South Africa vs England 2nd Test - Teams and Live match thread

[robshaw4england]

First topic message reminder :

Edit: Actual squads added to OP for reference
South Africa vs England
2nd test, Ellis Park, Johannesburg (capacity 62,500)

South Africa
Pat Lambie, JP Pietersen, Jean de Villiers (capt), Francois Steyn, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Francois Hougaard, Pierre Spies, Willem Alberts, Marcell Coetzee, Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth, Jannie du Plessis, Bismarck du Plessis, Tendai Mtawarira.
Reserves: Adriaan Strauss, Werner Kruger, Flip van der Merwe, Keegan Daniel, Ruan Pienaar, Wynand Olivier, Bjorn Basson.

Only changes are due to injuries to Zane Kirchner and Coenie Oosthuizen - Lambie starts at fullback, with Basson and Kruger on the bench.

Weather: Sunny, should be around 10deg C for kickoff http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/993800


England: 15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
13 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
12 Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
11 David Strettle (Saracens)
10 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
6 Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
7 Chris Robshaw (capt, Harlequins)
8 Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Replacements
16 Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
17 Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
18 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
19 Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
20 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
21 Owen Farrell (Saracens)
22 Alex Goode (Saracens)

Tour Previews:
http://www.v2journal.com/the-south-african-perspective-on-englands-summer-tour.html
http://www.v2journal.com/englands-summer-tour.html

15. M.Brown (Quins)
14. C.Ashton (Saints)
13. M.Tuilagi (Leicester)
12. B.Barritt (Saracens)
11. B.Foden (Saints)
10. T.Flood (Leicester)
09. B.Youngs (Leicester)

08. B.Morgan (Gloucester)
07. C.Robshaw (Quins)
06. J.Haskell (Wasps)
05. G.Parling (Leicester)
04. M.Botha (Saracens)
03. D.Cole (Leicester)
02. D.Hartley (Saints)
01. A.Corbisiero (Irish)

16. J.Marler (Quins)
17. J.Gray (Quins)
18. T.Palmer (Wasps)
19. T.Johnson (Exeter)
20. D.Care (Quins)
21. O.Farrell (Saracens)
22. J.Joseph (Irish)

*If Brad Barritt is unable to play next week then I would start Tuilagi at inside and have Joseph at outside, with Turner-Hall or Allen coming onto the bench.

With Flood back at 10, England will be able to exploit his partnership with Youngs and get the best out of our centres in attack. He will also help to bring Foden, Ashton and Brown into the line with his strong passing game. Farrell looked completely out of his depth in attack today.

I'd bring Haskell in for his ball carrying ability and physicality to match the springboks. Johnson impressed me today, however he may suit coming on as an impact sub later in the game.

If Corbisiero is fit and firing I'd start him ahead of Marler simply because of Corbisiero's impressive scrummaging and form in the six nations. Marler went well today, but he is still learning and could make a huge impact off of the bench.

Thoughts?

[nathan]

Greenwood and Ryan casting doubt on the first South African try. For sure, the ball didn't touch a front row forward before coming out of the tunnel, but then again, Youngs didn't put the ball down the middle

I don't like this practice of feeding the second row. Yes, according the laws that scrummage should have been reset, but by the same token, the scrum half should be putting the ball in with a view to the hooker actually heeling the ball.

Not good application of the laws by the touch judge, but I don't think we can complain when we're not putting the ball in properly in the first place.

no, but one of those, teams never get pulled up for. The other they do. Bit different.

Well, it's a matter of opinion. Personally, I don't complain about referees. I have no problem with Alain Rolland. Don't blame him, England are getting mullah'd and it's up to them to front up.

We're getting taught a lesson out there and the sooner we learn it the better.

eh? i never blamed or have a problem with Rolland. It was Walsh who made a bad call. I know England are getting "mullah'd" but that doesnt change it was a bad decision.

anyway, on to the game

[mystiroakey]

we should have blocked this altitude test- its not a fair playing field..

[nathan]

Greenwood and Ryan casting doubt on the first South African try. For sure, the ball didn't touch a front row forward before coming out of the tunnel, but then again, Youngs didn't put the ball down the middle

I don't like this practice of feeding the second row. Yes, according the laws that scrummage should have been reset, but by the same token, the scrum half should be putting the ball in with a view to the hooker actually heeling the ball.

Not good application of the laws by the touch judge, but I don't think we can complain when we're not putting the ball in properly in the first place.

If the ball isn't touched by the front row and is still coming out in front of the far prop's feet, it's hardly feeding the 2nd row.

That being said, I don't want to see any blaming of refs and linesmen. Yes Walsh's decision was poor, but even if you negate that try England just aren't even in this game. The Boks don't look out of 2nd gear and they've got us completely licked.

+1

[yappysnap]

I think one day i'd like to see a Lawes & Garvey second row partnership.

[yappysnap]

Luckily Palmer's come on so that'll sort everything out.

[mystiroakey]

forward pass- jokes

[thebluesmancometh]

I don't think thats a pen for Robshaw, SH has his hands on the ball and is hit by a good 7! If it was that blatant he would've been carded!

[FerN]

Morne gets another 3 points. Not his best kicking, but his generalplay seems better than under Divvy.

[yappysnap]

Looking forward to seeing Waldrom lead the fight back.

[thebluesmancometh]

In all fairness FerN it couldn't have got worse without finally losing his shirt?!!!

[yappysnap]

I don't think thats a pen for Robshaw, SH has his hands on the ball and is hit by a good 7! If it was that blatant he would've been carded!

My thoughts as well but all refs seem to want to protect scrum halfs now.

[nathan]

should of gone to palmer then!!

[yappysnap]

Palmer had to take that.

