Scotland v England Match Thread, Teams etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Scotland:

15 Rory Lamont,
14 Lee Jones,
13 Nick De Luca,
12 Sean Lamont,
11 Max Evans,
10 Dan Parks,
9 Chris Cusiter;
8 David Denton,
7 Ross Rennie,
6 Alasdair Strokosch,
5 Jim Hamilton,
4 Richie Gray,
3 Euan Murray,
2 Ross Ford (captain),
1 Allan Jacobsen.

Replacements: Scott Lawson, Geoff Cross, Alastair Kellock, John Barclay, Mike Blair, Greig Laidlaw, Graeme Morrison.

Added Spice
The Scottish Rugby Union have been left embarassed after T-shirts boasting of a Calcutta Cup win appeared on sale five days before this Saturday's match.

The mistake by the SRU's online retail partner led to T-shirts from Scotland's win in 2008 being re-released.

The shirts bore the logo: "Calcutta Cup. Scotland. Winners."

The blunder comes days after Scotland head coach Andy Robinson stood by comments he made after the World Cup accusing England of 'arrogance'.

England Squad

15 Ben Foden;
14 Chris Ashton;
13 Brad Barritt,
12 Owen Farrell,
11 David Strettle;
10 Charlie Hodgson;
9 Ben Youngs;
1 Alex Corbisiero,
2 Dylan Hartley,
3 Dan Cole;
4 Mouritz Botha,
5 Tom Palmer;
6 Tom Croft,
7 Chris Robshaw (captain),
8 Phil Dowson.

Replacements: Rob Webber, Matt Stevens, Geoff Parling, Ben Morgan, Lee Dickson, Jordan Turner-Hall, Mike Brown.

[ChequeredJersey]

For England, Foden looked OK, as did Ashton and Strettle but they still didn't get the ball in attack to get any real idea of how good they really are. Some good tackles though, Foden's hit on Rennie was a life-saver, everyone is blaming Rennie, and he should have passed earlier, but great defence. Hodgson aside from his try was not great. Farrell was not great but took his kicks reasonably (the misses were hard at least) and his crossfield kick was OK. Something is going wrong defensively in the backs but Barritt looked good at his game but the back-line as a whole lacked imagination.

Youngs was dreadful.

Dowson was ok but didn't impress. Robshaw did a decent job in slowing the ball down and tackling but isn't a 7. Croft made one great chasing tackle and that was literally it. Botha looked good, Palmer less so. Front row looked ok but hardly awesome in the loose. Scrum held up better than expected. We lost the breakdown but coped better than expected against a strong Scottish back-row with an actual 7 and more physical forwards. Missed tackles but managed to cover tackle reasonably. Line-out looked shaky.

Reserving judgement.

[maestegmafia]

I think saying England will lose against Italy is a bit over the top.
Its very hard to have a good game up in Murryfield.

Paris is a lot more difficult to win in than Murrayfield mate.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

I think Italy will seriously fancy their chances next week against this English side. Their problem will be that they are playing in the Stadio Olimpico rather than the Stadio Flaminio so the stadium will be perhaps 20,000 under capacity and the atmosphere will not be as good as usual. I think England will win, thats 2 wins out of 2. Their tails will be up, full of confidence and they might well carry this on through to others matches. Then who knows. The Six Nations is always about momentum.

[gowales]

But the major positive for England is you've got players to come back from injury.

If you add Lawes, Wood, Flood and Tuilagi into that side you could do some damage.

[DaveM]

A decent enough start for an England side that will get much better. Really good discipline in defence and the breakdown was much better. I was impressed with the England pack, given I think we can select a better one.

[ChequeredJersey]

I think Sharples would've been a good shout in hindsight. Could've done with the extra gas out wide on a couple of occasions.

Wouldn't he have to get the ball first?

[gowales]

I think saying England will lose against Italy is a bit over the top.
Its very hard to have a good game up in Murryfield.

Paris is a lot more difficult to win in than Murrayfield mate.

