South Africa vs England 2nd Test - Teams and Live match thread

[robshaw4england]

First topic message reminder :

Edit: Actual squads added to OP for reference
South Africa vs England
2nd test, Ellis Park, Johannesburg (capacity 62,500)

South Africa
Pat Lambie, JP Pietersen, Jean de Villiers (capt), Francois Steyn, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Francois Hougaard, Pierre Spies, Willem Alberts, Marcell Coetzee, Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth, Jannie du Plessis, Bismarck du Plessis, Tendai Mtawarira.
Reserves: Adriaan Strauss, Werner Kruger, Flip van der Merwe, Keegan Daniel, Ruan Pienaar, Wynand Olivier, Bjorn Basson.

Only changes are due to injuries to Zane Kirchner and Coenie Oosthuizen - Lambie starts at fullback, with Basson and Kruger on the bench.

Weather: Sunny, should be around 10deg C for kickoff http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/993800


England: 15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
13 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
12 Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
11 David Strettle (Saracens)
10 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
6 Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
7 Chris Robshaw (capt, Harlequins)
8 Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Replacements
16 Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
17 Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
18 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
19 Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
20 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
21 Owen Farrell (Saracens)
22 Alex Goode (Saracens)

Tour Previews:
http://www.v2journal.com/the-south-african-perspective-on-englands-summer-tour.html
http://www.v2journal.com/englands-summer-tour.html

15. M.Brown (Quins)
14. C.Ashton (Saints)
13. M.Tuilagi (Leicester)
12. B.Barritt (Saracens)
11. B.Foden (Saints)
10. T.Flood (Leicester)
09. B.Youngs (Leicester)

08. B.Morgan (Gloucester)
07. C.Robshaw (Quins)
06. J.Haskell (Wasps)
05. G.Parling (Leicester)
04. M.Botha (Saracens)
03. D.Cole (Leicester)
02. D.Hartley (Saints)
01. A.Corbisiero (Irish)

16. J.Marler (Quins)
17. J.Gray (Quins)
18. T.Palmer (Wasps)
19. T.Johnson (Exeter)
20. D.Care (Quins)
21. O.Farrell (Saracens)
22. J.Joseph (Irish)

*If Brad Barritt is unable to play next week then I would start Tuilagi at inside and have Joseph at outside, with Turner-Hall or Allen coming onto the bench.

With Flood back at 10, England will be able to exploit his partnership with Youngs and get the best out of our centres in attack. He will also help to bring Foden, Ashton and Brown into the line with his strong passing game. Farrell looked completely out of his depth in attack today.

I'd bring Haskell in for his ball carrying ability and physicality to match the springboks. Johnson impressed me today, however he may suit coming on as an impact sub later in the game.

If Corbisiero is fit and firing I'd start him ahead of Marler simply because of Corbisiero's impressive scrummaging and form in the six nations. Marler went well today, but he is still learning and could make a huge impact off of the bench.

Thoughts?

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Currently on Twitter a few pundits are commenting that as Joseph didn't train with the squad for the SA Baabaas he's likely to be starting the 2nd test.

[LondonTiger]

Currently on Twitter a few pundits are commenting that as Joseph didn't train with the squad for the SA Baabaas he's likely to be starting the 2nd test.

Well we need to attack with pace and variety. Until Flood came on the only things we did to attack:

a) Feed the ball to a forward who ran into the nearest pair of boks

or

b) Send Barritt on a dummy crash ball line and feed the ball to Manu to run a crash ball line

We need to constantly shift the point of attack, something Quins do very well, and England singularly failed to do. Should Joseph play I hope it ios in the centre, which would signify a change in attacking emphasis and not on the Wing which would probably just be the prelude to more of the same.

[MMaaxx]

Talking of painful: http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/7806022/Hartley-targets-response

I'm not sure what game he played in over the weekend but he is asking for it now this coming saturday...

