Scotland v England Match Thread, Teams etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Scotland:

15 Rory Lamont,
14 Lee Jones,
13 Nick De Luca,
12 Sean Lamont,
11 Max Evans,
10 Dan Parks,
9 Chris Cusiter;
8 David Denton,
7 Ross Rennie,
6 Alasdair Strokosch,
5 Jim Hamilton,
4 Richie Gray,
3 Euan Murray,
2 Ross Ford (captain),
1 Allan Jacobsen.

Replacements: Scott Lawson, Geoff Cross, Alastair Kellock, John Barclay, Mike Blair, Greig Laidlaw, Graeme Morrison.

Added Spice
The Scottish Rugby Union have been left embarassed after T-shirts boasting of a Calcutta Cup win appeared on sale five days before this Saturday's match.

The mistake by the SRU's online retail partner led to T-shirts from Scotland's win in 2008 being re-released.

The shirts bore the logo: "Calcutta Cup. Scotland. Winners."

The blunder comes days after Scotland head coach Andy Robinson stood by comments he made after the World Cup accusing England of 'arrogance'.

England Squad

15 Ben Foden;
14 Chris Ashton;
13 Brad Barritt,
12 Owen Farrell,
11 David Strettle;
10 Charlie Hodgson;
9 Ben Youngs;
1 Alex Corbisiero,
2 Dylan Hartley,
3 Dan Cole;
4 Mouritz Botha,
5 Tom Palmer;
6 Tom Croft,
7 Chris Robshaw (captain),
8 Phil Dowson.

Replacements: Rob Webber, Matt Stevens, Geoff Parling, Ben Morgan, Lee Dickson, Jordan Turner-Hall, Mike Brown.

[Biltong]

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

Does "No exaggeration" have as much power as "Fact" or "End of"?

Of course it does.. are you new to forums

You boys are very witty tonight.

[eirebilly]

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

Does "No exaggeration" have as much power as "Fact" or "End of"?

Of course it does.. are you new to forums

You boys are very witty tonight.

Poesklap.....or Koekemoer

[eirebilly]

a win is a win is a win!!

england gs on its way.

606v2 will be dead for a few weeks after, but i think i could handle that.

the only way to get the posters back would be for the england team to get caught out farting or getting a haircut or something. allways sells a few papers in wales that does

I guess the 240,000+ comments have all been about England loosing then.

[Biltong]

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

Does "No exaggeration" have as much power as "Fact" or "End of"?

Of course it does.. are you new to forums

You boys are very witty tonight.

Poesklap.....or Koekemoer

If you look at the abbreviation of that it is PK. KP had the same initals before he was PK'd out of SA.

[eirebilly]

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

Does "No exaggeration" have as much power as "Fact" or "End of"?

Of course it does.. are you new to forums

You boys are very witty tonight.

Poesklap.....or Koekemoer

If you look at the abbreviation of that it is PK. KP had the same initals before he was PK'd out of SA.

Good one, i just spat my drink out laughing at that

[Biltong]

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

Does "No exaggeration" have as much power as "Fact" or "End of"?

Of course it does.. are you new to forums

You boys are very witty tonight.

Poesklap.....or Koekemoer

If you look at the abbreviation of that it is PK. KP had the same initals before he was PK'd out of SA.

Good one, i just spat my drink out laughing at that

Yeah, not really my best work at this time of the evening.

[niwatts]

It's difficult to know what to make of Lancaster's plans for the backs after that game, they received very little ball, but whether it was tactical or not I certainly didn't see much sign of a distributing 10-12 axis.

The SHs had the ball on 47 occasions. Hodgson had the ball 18 times, of that he kicked a third. Farrell (who took over at FH after 63mins) received the ball on 8 occasions, kicking half of them, running twice and passing only twice. Barritt had the ball just 3 times. Strettle 3 times, Ashton 7 & Foden 11, though many of those were from fielding kicks.

I really hope we actually try running some ball next week and I think that would be better accomplished with Barritt in the IC channel.

[EngInAuck]

a win is a win is a win!!

england gs on its way.

606v2 will be dead for a few weeks after, but i think i could handle that.

the only way to get the posters back would be for the england team to get caught out farting or getting a haircut or something. allways sells a few papers in wales that does

[doctor_grey]

It's difficult to know what to make of Lancaster's plans for the backs after that game, they received very little ball, but whether it was tactical or not I certainly didn't see much sign of a distributing 10-12 axis.

