The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub, Georgia

Rava wrote:
Surely that has more to do with where he has played his rugby for the last few years and his perceived "bad boy" image.

Notch wrote:Wilson only really loses out to Wannenburg in the lineout. Other than that they are about the same. Very similar style.

Hopefully Diack recovers some form next season too as he's been playing way below his potential. As it is, Wilson is replacing Wannenburg but the club wanted both players. We just lost out on Pedrie because the IRFU will only allow one-year contract extensions for NIQ players over 30 and he wanted more security.

roddersm wrote:Notch Pedre is much faster and has better hands than Wilson. He also has a better workrate and gets around the pitch more.

Wilson is bigger and perhaps more physical.

I don't think they are particularly similar.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Thought that this was worth sharing from the Grauniad:

LIES, DAMNED LIES, AND STATISTICS

Do statistics lie or do they contain, as Lord Courtney once argued, figures the simplest must understand and the astutest cannot wriggle out of? Corris Thomas, the former international referee who is the International Rugby Board's game analysis unit head, has produced the statistical review and match analysis of this year's Six Nations. It contains, among many other things, two simple truths: tries are becoming scarcer and the scrum has so declined in influence – England's match against Ireland was very much an exception – that it is often barely relevant.
Two of Wales's key games in the Six Nations were against England at Twickenham and France in Cardiff. The ball emerged from the scrum a mere seven times in the two matches, four in the first and three in the second. There was a period of 36 minutes at Twickenham from the end of the first quarter when there was not one scrum: in that time, there were 121 rucks/mauls. Wales had possession from the scrum on 14 occasions in the entire championship, compared with 47 in 2005, when they also won the grand slam.

Thomas's analysis of last year's World Cup showed that, in matches between tier one nations, 50 scrums out of 100 collapsed, there were 31 resets per 100 and 41 free-kicks or penalties per 100. Those figures were virtually identical in the Six Nations; 49, 33 and 39 respectively. When tier two nations play each other, collapses occur 19 times every 100 scrums, resets nine in 100 and there are 17 penalties or free-kicks every 100 scrums. In other words, the set piece is a far richer source of possession than it is when leading countries face each other.

Thomas worked out that the 20 scrums during the match between Ireland and Scotland in Dublin turned into eight collapses, seven resets and seven penalties, a process that took up more than one-quarter of the total playing time; 21 minutes. It was far less a means of restarting play than restopping it.

With the lineout also declining in influence, the breakdown has become the key battleground. In the 1995 World Cup, the last in the amateur era, the average match saw the ball used from 27 scrums and 37 lineouts. Those figures last year dropped to 17 and 24 respectively. In 1995, 69 rucks/mauls yielded possession. In 2011, the number rose to 162. With the ball in play time up from 33% to 44% and passes increasing from 179 a match to 263, there was more action but the landscape had changed in 16 years.

The difference with the 1970s was starker still. Thomas studied internationals played between 1971 and 1973, including the Barbarians against New Zealand, but was restricted in the number of matches he was able to view because of the lack of a broadcast archive: tapes had been lost or wiped. The average match then generated 101 set pieces, 63 lineouts and 38 scrums, and there were 31 rucks/mauls. In the 2000 Six Nations, the set-piece number had dropped to 58 (31 lineouts, 27 scrums), and the rucks/mauls totalled 116. This year, lineouts and scrums were down to 37 (23 lineouts, 14 scrums, only eight of which saw the ball used) and rucks/mauls had risen to 181.

Of the 14 scrums in an average match in this year's Six Nations, the ball came back from eight of them. Wales's possession from the scrum came on a mere 3.5 occasions per match, compared with a figure of 109 from rucks/mauls. As for tries, Wales's total of 10 was the fewest of any team that had won the grand slam since the start of the Six Nations. The first four slams, achieved by France (twice), England and Wales, generated a total of 64 tries; the next four, Wales (twice), Ireland and France, witnessed 48, a drop of 25%.

England's record in the 2011 and 2012 Six Nations was the same as it had been in 2001 and 2002 – won eight, lost two – but their total of 20 tries compared with 51 in the two seasons a decade before. That is an extreme example, but the average of 3.1 tries a match in this year's tournament was the lowest since the 1990s and 40% lower than 10 years before, yet the ball was being passed far more and kicked appreciably less.
The most productive area for tries was the lineout, 13 of the 46 scored; four came from attacking scrums and 12 from turnovers, a significant number given the retention rate of more than 93% of teams taking the ball into a breakdown. None of the tries from lineouts came directly from driving mauls, and England and France did not manage one from the set piece between them. France did not create a try from a scrum, either, England breaking their duck against Ireland on the final day, and Les Bleus scored all their eight tries after receiving the ball from the opposition, twice after returning kicks and six following turnovers.