Not really.

[eirebilly]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

[trebellbobaggins]

Well jd has wales being best in the world ever, no one can beat them amazing, we might as well all go home,

[maestegmafia]

I think saying England will lose against Italy is a bit over the top.
Its very hard to have a good game up in Murryfield.

Paris is a lot more difficult to win in than Murrayfield mate.

Not really.

Yes really !!!

[mystiroakey]

I think saying England will lose against Italy is a bit over the top.
Its very hard to have a good game up in Murryfield.

Paris is a lot more difficult to win in than Murrayfield mate.

it might be for most but not england in recent times- but then why let reality cloud your opinion

[Mad for Chelsea]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

To be fair they didn't have the ball enough to show what they could do in attack, but they were a few decent moves I thought. I think they'll manage to exploit Italy's weaknesses OK, it won't be a classic but I fully expect England to win fairly comfortably.

[gowales]

How many top tier sides have lost against Italy at home and Scotland?
The facts say its harder to win in Scotland

[gowales]

I think saying England will lose against Italy is a bit over the top.
Its very hard to have a good game up in Murryfield.

Paris is a lot more difficult to win in than Murrayfield mate.

Not really.

Yes really !!!

How many top tier sides have lost against Italy at home and Scotland?
The facts say its harder to win in Scotland

[eirebilly]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

To be fair they didn't have the ball enough to show what they could do in attack, but they were a few decent moves I thought. I think they'll manage to exploit Italy's weaknesses OK, it won't be a classic but I fully expect England to win fairly comfortably.

Why didnt they have the ball is the question you should be asking

[mystiroakey]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

To be fair they didn't have the ball enough to show what they could do in attack, but they were a few decent moves I thought. I think they'll manage to exploit Italy's weaknesses OK, it won't be a classic but I fully expect England to win fairly comfortably.

Why didnt they have the ball is the question you should be asking

is it- why cant we all ask all the questions- you are concentrating on englands negatives in one winning game- a place that has been a fortress against the english in recent years!!!!!!, how about looking at the whole picture for once!!!!!!!!!!

[ChequeredJersey]

Oh, the cross-field kick was Hodgson's? I take it back about Farrell

[maestegmafia]

I think saying England will lose against Italy is a bit over the top.
Its very hard to have a good game up in Murryfield.

Paris is a lot more difficult to win in than Murrayfield mate.

Not really.

Yes really !!!

How many top tier sides have lost against Italy at home and Scotland?
The facts say its harder to win in Scotland

Paris is in france not in Italy and a lot more top teams have lost in Paris than Edinburgh

[eirebilly]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

To be fair they didn't have the ball enough to show what they could do in attack, but they were a few decent moves I thought. I think they'll manage to exploit Italy's weaknesses OK, it won't be a classic but I fully expect England to win fairly comfortably.

Why didnt they have the ball is the question you should be asking

is it- why cant we all ask all the questions- you are concentrating on englands negatives in one winning game- a place that has been a fortress against the english in recent years!!!!!!, how about looking at the whole picture for once!!!!!!!!!!

I do apologise, i will no longer discuss England becuase i am Irish.... Is that what you want?

[gowales]

Oh sorry i thought you said Rome

[Mad for Chelsea]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

To be fair they didn't have the ball enough to show what they could do in attack, but they were a few decent moves I thought. I think they'll manage to exploit Italy's weaknesses OK, it won't be a classic but I fully expect England to win fairly comfortably.

Why didnt they have the ball is the question you should be asking

because we played much better without it. You'd have noticed I'm sure that 10 of England's 13 points were scored from Scottish posession Next game we will feel happier with the ball and thus keep it a bit more

[EnglishReign]

England have a better recent record in Paris, and should be back to full strength by then. Not saying they'll win but, you know, more worried about Italy atm.

[mystiroakey]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

To be fair they didn't have the ball enough to show what they could do in attack, but they were a few decent moves I thought. I think they'll manage to exploit Italy's weaknesses OK, it won't be a classic but I fully expect England to win fairly comfortably.

