens

As for Stokes defence, I wouldn't take Ryan Shawcross if he paid us to play

Sorry you're showing your complete bias there and talking absolute, as i've its not ignorace but acceptance that Celtic aren't that good, Shawcross walks into your defence without breaking sweat, showing your ignorance saying otherwise. See two can play at that game, it's easy.

That's laughable but I get it when someone is so used to the hysteria of the Premiership, Shawcross is a hammer thrower, he breaks more legs than beeds of sweat but he's still a hammer thrower on a par witj the Dave Wheater's of this World, we chased Gary Caldwell and Stephen McManus as soon as we could and Shawcross falls into that catagory, being big and physical isn't the bell all and end all, his positional sense is an absolute shambles and his organisational skills are extremely poor, why do you think a better team than Stoke haven't snapped up such a talent?

Just a thought, who would step aside in the EPL to allow either one or both of them in?

Can't imagine teams from the Championship would be prepared to give up their promotion slots to allow Rangers or Celtic to be fast tracked.

Perhaps like Gretna, what happened to them?, they should start at the bottom and work there way up.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Norfolk and Good##Suffolk and Watt

Some of the dead weights who can barely raise 15000 fans to watch thier games.

At last the long term plan for Clyde to dominate Glasgow football is coming in to place....just need to sort out Celtic now...

Nor should they forget that World class sides like Barcellona and ManU wanted him when he was even in his declining years so he cant have been that bad a player.

He wasn't exactly an expensive risk for those 2 clubs though was he?

JM
You mean like Henry going back to Arsenal.
Larsson went straight into both teams first eleven.
Even after a year playing in Sweden.

I can sum up this argument pretty easily.

Celtic fans think club would survive without a hint of trouble and would challenge for the league within a couple of years. All others fans disagree and think it would be a lot harder.

Celtic fans think Larsson is teh best ever. All other fans realise this is complete and utter nonsense.

johnson2 wrote:Celtic fans think Larsson is teh best ever. All other fans realise this is complete and utter nonsense.

That in itself is utter nonsense. I wouldn't say that Larsson was the best ever. Best Celtic player ever perhaps, but best ever overall? No.

He was an undoubted talent. He would have walked in to most teams starting 11's and scored with ease. That part is not open for debate.

You mean like Henry going back to Arsenal.

Thierry cost Barca 20 million pounds though, pretty pointless of you to bring him up.

He would have walked in to most teams starting 11's and scored with ease.

Scoring the SPL doesn't compare with scoring in the top 4 Euro leagues.

Celtic Warrior wrote:

johnson2 wrote:Celtic fans think Larsson is teh best ever. All other fans realise this is complete and utter nonsense.

That in itself is utter nonsense. I wouldn't say that Larsson was the best ever. Best Celtic player ever perhaps, but best ever overall? No.

He was an undoubted talent. He would have walked in to most teams starting 11's and scored with ease. That part is not open for debate.

Guess his lack of ambition to play at the best clubs will go against him. Scoring in the SPL against teams which would struggle in the third tier of English football is not the mark of a great striker.

I dread to think what an Henry type player would do in that league.

This "how good was Larrson " debate is a bit futile. How good would Pele have been if he hadn't stayed in Brazil and played in Europe? We will never know. Personally, I think if Larrson had spent his prime years at a top club with better coaching and better players around him he would have become an even better player and a bigger success than he was.

johnson2 wrote:

Celtic Warrior wrote:

johnson2 wrote:Celtic fans think Larsson is teh best ever. All other fans realise this is complete and utter nonsense.

That in itself is utter nonsense. I wouldn't say that Larsson was the best ever. Best Celtic player ever perhaps, but best ever overall? No.

He was an undoubted talent. He would have walked in to most teams starting 11's and scored with ease. That part is not open for debate.

Guess his lack of ambition to play at the best clubs will go against him. Scoring in the SPL against teams which would struggle in the third tier of English football is not the mark of a great striker.

I dread to think what an Henry type player would do in that league.