[formerly known as Sam]

LT I think I'd prefer Joseph on the bench until the 50 to 60 minute mark. Wait until the Boks are tiring in the centres (Olivier comes on to freshen things up and we'll have a field day) and then bring on Joseph and let him do his hot knife through butter thing. That worked well in the first test it was just that he came on to late in the game.

If Flood is standing flat then the outside backs can run off his shoulder and fade onto his flat passes. It's only if we play a deep sitting 10 like Farrell then Joseph on the wing won't work. I'd prefer to see a back three of Ashton, Foden, Goode anyway as I think it will be more creative initially with that Joseph kick off the bench.

[Taylorman]

Londontiger that has to be the way lancaster has to think about this weeks famw. Englands best chances lie with what he can conjure up in a week. Tuilagi crashballs is never going to work with SA. Hes just not smart enough for the role against SA. Variation of play, mixing it up...anything to avoid a straight out forward tussle perhaps. Whatever it is lancasters career starts in earnest this week.

[LondonTiger]

Manu has a lot more to his game than crash ball - but as a young man will play the role he is given.

[Triangulation]

Nice one lads. It's all just shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic.

We're going down for 3-0 here and there is little we can do about it.

SA know that if they play route 1 rugby they can out muscle us and batter us into submission. Even if they take the odd injury themselves they have more big bruisers on the bench and we have a fairly ordinary bench.

The battering we took in T1 will serve them well for T2. Think of it as a tenderisation process.

The scoring burst for the Boks could come earlier in T2 than T1 i.e within the first half depending on how we hold up physically.

It's over guys let it go.

[anotherworldofpain]

England try to play route 1 against route 1 and was some great battle! But SA win this won one.

Maybe England need to find a subtle approach and make a wide play and vary attack and not try to use a lighter to a petrol bomb?

SA will kick away the ball all day so name the counter-attack back three and make the most fast back row and lineout focus to the second row. Give away the power game and win by don't playing at it.

[Triangulation]

Yes i can see the bok side licking their lips as we de power a side already beasted by power.

It is fantasy to think that we can run around these guys and of course the temptation will be to try to go wide without having earned the right.

Do this and well be on the end of a real hiding.

It would also beg the question - if that is our best hope of victory - why the hell didnt we try it in T1?

[bluestonevedder]

Fact is, England played a lot better with ball in hand towards the end (and I mean the VERY end, 79 mins onwards). England stood up admirably against the physical onslaught, but couldn't keep it up for the full 80. Farrell's aimless kicking resulted from England battering the Bok lines to little avail. If we keep the ball in hand, stop kicking away turnover ball, and pass it wide to let our more creative players loose, we stand a chance. Try and beat the Boks at their own game, and it will be a drubbing.

[Triangulation]

Here's the news....

There are two sides in world rugby who can and do beat the Boks...the Wallabies and the All Blacks.

They generally do it by giving the boks the run around and by quickly moving the ball away from contact. Shifting the point of contact, keeping the big bok forwards moving and not getting into an arm wrestle.

That is pretty much the only way were going to beat them.

Trouble is we dont really have the passing ability to play this way.

Sad but true.

So were dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed.

Accept that were going down 3-0 everyone and relax.

[bluestonevedder]

[nobbled]

Triangulation's career at the Samaritans is off to a shaky start...

[btown]

I think if we have Joseph in midfield he would give PDV a much harder time at 13 than Tuilagi did. As at his age Joseph's pace and step will be much harder to defend than Bosh.

[englandglory4ever]

3 players showed weaknesses.

1. Youngs. His terrible kicking kept us out of the game for long periods. He constantly gave good attacking ball to the Boks.

2. Farrell at 10. He just doesn't look fast enough to make line breaks and he finds passing under pressure very difficult. Too often his pass checks the man rather than allowing him to run on to the ball. He also can't make a long pass under pressure. Defensively he is good but in open play he has little else to offer.

