The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub, Georgia

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat. The pub has ventured to Georgia, because rugbydreamer wants the Scarlets to find a nice forward out there.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the pictures of birthday boy Hughie, Chris Budgen, Leo Cullen, Brian O'Driscoll, Paddy Wallace, Tomas O'Leary and a red faced Ronan O'Gara on the wall.




Old Pub:https://www.606v2.com/t26870p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-shebeen-queen-at-ellis-park-johannesburg#1115697

Leinster manager Guy Easterby is confident that a deal can be brokered with Luke Fitzgerald before the HC Semi final. Love it.

Basically Leinster aren’t allowed to negotiate with him until the IRFU do. Basically the IRFU are playing hardball on the wage and Leinster can’t step in and say that we’ll pay him what he wants and he’ll be contracted to us, because then the IRFU won’t own his image rights. This is a really bizarre situation to be honest, I’m pretty confused…

Are you saying that the most photogenic players get paid more?

Yeah, that’s why Leo Cullen has the biggest contract in Europe!

Well he certainly would if they were paid by "Ear Yardage"!

Now you’re just being hurtful. Leo is a beautiful man, on the inside. You should see Gibbo swoon when he passes us by after a match – “oh captain my captain! ”

Mickado wrote:Yeah, that’s why Leo Cullen has the biggest contract in Europe!

Nah that because they designed the HEC trophy in the shape of his head.

Morning everyone .

Hey question does any one know if there are HEC final tickets left? If so, would it be too late to buy them after the SF?

There are some left and there will be an allocation to the 2 teams that reach the final.

7,500 rings a bell.

STHs have priority.

OK but they are on sale now right?

Hadn't planned to go but the draw of an Ulster v Leinster/Clermont final is proving extremely hard to resist..........

I think you can get them on ticketmaster.

Mickado wrote:Now you’re just being hurtful. Leo is a beautiful man, on the inside. You should see Gibbo swoon when he passes us by after a match – “oh captain my captain! ”

I can imagine it!

7500 is correct. With almost 4000 season ticket holders that won't go far.

Rodders if I were you I would get on Ticketmaster and take a punt. If you find you are unable to go when the time comes I suspect you will be able to offload that quite easily.

Mind you there might be a few spare one's down Munster way

MrsP wrote:I think you can get them on ticketmaster.

Ticket Prices £35*, £45*, £60, £75 & Group Offer 4 person ticket for £100.00*
(*Public allocation at these prices currently sold out)

www.ticketmaster.co.uk/heinekencupfinal

Mickado wrote:Now you’re just being hurtful. Leo is a beautiful man, on the inside. You should see Gibbo swoon when he passes us by after a match – “oh captain my captain! ”

Not being hurtful. I like Leo. Just saying those ears are impressive.

I remeber when someone was accused of gouging Cullen. They said they weren't sure where exactly their fingers were and that they thought it was his ear. All credibilty lost right there. How could anyone mistake anything for Leo Cullen's ears?

Hmm yeah good shout rava.... might just do that.

I've already exceeded my rugby match attending quota this year but hey ho one more won't hurt I suppose ......

Have to say I've been having Limerick withdrawal symptoms since the weekend. Brilliant place. Makes me all the more frustrated at the feicin state of this place.......

You dissing my city Rodders?

No I'm dissing mine!

Belfast is a great place .

roddersm wrote:Hmm yeah good shout rava.... might just do that.

I've already exceeded my rugby match attending quota this year but hey ho one more won't hurt I suppose ......

Have to say I've been having Limerick withdrawal symptoms since the weekend. Brilliant place. Makes me all the more frustrated at the feicin state of this place.......

Don't forget the possibility of another trip to Limerick/Dublin in the Rabo mate

I overdosed on away trips last year. Had to cut down a wee bit this time but ..............

£60 tickets still available? I might have to look in to that - once I've got this month's rent out of the way.

Rava wrote:
Don't forget the possibility of another trip to Limerick/Dublin in the Rabo mate

.... actually yeah that is a good point .... Nah think this will be me... would love to get an away trip to Belfast for the Leinster game next week though.....

roddersm wrote:OK but they are on sale now right?

Hadn't planned to go but the draw of an Ulster v Leinster/Clermont final is proving extremely hard to resist..........

Not rising to your bait, rodders!

