Euro 2012: Day 12 Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Sweden v France (ITV 4, 19:45)
England v Ukraine (ITV 1, 19:45)

Current Group Standings:

France - 4
England - 4
Ukraine - 3
Sweden - 0


If points are level, sorting criteria is thus:

Equality of points after the group matches
8.07 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the
following criteria are applied, in the order given; to determine the rankings:
a) higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;
b) superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if MORE
than two teams finish equal on points);
c) higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if
MORE than two teams finish equal on points);
d) superior goal difference in all the group matches;
e) higher number of goals scored in all the group matches;
f) position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system (see Annex I,
paragraph 1.2.2);
g) fair play conduct of the teams (final tournament);
h) drawing of lots.

And this is what each team needs to do:

France (v Sweden)
Win - Secures qualification. Top spot depends on the result between England and Ukraine. If England also win, top spot goes to the team with the superior goal difference.
Draw - Secures qualification. Will still progress as group winners if England v Ukraine ends in a draw courtesy of their superior goal difference over Roy Hodgson's men.
Lose - Through as second-placed team if England beat Ukraine. If England and Ukraine draw, France will still qualify courtesy of their better head-to-head record against the co-hosts. If both England and France lose the team which has the superior goal difference between the pair will qualify.

England (v Ukraine)
Win - Secures qualification and they will progress as group winners if France fail to beat Sweden.
Draw - Secures qualification and they will progress as group winners if France lose to Sweden. If both final group games end in a draw, France will qualify as group winners courtesy of their superior goal difference over Roy Hodgson's men.
Lose - Out if France win or draw against Sweden. If both England and France lose the team which has the superior goal difference between the pair will qualify.

Ukraine (v England)
Win - Secures qualification. They will qualify as group winners if France fail to beat Sweden.
Draw - Out.
Lose - Out.

Sweden (v France)
Already eliminated.

Final day of the group stages, we have 6 teams through to the Quarters, 2 teams will join tomorrow. Sweden are already out courtesy of losing to the Co-Hosts and England. Ukraine need a win against England to qualify, nothing else will do and on their home patch they will be feeling confident. England only need to avoid defeat and they will make it to the quarters, whether they will make it to top spot or not depends on the French game and how many goals England can score with a certain Wayne Rooney back in the team (of course England could make it through with a defeat but that's a pretty unlikely scenario in which Sweden will need to beat France by a bigger margin than Ukraine beat England). For France, avoiding defeat will guarantee them qualification, a defeat and they will need to rely on England drawing or beating the Ukraine. And similar to England, they could make it through with a defeat.

Winners of Group D will face Italy.
Runners Up of Group D will face Spain.

Come on England!

[bretmeharty]

This is why I refuse to get involved into much football chat in any forum, because everyone is their own mark for thier player and/or club.

[MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch]

John

Are you joking or smoking?

[mystiroakey]

possibly both

[Guest]

who says i'm english, just because i support newcastle?????

If england lose to italy you will all be on here crying like babies about the tactics etc. mysterioakey has somehow brainwashed you all into believing this positive energy or vibe and refusing to admit the negatives and areas where england need to improve drastically.

I bet if england lose on sunday, you will all come out saying, ''well it was a good tournament for england, we've definitely over-achieved''...wtf????. It's the bloody media who just kept emphasising england had lost so many players and that all influenced the nation into thinking or having no expectations. This squad of players is very good and was expected to qualify from this group and beat sweden and a poor ukraine ranked 50+. Barry, Cahill & lampard to an extent due to the tactics would not have improved this squad much further.

[Crimey]

There have been more positives than negatives, hence why England have topped the group, are unbeaten and have scored more goals than anybody other than Spain.

People have talked about the negatives, they've pointed out when players like Young, Welbeck and Milner have underperformed and they have also praised when players do well.

Nobody has been unrealistic (bar Duty) but it seems to me John that you'll only be satisfied if people are overly critical. Well, when the season starts I'm sure I'll come on the Newcastle United News Thread and start pointing out all the negatives of Newcastle's performances.

[Hibbz]

The negativity surrounding England absolutely staggers me.

I don't even support or care about them and I'm willing to admit they have done fantastically well. Far better than I could ever believe.

I turned on the radio after the match and there was a phone in and most of the callers were complaining about how England had been rubbish because they couldn't pass it around like Spain or Germany. The so called pundits were all in agreement. What did they expect, just look at the players?

It appears to me that England have played to their strengths with some solid and committed defending and goals from crosses and it's got them through the group. Maybe it won't be enough to win the tournament but were I to be a supporter I'd be ecstatic.