Why didnt they have the ball is the question you should be asking

is it- why cant we all ask all the questions- you are concentrating on englands negatives in one winning game- a place that has been a fortress against the english in recent years!!!!!!, how about looking at the whole picture for once!!!!!!!!!!

I do apologise, i will no longer discuss England becuase i am Irish.... Is that what you want?

do you seriously think italy arte a better team than england?

i am sort of astonished by your ramblings

[eirebilly]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

To be fair they didn't have the ball enough to show what they could do in attack, but they were a few decent moves I thought. I think they'll manage to exploit Italy's weaknesses OK, it won't be a classic but I fully expect England to win fairly comfortably.

Why didnt they have the ball is the question you should be asking

because we played much better without it. You'd have noticed I'm sure that 10 of England's 13 points were scored from Scottish posession Next game we will feel happier with the ball and thus keep it a bit more

That it was. I look forward to the match next weekend. I honestly think that it was good to see some young talent in the England side and i was very impressed with Robshaw today.

[Mad for Chelsea]

some off ratings from Ackford in the telegraph how on earth does he give Farell 8 and Baritt 7?

[english warrior]

England won a game that most of the Celts on here were certain that they'd lose (and to be honest so did i) and in addition to this good news, they played quite well and had good discipline. If they can win ugly like this away from home, who knows what may await them and i for one am looking forward to a 6 nations that i felt might be Horrendous.

So a good start, which should be acknowledged by our Celtic Vassals, and hopefully it won't make them too upset tonight. Oh, OK that last bit was untrue!!

C'mon Ireland show the Welsh the reality of their team and situation which is primed to pop like a Balloon of Hot air, how unlike Wales! Ha,ha

[eirebilly]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

To be fair they didn't have the ball enough to show what they could do in attack, but they were a few decent moves I thought. I think they'll manage to exploit Italy's weaknesses OK, it won't be a classic but I fully expect England to win fairly comfortably.

Why didnt they have the ball is the question you should be asking

is it- why cant we all ask all the questions- you are concentrating on englands negatives in one winning game- a place that has been a fortress against the english in recent years!!!!!!, how about looking at the whole picture for once!!!!!!!!!!

I do apologise, i will no longer discuss England becuase i am Irish.... Is that what you want?

do you seriously think italy arte a better team than england?

i am sort of astonished by your ramblings

Last time i will respond to you as you are clearly looking for a fight.

No, i dont think that Italy are a better team than England. Yes i think that Italy will feel that they have a chance against England.

I see nothing controversial or rambling in that

[gowales]

I think saying England will lose against Italy is a bit over the top.
Its very hard to have a good game up in Murryfield.

Paris is a lot more difficult to win in than Murrayfield mate.

Not really.

Yes really !!!

How many top tier sides have lost against Italy at home and Scotland?
The facts say its harder to win in Scotland

Paris is in france not in Italy and a lot more top teams have lost in Paris than Edinburgh

What i first said was that it is hard to win in Scotland. You misunderstood and thought that i was comparing England winning in Scotland to Italy losing in France.
What i meant is that it is harder to win Scotland than it is in Rome.

[Notch]

I do apologise, i will no longer discuss England becuase i am Irish.... Is that what you want?

do you seriously think italy arte a better team than england?

i am sort of astonished by your ramblings

Well, on the evidence of today England could lose. I think the days where any Six Nations side could go away to Italy and be guaranteed a win are gone. I expect a close game.

[ChequeredJersey]

some off ratings from Ackford in the telegraph how on earth does he give Farell 8 and Baritt 7?

Because he's clueless?

[ChequeredJersey]

Just looked at Ackford's scores. What match was he watching?