The SHs had the ball on 47 occasions. Hodgson had the ball 18 times, of that he kicked a third. Farrell (who took over at FH after 63mins) received the ball on 8 occasions, kicking half of them, running twice and passing only twice. Barritt had the ball just 3 times. Strettle 3 times, Ashton 7 & Foden 11, though many of those were from fielding kicks.

I really hope we actually try running some ball next week and I think that would be better accomplished with Barritt in the IC channel.

As I said elsewhere, this increasingly appeared like a Saracens match when England had the ball, not an International. If you ant to see backs running the ball, don't get your hopes up when watching the Saracens 10, 11, 12, 13 play for England. And with Youngs delivering a ball as slow as Marmite, it wasn't going to improve. Not for lack of talent, but for how they play. The only one I want out there at the moment is Barritt. No wonder there were no line breaks, the defense had already reformed.

Crickey!

[englandglory4ever]

Having seen these vids the England win is even sweeter. (Lies back with huge grin on face).

[RDW]

Wow how disappointing was that? I'm far too angry and have had too many beers to be coherent just now so you can all wait for my thoughts tomorrow.

Here's a summary:

[blackcanelion]

I thought Scotland went close to taking out South Africa today. Barrit, Botha played well at times. If they selected a few more South African based players it probably wouldn't have been as close.

[DaveM]

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

No, that's definitely an exaggeration.

[ChequeredJersey]

Meanwhile the Australians on the pitch were also playing against Scotland, and I can't wait to see the Tongans play against Ireland tomorrow. Ps you missed our New Zealanders and Welshmen. Welcome to modern rugby

[PJHolybloke]

Well, to put it in context, I'm happy for England.

Youngsters, first cappers, new gaffer, away at Murrayfield and coming home with 4 points, that's a better result than for at least three teams this weekend.

That fixture away from home has broken far more experienced teams than the one that took the field tonight.

What you deserve doesn't count, you get what you earn. Well played fellas, good work.

[ChequeredJersey]

The telegraph has written some fairly poor articles on the match...

[PJHolybloke]

I thought Scotland went close to taking out South Africa today. Barrit, Botha played well at times. If they selected a few more South African based players it probably wouldn't have been as close.

I love the sound of breaking glass, it reminds me of people who live in glass houses but like to throw stones.

[blackcanelion]

Touche, even if the comment isn't accurate. On a more serious note. Not sure what to make of either team following the game.

[sportform]

Firstly (and this has probably be mentioned before) that the poll doesn't include any option for an England 7 point win.

This was a good game for England to start the Six Nations. In fact after a poor World Cup, the Six Nations' fixture list has been kind to England with two 'winnable' games. The aim is surely to build a team/ squad capable of competing with France, Ireland and Wales.

Today wasn't really about playing well but rather about 'getting a win' and integrating the new players.

[PJHolybloke]

Touche, even if the comment isn't accurate. On a more serious note. Not sure what to make of either team following the game.

My comment or yours?

Calcutta Cup games are not the kind of games you would advocate to non rugby lovers BC, to be fair, you have to be a rugby lover to sit through most of them.

The Scottish pack had more Test experience than the entire England starting XV, but Scotland made more mistakes and choked at the point of dishing out the killer blow time and time again, England made fewer mistakes and were almost 100% ruthless (the 50 metre penalty attempt early in the second half being the only exception) in putting points on the board when it mattered.

Scotland are starting to look like perennial bridesmaids and that belies the actual talent they produce from so little in the way of resources, they must feel very frustrated and that may be part of the problem, they must cut loose and score some tries to do themselves justice.

England were very businesslike and grafted out a win in a manner that suggested they were the team with the most experience.

There aren't many conclusions to be drawn from a Calcutta Cup game, it's a genuine one-off in the sporting calendar and the next games for both teams will paint a far better picture.

[Hound_of_Harrow]

+1 PJ

Defences dominated the game, but what the f...



Bath

[doctor_grey]

Looked vaguely familair to the last time they played.

[PJHolybloke]

+1 PJ

Defences dominated the game, but what the f...



Bath

Hound!

Very satisfied with the win, the boys did OK tonight.

Of course the big game of the weekend is tomorrow, 17:00, Sandy Park. 'Mon Barf!

[blackcanelion]

Thanks for that. I haven't seen the game yet. I guess I'm still trying to work out were Scotland are at moment. My feeling is they are at a similar level to the likes of Italy, Georgia and Samoa. It's always going to be hard given their limited base. So where does that put England? I'm guessing they'll push on as they develop as a team, but not sure of anything else as I don't know what to make of Scotland.