I don't think there's been a more committed team and every single player has so far given 100%. What more can you ask?

[Liam]

John,

I actually agree with you that Barry, Lampard and Cahill are no great losses. I actually think having Adam Johnson and Lennon in the squad would have given England some real attacking threat going forward. To think the wingers are Downing, Milner and Walcott is astoundingly poor.

England have got out of the group, defended well apart from the Sweden game for that 15 min period and the goal vs France but apart from that they've been pretty solid as expected. Italy will be a tough game but I truly think now its the knock-out stage, anything can happen, but i'd still fancy one of Germany and Spain to be in the final.

[mystiroakey]

who says i'm english, just because i support newcastle?????

If england lose to italy you will all be on here crying like babies about the tactics etc. mysterioakey has somehow brainwashed you all into believing this positive energy or vibe and refusing to admit the negatives and areas where england need to improve drastically.

I bet if england lose on sunday, you will all come out saying, ''well it was a good tournament for england, we've definitely over-achieved''...wtf????. It's the bloody media who just kept emphasising england had lost so many players and that all influenced the nation into thinking or having no expectations. This squad of players is very good and was expected to qualify from this group and beat sweden and a poor ukraine ranked 50+. Barry, Cahill & lampard to an extent due to the tactics would not have improved this squad much further.

oii lol- keep me out of it pal.. Concentrate on negatives if you want- We are in a tourny- i dont expect us to get past the negatives just yet- This is a tourny and its about winning- however you do it!!

[Guest]

Why would fans being crying?

It seems John if fans cry you moan, if fans look at positives you will moan, if England win, you will moan, if England lose you will moan.

You give Victor Meldrew a run for his money i'll say that.

[mystiroakey]

The negativity surrounding England absolutely staggers me.

I don't even support or care about them and I'm willing to admit they have done fantastically well. Far better than I could ever believe.

I turned on the radio after the match and there was a phone in and most of the callers were complaining about how England had been rubbish because they couldn't pass it around like Spain or Germany. The so called pundits were all in agreement. What did they expect, just look at the players?

It appears to me that England have played to their strengths with some solid and committed defending and goals from crosses and it's got them through the group. Maybe it won't be enough to win the tournament but were I to be a supporter I'd be ecstatic.

I don't think there's been a more committed team and every single player has so far given 100%. What more can you ask?

spot on Hibbz

[Guest]

Yes i just got the impression that everybody's expectations just dropped because of the media enhancement of the fact we lost lampard and barry in particular. I think there both shocking, however people seemed to think because of this we've got an excuse and therefore lets lower our expectations and only highlight the positives in our poor squad and not dwell on the negatives of a supposedly inferior squad. That's my issue.

My second issue is these tactics or stupid belief that we have to play so negative because we dont have the qualities in the squad. Well from what i've seen during this tournament there isnt much quality bar germany. Our mindset has surely got to change from here on in. The tactics used so far have completely neutralised certain players abilities i.e young and we have absolutely no threat whatsoever from Milner down the right. We are up against a higher level of opposition in Italy and its about time we began to attack these teams instead of sitting back and inviting unneccessary pressure and giving the opposition a confidence boost. Those negative tactics were okay against ukraine who miss chance after chance but against italy, germany and spain you will get picked off with ease. Therefore we have to focus on improving the offensive side of our game hugely and attacking these teams defences that are actually poor. If you dont and continue with sitting back you are just playing to their strengths, and hoping to copy chelsea can only get you so far against the very best.

I actually think we can win this, although watching it maybe painful to watch!!!!!!

[azania]

[quote="Hibbz"]The negativity surrounding England absolutely staggers me.

I don't even support or care about them and I'm willing to admit they have done fantastically well. Far better than I could ever believe.

I turned on the radio after the match and there was a phone in and most of the callers were complaining about how England had been rubbish because they couldn't pass it around like Spain or Germany. The so called pundits were all in agreement. What did they expect, just look at the players?

It appears to me that England have played to their strengths with some solid and committed defending and goals from crosses and it's got them through the group. Maybe it won't be enough to win the tournament but were I to be a supporter I'd be ecstatic.

I don't think there's been a more committed team and every single player has so far given 100%. What more can you ask?[/quote]

A little bit of skill would help as opposed to route one football.

[GSC]

I'd rather win 1-0 than lose 4-3

[Hibbz]

Yeah sure I can see that Azania, but as a fan (not you or I but people who are) I assume you'd already know that the England players aren't exactly full of skill so why would you complain when they don't show any?

