Scotland v England Match Thread, Teams etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Scotland:

15 Rory Lamont,
14 Lee Jones,
13 Nick De Luca,
12 Sean Lamont,
11 Max Evans,
10 Dan Parks,
9 Chris Cusiter;
8 David Denton,
7 Ross Rennie,
6 Alasdair Strokosch,
5 Jim Hamilton,
4 Richie Gray,
3 Euan Murray,
2 Ross Ford (captain),
1 Allan Jacobsen.

Replacements: Scott Lawson, Geoff Cross, Alastair Kellock, John Barclay, Mike Blair, Greig Laidlaw, Graeme Morrison.

Added Spice
The Scottish Rugby Union have been left embarassed after T-shirts boasting of a Calcutta Cup win appeared on sale five days before this Saturday's match.

The mistake by the SRU's online retail partner led to T-shirts from Scotland's win in 2008 being re-released.

The shirts bore the logo: "Calcutta Cup. Scotland. Winners."

The blunder comes days after Scotland head coach Andy Robinson stood by comments he made after the World Cup accusing England of 'arrogance'.

England Squad

15 Ben Foden;
14 Chris Ashton;
13 Brad Barritt,
12 Owen Farrell,
11 David Strettle;
10 Charlie Hodgson;
9 Ben Youngs;
1 Alex Corbisiero,
2 Dylan Hartley,
3 Dan Cole;
4 Mouritz Botha,
5 Tom Palmer;
6 Tom Croft,
7 Chris Robshaw (captain),
8 Phil Dowson.

Replacements: Rob Webber, Matt Stevens, Geoff Parling, Ben Morgan, Lee Dickson, Jordan Turner-Hall, Mike Brown.

[ChequeredJersey]

I wish Care hadn't been so stupid and gotten himself dropped. But then he is pretty stupid in matches too, so he might not have played any better than Youngs

[Gibson]

Çheck these stats. HOW did Scotland lose that?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16863670

[gowales]

Because they're Scotland...

[ChequeredJersey]

1.Corbisiero
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Palmer
6.Robshaw
7.Wood
8.Morgan
9.Youngs
10.Flood
11.Strettle
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Foden

To be honest that would be a very strong England team.

Yeah and the following bench looks handy:

Marler (yes, I am serious), Webber, Parling/Botha (he impressed), Croft, Dickson, Farrell, Sharples

[mystiroakey]

Çheck these stats. HOW did Scotland lose that?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16863670

scotlkand lost because england didnt give many penalty kicking opportunities- if you shut that out the rest is immaterial. scotland do not score tries- untill they can they wont be able to score enough to beat a team that is dicsiplined

[Gibson]

Çheck these stats. HOW did Scotland lose that?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16863670

scotlkand lost because england didnt give many penalty kicking opportunities- if you shut that out the rest is immaterial. scotland do not score tries- untill they can they wont be able to score enough to beat a team that is dicsiplined

Englands defence was good. Scotland still butchered 3 tries. It wasn't Englands defence that won them the game. It was Scotlands decision-making and pathetic ball handling in your 22.

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

[Mad for Chelsea]

don't trust those stats, pretty sure England won more than four turnovers.

[thomh]

gowales

I think you've got that basically right, particularly the back row. Dickson and Marler may feature as the tournament goes on, though.

[ChequeredJersey]

don't trust those stats, pretty sure England won more than four turnovers.

Does it count as winning them if Scotland lost the turnovers?

The 6 Nations is bloody awful for my revision...

[mystiroakey]

Çheck these stats. HOW did Scotland lose that?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16863670

scotlkand lost because england didnt give many penalty kicking opportunities- if you shut that out the rest is immaterial. scotland do not score tries- untill they can they wont be able to score enough to beat a team that is dicsiplined

Englands defence was good. Scotland still butchered 3 tries. It wasn't Englands defence that won them the game. It was Scotlands decision-making and pathetic ball handling in your 22.

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

no granduer here- just stating facts- scotland dont score tries, they kick points, limit the later- and score more- you win!

just logic.

us england fans dont expect much at present- as allways we use the 6n's as a learning building experience

[Mad for Chelsea]

well I remember at least two by Corbisiero and the last one by Stevens, sure they were at least a couple more. BBC has them as only winning three in fact which seems very few for the game I was watching, but maybe I'm wrong.

The key stat of course is "points: Scotland 6, England 13"

[mystiroakey]

also if you wanna make out that ireland,wlaes and france would put 50 on us then lol its quite clear who is in fantasy land with dillusiojns of granduer

[eirebilly]

well I remember at least two by Corbisiero and the last one by Stevens, sure they were at least a couple more. BBC has them as only winning three in fact which seems very few for the game I was watching, but maybe I'm wrong.