The SA comment was obviously tongue in cheek. I'd say Japan is a viable comparision (i.e. naturalised as professional players) rather than NZ.

[PJHolybloke]

Scotland seem to be stuck in a bit of a rut BC, they do have some genuinely talented players, but they aren't being given a chance to develop because Andy Robinson seems hell bent on sticking with experience. How do you gain experience if you're not given the chance?

I'm not sure whether or not England will push on from tonight's game bud, there's genuine potential for fireworks amongst the backline, but I fear they'll see little in the way of ball.

The loosies are not prolific ball winners and Hodgson is not the best pick for chucking out decent ball.

I would say England have a fair to good chance of beating Italy away next week, but after that, Wales (home), France (away) and Ireland (home) are three games I wouldn't want to put a cent on.

For me, if England finish third in the table with 2 good performances I'll consider it a decent campaign, it's a fresh start for England and I don't expect thejm to be pulling up trees for a while.

I wasn't particularly fussed by the SA comment BC, it just seems to me that England get singled out for treatment on something they aren't uniquely guilty of.

Of tonight's team , I could argue that Barritt was the only player not to have had his skills honed in the English Game, all of the others are either English or England Qualified as a direct result of the rugby program in this country. Let's be honest, Botha was a broken husk of a Saffer when he came here to play for Bedford Athletic in the Midlands 1 league 5 years ago, we're talking third division rugby right there.

[stlowe]

Let's be honest, Botha was a broken husk of a Saffer when he came here to play for Bedford Athletic in the Midlands 1 league 5 years ago, we're talking third division rugby right there.

His first season for Bedford Athletic was 2004.

[Gibson]

Çheck these stats. HOW did Scotland lose that?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16863670

scotlkand lost because england didnt give many penalty kicking opportunities- if you shut that out the rest is immaterial. scotland do not score tries- untill they can they wont be able to score enough to beat a team that is dicsiplined

Englands defence was good. Scotland still butchered 3 tries. It wasn't Englands defence that won them the game. It was Scotlands decision-making and pathetic ball handling in your 22.

Dont get illusions of grandeur. Italy, in Rome - will be a lot tougher than that. France, Wales or Ireland would have put 50 on that English side. No exaggeration.

Gibbo, I was telling my (totally uninterested) wife that any other 6N team would have punished us / taken the try scoring opportunities. But 50 points, really? When have any NH team put 50 on England? It was good to see a scot side flinging it wide but I genuinely believe that englands, admittedly high risk defence, forced them that way.
Of course I might be proved wrong but I doubt that your lot or the welsh or French would be able to trounce us..... (touch wood) (not that wood)

Mysti got it right Damngood. Irony and exaggeration to get a point across. Ok 20+ pts then.

In fact, being a rugby man, I should have been more maganimous and said. Well Done England. That young team will grow together as a unit in this 6-N. And you should be proud of what Lancaster has achieved in a short space of time. Your discipline was 100% improved. And it was great to see the raw passion back in the White shirt.

Hope that serves to redress any perceived imbalance in my post.

Believe.

[english warrior]

England did what they had to today and came away with a win, which is always hard in Scotland, so with a sigh of relief, well done and now lets see what a bit of positivity can do for such an inexperienced side. Hopefully as they get to know each other the skills and game plan should improve. here's hoping!!

[englandglory4ever]

Seems like a lot of Celts are tipping Italy to beat England. Where does that leave Scotland? The rubbish heap? Probably.

[eirebilly]

Seems like a lot of Celts are tipping Italy to beat England. Where does that leave Scotland? The rubbish heap? Probably.

I think that Italy will fancy their chances against both England and Scotland to be honest. England should get better but i have my doubts if Scotland will.

[mystiroakey]

its a constant hope rather than a tip.

it was scoitland last week- italy this week, then on and on and on.

personally i cant see italy winning a single game this time around- id back scotland and england.
Italy can be a tough place to go, however the game yesterday involving scotland and england is gonna have no bearing on the results v italy.

i think italy could just go in as bookies favs v scotland- however at best i see the game being a 50/50.

scotland are a very hard team to beat(well certainly for us english anyway), are italy going to be disciplined enough?

[english warrior]

Onwards and upwards for England and who knows what might happen in this 6 nations.

I'd love England to repeat last years results, but hey if they get 3 out of 5 i'll be happy and as long as the Welsh are back in the Engine room, then the worlds fine. Good hunting and have a great tournament! All except the people from a certain 'Principality' that is.

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