3. Ashton. Very weak defensively. In these tough matches the back 3 have to do much more defending than they do attacking. Ashton is very poor in this area. He looks very lightweight but more importantly he doesn't appear to have the stomach to be a strong tackler.

Care or Dickson should start at 9.
Flood should start at 10
Monye/Strettle should start on the wing.

Couple these changes with a better kicking strategy and its job done.

[englandglory4ever]

"Accept that were going down 3-0 everyone and relax. "

You are such a 'give up quick' merchant. You are obviously a 'when it gets tough the tough get goin' type. Grow some and get behind the team.

[Triangulation]

"Accept that were going down 3-0 everyone and relax. "

You are such a 'give up quick' merchant. You are obviously a 'when it gets tough the tough get goin' type. Grow some and get behind the team.

Trust me i am behind the team.

I just find that it hurts less when you accept the realities. And no i am not advocating any damage limitation selection or playing style either. I want us to give it a lash. I think our best last hope is to play fairly expansively. I don't think that we're equipped to actually pull off a win doing it but i am 100% convinced that if we don't get the ball moving through the hands we will lose, possibly badly.

[damage_13]

Trust me i am behind the team.

yeah... with a Knife.

You are Mr Cleary and I claim my £5

[propdavid_london]

3 players showed weaknesses.
3. Ashton. Very weak defensively. In these tough matches the back 3 have to do much more defending than they do attacking. Ashton is very poor in this area. He looks very lightweight but more importantly he doesn't appear to have the stomach to be a strong tackler.

Care or Dickson should start at 9.
Flood should start at 10
Monye/Strettle should start on the wing.

I agree with the assessment on Farrell and Youngs.
But to suggest that Strettle is a better defensive alternative to Ashton (who did make some fine breaks in the game) is a bit dramatic. Ugo would be a good alternative on the wing. Maintain Ashton on tuther and Foden to 15.

[Barney McGrew did it]

"Accept that were going down 3-0 everyone and relax. "

You are such a 'give up quick' merchant. You are obviously a 'when it gets tough the tough get goin' type. Grow some and get behind the team.

Not sure the team would appreciate that. More of a french thing.

[sirtidychris]

This happens every time we face the boks its not stop prattle about the physical contest blah blah blah blah blah........We get so focussed on the physical battle that we forget everything else. For weeks before hand the press and the squad focus on SA and bring out the same lines about fronting up etc etc....When it comes to the test we never play to beat the south afrcians but only play a team and game plan to match them physically with all the players so focussed on big hits and a macho contest that we don't play our own game.

Now after the game we have dylan hartley talking about physicality again and how they now have respect for us and the team and the rest of the english media polishing wilhem alberts 'johnson' for being such a brute.

Like anyone who beats the spingboks we must go into the game knowing its going to hurt but focus on our own game...when we smashed the boks in 2002 it was such a horrible hard hitting dirty game, but we ignored this, didn't get drawn into playing south africa how they wanted to play and concentrated on our own style....when Plan A doesn't work for the saffas they rarely have a Plan B.

Now the group of players we have at the moment are not as cohesive as 2002 and we are still finding our style/ best first team but let the boys play. Let youngs run it, let foden/ashton run lines off eachother with fodes at fullback, let the centres mix it up give them freedom to pass rather than bosh it....have faith in pace, creavity and youth even it means we give away inches and stones.

[fa0019]

sirtidychris

I'm amazed that people think ENG prepared for the physical boks when they still decided to bring on Lee Mears and Doran-Jones as subs. They're about as physical as a limp duck and effectively sealed the boks victory with the late scrum penalty. Its madness.

You will not beat the boks if you can't go toe to toe with them. You don't have to beat them there but you can't give them an inch else they will walk all over you.

