The Wales vs England bickering thread, 2012 - PONIES ALLOWED!

[TycroesOsprey]

First topic message reminder :

OK, every year we see threads that actually contain really good rugby discussion derailed by the ongoing Wales vs England bickering and WUMMING! I will name no names. I guess we have all been guilty .

Since most of the general bickering comes from the respective fans of Wales and England ; I thought I would create a thread for it in an effort to keep decent rugby discussion relatively WUM free in other threads.

So I will begin, An article in the Western Mail today pointed out how England are copying Gatlands youthful approach with a squad that has an average age of 25 and 428 caps between them.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/01/12/analysis-new-look-england-follow-youthful-wales-lead-91466-30105333/

Wales probable squad (once you have taken out Shane and Wellies from the World cup squad with their probable replacements) lines up at the same average age and about 820 caps between them. England are copying Wales' approcach but are way behind. Clearly all things point to a wales victory in HQ this year.

Discuss

post script

Please may I emphasise that this is a bickering and banter thread, whilst mild wumming and banter are allowed please try not to stray over the line of decency.

[mystiroakey]

lol- yep that would be the one

[Shifty]

TycroesOsprey

Don't mention "viral". The latest on Wales Online is that Hook has got chickenpox!

Good he went back to France a week ago! Hopefully he can infect their squad before the Grand slam decider.

[miteyironpaw]

If you dont understand the pony meme well honestly look it up it was viral last year though a bit out of date now if your under 40 you should know.

Under 14 did you mean?

[TycroesOsprey]

Spoiler:

[Guest]

Wales team looking focused and a real steady expectation and confidence is filling the group.
England team talk about Twickenham factor and pray to god that their South Sea Islander can get some go forward ball for them.

England will lose and it will hurt like hell.

[majesticimperialman]

Wales team looking focused and a real steady expectation and confidence is filling the group.
England team talk about Twickenham factor and pray to god that their South Sea Islander can get some go forward ball for them.

England will lose and it will hurt like hell.

Sounding mighty confident viewtothegym.

Also it seems abit like racism creeping in their. one of these days the mods will catch up with you and ban you from these boards.

[Glas a du]

Que? Racism? Where?

[TycroesOsprey]

Wales team looking focused and a real steady expectation and confidence is filling the group.
England team talk about Twickenham factor and pray to god that their South Sea Islander can get some go forward ball for them.

England will lose and it will hurt like hell.

Sounding mighty confident viewtothegym.

Also it seems abit like racism creeping in their. one of these days the mods will catch up with you and ban you from these boards.

Where is the racism in that?

[miteyironpaw]

South Sea Islander...is the N word for Pacific Islanders, so some posters on here would have you believe.

[Glas a du]

That's ignorance not racism.

[TycroesOsprey]

Wasnt aware it was offensive tbh and I doubt view would deliberatly use the phrase if he knew either.

[DaveM]

Wales team looking focused and a real steady expectation and confidence is filling the group.
England team talk about Twickenham factor and pray to god that their South Sea Islander can get some go forward ball for them.

England will lose and it will hurt like hell.

Just out of interest View, why do you feel so strongly about England/the English?

[english warrior]

Davem - View, feels so strongly about England, because like it or not (and i suspect he and his countrymen don' t) Wales are a small country who have been conquered, exploited, and oppressed by England and the English for about 800 years, and this has led to an ingrained hatred of the English and the 'Overlordship' that we represent. We have imposed our language, customs and laws on an Independant people and ruled them with a rod of Iron (and castles) . So they are not likely to like us, but behind all that hatred is fear of Englands power and cultural power. So not surprising that the Welsh feel a little inferior in light of all this. As one Welsh commentator said the,

'relationship between England and wales is one of Master and servant'

But to understand the Welsh psyche is to see that Rugby was the one outlet that Wales could compete and even surpass England, and for many years this was a source of solace and pride that Little wales could outdo mighty England.