Found this website that focuses on transfers (mostly confirmed, some rumours) - seems decent:
Rabo Pro12
Aviva Premiership
Top 14

sorry didn't mean it that way! Not dismissing Edinburgh at all!

Thats why I don't even want to think about the final...... although its hard not to.....

Tickets for the final are usually easy enough to come by. Supporters of all 4 teams in the semi will buy a load of them and if you make it there will usually be a few people not wanting to go any more.

I’d hate to count my chickens before the hatch, so I’ll hold off on buying any tickets until I know where my team’s at. I would be interested in going to the Ulster game in Lansdowne though, will see what the ticket situation is like when I’m paid.

As, just looking at the Rabo ins/outs and was wondering if Ritchie Gray would reconsider his move now given the reasonable success of both Scottish Clubs since he made his decision.

Rava wrote:As, just looking at the Rabo ins/outs and was wondering if Ritchie Gray would reconsider his move now given the reasonable success of both Scottish Clubs since he made his decision.

Reconsider his move and decide to join Leinster?

Yeah, you'd think so...

Mickado wrote:

Rava wrote:As, just looking at the Rabo ins/outs and was wondering if Ritchie Gray would reconsider his move now given the reasonable success of both Scottish Clubs since he made his decision.

Reconsider his move and decide to join Leinster?

Yeah, you'd think so...

The lack of Heino rugby for Sale next year could be a deterrent, but I suspect that the big fella is supremely loyal to his word and will stick with the move. There were rumours that Toulouse offered to buy him out of his Sale contract, but haven't heard anything since. Altho with the Chiefs picking up Ian Evans, I've heard he's taking a close look at Exe

ha Asbo you do make me smile!

And morning all, hope everyone's well

Morning Dreamer, isn't this a virtual Friday for you?

rugbydreamer wrote:ha Asbo you do make me smile!

I aim to please (miss most of the time, but at least I'm aiming - rather like Gib's visits to the john)

nah Lucky, still got to come into work tomorrow, but I did have Tuesday off, so tis still a 3 day week for me

Asbo -

Morning all. The Welsh lass in our team is back from her honeymoon in Mexico, and she's brought back tequila liquers. Hic.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

roddersm wrote:OK but they are on sale now right?

Hadn't planned to go but the draw of an Ulster v Leinster/Clermont final is proving extremely hard to resist..........

Not rising to your bait, rodders!

Found this website that focuses on transfers (mostly confirmed, some rumours) - seems decent:
Rabo Pro12
Aviva Premiership
Top 14

Just looking through that, these are the ones that stood out for me as maybe being shrewd pieces of business-


Daniel Evans- Dragons
WP Nel- Edinburgh
Viliame Ma’Afu- Glasgow
Sione Kalamafoni- Gloucester
Richie Gray- Sale
Sona Taumalolo- Perpignan
Johnnie Beattie- Montpellier

if the Drags can get any sort of consistency out of Dan Evs then it could turn out to be a very good signing indeed. I still have fond memories of some of his amazing games for us, especially one against LI, so if he does go to them, really hope he can find himself back in good form.

Munsty I would include Ulster's signing of Wilson on your list.

I'd include Connacht's signing of Willie Faloon first

Justify it and I'll add him.

Rava wrote:Munsty I would include Ulster's signing of Wilson on your list.

I thought that Wilson was deemed to be a less good version of Wannenburg, Rav?

Lunch time. Having some of my aunt's famous chocolate cake. Mmmmmmm

Indeed, Roger wilson is a first class No 8 - and Wannenburg is away back to Saffaland after this season, no?

Thought that this was worth sharing from the Grauniad:

LIES, DAMNED LIES, AND STATISTICS

Do statistics lie or do they contain, as Lord Courtney once argued, figures the simplest must understand and the astutest cannot wriggle out of? Corris Thomas, the former international referee who is the International Rugby Board's game analysis unit head, has produced the statistical review and match analysis of this year's Six Nations. It contains, among many other things, two simple truths: tries are becoming scarcer and the scrum has so declined in influence – England's match against Ireland was very much an exception – that it is often barely relevant.
Two of Wales's key games in the Six Nations were against England at Twickenham and France in Cardiff. The ball emerged from the scrum a mere seven times in the two matches, four in the first and three in the second. There was a period of 36 minutes at Twickenham from the end of the first quarter when there was not one scrum: in that time, there were 121 rucks/mauls. Wales had possession from the scrum on 14 occasions in the entire championship, compared with 47 in 2005, when they also won the grand slam.