I myself would not pick Botha either... he's a boer.. pure and simple. I would imagine at the anthems all he was thinking about inside was... I'm playing for the wrong side. He didn't play badly but ENG have just as good players on the sideline, who aren't the wrong side of 30, will have real grit to take it to the boks and show pride in their shirt.

I bet ENG fans would kill for an attacking strategy that Jonno had!!! Sort of says it all really. I would imagine the Maidenhead U11s will have more depth to their backline strategy.

[Chjw131]

I posted this elsewhere but it seems appropriate here aswell. Apologies for the length!

A lot of interesting discussion re: the locks and backrow. Specifically on the SR the question of an enforcer or otherwise is one that will plague Rowntree and Lancaster as long as they seem to favour a 'lightweight' pack.

What surprised me on the w/end was that the England pack were weighing in around 50kg heavier than the SA one. That really did strike me as odd. As jamesbigmac has already pointed out it's not just a question of weight, and power while correlative is not always precisely representative, take Banahan for example.

For me it's a question of balance. Not just in the SR but throughout the pack. As some people have already alluded to there just seems to be a dearth of players in the pack willing to carry. It's something that's come to light before and something which still hasn't been addressed.

We all know the basics of rugby, go forward to go wide etc... but I struggle to reconcile that basic concept with what Rowntree and Lancaster are trying to achieve with a more athletic pack. It's certainly not because of their handling skill sets. Dowson starting at no.8 was a classic example in the 6N; even his retention on the bench I struggle with. Not because he doesn't have ability but because with him to replace Morgan you gain nothing and loose more balance. The same may be said of diddy Mears, precisely what do you gain for what you lose?

Thus we arrive back at the concept of balance in the pack. Some strong carriers are required as well as the more athletic player. Below is the starting England pack from the w/end and below that is my pack for the next test.

1. J Marler - Carrier (No signs of this in Test 1 though)
2. D Hartley - All Rounder (Carried little in Test 1)
3. D Cole - Tackling/Scumage/BDown (Never been a carrier)
4. M Botha - Tackler/Carrier (Question marks over carrying effectiveness)
5. G Parling - Lineout/Tackler (Not a Carrier)
6. T Johnson - Defence/Breakdown (Few Carries)
7. C Robshaw - Defence/Breakdown/Lineout (Some carries to little effect)
8. B Morgan - Carrier (Our only reliable carrier, used little perhaps due to fitness?)

As you can see, purely from a go forward perspective the pack lacks some dependable carriers. Guys who can put there hand up time after time. A lot of the Springbok pack carries and does so to effect despite their 'inferior' weight.

I do think we need a decent dependable carrier in the SR. Botha to be fair to him has played relatively well, but he doesn't carry that well. If Deacon had been fit pre 6N he would be there and I don't think Botha would have started a test.

There are options such as Garvey, Attwood and Lawes when fit but for the time being we have to work with the squad that's there. Bearing in mind we need to keep some balance, and not try to out Bok the Boks here's my pack for Test 2.

1. J Marler (With instructions to do some carrying)
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. M Botha (There's no other lock in his mould in the whole squad)
5. G Parling
6. J Haskell
7. C Robshaw
8. B Morgan

Only Haskell in to start, had the squad been different i'd have perhaps given Garvey a shot. The balance of carrying can hopefully be inspired by Haskell and Morgan encouraging Hartley and Marler to do likewise.

[fa0019]

Chjw131

No way did that ENG pack weigh more than the SA pack... just remember that SA had guys like Alberts, Etzebeth and Jannie all weighing in at 120kg +. Spies, Bismarck, Beast are also +110kg guys.

50kg... unless the ENG pack weighed in at 970kg it wouldn't happen... if anything it would be the other way around. ENG I'm sure have no one over 120kg and their front 5 is on the smallish side.

SA doesn't do small packs. My Stormers pack regularly weighs in well over 930kg at SR... thats on ave. 117kg per man.

[HQ matt]

i believe the england pack was heavier but not by as much as 50kg. skys coverage said they were heavier.