Given the high number of rucks and mauls in a match, it is not surprising that the breakdown was where 51% of the penalties were awarded. The other area that vexed referees was the scrum which, despite the relatively small number awarded, accounted for 25% of the penalties. One reason for the scrum becoming such a mess, leaving aside the crouch, touch, pause, engage rigmarole, is that since opposing backs have been told to stand five metres behind the feet of their No8, defending teams have focused on spoiling a potentially profitable source of possession.

Yet lineouts are yielding tries and not causing referees anxiety: 1% of the penalties awarded in the 2012 Six Nations came from the set piece compared with more than 28% of the tries.

The decline in the number of tries in the Six Nations started when other countries followed England in appointing a specialist defence coach, usually someone with a rugby league background: England's number of tries dropped each year after 2001 until 2008, 28 to eight, and what the Six Nations figures show is that a team are most likely to score a try either when they win a turnover and take advantage of a disorganised defence or are able to use quick ball from a set piece and take on a defensive line that is not cluttered by forwards.

Thomas offers facts rather than opinions and his comparisons with the recent and more distant past show not only that rugby union is an evolving game but one which, arguably, has changed more in nature and character than any other team sport in the past 40 years.

PASSIVE RUCKS

One area of contention, which sends Brian Moore into fury mode on television, is what could be called the passive ruck, where the ball is ready and available but the scrum-half dithers and dallies as he organises the next attack. It has become an effective time-wasting tactic and the IRB is to trial a change next season that will see referees able to award the opposition a scrum if the ball is not used after five seconds.

England's victory over Scotland at Murrayfield on the opening weekend of the Six Nations contained 19 rucks that lasted for more than five seconds. Teams took between seven and 23 seconds to move the ball and the total time taken up ball-watching was a few seconds under four minutes.
That amounted to nearly 10% of the ball in play time. Had the trial been in operation last February, spectators would have been treated to an extra two minutes and 23 seconds of action; or a couple of scrums.

IS BIGGER BEAUTIFUL?

The size of the Wales back division which made the Six Nations champions, the heaviest side in the tournament, weighed on average 4lb a man more than the next bulkiest, Scotland. They were nearly a stone a man heavier than the lightest side, England, and Wales's seven backs were considerably heavier than Wales's eight forwards had been in 1960.
The difference in the 1960 and 2012 sides behind the scrum was marked: the two wings this year were more than 4st heavier than their predecessors, more like 5st in the case of Alex Cuthbert, and the only position where the difference was less than a stone was full-back. The scrum-half in 1960 was Onllwyn Brace. He weighed 9st 10lb, somewhat lighter than Mike Phillips, but only by 6st 3lb.

When Australia beat France 59-16 in Paris in 2010, two of their three-quarter line weighed less than 14st and the heaviest was a few pounds over 15st, more than two stone a player lighter than Wales's centres and wings this year.

RELEGATION TWIST

The relegation battle in the Aviva Premiership may be given an added twist with Wasps likely to go into administration in a month unless they find a new investor. Wasps, who are eight points ahead of the bottom club Newcastle with three rounds of matches to play, have enough money to continue trading until the end of the season, but not much beyond that.
Clubs in the Premiership and Championship who become insolvent have come to be docked 15 points, which if applied to Wasps could result in relegation. Coventry and Birmingham-Solihull both went into administration during a season (2009-10), while Richmond and London Scottish did so in 1999 and were immediately thrown out of the Premiership.

Wasps hope that if they have to call in the administrators, doing so in the close season would not see them docked points. But while their season ends on 5 May because they will not be involved in the Premiership play-offs or the semi-finals of the Amlin Challenge Cup, the campaign officially rumbles on until the end of the month.

It could be another case for the bewigged fraternity, and Newcastle were on the telephone to Premiership Rugby as soon as they heard about Wasps' plight, not so much scenting an escape route as wanting to ensure proper procedure would be followed. It may be that there is no relegation this year. Of the four teams pushing for the Championship title, only Bristol have a realistic chance of passing the entry criteria. Cornish Pirates and Bedford did not bother to go through the process, and although Leeds and Nottingham did, their cause is hopeless.

That leaves London Welsh. They believe they would fulfil the criteria groundsharing with Brentford, but after the problems Rotherham had a decade ago when they first submitted plans to move in with Rotherham United, they had better ensure that the urinals at Griffin Park are not only numerous but well spaced out.