When you get lemons make lemonade.

[Guest]

but that's my point. With the chances that england are giving away 'with' these defensive tactics it's only a matter of time and against superior opposition that you will get punished, therefore winning 1-0 won't be realistic anymore.

[GSC]

Depends on your definition of chances (every shot is not a chance)

[Guest]

I just think some are under-rating the performances by the team. Take 2 years ago

1-1 USA
0-0 Algeria
1-0 Slovenia

Now.

1-1 France
3-2 Sweden
1-0 Ukraine

That for me is much tougher opposition and yet we have generated much better results.

That is why people are optimistic, but at the same please with how well the team has performed.

[Crimey]

Depends on your definition of chances (every shot is not a chance)

Exactly, I'd rather frustrate teams into taking stupid shots from range than getting caught on the break because we stupidly attacked them.

[GSC]

Spain didn't score more than 2 at the WC.

[Crimey]

Also John, there is more than losing Barry and Lampard that has lowered expectations, they were already low before their injuries.

It's the fact we lost our manager with very little preparation or time for the new manager, two friendly matches before being thrown into the a tough competition means that the team could struggle to gel quickly enough and adapt to the new tactics and style.

As LK has pointed out, history has shown us that we've been poor at tournaments, particularly in the group stages. So expectations would be low because the past has shown us that no matter the teams England face, we struggle. I'm sure this is hard for you to understand because you don't look at facts...

The quality in the squad is not as high as it has been in the past, somebody posted the Euro 2004 first XI before and the only position that has strengthened is goalkeeper, everywhere else has either got worse or stayed around the same level.

[MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch]

You think Barry and Lampard are shocking?

The defensive midfield lynchpin of the Premier League Champions, and the Premier League's highest goalscoring midfielder last season aside from Dempsey (and highest Premier League goalscoring midfielder full stop).

Yeah alright....

[GSC]

Given the performances pre euros I wasn't sure we'd make it out of the group.

I still doubt he can triumph vs the best teams, but at this point we have nothing to lose. Everything else is gravy at this point to me

[GSC]

Must say Lampard is very much past his best and don't really rate Barry.

Didn't really Carrick this year but before he was very much a sideways passer

[MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch]

I'm not having any criticism of Gary Barry. He's a super player

[Guest]

What is your obsession in believing that England have only given away 'chances' in the form of long range shots??????? England have been opened up on numerous occasions throughout the group stage and if it wasnt for Hart or the abysmal finishing of the opposition then we may of been in serious trouble.

Barry defensive lynchpin, he's shocking! How many games has be been bought off for City because they're behind or he's been totally ineffectual. Last game of season vs QPR, Barry was appaling and once he was bought off City scored two goals to win the title. He's dreadful. Okay, Lampard is not shocking but he's never getting in the first team ahead of gerrard and there's only room for one, so he would of warmed the bench during these euros or made late cameo's. Also he would of been restricted and frustrated with hodgson tactics of not being able to break forward just like Young is experiencing Nothing hugely missed by leaving them at home in my opinion

[MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch]

Anyway - like Crimey said. Expectation was low long before Barry and Lampard pulled out, it's nothing to do with that.
I just refute that they are shocking players.

And of course City are going to bring Barry off if they are behind. That's no reflection on his talent - that's because his talent is not one which is needed to score a goal!

[GSC]

What is your obsession with marking everytime somebody takes a potshot as a chance?

[Crimey]

What is your obsession in believing that England have only given away 'chances' in the form of long range shots??????? England have been opened up on numerous occasions throughout the group stage and if it wasnt for Hart or the abysmal finishing of the opposition then we may of been in serious trouble.

I can remember only once in the French game where they got into the box with a good chance, three times in the Sweden game, two of which were from set pieces so hopefully we can learn from those mistakes and aren't a result of sitting back, the third wasn't a very good chance, Ukraine got in once with the header.

The rest have been poor long shots.

[Liam]

France-Both teams nervous as it is the first game Both lacked the fire power to open each other up, that and the two teams were set up very well. Both were happy to take the draw.

Sweden-Another poor side but at one point England were in free fall when 2-1 down. Dreadful defending for both goals put to shame the new aura of England's well disciplined, well set up and tough to beat side. Roy brought on Walcott and his pace caused all sorts of problems and England showed great spirit and commitment to earn the win.

Ukraine-At some points again England's defence was a little ragged. Terry was caught out for the goal that wasn't a goal despite being over the line but in fact it was offside blah blah blah. There were chances there for Ukraine and England know they were let off the hook slightly.