England by weight.
Morgan-116
Robshaw-110
Johnson-104
Parling-114
Botha-115
Marler-110
Hartley-110
Cole-118

[fa0019]

Its not that important to debate about this but SA are heavier than that.

From their club websites

Spies -107
Coetzee - 106
Alberts - 119
Kruger - 110
Etzebeth - 120
Jannie - 118
Bismarck - 111
Beast - 116

which is 907kg so a heavier than the ENG one with 897.

When you replace Kruger with Bekker and Coetzee with Schalk you can add another 20kg+ to that side.

Not sure where Sky got their stats from... unless the boys have been on the slimfast diet during the last 2 weeks????

[Chjw131]

Indeed fa0019 I was just recalling the Sky coverage which stated England's pack was heavier by a bit. Indeed I was probably incorrect on the 50kg front, but nonetheless one would assume the SA pack to have been significantly heavier, but this actually wasn't the case.

The point then translated to power which I outlined briefly in my post.

[fa0019]

Chjw131

I take your point that you were just relying info delivered by sky...regardless of it being garbage.

You are right that weight isn't the be all and end all.

The French pack is probably the best in the world at scrum time and they are very lightweight indeed. I can't remember them putting out a side bigger than 850kg.... sometimes near 80-90 kg less than the boks.

[Chjw131]

Ha, yes garbage as though it may be actually the point they made if you look past the statistic still stands. At a blind guess most SA and England supporters would have put the weight advantage in the Bok's corner by a long long way.

Thus the efficacy of the thrust of the Sky stat stands in my opinion. Bearing in mind you are relying on Club Website stats, which are hardly reliable themselves.

[Wi11]

We need to constantly shift the point of attack, something Quins do very well, and England singularly failed to do.

Yes, and it's mostly Care's doing and England desperately need to play him. Especially given how well he combines with Robshaw.

I watched the game where Leicester beat Quins just before the end of regular season. Flood tore us apart in the second half with some killer passes. He's another one who mixes it up and keeps defences guessing. I can't remember Care-Flood being given a serious try by England. It strikes me as having huge potential.

[Geordie]

Flood has to start....

Interesting that Corbs is Englands heaviest at over 120kg

[George Carlin]

Interestingly, Tom Fordyce's BBC blog in March listed the average weight of the entire Welsh team (forwards and backs) as 107.7kg. That's 16 stone, 13lbs, which is an unbelievably big backline in comparison to decade ago.

I am assuming that this average weight did not factor Shane Williams (80kg soaking wet) in the starting XV.

[Beaker]

Player stats are typically misleading, even the ones published by their clubs. I think the figures are sourced from the players themselves so some 'kidology' may be involved, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[formerly known as Sam]

Got to agree with Beaker here, some of the stats for players is just wrong. Manu Tuilagi at over 6 foot tall, I've met him and he was a touch shorter and I'm dead on 6 foot. Tom Croft at 6 foot 5, yeah and the rest the guy looms over most second rows I'd be suprised is he wasn't about 6 foot 7. If the heights are out by a couple inchs here and there I'd expect the weights to be 5 to 10kg one way or the other as players will put on or lose weight depending on their enviroment/injury status/period of the season etc.

[Triangulation]

I have never particularly put much stock in the stats anyway. I prefer to believe the evidence of my own two eyes.

But anyway were way off track here.

The England XXII with best chance of victory is one that does not obsess about fronting up to the macho SA challenge, one that concentrates on its own game and goes out there and executes that game with head in the freezer, belly in the oven.

The boks will probably rough us up win, lose or draw so we might as well win!

Marler
Hartley
Cole
Botha
Parling
Johnson
Robshaw (c )
Morgan
Youngs
Flood
Allen
Tuilagi
Joseph
Ashton
Foden

ps. the bench is important and needs to be shaken up BIG TIME!