Thomas's analysis of last year's World Cup showed that, in matches between tier one nations, 50 scrums out of 100 collapsed, there were 31 resets per 100 and 41 free-kicks or penalties per 100. Those figures were virtually identical in the Six Nations; 49, 33 and 39 respectively. When tier two nations play each other, collapses occur 19 times every 100 scrums, resets nine in 100 and there are 17 penalties or free-kicks every 100 scrums. In other words, the set piece is a far richer source of possession than it is when leading countries face each other.

Thomas worked out that the 20 scrums during the match between Ireland and Scotland in Dublin turned into eight collapses, seven resets and seven penalties, a process that took up more than one-quarter of the total playing time; 21 minutes. It was far less a means of restarting play than restopping it.

With the lineout also declining in influence, the breakdown has become the key battleground. In the 1995 World Cup, the last in the amateur era, the average match saw the ball used from 27 scrums and 37 lineouts. Those figures last year dropped to 17 and 24 respectively. In 1995, 69 rucks/mauls yielded possession. In 2011, the number rose to 162. With the ball in play time up from 33% to 44% and passes increasing from 179 a match to 263, there was more action but the landscape had changed in 16 years.

The difference with the 1970s was starker still. Thomas studied internationals played between 1971 and 1973, including the Barbarians against New Zealand, but was restricted in the number of matches he was able to view because of the lack of a broadcast archive: tapes had been lost or wiped. The average match then generated 101 set pieces, 63 lineouts and 38 scrums, and there were 31 rucks/mauls. In the 2000 Six Nations, the set-piece number had dropped to 58 (31 lineouts, 27 scrums), and the rucks/mauls totalled 116. This year, lineouts and scrums were down to 37 (23 lineouts, 14 scrums, only eight of which saw the ball used) and rucks/mauls had risen to 181.

Of the 14 scrums in an average match in this year's Six Nations, the ball came back from eight of them. Wales's possession from the scrum came on a mere 3.5 occasions per match, compared with a figure of 109 from rucks/mauls. As for tries, Wales's total of 10 was the fewest of any team that had won the grand slam since the start of the Six Nations. The first four slams, achieved by France (twice), England and Wales, generated a total of 64 tries; the next four, Wales (twice), Ireland and France, witnessed 48, a drop of 25%.

England's record in the 2011 and 2012 Six Nations was the same as it had been in 2001 and 2002 – won eight, lost two – but their total of 20 tries compared with 51 in the two seasons a decade before. That is an extreme example, but the average of 3.1 tries a match in this year's tournament was the lowest since the 1990s and 40% lower than 10 years before, yet the ball was being passed far more and kicked appreciably less.
The most productive area for tries was the lineout, 13 of the 46 scored; four came from attacking scrums and 12 from turnovers, a significant number given the retention rate of more than 93% of teams taking the ball into a breakdown. None of the tries from lineouts came directly from driving mauls, and England and France did not manage one from the set piece between them. France did not create a try from a scrum, either, England breaking their duck against Ireland on the final day, and Les Bleus scored all their eight tries after receiving the ball from the opposition, twice after returning kicks and six following turnovers.

Given the high number of rucks and mauls in a match, it is not surprising that the breakdown was where 51% of the penalties were awarded. The other area that vexed referees was the scrum which, despite the relatively small number awarded, accounted for 25% of the penalties. One reason for the scrum becoming such a mess, leaving aside the crouch, touch, pause, engage rigmarole, is that since opposing backs have been told to stand five metres behind the feet of their No8, defending teams have focused on spoiling a potentially profitable source of possession.

Yet lineouts are yielding tries and not causing referees anxiety: 1% of the penalties awarded in the 2012 Six Nations came from the set piece compared with more than 28% of the tries.

The decline in the number of tries in the Six Nations started when other countries followed England in appointing a specialist defence coach, usually someone with a rugby league background: England's number of tries dropped each year after 2001 until 2008, 28 to eight, and what the Six Nations figures show is that a team are most likely to score a try either when they win a turnover and take advantage of a disorganised defence or are able to use quick ball from a set piece and take on a defensive line that is not cluttered by forwards.

Thomas offers facts rather than opinions and his comparisons with the recent and more distant past show not only that rugby union is an evolving game but one which, arguably, has changed more in nature and character than any other team sport in the past 40 years.