That's a bit of a nonsense statement to be honest with absolutely no logic to it what so ever, Henry failed in Italy but blossomed at Arsenal in the EPL, does that make Seria better than the EPL? Same with Shevchenko and Crespo, both scored for fun in Italy but didn't do it in England, what about Diego Forlan? Useless at Utd but was a revelation In LaLiga

Player's find the right clubs for them personally, Henrik Larsson will always be tainted with the arrogant view that he didn't do it in the top leagues but ever level he played he was a success, how many footballers have scored in 3 seperate World Cups? He scored in 3 Euro's, the Champions League, Uefa Cup and won MotM in the two European finals he contested, one of them he was only on the field for 20 minutes

Ronaldinho was gutted when he decided to leave Barca and got the big farewell reseved for the better players, Thierry Henry's statement about Larsson after he turned the 06 CL final said it all

In 2006 many people believed that Ronaldinho was the best player in the World

This is what he said about Henrik Larsson
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Football%3A+Ronnie%3A+Barca+pal+Larsson+is+my+idol%3B+Exclusive.-a0144951096

What with Samaras up front!!!.....no I'd say they wouldn't make the top 10 Celtic...Haven't the resources to or the Management quality to live with the top 7......Be alongside the Everton's of this World........

As for Rangers well they haven't got any money so they'd be looking at the championship.....

Have to remember that teams like Inverness, Motherwell get the same gates as teams like Chesterfield!!!!!

Like Utd playing Accrington every week..

the-gaffer wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:

Thomond wrote:The best LOI players are better than the Scottish fellas I would think. Shamrock Rovers would give Celtic a very good game and probably beat them. Let's remember who got to the Europa League group stages on merit.

In fairness, his comment was no more ridiculous than your statement that the OF teams of '98-'02 were as good if not better than anything in the EPL at the same time. United won the TREBLE for god's sake!! When was the last time Celtic or Rangers won anything outside their lopsided domestic competitions?? English sides have reached more Champions League finals in the last 15 yrs than Scottish sides have even got out the group stages!

The Celtic team between 2000 and 2004 would have been more than a match for any English club and the two years before it Rangers had a team that would have matched anyone other than United

Those are the kind of things that make me believe that Celtic could easily have lived with the best in the premiership during Martin O'Neills time at Celtic while Larsson was there

You talk such incredible tosh it's unbelievable, you're blinded by your own ignorance. I'll ask again and make it clearer, if they were so good, WHY DIDN'T THEY WIN ANYTHING??????

The Champions League gives us the perfect barometer of how the top clubs perform and achieve, so let's have a look:

97/98
Celtic - no show
Rangers - knocked out in qualifiers
Best EPL club - Man Utd - knocked out in QF on away goals

98/99
Celtic - knocked out in qualifiers
Rangers - no show
Best EPL club - Man Utd - CHAMPIONS

99/00
Celtic - no show
Rangers - knocked out in first group stage
Best EPL club - Man Utd & Chelsea - both knocked out in QF

00/01
Celtic - no show
Rangers - knocked out in first group stage
Best EPL club - Leeds - knocked out in SF (Mancheser & Arsenal made QF)

01/02
Celtic - knocked out in first group stage
Rangers - knocked out in qualfiers
Best EPL club - Man Utd - knocked out in SF on away goals

02/03
Celtic - knocked out in qualifiers
Rangers - no show
Best EPL club - Man Utd - knocked out in QF

03/04
Celtic - knocked out in group stage
Rangers - knocked out in group stage (NB: United topped the group on 15 points, Rangers took the wooden spoon on 4 points)
Best EPL club - Chelsea - knocked out in SF

04/05
Celtic - knocked out in group stage
Rangers - knocked out in qualifiers
Best EPL club - Liverpool - CHAMPIONS

So in short, over the time period you specified, the OF were not even competitive on any level with the EPL or any of the top European leagues!!

An interesting stat from the recent Deloitte Football survey which covers the most recent 5 seasons and UEFA/Europa as well as Champs League looks at how many Quarter-Finalists each country has provided:

England - 20
Spain - 14
Germany - 13
Italy - 7
Portugal - 7
Holland - 5
France - 4
Ukraine - 4
Russia - 3
Belgium - 1
Scotland - 1
Turkey - 1

So there you have it. In your specified 'golden period' the OF were rubbish and in the past 5 years they are on a par with the Belgian and Turkish leagues.

To answer the 'Larsson question', I think he was an excellent player that massively under-achieved by staying in Scotland. As a United fan I remember him fondly and think he could've performed at the top level in any of the top 5 leagues in Europe when in his prime.

Samaras isn't our forward. The guy is absolutely hopeless as a striker and splits the support, he is a decent wide left man though but he's never a striker

Finance and 'Managment Quality' really can't be considered because both would likely rocket dramatically if they were privvy to the SKY money and everything else that comes with it the EPL clubs get

He was a striker at City...so i wonder why a guy with two left feet is out wide!!!