A decent prop?
T. Youngs - give it a lash!
Palmer important off the bench
Haskell important off the bench
Care very important off the bench
Farell
Wade/Monye whoever is currently better!

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Telegraph probable team reported this AM

England (probable) B Foden; C Ashton J Joseph, M Tuilagi, D Strettle; T Flood, B Youngs; J Marler, D Hartley, D Cole, M Botha, G Parling, T Johnson, C Robshaw (capt), B Morgan.

So I got my wish (hopefully!) for Flood, Manu, & Joseph along the line.

Strettle in on the left wing, hopefully Wade as a sub.

Marler retains his place, I'm ok with that as Corbs is probably recovering from injury.

Hopefully Care on bench to come on when needed.

I personally would like to have seen Haskell & Palmer starting but Johnson has done a good job. Botha needs to put himself around more.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Telegraph probable team reported this AM

England (probable) B Foden; C Ashton J Joseph, M Tuilagi, D Strettle; T Flood, B Youngs; J Marler, D Hartley, D Cole, M Botha, G Parling, T Johnson, C Robshaw (capt), B Morgan.

So I got my wish (hopefully!) for Flood, Manu, & Joseph along the line.

Strettle in on the left wing, hopefully Wade as a sub.

Marler retains his place, I'm ok with that as Corbs is probably recovering from injury.

Hopefully Care on bench to come on when needed.

I personally would like to have seen Haskell & Palmer starting but Johnson has done a good job. Botha needs to put himself around more.

[yappysnap]

Not sure about that Trev, Strettle pulled out of the mid week game yesterday because of the same niggle he'd suffered last weekend, Lancaster would be an idiot to shove hime straight in to the starting line up. I imagine either Monye or Wade will cover that wing.

Or perhaps we'll see a different midfield and either JJ or Tuilagi on the wing.

Or maybe even Goode will be 15 and Foden will still be on the wing...

[HQ matt]

i thought monye had the niggle and thats why streetle didnt start against the ba bas?

[BigTrevsbigmac]

i thought monye had the niggle and thats why streetle didnt start against the ba bas?

Thats right SL didn't want to risk Strettle so I believe he will start

[EnglishReign]

I'd start Wade, Joseph, Care, Flood and Corbs. Keep the rest the same, obviously involves a bit of a shake-up position wise.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Full article from Telegraph,

The team will be named on Thursday and shows a radical shift of emphasis from the one that lost the first Test, 22-17, in Durban – Flood being reunited with Leicester colleague Ben Youngs at half-back and one of the youngest England centre pairings in Manu Tuilagi and Jonathan Joseph, both of whom are just 21.

Farrell has had an uninterrupted run since winning his first cap against Scotland in February but has looked shaky in his past two outings. Lancaster was also dismayed by England’s poor kicking from the rear and must believe that Flood’s experience will bring steadiness in that regard.

Even though injuries to centre Brad Barritt and full-back Mike Brown have shaped Lancaster’s hand, he has been itching to blood Joseph, a more natural outside centre than Tuilagi, who moves into the No 12 shirt.

Flood is also a more attacking player than Farrell and will look to bring Joseph into the game. That, in turn, may help draw more from the back-three players who have been fairly dormant in recent times, Ben Foden’s late try in the first Test notwithstanding. One of England’s most potent strike weapons, Chris Ashton, has not scored in England’s last seven Tests.

Foden is likely to revert to full-back after it became clear on Wednesday that David Strettle will start on the wing when he was a late withdrawal from the team to face the Barbarians in Kimberley. Ugo Monye has a tight hamstring, so Strettle will slot back into the Test team.

Lancaster will have to nurse Farrell through this bumpy patch. He has been steady without being electric and Lancaster knows that if the three-match series is not to be lost in Johannesburg, then England need to threaten the Springbok defence. The one area in which Farrell has excelled has been his goal-kicking. He missed only one kick in the first Test, the difficult angled conversion of Foden’s try, and his four penalties took his international tally to 75 points in six matches.