MORE RUNNING, LESS KICKING

Back to statistics and the good old days of the 1980s. There seems to be a belief, reading the Spectator and the letter pages of the Times this month, that there is more kicking and less running in the modern game. Not only is the opposite true, it is markedly so. The average number of kicks out of hand in a match has dropped by more than half since the end of the 1970s and the number of passes has increased by some 75%. Corris Thomas excavated these gems from the 1980s:
• The Irish forwards made only three passes in the entire game against Australia in 1984.
• By the 18th minute of England's game against New Zealand in 1983, the entire England team had made only one pass between them.
• The average match today has seven minutes more ball in play time than the 1980s.

roddersm wrote:Has Wilson been on the slimfast?

There you go then Pedre is bigger too. We're totally feiced.....

Notch wrote:Of course they are rodders. They are both physical 8s who like to carry the ball in close quarters and are known for exceptionally high workrates.

Asbo I thought that just showed how out of touch the Guardians rugby coverage is. When I saw 'The Breakdown' arrive in my inbox I opened it quickly hoping for some coverage of the Heineken Cup quarter finals. Instead, they had some snore of a statistical analysis of the Six Nations- a tournament that has been over for weeks and won't start again for about 10 months.

Even the secondary stories are about players weight and the economic mishaps of a Premiership club. Straight to the Deleted Items folder

Notch wrote:Well, John Afoa has been banned for four weeks. That's him out of our last 3 Rabo Pro12 games and the semi-final!

Rava wrote:Lunchtime Quiz, just for fun like.

1 Who was the youngest golfer to compete in the 2002 Ryder Cup? Not Garcia, that was 1999 - hmm, maybe Garcia again
2 What is the official national sport of Bulgaria? Trick question - either doesn't have one or goat tossing
3 Cricket - What connects the badges of Hampshire, Yorkshire, Northamptonshire, Derbyshire and Lancashire? Mrs Miggins from Sampford Peverell hand knits every single one, even today at the ripe old age of 142 (that's even older than Gib)
4 Which former captain of the England football team has the middle names of Emerson Carlyle? Paul Ince
5 In which African city was the 1995 rugby union World Cup final played? Cape Town
6 In which city is the Flinders Park tennis stadium? Melbourne
7 How many Epsom Derbies did Lester Piggott win? Loads
8 In which city is American football played at the Joe Robbie Stadium? Miami, FL
9 Who did England beat 134 - 0 in a 2001 rugby union international? Romania ('s womens team!)
10 In which country is the Bislett Athletic Stadium? Oslo

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:7 How many Epsom Derbies did Lester Piggott win? Loads

Rava wrote:Asbo - 5/10.
Lucky
Rodders
Munsty

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:7 How many Epsom Derbies did Lester Piggott win? Loads

Close - the correct answer is 'some'.

Rava wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:7 How many Epsom Derbies did Lester Piggott win? Loads

Close - the correct answer is 'some'.

I'd say the horses won them. All he did was steer - so none

F**k NZ Rugby. We polynesians have made the All Blacks the best in the world for decades! F**k it now! Represent your Island countries!

Rava wrote:Lunchtime Quiz, just for fun like.

1 Who was the youngest golfer to compete in the 2002 Ryder Cup? Sergio Garcia
2 What is the official national sport of Bulgaria? Weightlifting
3 Cricket - What connects the badges of Hampshire, Yorkshire, Northamptonshire, Derbyshire and Lancashire? Each depict a Rose
4 Which former captain of the England football team has the middle names of Emerson Carlyle? Paul Ince
5 In which African city was the 1995 rugby union World Cup final played? Johannesburg
6 In which city is the Flinders Park tennis stadium? Melbourne
7 How many Epsom Derbies did Lester Piggott win? Nine
8 In which city is American football played at the Joe Robbie Stadium? Miami
9 Who did England beat 134 - 0 in a 2001 rugby union international? Romania
10 In which country is the Bislett Athletic Stadium? Norway

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Rava wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:7 How many Epsom Derbies did Lester Piggott win? Loads

Close - the correct answer is 'some'.

I'd say the horses won them. All he did was steer - so none

Well, I remember one where he got off his horse yards from the finish line and carried the damn nag over, so that's at least one

Mickado wrote:I just got a promotion in work!

Get up the yard.



Now i get to put sugar AND milk in everyone's tea. My mam will be sooooo proud!

Rava wrote:

Mickado wrote:I just got a promotion in work!

Get up the yard.



Now i get to put sugar AND milk in everyone's tea. My mam will be sooooo proud!

Brilliant Kado Important thing is though, do you get more sheckels?

prop_lyd wrote:I'd be with the Strauss pick Kado.....and maybe one of you putting sugar into a cuppa?!

MrsP wrote:How about one of John Afoa, in the "Justice 3 John" mode?

Well done on the promo Bikkies.

Does this mean you shall go to the Ulster semi?

rugbydreamer wrote:I am about to be a bit pedantic (sorry!)

Tis Stephen, not Steven