But then in the 90's England took even this last crumb of solace away from the oppressed Welsh and beat them at their own game, Rugby, and whats more surpassed anything that they could even dream of by winning the World cup in 03. Imagine what that did to an already battered Welsh psyche and understand that these people have nothing left if we beat them at Rugby, as we have done, at a ratio of 3-1 since the beginning of the 90's.

So spare a thought for the Welsh and absolutely give them both Barrels when we continue to 'Kick their backsides' and hammer them in to the turf of Twickenham !!!

You know, i don't even like England myself when i think what we've done to those poor valley dwellers!

[Glas a du]

Well done EW

However, two things.

Firstly, we gave you a hell of a fright in the 03 World Cup, just as we had New Zealand.

Secondly, that ratio will be clawed back in the next 20 years.

[HERSH]

"we gave you a hell of a fright in the 03 World Cup, just as we had New Zealand"

Yet no cigar!

Again!

[TycroesOsprey]

Davem - View, feels so strongly about England, because like it or not (and i suspect he and his countrymen don' t) Wales are a small country who have been conquered, exploited, and oppressed by England and the English for about 800 years, and this has led to an ingrained hatred of the English and the 'Overlordship' that we represent. We have imposed our language, customs and laws on an Independant people and ruled them with a rod of Iron (and castles) . So they are not likely to like us, but behind all that hatred is fear of Englands power and cultural power. So not surprising that the Welsh feel a little inferior in light of all this. As one Welsh commentator said the,

'relationship between England and wales is one of Master and servant'

But to understand the Welsh psyche is to see that Rugby was the one outlet that Wales could compete and even surpass England, and for many years this was a source of solace and pride that Little wales could outdo mighty England.

But then in the 90's England took even this last crumb of solace away from the oppressed Welsh and beat them at their own game, Rugby, and whats more surpassed anything that they could even dream of by winning the World cup in 03. Imagine what that did to an already battered Welsh psyche and understand that these people have nothing left if we beat them at Rugby, as we have done, at a ratio of 3-1 since the beginning of the 90's.

So spare a thought for the Welsh and absolutely give them both Barrels when we continue to 'Kick their backsides' and hammer them in to the turf of Twickenham !!!

You know, i don't even like England myself when i think what we've done to those poor valley dwellers!

1600 years, just saying

[miteyironpaw]

Wales team looking focused and a real steady expectation and confidence is filling the group.
England team talk about Twickenham factor and pray to god that their South Sea Islander can get some go forward ball for them.

England will lose and it will hurt like hell.

Just out of interest View, why do you feel so strongly about England/the English?

You know, in all honesty, I was getting a really hard time from many posters for saying this kind of thing yesterday in a pro-England way. I'm not sure what the distinction is. Surely this is "arrogant" and "provocative" and all those things just as much as when I say it?

[Glas a du]

"we gave you a hell of a fright in the 03 World Cup, just as we had New Zealand"

Yet no cigar!

Again!

What do you mean no cigar? Shane Williams was 'discovered' which lead to two grand slams.

[TycroesOsprey]

shouldnt that be "remembered by the muppet we had as coach, thrown to the lions only to prove he and a lot of welsh rugby fans/pundits/ex players might have a point", glas?

[Glas a du]

Yes. And look who took over from GH in NZ...

[miteyironpaw]

Davem - View, feels so strongly about England, because like it or not (and i suspect he and his countrymen don' t) Wales are a small country who have been conquered, exploited, and oppressed by England and the English for about 800 years, and this has led to an ingrained hatred of the English and the 'Overlordship' that we represent. We have imposed our language, customs and laws on an Independant people and ruled them with a rod of Iron (and castles) . So they are not likely to like us, but behind all that hatred is fear of Englands power and cultural power. So not surprising that the Welsh feel a little inferior in light of all this. As one Welsh commentator said the,

'relationship between England and wales is one of Master and servant'

But to understand the Welsh psyche is to see that Rugby was the one outlet that Wales could compete and even surpass England, and for many years this was a source of solace and pride that Little wales could outdo mighty England.