I just can't see you matching the top 6......After all you lack the "Name" to attract the best and can't bid with the best either..

Whilst you are a "big club" you haven't the gravitas of a Liverpool, Utd, City, Arsenal...Chelsea..

and most of all...haven't the WAGE structure....

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle here.

Other fans underrate celtics squad, they would be unlikely to face relegation.

Celtic fans grossly over estimate the financial benefits of being in the premier league - yes you would get £30million a year extra minimum but for example even if you added all the new tv money your wage bill would still be behind the likes of Tottenham and Aston Villa. Never mind any potential transfer fees. Celtic would also not get anywhere near europe for a long time.

Another interesting fact is that Celtic have more turnover than the likes of porto but the difference in achievement is staggering.

As always the truth is somewhere in the grey.

I am at a loss for words at what has been written about Larsson by so called 'football fans' on here. If you wre true football fans then you would have some respect as to his achievements. He could have left Celtic much earlier and played for some huge clubs (yes there were many bids) but chose to be loyal to Celtic.

His international record playing in the biggest tournements also show that he was a very good player.

Its really sad when certain football fans let pure hatred cloud their vision of what was once a very good footballer. It really beggers belief.

Ent. Good post

I for one dont over estimate Celtics squad, it is not a squad that will challenge for the titel. At best it would currently be mid table. That said, if Celtic were to move to the PL and survive a year or two, they would certainly be able to attact some big named players because it is a big club, it is a famous club and it is a club rich in history so i can imagine that a few top players may join celtic.

It would take more than 10 years of development and investment before Celtic would be able to mount a serious challenge for any titel though.

For the reord I don't think we would challenege the top 6 any time soon if this move was to happen.

It would take years and years of plying our trade in that league to gather the cash and stability to buy and attract the players required to push on. I do think that we could attract better players than some of the EPL cannon fodder teams are capable of attracting.

But this instant dismissal of the Old Firm just because we are in the SPL is ridiculous.

Oh and just a final point on the LArsson debate from me before I sign off of this topic...

Scoring the SPL doesn't compare with scoring in the top 4 Euro leagues.

Yeah and if his scoring ended in the SPL I might agree...but he scored at every level he ever played at. He was the man that turned the Champions League final around for Barca and fully deserved the man of the match award for his short appearance. The man was genuine class, regardless of the league he played in.

eirebilly wrote:Ent. Good post

I for one dont over estimate Celtics squad, it is not a squad that will challenge for the titel. At best it would currently be mid table. That said, if Celtic were to move to the PL and survive a year or two, they would certainly be able to attact some big named players because it is a big club, it is a famous club and it is a club rich in history so i can imagine that a few top players may join celtic.

It would take more than 10 years of development and investment before Celtic would be able to mount a serious challenge for any titel though.

I'm not sure they ever could, early on they wouldn't have the finances to draw the big names - the likes of spurs can't pick up a really big name and they have 3 times celtics wage bill, european football and a decent transfer budget.

You've also got to factor in long away trips every other week, no easy games and the fact they won't get the momentum of winning every week like they currently do in Scotland.

Porto have less money than Celtic and have won 2 Uefa cups and the CL in the last 10 or so years compared to a uefa cup final and 1 CL 1/4 final.

I'd say they would be like everton after a few years establishing themselves - worth leaving the SPL and their history for?

TopHat24/7 wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:

Thomond wrote:The best LOI players are better than the Scottish fellas I would think. Shamrock Rovers would give Celtic a very good game and probably beat them. Let's remember who got to the Europa League group stages on merit.

In fairness, his comment was no more ridiculous than your statement that the OF teams of '98-'02 were as good if not better than anything in the EPL at the same time. United won the TREBLE for god's sake!! When was the last time Celtic or Rangers won anything outside their lopsided domestic competitions?? English sides have reached more Champions League finals in the last 15 yrs than Scottish sides have even got out the group stages!

The Celtic team between 2000 and 2004 would have been more than a match for any English club and the two years before it Rangers had a team that would have matched anyone other than United

Those are the kind of things that make me believe that Celtic could easily have lived with the best in the premiership during Martin O'Neills time at Celtic while Larsson was there

You talk such incredible tosh it's unbelievable, you're blinded by your own ignorance. I'll ask again and make it clearer, if they were so good, WHY DIDN'T THEY WIN ANYTHING??????