[mystiroakey]

italy have beaten every other side in the 6nations!

but not england as yet- they could beat them, but then anything could happen at any time.

england are favourites- however you can only get 4/1 on an italy upset. which is as low as ever- so yes an upset coluld happen. upsets are upsets because they are less likly to happen than happen!

the reality is is that there were two teams in the game which started at 5 today- the coversation isnt about scotland is it!!

its all about england losing agame in italy, from posters that swore blind that england would loose to scotland before the kick off!!

it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out what is going on!

[eirebilly]

I do apologise, i will no longer discuss England becuase i am Irish.... Is that what you want?

do you seriously think italy arte a better team than england?

i am sort of astonished by your ramblings

Well, on the evidence of today England could lose. I think the days where any Six Nations side could go away to Italy and be guaranteed a win are gone. I expect a close game.

Careful Notch as apparently discussing Englands performance today on the match thread is not allowed as we are Irish.... We must hail a great England victory or be considered having a victems thingy......

[ChequeredJersey]

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

Yes, that is true but England did nothing in attack today either to say that they will exploit Italies defence.

The fact that England gave away very few Penalties is huge. Thats not what i expected from them. It was one of the reasons why i thought that Scotland would win.

To be fair they didn't have the ball enough to show what they could do in attack, but they were a few decent moves I thought. I think they'll manage to exploit Italy's weaknesses OK, it won't be a classic but I fully expect England to win fairly comfortably.

Why didnt they have the ball is the question you should be asking

because we played much better without it. You'd have noticed I'm sure that 10 of England's 13 points were scored from Scottish posession Next game we will feel happier with the ball and thus keep it a bit more

Fair. Who needs the ball?

[gowales]

If the English forwards can match the Italians they will have to much for them elsewhere. But if the Italian pack dominates anything could happen.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Just looked at Ackford's scores. What match was he watching?

He's got Corbs, Botha, Robshaw, Dowson and Baritt about right, but that's all!

[mystiroakey]

I do apologise, i will no longer discuss England becuase i am Irish.... Is that what you want?

do you seriously think italy arte a better team than england?

i am sort of astonished by your ramblings

Well, on the evidence of today England could lose. I think the days where any Six Nations side could go away to Italy and be guaranteed a win are gone. I expect a close game.

Careful Notch as apparently discussing Englands performance today on the match thread is not allowed as we are Irish.... We must hail a great England victory or be considered having a victems thingy......

my post was directed at maeest as i wxplained and that is due to history- but keep it up if you want, your just showing your self up, talk about england all day long its no skin of my nose

[eirebilly]

It must be horrible being a Scotttish fan. The breaks are there, the forwards do their job but they just cant get that last thing right.

Its not new to them either, hair pulling out stuff.

[Notch]

If the English forwards can match the Italians they will have to much for them elsewhere. But if the Italian pack dominates anything could happen.

Yep, pretty much how I feel too.

[eirebilly]

If the English forwards can match the Italians they will have to much for them elsewhere. But if the Italian pack dominates anything could happen.

On todays showing, i think England can match Italies forwards. Its the midfield and backs i would be worried about.

[trebellbobaggins]

Life under ar from what I recall sadly.

Though I think the bigger cause of our problems was wells, so glad he is gone.

[trebellbobaggins]

If the English forwards can match the Italians they will have to much for them elsewhere. But if the Italian pack dominates anything could happen.

On todays showing, i think England can match Italies forwards. Its the midfield and backs i would be worried about.

I wouldn't at all. Better there I think. Forwards is where Italy can win it and are probably favourites to do so agains a bunch if kids.

[mystiroakey]

If the English forwards can match the Italians they will have to much for them elsewhere. But if the Italian pack dominates anything could happen.

On todays showing, i think England can match Italies forwards. Its the midfield and backs i would be worried about.

i dont even think our forwards touched the ball

however our defence wasnt just decent- they kept compusure and didnt give any stupid pens away!.

midfield was our biggest concern i agree, hoiwever we shouold have more time and possesion against italy, and as long as keep it tight- i cant see the upset happeneing

[eirebilly]

If the English forwards can match the Italians they will have to much for them elsewhere. But if the Italian pack dominates anything could happen.