But then in the 90's England took even this last crumb of solace away from the oppressed Welsh and beat them at their own game, Rugby, and whats more surpassed anything that they could even dream of by winning the World cup in 03. Imagine what that did to an already battered Welsh psyche and understand that these people have nothing left if we beat them at Rugby, as we have done, at a ratio of 3-1 since the beginning of the 90's.

So spare a thought for the Welsh and absolutely give them both Barrels when we continue to 'Kick their backsides' and hammer them in to the turf of Twickenham !!!

You know, i don't even like England myself when i think what we've done to those poor valley dwellers!

1600 years, just saying

Rugby is Welsh?

[TycroesOsprey]

Davem - View, feels so strongly about England, because like it or not (and i suspect he and his countrymen don' t) Wales are a small country who have been conquered, exploited, and oppressed by England and the English for about 800 years, and this has led to an ingrained hatred of the English and the 'Overlordship' that we represent. We have imposed our language, customs and laws on an Independant people and ruled them with a rod of Iron (and castles) . So they are not likely to like us, but behind all that hatred is fear of Englands power and cultural power. So not surprising that the Welsh feel a little inferior in light of all this. As one Welsh commentator said the,

'relationship between England and wales is one of Master and servant'

But to understand the Welsh psyche is to see that Rugby was the one outlet that Wales could compete and even surpass England, and for many years this was a source of solace and pride that Little wales could outdo mighty England.

But then in the 90's England took even this last crumb of solace away from the oppressed Welsh and beat them at their own game, Rugby, and whats more surpassed anything that they could even dream of by winning the World cup in 03. Imagine what that did to an already battered Welsh psyche and understand that these people have nothing left if we beat them at Rugby, as we have done, at a ratio of 3-1 since the beginning of the 90's.

So spare a thought for the Welsh and absolutely give them both Barrels when we continue to 'Kick their backsides' and hammer them in to the turf of Twickenham !!!

You know, i don't even like England myself when i think what we've done to those poor valley dwellers!

1600 years, just saying

Rugby is Welsh?

no we were just better at it than you for 90% of the twentieth century.

[miteyironpaw]

I wasn't alive for 90% of the 20th century. Is that when you were better than me?

[mystiroakey]

lol you welshies understand that us english are only re building - it wont hurt us if we lose- we expect it. however the samartans are calling upon all english saturday night to work in there call centre which deals with the mid western area of GB

[TycroesOsprey]

Basically Will Carling did a deal with the devil in 1990 for 13 years of English dominance after basically a century of being not that good. The devil sick of hearing about Barry and Gareth and Jiffy and Gerald from God decided to let Carling have the deal. The thirteen years of English dominance ended in 2003 since when they have been, well back to the kind of form the showed up until 1990 really.

The problen is with a golden era is that eventually it comes to an end. In the 90s the welsh rugby public slowly came to realise we werent world beaters anymore. It wasnt until Wales reached rock bottom that the rugby authorities really started the systematic overhaul of the union that had to take place. Before that the vested interests of the committee men and the clubs would always win out against any rational plan to move forward.

England at the moment face exactly the same problem. The golden age has ended, but fans expectations are still that England are world beaters. The union needs systematic overhauling at the top but is blocked by the vested interests of club and committee.

Its all true and if you dont believe me I will bring ponies.

[miteyironpaw]

Basically Will Carling did a deal with the devil in 1990 for 13 years of English dominance after basically a century of being not that good. The devil sick of hearing about Barry and Gareth and Jiffy and Gerald from God decided to let Carling have the deal. The thirteen years of English dominance ended in 2003 since when they have been, well back to the kind of form the showed up until 1990 really.

The problen is with a golden era is that eventually it comes to an end. In the 90s the welsh rugby public slowly came to realise we werent world beaters anymore. It wasnt until Wales reached rock bottom that the rugby authorities really started the systematic overhaul of the union that had to take place. Before that the vested interests of the committee men and the clubs would always win out against any rational plan to move forward.

England at the moment face exactly the same problem. The golden age has ended, but fans expectations are still that England are world beaters. The union needs systematic overhauling at the top but is blocked by the vested interests of club and committee.

Its all true and if you dont believe me I will bring ponies.