PASSIVE RUCKS

One area of contention, which sends Brian Moore into fury mode on television, is what could be called the passive ruck, where the ball is ready and available but the scrum-half dithers and dallies as he organises the next attack. It has become an effective time-wasting tactic and the IRB is to trial a change next season that will see referees able to award the opposition a scrum if the ball is not used after five seconds.

England's victory over Scotland at Murrayfield on the opening weekend of the Six Nations contained 19 rucks that lasted for more than five seconds. Teams took between seven and 23 seconds to move the ball and the total time taken up ball-watching was a few seconds under four minutes.
That amounted to nearly 10% of the ball in play time. Had the trial been in operation last February, spectators would have been treated to an extra two minutes and 23 seconds of action; or a couple of scrums.

IS BIGGER BEAUTIFUL?

The size of the Wales back division which made the Six Nations champions, the heaviest side in the tournament, weighed on average 4lb a man more than the next bulkiest, Scotland. They were nearly a stone a man heavier than the lightest side, England, and Wales's seven backs were considerably heavier than Wales's eight forwards had been in 1960.
The difference in the 1960 and 2012 sides behind the scrum was marked: the two wings this year were more than 4st heavier than their predecessors, more like 5st in the case of Alex Cuthbert, and the only position where the difference was less than a stone was full-back. The scrum-half in 1960 was Onllwyn Brace. He weighed 9st 10lb, somewhat lighter than Mike Phillips, but only by 6st 3lb.

When Australia beat France 59-16 in Paris in 2010, two of their three-quarter line weighed less than 14st and the heaviest was a few pounds over 15st, more than two stone a player lighter than Wales's centres and wings this year.

RELEGATION TWIST

The relegation battle in the Aviva Premiership may be given an added twist with Wasps likely to go into administration in a month unless they find a new investor. Wasps, who are eight points ahead of the bottom club Newcastle with three rounds of matches to play, have enough money to continue trading until the end of the season, but not much beyond that.
Clubs in the Premiership and Championship who become insolvent have come to be docked 15 points, which if applied to Wasps could result in relegation. Coventry and Birmingham-Solihull both went into administration during a season (2009-10), while Richmond and London Scottish did so in 1999 and were immediately thrown out of the Premiership.

Wasps hope that if they have to call in the administrators, doing so in the close season would not see them docked points. But while their season ends on 5 May because they will not be involved in the Premiership play-offs or the semi-finals of the Amlin Challenge Cup, the campaign officially rumbles on until the end of the month.

It could be another case for the bewigged fraternity, and Newcastle were on the telephone to Premiership Rugby as soon as they heard about Wasps' plight, not so much scenting an escape route as wanting to ensure proper procedure would be followed. It may be that there is no relegation this year. Of the four teams pushing for the Championship title, only Bristol have a realistic chance of passing the entry criteria. Cornish Pirates and Bedford did not bother to go through the process, and although Leeds and Nottingham did, their cause is hopeless.

That leaves London Welsh. They believe they would fulfil the criteria groundsharing with Brentford, but after the problems Rotherham had a decade ago when they first submitted plans to move in with Rotherham United, they had better ensure that the urinals at Griffin Park are not only numerous but well spaced out.

MORE RUNNING, LESS KICKING

Back to statistics and the good old days of the 1980s. There seems to be a belief, reading the Spectator and the letter pages of the Times this month, that there is more kicking and less running in the modern game. Not only is the opposite true, it is markedly so. The average number of kicks out of hand in a match has dropped by more than half since the end of the 1970s and the number of passes has increased by some 75%. Corris Thomas excavated these gems from the 1980s:
• The Irish forwards made only three passes in the entire game against Australia in 1984.
• By the 18th minute of England's game against New Zealand in 1983, the entire England team had made only one pass between them.
• The average match today has seven minutes more ball in play time than the 1980s.

The internet at work went down over an hour ago and it's only just come back on. I think I should have an early finish to recover from the trauma.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Rava wrote:Munsty I would include Ulster's signing of Wilson on your list.

I thought that Wilson was deemed to be a less good version of Wannenburg, Rav?

Deemed by whom, Asbo. My thoughts are that he is equally as good and frees up a NIQ spot for another massive SH signing most likely a N. Zealander as Anscombe will want to surround himself with as many of those as possible and will be very wary of the perceived influence of the Saffers in getting McGlock removed from his coaching post.

interesting read that Asbo

Lucky - it's a wonder you've survived

Rava wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Rava wrote:Munsty I would include Ulster's signing of Wilson on your list.