The key stat of course is "points: Scotland 6, England 13"

I think that they cancel out turnovers that are lost immediately... Thats the only reason why only 4 turnovers for England have been recoreded. Personally i saw at least 8!!!!

[Gibson]

Sco ------------ Eng
238 Passes made 72
62 Tackles made 142

Its an unreal stat. I agree. Ive seen better schoolboy games.

But, in fairness to Lancaster (hes a lovely geezer. I like him) fortune favoured the brave today.
Momentum is everything and England can be proud, that a practically new squad, squeezed out a win at Murrayfield.

[eirebilly]

Sco ------------ Eng
238 Passes made 72
62 Tackles made 142

Its an unreal stat. I agree.

Leave it Gibbo. There is no point mate

[Mad for Chelsea]

yes yes Scotland had more posession, made more passes etc. but I think I clearly showed England were far more comfortable when Scotland had the ball than when they did. So it was in fact all along a cunning plan by England

Points scored when England had the ball:
England 3, Scotland 3
Points scored when Scotland had the ball:
England 10, Scotland 3

Now why would England want the ball ?

[Guest]

I had a read back of some of this thread.

It's amazing how bent out of shape some 'rival' posters get when England are playing. There's more passion in the posting than when their own side is playing.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Like I said before, your man Denton looks like a very handy player for Scotland indeed

[trebellbobaggins]

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

I am not convinced any will come close to doing that as this side will only get bettter but we will know soon enough. It's a building side, nobody is saying more.

[gowales]

I swear i couldn't tell the difference between Denton and Gray sometimes because of all that hair!

[eirebilly]

I swear i couldn't tell the difference between Denton and Gray sometimes because of all that hair!

Glad i was not alone

[ChequeredJersey]

I swear i couldn't tell the difference between Denton and Gray sometimes because of all that hair!

and the fact that they were both playing decent rugby

[Guest]

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

Does "No exaggeration" have as much power as "Fact" or "End of"?

[eirebilly]

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

Does "No exaggeration" have as much power as "Fact" or "End of"?

Of course it does.. are you new to forums

[gowales]

I swear i couldn't tell the difference between Denton and Gray sometimes because of all that hair!

and the fact that they were both playing decent rugby

Very true. Every time either of them carried the ball it was with aggression and purpose. Croft could learn a lot from them, he has to be dropped soon.

[ChequeredJersey]

Watching the match on iPlayer. Robshaw's captaincy was better than the last couple of Quins matches

[ChequeredJersey]

Also croft was better defensively than I thought

[ChequeredJersey]

For some player stats (don't look perfect but ok)
http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/match/133768.html
http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/match/133768.html

Obvs no breakdown work taken into account

[damngoodOvalball]

I think saying England will lose against Italy is a bit over the top.
Its very hard to have a good game up in Murryfield.

Paris is a lot more difficult to win in than Murrayfield mate.

Not really.

Yes really !!!

I know where your coming from maes, but if you look at englands recent records in Paris and Edinburgh it's clear that they do considerably better in Paris.

Well played Scotland. England were limited in attack but Scotland retained possession supremely well. I'm actually quite happy with the English team. Good d, and a few good fluid moves going forward. Not bad for what is essentially a brand new team

[ChequeredJersey]

Hodgson's defense, by the way, was exemplary - 9 tackles, no misses

[ChequeredJersey]

Farrell also better than I thought at first

[Hood83]

For some player stats (don't look perfect but ok)
http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/match/133768.html
http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/match/133768.html

Obvs no breakdown work taken into account

Appreciate the link, but i always think these are a crock. Robshaw ran 1metre? err, no.

[gowales]

Did anyone else find the 10 second countdown on the big screen to start the match completely unnecessary? They also had it during the world cup. The dragging out of pre-match stuff is bad enough, but now the referee has to be told to blow his whistle by that? I despair. Please just have the players run out, blow the whistle and start the game, nothing else.

[ChequeredJersey]

For some player stats (don't look perfect but ok)
http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/match/133768.html
http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/match/133768.html

Obvs no breakdown work taken into account

Appreciate the link, but i always think these are a crock. Robshaw ran 1metre? err, no.

Maybe he was driven back a lot in one of his runs? I don't think so though because I remember some driving mauls that made a bit of yardage that I don't see accounted for

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

People bang on about how good englands defence was, i really dont see where that comes from other than they werent conceding penalties. They were disorganised and getting caught out with mismatches and kept leaving big overlaps. 14 missed tackles to Scotlands none. They struggled to win turnovers other than by mistakes, although they did get a few Scotland had umpteen phases of possession before they came (according to espn they won 94% of their own rucks)
Against a side capable of holding the ball and moving at the same time England wouldve been walloped.
Lancaster really needs to do a bit more than just get Gary Neville to lecture them.