It took you until the 90's to realise you weren't world beaters? Crikey. You'll be needing more ponies next time TO.

[TycroesOsprey]

well we managed a semifinal in the first world cup and that all black side was unbeatable so with the couple of championships and a triple crown in the eighties and beating the English seven times that decade things weren't so bad.

The day the welsh public realised we werent world beaters was 6th October 1991 but we didnt reach rock bottom for another ten years after that. Yes Im looking at you Steve Hansen.

[Guest]

I'm a Wales supporter and recall an English mate saying, over 50 years ago as we sat in front of a small black and white television screen, "Come on England, show 'em how to play rugby!" England won the game but, after scores of other matches between the sides, he and I are still good mates.

I'm not sure we would still be mates if he'd gone on about "overlordship", "the Welsh psyche" and "poor valley dwellers". That's not rugby banter, it's guff.

[slartibartfast]

There's a lot of talk from all nations regarding how England will play, who they'll select, what the tactics will be, should they target the welsh line out, is presistland a weak link to be exploited, how Manu tualagie will single handedly come on and save the day in the second half. Ben Morgan this and Ben Morgan that. Wales only came 4th blah blah

What's good about this is no ones talking about how Wales will play on Saturday, England are too busy staring in to their own navels.

Sweet

[Woodstock]

[quote="english warrior"]Davem - Wales are a small country who have been conquered, exploited, and oppressed by England [quote/]


Despite your excitement english warrior or in Welsh Hedd Wyn, none of the above was achieved was it. In fact if you tried any of the above now how far do you really think you would get??
Insult Removed

Yma O Hyd.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Wales team looking focused and a real steady expectation and confidence is filling the group.
England team talk about Twickenham factor and pray to god that their South Sea Islander can get some go forward ball for them.

England will lose and it will hurt like hell.

Just out of interest View, why do you feel so strongly about England/the English?

You know, in all honesty, I was getting a really hard time from many posters for saying this kind of thing yesterday in a pro-England way. I'm not sure what the distinction is. Surely this is "arrogant" and "provocative" and all those things just as much as when I say it?

It's not far off, Mitey. But seeing as you don't like it, how about you stop posting the same kind of thing in reply? Just an idea!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Despite your excitement english warrior or in Welsh Hedd Wyn, none of the above was achieved was it. In fact if you tried any of the above now how far do you really think you would get??
man sausage.

Yma O Hyd.

Who told you Hedd Wyn was Welsh for 'English Warrior?!'

[HERSH]

Wales team looking focused and a real steady expectation and confidence is filling the group.
England team talk about Twickenham factor and pray to god that their South Sea Islander can get some go forward ball for them.

England will lose and it will hurt like hell.

Its amazing what the Welsh can get away with on here!

The guys English. its time to stop this racist bile.

Is there any English Mods on here or are they all Welsh and Scottish?

To address this imbalance I put myself forward to be a Mod.

[Liam]

Wales team looking focused and a real steady expectation and confidence is filling the group.
England team talk about Twickenham factor and pray to god that their South Sea Islander can get some go forward ball for them.

England will lose and it will hurt like hell.

Its amazing what the Welsh can get away with on here!

The guys English. its time to stop this racist bile.

Is there any English Mods on here or are they all Welsh and Scottish?

HERSH,

Its a bickering thread, why don't you just come back like all the other England fans do (Telegraph readers also) and just say North and Cuthbert are English and Faletau is also a south sea islander.

Pot,Kettle black....

To address this imbalance I put myself forward to be a Mod.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Faletau is also a south sea islander.

Pot,Kettle black....

Racist!

[Liam]

Faletau is also a south sea islander.

Pot,Kettle black....

Racist!

Haha, how dare I say such a thing. North is white

[english warrior]

woodstock- You asked How far would we get if we tried those things i set out in my earlier post. Namely, Overlordship et al.

Well the same result of course, so here's to the next 800 years and counting!!

[miteyironpaw]

Wales team looking focused and a real steady expectation and confidence is filling the group.
England team talk about Twickenham factor and pray to god that their South Sea Islander can get some go forward ball for them.