On todays showing, i think England can match Italies forwards. Its the midfield and backs i would be worried about.

I wouldn't at all. Better there I think. Forwards is where Italy can win it and are probably favourites to do so agains a bunch if kids.

I think the inexperience in the backs was seen today, they will get better but it was a weak link. The only thing i saw wrong with Englands forwards was the defence around the breakdown when there was clean ball.

There was a lot of turnovers won by Englands forwards today.

[B91212]

For England, Foden looked OK, as did Ashton and Strettle but they still didn't get the ball in attack to get any real idea of how good they really are. Some good tackles though, Foden's hit on Rennie was a life-saver, everyone is blaming Rennie, and he should have passed earlier, but great defence. Hodgson aside from his try was not great. Farrell was not great but took his kicks reasonably (the misses were hard at least) and his crossfield kick was OK. Something is going wrong defensively in the backs but Barritt looked good at his game but the back-line as a whole lacked imagination.

Youngs was dreadful.

Dowson was ok but didn't impress. Robshaw did a decent job in slowing the ball down and tackling but isn't a 7. Croft made one great chasing tackle and that was literally it. Botha looked good, Palmer less so. Front row looked ok but hardly awesome in the loose. Scrum held up better than expected. We lost the breakdown but coped better than expected against a strong Scottish back-row with an actual 7 and more physical forwards. Missed tackles but managed to cover tackle reasonably. Line-out looked shaky.

Reserving judgement.

From another England fan think your spot on. From a Scotland perspective thought that Rennie looked great. He made some errors but he really put himself about and looks a real live-wire openside. My guess is he did too much for Robinson and will drop out next week for Barclay.

[trebellbobaggins]

I think the only change I would make to. The backs would be .. Maybe flood.

Manu has to be an option but who goes? Centre were not bad.

[gowales]

Scotland have got good depth in the back row thats for sure. We could use some in Wales!
Beattie, Brown, Barclay and Vernon not even in the first 15!

[Red Right]

Pretty awful game. If Robinson picks Parks next week he should get the sack.

The positives for Scotland were that they seem to have unearthed a gem in Denton, I thought he was outstanding. Laidlaw injected serious pace into the game when he came on and the lineout looks strong.

The negatives are obvious. There was no cohesion at all in the backs. They seemed to have no idea of their moves - if they have any. I have never seen so many players delay their passes as if they had no idea what they were supposed to be doing. The second half was one of the most frustrating I have ever watched - even for a game where I was not really fussed about who won.

For England - all that matters is the win. They have a lot of work to do. We didn't get to see anything of their backs - bar a few Foden cameos. The back row worked hard but were outshone by the Scots. The lineout was a bit shaky at times (but this is the Scots major strenght) but the scrum looked solid and looked to be improving as the game went on. Discipline really was very good.

Next week will be another tough one for England - Italy will be very tough upfront and will seek to keep things tight. Lancaster needs to try and devise a plan to get his midfield more involved, it was impossible to make any opinion on todays centre pairing as they weren't really used - needless to say that stands for the wingers too. Keeping things tight will only play into Italy's hands. However, Rome wasn't built in a day and this is a team at the very beginning of its life cycle.

Scotland need to get some fluency in their backline - they have some good dynamic forwards who will give them go forward but its for nothing if the backs keep butchering any ball they get. Dump Parks and get Laidlaw in - there's a real potential for them to be a dangerous team but it feels like this has been the case for years. Things need to change now

[ChequeredJersey]

I think the only change I would make to. The backs would be .. Maybe flood.

Manu has to be an option but who goes? Centre were not bad.

If Flood is back, have Farrell on the Bench for Manu with Barritt at 12. Then he can game change and cover the 10-13 positions.

[gowales]

1.Corbisiero
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Palmer
6.Robshaw
7.Wood
8.Morgan
9.Youngs
10.Flood
11.Strettle
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Foden

To be honest that would be a very strong England team.

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