I thought that Wilson was deemed to be a less good version of Wannenburg, Rav?

Deemed by whom, Asbo. My thoughts are that he is equally as good and frees up a NIQ spot for another massive SH signing most likely a N. Zealander as Anscombe will want to surround himself with as many of those as possible and will be very wary of the perceived influence of the Saffers in getting McGlock removed from his coaching post.

Can't believe you'd fall for the McGlock fairy tales?! The general consensus on the Ulster threads seemed to me to indicate Wilson not quite as good as PW - delighted for you if that's not the case

It was touch and go, Dreamer!

but you managed to pull through


can not wait for my lunch break, my eyes need a break from the computer screen, 3 hrs of working on spreadsheets this morning has made me feel

Rava wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Rava wrote:Munsty I would include Ulster's signing of Wilson on your list.

I thought that Wilson was deemed to be a less good version of Wannenburg, Rav?

Deemed by whom, Asbo. My thoughts are that he is equally as good

Aww Rava come on man, Wannenburg has 10 caps for the springboks, Wilson has an Ireland A cap.

No way is Roger Wilson on par with Pedre! Take those Ulster googles off sir!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Rava wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Rava wrote:Munsty I would include Ulster's signing of Wilson on your list.

I thought that Wilson was deemed to be a less good version of Wannenburg, Rav?

Deemed by whom, Asbo. My thoughts are that he is equally as good and frees up a NIQ spot for another massive SH signing most likely a N. Zealander as Anscombe will want to surround himself with as many of those as possible and will be very wary of the perceived influence of the Saffers in getting McGlock removed from his coaching post.

Can't believe you'd fall for the McGlock fairy tales?! The general consensus on the Ulster threads seemed to me to indicate Wilson not quite as good as PW - delighted for you if that's not the case

Firstly I don't believe the fairy tales, I added that as tic comment given the postings elsewhere.

If you go back far enough in articles and threads those same posters wanted Wannenberg replaced in the team not long ago. I suspect they are basing their perceptions on a very good run of form particularly in the HC.
My conclusion is based on what I have seen from both over the past couple of years (longer in Wilson's case obviously). Has there been a more consistent performer in the AP in the last three years? I'm very happy at getting Wilson. I don't see there being any detriment to the team.

roddersm wrote:

Rava wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Rava wrote:Munsty I would include Ulster's signing of Wilson on your list.

I thought that Wilson was deemed to be a less good version of Wannenburg, Rav?

Deemed by whom, Asbo. My thoughts are that he is equally as good

Aww Rava come on man, Wannenburg has 10 caps for the springboks, Wilson has an Ireland A cap.

No way is Roger Wilson on par with Pedre! Take those Ulster googles off sir!

Surely that has more to do with where he has played his rugby for the last few years and his perceived "bad boy" image.

Rava wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Rava wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Rava wrote:Munsty I would include Ulster's signing of Wilson on your list.

I thought that Wilson was deemed to be a less good version of Wannenburg, Rav?

Deemed by whom, Asbo. My thoughts are that he is equally as good and frees up a NIQ spot for another massive SH signing most likely a N. Zealander as Anscombe will want to surround himself with as many of those as possible and will be very wary of the perceived influence of the Saffers in getting McGlock removed from his coaching post.

Can't believe you'd fall for the McGlock fairy tales?! The general consensus on the Ulster threads seemed to me to indicate Wilson not quite as good as PW - delighted for you if that's not the case

Firstly I don't believe the fairy tales, I added that as tic comment given the postings elsewhere.

If you go back far enough in articles and threads those same posters wanted Wannenberg replaced in the team not long ago. I suspect they are basing their perceptions on a very good run of form particularly in the HC.
My conclusion is based on what I have seen from both over the past couple of years (longer in Wilson's case obviously). Has there been a more consistent performer in the AP in the last three years? I'm very happy at getting Wilson. I don't see there being any detriment to the team.

This time last year, Wannenburg seemed to be able to do no wrong, then his form dipped earlier this season, but has picked up again in big games recently. Having watched Wilson over the last couple of years, I can honestly say that I haven't noticed him that much - perhaps he's just doing a very good job quietly! Anyhew, let's have this discussion again in a year's time?

Just so you know. I am a massive Wannenberg fan and I would have been delighted if he had stayed. That wasn't to be but I am happy with his replacement as I have said.