The Champions League gives us the perfect barometer of how the top clubs perform and achieve, so let's have a look:

97/98
Celtic - no show
Rangers - knocked out in qualifiers
Best EPL club - Man Utd - knocked out in QF on away goals

98/99
Celtic - knocked out in qualifiers
Rangers - no show
Best EPL club - Man Utd - CHAMPIONS

99/00
Celtic - no show
Rangers - knocked out in first group stage
Best EPL club - Man Utd & Chelsea - both knocked out in QF

00/01
Celtic - no show
Rangers - knocked out in first group stage
Best EPL club - Leeds - knocked out in SF (Mancheser & Arsenal made QF)

01/02
Celtic - knocked out in first group stage
Rangers - knocked out in qualfiers
Best EPL club - Man Utd - knocked out in SF on away goals

02/03
Celtic - knocked out in qualifiers
Rangers - no show
Best EPL club - Man Utd - knocked out in QF

03/04
Celtic - knocked out in group stage
Rangers - knocked out in group stage (NB: United topped the group on 15 points, Rangers took the wooden spoon on 4 points)
Best EPL club - Chelsea - knocked out in SF

04/05
Celtic - knocked out in group stage
Rangers - knocked out in qualifiers
Best EPL club - Liverpool - CHAMPIONS

So in short, over the time period you specified, the OF were not even competitive on any level with the EPL or any of the top European leagues!!

An interesting stat from the recent Deloitte Football survey which covers the most recent 5 seasons and UEFA/Europa as well as Champs League looks at how many Quarter-Finalists each country has provided:

England - 20
Spain - 14
Germany - 13
Italy - 7
Portugal - 7
Holland - 5
France - 4
Ukraine - 4
Russia - 3
Belgium - 1
Scotland - 1
Turkey - 1

So there you have it. In your specified 'golden period' the OF were rubbish and in the past 5 years they are on a par with the Belgian and Turkish leagues.

Celtic didn't qualify for the Champions League until 2001 so all your 'no shows' beforehand are pretty pointless since they never had the opportunity to compete in it, also , it shows a complete ignorance to the recent history pre 97/98, Celtic due to incredibly poor management neatly went under in 1994, Rangers were spending money like it was goi ng out of fashion, Fergus McCann saved the club and had a five year plan, in the fourth year we won the league 97/98 but failed in the Qualifier t(here was turmoil at the club though since the first gut to win the league in 9 years was booted out) Rangers in the summer of 98 spent £36m and assembled a squad that would have been a match for any team in the UK (although utd were a step up)

Celtic didn't qualify from the groups in 2001 but I think we were the first to go out on 9 points, we would have qualified though if we were cheated on a last minute penalty in the Stadio Del Alpi, look it up, we then thanks to luck of the Uefa Cup draw got Valencia, the team who contested the previous two seasons Champions League finals, they were a top team, we eventually lost on penalties but played them off the pitch at Celtic Park

In 2002 our naivety shown threw when Basel knocked us out of the qualifier on away goals, they weren't mugs though and if I remember right gave both Liverpool and Utd a game of it in the CL, finishing above liverpool in the first group stages knocking them out and the games with utd were tight that season, we did however manage to make the Uefa Cup final beating 'top 6' EPL clubs on the way, Blackburn filled with ex Man Utd players and Liverpool were both taken care of away from home

In 2003/04 is a real sickerner, we were a half decent goalkeeper away from having a really good team, wee destroyed Lyon and Anderlecht at Celtic Parl and were beating Bayern and Lyon in the away games late on when idiotic goalkeeping errors from Magnus Hedman cost us big time, still, after we got knocked out of it we still went and put Barcelona out of the Uefa Cup, Frank Rikjaard had just taken over and they were on a 20 game winning run when we beat them

So yes, I do feel vindicated in my belief that between 2000 and 2004 Celtic were equals to anyone in the Premiership, and Rangers team from 98-2000 would have been too for most clubs, I do concede that the 98/99 Utd team were in a league of their own though

Ent wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Ent. Good post

I for one dont over estimate Celtics squad, it is not a squad that will challenge for the titel. At best it would currently be mid table. That said, if Celtic were to move to the PL and survive a year or two, they would certainly be able to attact some big named players because it is a big club, it is a famous club and it is a club rich in history so i can imagine that a few top players may join celtic.