[yappysnap]

AND FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER THE REF SPOTS THE SA PLAYERS GOING OFF THEIR FEET!!!

[thebluesmancometh]

Parling fresh and just onto the pitch, stopped dead and held up by Hougaard???!!! What does that indicate?!

SA are not this immensely powerfull, England are not a bad team overnight. From what Ive seen of SA over the last year they are clearly a step off NZ, and struggle against OZ. I'm looking forward to this years Tri/Championship

[FerN]

In all fairness FerN it couldn't have got worse without finally losing his shirt?!!!

Ja, probably couldn't have gotten worse. I think he realizes, we do have a lot of flyhalf's now wanting that spot of his.

[yappysnap]

Dan Cole off

Oh dear...

[nathan]

wasnt in touch?

[rhonddasmackhead]

Is HERSH watching this demolition or he still going over the Wales highlights?

[nathan]

Dan Cole off

Oh dear...

blood only

[thebluesmancometh]

Youngs was nearle Hanged going over the line there, if it's no try it's a yellow and pen try surely?!

[mystiroakey]

time to watch the cricket

[nathan]

if that isnt a pen try!!!

[mystiroakey]

balls bad weather - haha, i am being forced into this- grrrr

[yappysnap]

Big high tackle there

[mystiroakey]

that better be given because theres was

[yappysnap]

Dan Cole off

Oh dear...

blood only

Phew!

[nathan]

Big high tackle there

they'll get away with it.... i don't know how it can't be.

[FerN]

if that isnt a pen try!!!

the question isn't is it a penalty try? I don't think he can judge on that.

[thebluesmancometh]

Has to be a yellow for Alberts!!!

[nathan]

where was the yellow card? pathetic!

[yappysnap]

Yep and nothing for the high tackle!!

Wadayaknow!

[FerN]

where was the yellow card? pathetic!

The tv ref can't judge on that.

[thebluesmancometh]

Awarding the try saves the penalty try and a yellow card for Alberts there... Disgracefull. What were they looking at for so long and why hasn't Alberts been punished for hanging Youngs and nearly twisting his neck off?

[nathan]

if that isnt a pen try!!!

the question isn't is it a penalty try? I don't think he can judge on that.

he can, it was in the act of scoring. should of been a pen try and yellow card. No place for nasty play like that.

[bsando]

anyone else think the sky commentators are pretty annoying? They seem a little deluded to me.

[nathan]

good job he didntdrive in to a suporting jumper then

[trebellbobaggins]

Greenwood and Ryan casting doubt on the first South African try. For sure, the ball didn't touch a front row forward before coming out of the tunnel, but then again, Youngs didn't put the ball down the middle

I don't like this practice of feeding the second row. Yes, according the laws that scrummage should have been reset, but by the same token, the scrum half should be putting the ball in with a view to the hooker actually heeling the ball.

Not good application of the laws by the touch judge, but I don't think we can complain when we're not putting the ball in properly in the first place.

no, but one of those, teams never get pulled up for. The other they do. Bit different.

Well, it's a matter of opinion. Personally, I don't complain about referees. I have no problem with Alain Rolland. Don't blame him, England are getting mullah'd and it's up to them to front up.

We're getting taught a lesson out there and the sooner we learn it the better.

I think the lesson is.. Regardless of population, resources etc..don't play rugby, England aren't very good at it are they and sadly my little Celtic area hasn't been feeding you any good front rows do a while.

[damngoodOvalball]

Oval

I don't want to overplay the role of altitude, and the effects but it is a big big advantage to the team who is acustomed to it.

Bluesman you legend. I knew I was forgetting something. Damn you altitude. Moral victory in the bag!

[thebluesmancometh]

You can mock all you like Oval, but Ive seen differences in certain physical functions of near 25% of professional athletes.

[thebluesmancometh]

Without sounding like I'm whinging here but Youngs is smashed back, 4 SA players go off their feet over the ball and one lying on the floor pops it up to a supporting runner.

Now are they not meant to stay on their feet, and if on the floor not allowed to play the ball?! WTF?

[FerN]

That was big run by SA.

[mystiroakey]

we are gonna win anyway-

[FerN]

Without sounding like I'm whinging here but Youngs is smashed back, 4 SA players go off their feet over the ball and one lying on the floor pops it up to a supporting runner.

Now are they not meant to stay on their feet, and if on the floor not allowed to play the ball?! WTF?

Hougaard already had the ball in the push. Hougaard gets a chance to place the ball..

[damngoodOvalball]

time to watch the cricket

Going well but rained off. Try the golf

[trebellbobaggins]

Rolland and Walsh, what you get if the chuckle brothers were spiteful.

[nathan]

how was that not collapsing the maul before?


well done youngs

[FerN]

England fighting back

[gelodge]

Greenwood and Ryan casting doubt on the first South African try. For sure, the ball didn't touch a front row forward before coming out of the tunnel, but then again, Youngs didn't put the ball down the middle

I don't like this practice of feeding the second row. Yes, according the laws that scrummage should have been reset, but by the same token, the scrum half should be putting the ball in with a view to the hooker actually heeling the ball.

Not good application of the laws by the touch judge, but I don't think we can complain when we're not putting the ball in properly in the first place.

no, but one of those, teams never get pulled up for. The other they do. Bit different.

Well, it's a matter of opinion. Personally, I don't complain about referees. I have no problem with Alain Rolland. Don't blame him, England are getting mullah'd and it's up to them to front up.

We're getting taught a lesson out there and the sooner we learn it the better.

I think the lesson is.. Regardless of population, resources etc..don't play rugby, England aren't very good at it are they and sadly my little Celtic area hasn't been feeding you any good front rows do a while.

Yeah, because Vickery did so well against the Boks last time round.

[mystiroakey]

what a performance by england- luving this

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