And does Palmers face keep expanding outwards each year?

[mystiroakey]

"i really dont see where that comes from other than they werent conceding penalties"

isnt that englands biggest problem, therefore the biggest positive to take from the game

[Notch]

Yeah, I agree. England conceded a number of line breaks. Missed some tackles. Do that against a team thats familiar with the concept of support lines...

What was good was their discipline and most of their scrummaging.

[Notch]

"i really dont see where that comes from other than they werent conceding penalties"

isnt that englands biggest problem, therefore the biggest positive to take from the game

Yeah, it's a big positive. Overall I think Lancaster will be pleased with that and that England will improve over the next few weeks.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

"i really dont see where that comes from other than they werent conceding penalties"

isnt that englands biggest problem, therefore the biggest positive to take from the game

OK Mr Borthwick....


See what it shows to me is

1) Not conceding penalties is not a magic wand to make England better.
2)Picking lots of young players is not a magic wand to make England better
3) Getting rid of Lewis Moody as Captain is not a magic wand to make England better.
4) Getting Gary Neville to lecture the side on how to wear shirts is not a magic wand to make England better.


They should probably all go out and get roaring drunk to forget about this game.

[ChequeredJersey]

For some player stats (don't look perfect but ok)
http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/match/133768.html
http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/match/133768.html

Obvs no breakdown work taken into account

Appreciate the link, but i always think these are a crock. Robshaw ran 1metre? err, no.

Maybe he was driven back a lot in one of his runs? I don't think so though because I remember some driving mauls that made a bit of yardage that I don't see accounted for

Watching the game again, he would have to be driven back a LOT in one run to only make 1 metre

[damngoodOvalball]

Çheck these stats. HOW did Scotland lose that?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16863670

scotlkand lost because england didnt give many penalty kicking opportunities- if you shut that out the rest is immaterial. scotland do not score tries- untill they can they wont be able to score enough to beat a team that is dicsiplined

Englands defence was good. Scotland still butchered 3 tries. It wasn't Englands defence that won them the game. It was Scotlands decision-making and pathetic ball handling in your 22.

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

Gibbo, I was telling my (totally uninterested) wife that any other 6N team would have punished us / taken the try scoring opportunities. But 50 points, really? When have any NH team put 50 on England? It was good to see a scot side flinging it wide but I genuinely believe that englands, admittedly high risk defence, forced them that way.
Of course I might be proved wrong but I doubt that your lot or the welsh or French would be able to trounce us..... (touch wood) (not that wood)

[mystiroakey]

irony is obviously gibsons strong point.

[eirebilly]

"i really dont see where that comes from other than they werent conceding penalties"

isnt that englands biggest problem, therefore the biggest positive to take from the game

OK Mr Borthwick....


See what it shows to me is

1) Not conceding penalties is not a magic wand to make England better.
2)Picking lots of young players is not a magic wand to make England better
3) Getting rid of Lewis Moody as Captain is not a magic wand to make England better.
4) Getting Gary Neville to lecture the side on how to wear shirts is not a magic wand to make England better.


They should probably all go out and get roaring drunk to forget about this game.

PSW made a funny

[Notch]

"i really dont see where that comes from other than they werent conceding penalties"

isnt that englands biggest problem, therefore the biggest positive to take from the game

OK Mr Borthwick....


See what it shows to me is

1) Not conceding penalties is not a magic wand to make England better.
2)Picking lots of young players is not a magic wand to make England better
3) Getting rid of Lewis Moody as Captain is not a magic wand to make England better.
4) Getting Gary Neville to lecture the side on how to wear shirts is not a magic wand to make England better.


They should probably all go out and get roaring drunk to forget about this game.

PSW made a funny

They'll go out in Edinburgh tonight, toss off some dwarfs, then come back a better team next weekend. Don't worry about it too much. Just enjoy the win.

[Duty281]

Things will only get better for England as it takes this new side to gel. Can I just say thank you Dan Parks for your helping hand. and roll on Italy.

Scotland = Wooden spoon

[mystiroakey]

a win is a win is a win!!

england gs on its way.

606v2 will be dead for a few weeks after, but i think i could handle that.

the only way to get the posters back would be for the england team to get caught out farting or getting a haircut or something. allways sells a few papers in wales that does

[ChequeredJersey]

I think you mean toss some dwarves. Tossing them off would be even more controversial

[mystiroakey]

I think you mean toss some dwarves. Tossing them off would be even more controversial

it would certainly kill a few rain forests thats for sure

[Biltong]

Like I said before, your man Denton looks like a very handy player for Scotland indeed

He reminds me of Ryan Kankowski when he just came onto the scene.

[Notch]

Look, I'm not here to judge

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