It would take more than 10 years of development and investment before Celtic would be able to mount a serious challenge for any titel though.

I'm not sure they ever could, early on they wouldn't have the finances to draw the big names - the likes of spurs can't pick up a really big name and they have 3 times celtics wage bill, european football and a decent transfer budget.

You've also got to factor in long away trips every other week, no easy games and the fact they won't get the momentum of winning every week like they currently do in Scotland.

Porto have less money than Celtic and have won 2 Uefa cups and the CL in the last 10 or so years compared to a uefa cup final and 1 CL 1/4 final.

I'd say they would be like everton after a few years establishing themselves - worth leaving the SPL and their history for?

It would be very tough but at the end of the day Celtic is a big name still with massive amounts of support globally. Whoes to say that if they did join the PL that a rich company would not buy them and turn them into a Chelsea or Man City? The Celtic brand name is one of the most famous in Asia and America so its not entirely unfeasable that could happen.

eirebilly wrote:

Ent wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Ent. Good post

I for one dont over estimate Celtics squad, it is not a squad that will challenge for the titel. At best it would currently be mid table. That said, if Celtic were to move to the PL and survive a year or two, they would certainly be able to attact some big named players because it is a big club, it is a famous club and it is a club rich in history so i can imagine that a few top players may join celtic.

It would take more than 10 years of development and investment before Celtic would be able to mount a serious challenge for any titel though.

I'm not sure they ever could, early on they wouldn't have the finances to draw the big names - the likes of spurs can't pick up a really big name and they have 3 times celtics wage bill, european football and a decent transfer budget.

You've also got to factor in long away trips every other week, no easy games and the fact they won't get the momentum of winning every week like they currently do in Scotland.

Porto have less money than Celtic and have won 2 Uefa cups and the CL in the last 10 or so years compared to a uefa cup final and 1 CL 1/4 final.

I'd say they would be like everton after a few years establishing themselves - worth leaving the SPL and their history for?

It would be very tough but at the end of the day Celtic is a big name still with massive amounts of support globally. Whoes to say that if they did join the PL that a rich company would not buy them and turn them into a Chelsea or Man City? The Celtic brand name is one of the most famous in Asia and America so its not entirely unfeasable that could happen.

That could literally happen to any team though, a pointless discussion.

As for another posters synopsis of the 'great' celtic teams, every team has hard luck stories - get over it you didn't do any better in those competitions.

Also performing in one off games isn't a good measure of league performance, we all know Celtic could get up for a one off game, but easy enough to prepare when you've got the likes of Partick at home the week after rather than a PL team when you are chasing a title or europe.

If you were that good you would have won something.

Well i would say that the chances of Celtic attracting a big sponsor or rich owner is a lot higher than alot of teams in the PL. Celtic is a huge brand name globally. Not on par with a ManU or Liverpool but well up there. That coupled with the glamour of the PL as opposed to the SPL would raise some interest. I cant see it as being a pointless discussion at all. I feel that it would be a very real possibility if Celtic were to play in the PL.

For my 2 cents, I'm a Celtic fan.

I think if first entered in the Prem League, Celtic would struggle may even flirt with relagation, first few years would be hard, but they would get more tv money than ever before.

To put in context, Arsnal get money tv money in one year that the whole of Scottish football do for 3 years.

Once Celtic enter the Prem and get a share of the tv money redo their sponsership deals, they would be on at about par with Liverpool.

And lets not forget that Celtic have debts of about £7 million, in contrrast Man Utds debt is £308m.

Celtic fans travel well thats why they are norammly teh team booked for testamonials, therefore away attences in teh prem would increase, and Parkhead would hneed expanded, if 60,000 fans turn up for games again dundee or motherwell, they could double it against the likes of Chelsea, even Fulham are a bigger draw.

In theory its a great idea to bring them in.

but only for rangers,celtic and the premier league as a whole(bar two of our clubs of course!!)

it would increse the preimer league's value, and the two scottish teams value.

problems

the rest of scottish league would be completly devalued more than it is allready!

2 places lost in the football league for english sides.

less british team spots in cl- if the scottish teams got good then they could effectively take away two english clubs pl spots.

if they dont they wont get into europe at all!!!

hooliganisim- its been a long hard journey and its getting stamped out- it could flair up again with the two scottish teams in the same league.

so the negatives possibly outweigh the positives.