England will lose and it will hurt like hell.

Just out of interest View, why do you feel so strongly about England/the English?

You know, in all honesty, I was getting a really hard time from many posters for saying this kind of thing yesterday in a pro-England way. I'm not sure what the distinction is. Surely this is "arrogant" and "provocative" and all those things just as much as when I say it?

It's not far off, Mitey. But seeing as you don't like it, how about you stop posting the same kind of thing in reply? Just an idea!

I don't have a problem with it, I think it would be easier if everybody had less of a thin skin and didn't run off to the mods crying every 5 minutes when a nasty man posted something they didn't agree with. I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy that the same people who keep trying to have me removed from the board are posting exactly the same kind of harmless one eyed hopeful nonsense that I'm posting (except obviously when I post it, it's not hopeful, or nonsense).

[RubyGuby]

english worrier - You boys just keep sending those tax subsidies and all the other money you can spare over to us poor welsh. Your man in Whitehall is now sqeezing your NHS whilst our boys in the welsh parliament are spending money on our NHS in Wales like Paris Hilton on coke - Keep 'em coming worrier, keep 'em coming, the boys will blow your house down come Saturday

[english warrior]

Ruby- Well after whats we've done to you poor,poor people over the years, its the least we can do old chap!!

As for Saturday, well, time will tell and if by some miracle, Wales win, my attitude will be that we are re-building, and if we win, well, so what, its what we do against Wales, in everything!!

[RubyGuby]

I can see that you will be down at Jewsons yard on Monday morning around 8.30

[gregortree]

Ruby, mwaha !
Jewson, yes that's right, Glos sponsors. Need to rebuild HQ with a few more Glos boys. Anyway, England can 'win' in any case, just like Warrior says

[RubyGuby]

Of course they can win - Jeeeez if we beat you with that bunch of muppetts in 1999 of course you can win - Don't get carried away with the banter gregor - and tell me how did you Gloucester boys let Ben Morgan through the net - He's a cracking 8 and as good as Heaslip IMO

[gregortree]

Ruby,yes Ben is a local boy made good from the Glos 'valleys' Dursley lad, who somehow got talent spotted by Scarlets before Glos could discover him. Yes as a Glos member I'm hoping we can win him back home. I understand an auction is now on for his services between the respective clubs. As to Ben and England, well he knows the Welsh back row boys from Welsh club rugby, so hope / expect he starts for England on Saturday. Wales are a v good team on such a roll at moment, I do not recall feeling this respectful just ahead of a Twickers meeting (well not since the '70s). Saturday will be a marathon, as Glos k/o at 6pm right after the final whistle at HQ. Some day it will be.

[Guest]

Glos were so oblivious to Morgan he had to go and play rugby in Merthyr of all places!

The Blues then missed their chance to nab him, so then the Scarlets came a calling.

[gregortree]

nothing wrong with Merthyr, have old friends there

[Guest]

I shall refrain form making a further comment on Merthyr then, although you may be the only person i've ever come across that says there's nothing wrong with it!

[RubyGuby]

Gregor we were still beating you for fun in 1988 so dont give me that 70's bull

[gregortree]

Ruby, I just remember taking it for granted in the 70s. that Wales would win. As a young (English) player I remember looking up to the Welsh as great wizards of the game at that time. Until Billy Beaumont's 1980 slam. I think results evened up a little after that, tho' no doubt you can quote me the actual 80s stats. In fact tell me. I recall I watched England beat NZ in Nov '83, in the days you could still but tickets at Twickenham.

[RubyGuby]

1990 onwards we lost all our players to Rugby League and 15 years of famine set in - Instead of a midfield of Jonathan Davies, Scott Gibbs and Alan Bateman with Quinnell to feed them we had 2nd and 3rd choice players who were never international material - I think we are just about getting back to competing now but its been a long journey for us. England could always pull off the odd test win against NZ even in the 70's. I was at the Wales v NZ game when we were 12-10 up when right at the end Andy Haden and his mates jumped out of the line out - It was a great call but not at the time.

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