I think they've done well to qualify but I think that against the better sides in the knockout stages, England can't afford to gift some of the chances they have given to Sweden and Ukraine to the top sides, otherwise it will be Germany 2010 all over again.

[mystiroakey]

another poor side?

are you saying france are a poor side then.

btw sweden are a decent side in my book.

[Liam]

another poor side?

are you saying france are a poor side then.

btw sweden are a decent side in my book.

I don't think France are great, considering the side they can put out, they have been pretty poor. Scrappy win over Ukraine and then went and lost 2-0 to Sweden, who were already out, which sums them up. They aren't great Sweden, they have Ibra but even he is hot and cold. Not allot in that side.

[mystiroakey]

So is almost every side in world football poor then?

I really dont understand your logic..

[mystiroakey]

Deal with it Matyr- Sweden are a very decent capable side, France are certainly also a very good side. There are only a handfull better in most peoples minds.

But its ok- we can call every team in the world poor bar spain and germany if your eally want- but its not very good for a constructive debate IMO

[GG]

Sweden are really poor. But we've been over this before.

[Liam]

I just don't really think Sweden are great. Yes they qualify but they never threaten to win it. France are in a period of transition and were a shambles at the last world cup due to ego's and what not. They haven't played as well as I had imagined. England aren't a great side either and have done very well to get through the group.

[mystiroakey]

Sweden are really poor. But we've been over this before.

So now there are really poor. France are poor, i take it england are also poor then. What teams are OK- whats the average quality team?

[GG]

Sweden are really poor. But we've been over this before.

So now there are really poor. France are poor, i take it england are also poor then. What teams are OK- whats the average quality team?

France aren't poor, one freak result doesn't change that. England are average not poor.

[mystiroakey]

England are average- in what respects?

You think sweden are really poor- what are ireland, what are scotland, what are macedonia?

[GG]

Ireland are really poor, Scotland and Macedonia are dire.

[mystiroakey]

What is the facination with just calling all teams poor, really poor or average lol- Lets get some reality to this thread please..

Just getting into the euro is tough enough for most..

[Liam]

England are average- in what respects?

You think sweden are really poor- what are ireland, what are scotland, what are macedonia?

England are average Mys don't kid yourself, they are hardly setting the world alight are they. I'd say they have one man who can change a game.

Sweden are maybe not a poor side but slightly below England I'd say. Ireland, Scotland and Macedonia are all pretty below average sides.

[GG]

I'd say Sweden are very poor in comparison to England. Only Ibra would get into the English side.

[mystiroakey]

ok then GG - rank the teams left in the comp?

Mine are

spain- possibly the best side ever assembled.
germany- pretty close to the above..
italy - top level team
france-
England,portugal - pretenders but more often than not get out of the groups in worlds and euros- in the top 8/16 more than not
greece, czech, good solid teams

[Guest]

Sweden are not 'poor' in my book. Didn't they beat France last night in a dead rubber? Poor sides take regular hammerings so yeah you could put Ireland in that bracket but they were in a very tough group.

England are probably second tier, hardly average. Great no but not just average.

[GG]

Sure...

1. Spain
2. Germany
3. Italy
4. Portugal
5. England/France
7. Czech Republic
8. Greece

[Liam]

1. Spain
2. Germany
3. Portugal
4. Italy
5. England/France
6. Czechs/Greece

[mystiroakey]

England are average- in what respects?

You think sweden are really poor- what are ireland, what are scotland, what are macedonia?

England are average Mys don't kid yourself, they are hardly setting the world alight are they. I'd say they have one man who can change a game.

Sweden are maybe not a poor side but slightly below England I'd say. Ireland, Scotland and Macedonia are all pretty below average sides.

I just dont think you understand the concept of average..

[Guest]

Martyr_94 i suggest you read my last 20 posts on this topic and see what your up against. These people will not listen to or accept any negative comments regarding england. If you do they will gang up on you talking absolute garbage and going off subject. They coudnt even admit to me that ukraine were the better side against england and that apparently ukraine had no chances against england and kept rattling on about the fact england have only conceded long range efforts during the tournament.

The facts are england have qualified, well done! nothing special has been achieved because with a team england have it is to be expected. In my and alot of peoples opinion it was a poor, poor group. The amount of time, space and chances we conceded having played these defensive tactics, it is suprising that we didnt lose at least one game. The opposition has been dire in my opinion and england have struggled because the defensive tactics have handcuffed our most creative players.

But this will all be rejected from positive thinking man mysterioakey who is never wrong about anything

[mystiroakey]

John are you in love with me!

[Guest]

haha

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