Flood, who makes his first start for England since the World Cup quarter-final against France, is no mean kicker himself. The pack remains unchanged with the likelihood of James Haskell and Alex Goode coming on to the bench.

South Africa have made one change, Patrick Lambie replacing Zane Kirchner, who has a knee injury, at full-back.

[Triangulation]

I feel for Farrell a little bit. He needs an arm around the shoulder.

I hope he comes off the bench and kicks the winning penalty/ drop goal for us.

Am i alone in fearing that SA will be happy to see Tuilagi at 12?

I just think he is that little bit closer to the SA back row now and they will help marshall and shackle him.

I suppose he does give Flood the "get out of jail free card" if any of his probings come to nothing or he is possibly going to get isolated he can throw a short pass to MT.

I did quite like the idea of MT coming off a blind side wing into the line and causing havoc and creating space on the openside although i didnt think that overall MT should be on the wing.

Australia do not get sucked into the whole "fronting up to the physical challenge" malarkay of the springboks. They just focus on themselves, go out there and beat them.

We should try to emulate that IMHO.

[btown]

For those worrying about Manu Tuilagi's distribution. He can interchange with JJ who often plays as first reciever for London Irish. Therefore allowing the miss pass to joseph on the outside from flood or manu hitting PDV's channel, with JJ on the inside. Each providing a very difficult challenge to the old center.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

South Africa vs England
2nd test, Ellis Park, Johannesburg (capacity 62,500)

South Africa
Pat Lambie, JP Pietersen, Jean de Villiers (capt), Francois Steyn, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Francois Hougaard, Pierre Spies, Willem Alberts, Marcell Coetzee, Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth, Jannie du Plessis, Bismarck du Plessis, Tendai Mtawarira.
Reserves: Adriaan Strauss, Werner Kruger, Flip van der Merwe, Keegan Daniel, Ruan Pienaar, Wynand Olivier, Bjorn Basson.

Only changes are due to injuries to Zane Kirchner and Coenie Oosthuizen - Lambie starts at fullback, with Basson and Kruger on the bench.

Weather: Sunny, should be around 10deg C for kickoff http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/993800


England: 15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
13 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
12 Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
11 David Strettle (Saracens)
10 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
6 Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
7 Chris Robshaw (capt, Harlequins)
8 Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Replacements
16 Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
17 Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
18 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
19 Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
20 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
21 Owen Farrell (Saracens)
22 Alex Goode (Saracens)

Tour Previews:
http://www.v2journal.com/the-south-african-perspective-on-englands-summer-tour.html
http://www.v2journal.com/englands-summer-tour.html

[Triangulation]

Yes. The thing about selecting a very capable yet slightly past it 13 as CAPTAIN is that the opposition know he will be there and can plan gang style assaults on him in that most dificult of defensive channels.

Over a 3 Test series that could really end up being a proper working over.........

[Portnoy]

Just caught this thread as I was scrolling through the stickies. And I don't still can't understand why an ephemeral post merits one.

The next game is played at 6000 ft and I fully expect the Saffas to boot the ball further than the English and therefore will win.

[Triangulation]

It's out...No suprises....all the leaks were accurate as usual....

Can Corbs play tighthead?????

15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
13 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
12 Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
11 David Strettle (Saracens)
10 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
6 Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
7 Chris Robshaw (capt, Harlequins)
8 Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Replacements
16 Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
17 Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
18 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
19 Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
20 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
21 Owen Farrell (Saracens)
22 Alex Goode (Saracens)

[Triangulation]

other point to note....

a lot of us wanted Haskell at least on bench.

He did himself no favours in the dirt tracker game though. Idiot.

VERY pedestrian and one paced bench! Becomming a Lancaster trademark!

[Triangulation]

NO CARE ON BENCH EITHER!

[Sponsored content]