Who is holding Wales back? The forwards?

Wales' forwards did not supply our backline with go forward ball. They did not carry effectively enough and the balance was clearly wrong in the side. Gethin Jenkins was completely shattered and offered little, Adam Jones a great scrummager but again struggled to make an impact anywhere else. Can Wales afford to have players missing in attack? My answer is no. We cannot sacrifice ball carriers for the sake of reputations or the fear we may lose a few scrums.

If we look at NZ and Australia they place a much smaller emphasis on the scrum and more on the dynamic, quicker forwards to carry the ball and implement a gameplan. Wales need to shift their gameplan in this way.

The Back Row:
I start here because this is arguably Wales' strongest positions in terms of depth and quality.
Wales do have world class back row players.

Lydiate is an excellent tackler but I would like to see him carry more forcefully. He is often given the ball at a standstill (which is not his fault). Wales need to utilise his size and power running at full speed crashing into the opposition.

Warburton: A brilliant scavenger and carries well. Would like to see him get some game time at 8/6 in conjunction with tupuric in the later stages of games.

Faletau: Wales need to rediscover a gameplan that allows this guy to get into the wide channels attacking and carrying at the backlines. He has unbelievable balance, power and speed and i feel he has suffered this tour. I would like to see him returning kicks with Halfpenny and the back 3. Either in support or a first up carrier.

Ryan Jones: An excellent player that can do a job at 6/8 in the backrow. A solid performer but i still believe the above 3 mentioned are the best going forward.

Justin Tupuric: Offers more around the park in terms of support. Must get more game time. A useful weapon off the bench that wasnt utilised in Australia.

Second Row:
A good amount of depth in the Wales Squad. My favoured pairing would be Ian Evans and Bradley Davies with Alyn Wyn on the bench. A tough call between the four including charteris. Ian Evans & Alyn Wyn offer more pace as a double but Davies adds more power in the carry. Would like to see him mature and reduce his penalty count. Carrying must be from depth to aid our back row.

Front Row:
Now I'm in for it here. I look at NZ, SA and OZ and they all have a mobile front row. Gethin Jenkins is our most mobile. Adam Jones our least. Both have been excellent for Wales but lacked real bite when carrying. I would like to see more of Craig mitchel, Rees Gill and Owens. They are quick, mobile, powerful carriers. Gethin Jenkins & Adam Jones must be involved still but we have to increase the amount of speed and ball carriers on the field.

Forward Pack I think can take us forward:

1) Gill 2) Owens 3) Mitchel/Jones
4) Bradley Davies 5) Ian Evans
6) Lydiate 7) Warburton 8) Faletau

Subs: Rees, Gethin Jenkins, Alyn wyn/Charteris, Tupuric/R Jones

Our backline does not need changing but the emphasis of our gameplan must change. We apparently have this marvellous fitness but do not use it to our advantage.

The theory is we kick and chase to keep the ball in play and thus back our fitness to wear teams down. Its wrong. All we do with the southern hemisphere sides is feed the machine.

If our fitness is as good as it is we must hold on to the ball for longer periods. This means dropping loose forwards for kicks and returning them with our wingers. North and Cuthbert must touch the ball more often and the back three must support each other.

Hold on to the ball, wear teams down. Carry, carry and carry some more until they are sick of tackling. We must trust our skills at the contact area and improve the overall mobility of our fowards.

That for me is the main reason we lose to southern hemispher sides!!

Tory government

Possibly, seabiscuit?

But isnt the Welsh front row the (LIONS) front row? Surely the best in the NH. So every body keeps being told any way.

Majestic...that is the problem in Wales. True, 2 years ago if they were missing you would point to it as a massive loss.

But Wales have worked hard to develop depth only for these players to survive on reputation rather than form. If you looked at Rhys Gill he was outstanding when he played. He carries well, tackles and is very mobile.

Reputations cannot/should not sustain you a place in the national side. You cannot afford it when trying to beat the top three/four in the world. Which to please, my english comrades (are number four) in the world.

I just think they need a bloody good rest, we went to Australia lost 3 tests very narrowly, got more than the usual amount of penalties against us due to different referee interpretations.

Job over, we could of won 3, but didnt win any, life goes on, let the boys have a good off season and rest, ready for November.

Joking aside whats holding them back is that its extremely hard to put together a side under the northern hemisphere structure that can out compete with the tri nations chaps.
Dont tell Mrgnnwang and the other trolls I said this but there has to be an element of misfortune that stopped that them getting at least one win from the 3 summer and two world cup games against sanzars which all went to the wire.
Wales have been about as competitive for a year as any NH side has been since 2003, so Id argue that whats holding them back is being European.

Individual players and parts of the side have gone through peaks and troughs (everyone blames Preistland now, in the WC he was cast as a big part of the reason Wales were up there) I struggle to see how they can easily get much better, replace one weak link and another one will appear. Sure on their day they could actually beat anyone (yes i mean it!) but most days it wont be their day.
maybe there is an extra 5% that could be found from sonewhere, but Id say NZ are 10% ahead still. I doubt any of the NH sides will threaten them with their current crops of players.

Al lots also made of Wales' childrens cup "success"coming joining not first place or whateverit was. If you actually look at the sides they played and results aside from the 9-6 win over NZ it really wasnt that amazing. Their tournment record was barely any better than the 7th placed teams.
Weve seen England do very well at age group and B team level for years and fail to turn that into anything meaningful at the senior level.
Whilst the WRU has clearly done a very good (if painful) job of saving Welsh rugby over the last decade its got a long way to go to build a structure and culture that could produce sides that can rival the very top.

Arguing about whether Hook Bigger or Preistalnd should be 10 wont make that much of a difference IMO. But it is fun for the internets.

Ha very true. I agree with what what youve said. Misfortune does play a part.

Priestland was not at his best. But neither were; warburton, JD, North, Faletau, Jenkins and wyn jones. My point is that you are right NZ, OZ/SA do have that extra 10% and on most occasions we won't win. But we have to stop limiting ourselves to playing with the ball for 20 mins because we back our fitness levels.

Stop trying to stay in the game and take the game to them. Our forwards looked shattered. But why oh why do we place so much emphasis on the scrum. It is a lottery. Gill and owens should of played more and tupuric should of played with warburton and lydiate. I would of even moved ryan jones to lock bearing in mind how shattred wyn jones looked.

The non use of evans bamboozled me. His wife must of been livid!

Shifty.... yes they looked shattered. Do you think we should change our gameplan to suit our strengths? I.e. get north, cuthbert and davies running on to the ball.

Our forwards were often static our at a snails pace when carrying. They need to take the ball at pace and work in pods.

Like I said I would like to see us return kicks by running. Drop a loose forward back. The shame was that north and cuthbert were often upfield when halfpenny recieved the ball, giving him no option to kick.

We should be committing less to the breakdown, fan out in the oz 22 when they have the ball. Drop players back and force them to kick to our loose forwards or back three. Then return with interest!

or you could try recruiting rugby league players and fat kiwis *shrug*

I think the forwards are good, probably the reason why we play a lot better than we have in previous seasons. After 3 tests against the quick forwards in the Wallaby team ours guys should know to what level they need to raise their intesnsity to. That way they may be able to get to a breakdown before Pocock does.

Morgannwg......I dont doubt that mate. But are our forwards up to the intensity? I think they would be, but they spend so much time chasing the ball they are nackered when they finally have to get to a breakdown or carry the ball.

Our gameplan is not the way to back our fitness levels. Holding onto the ball and trusting our players to support would be better.

I think they are very good in defence in very good at going forward, possibly the best we have been. Aus were very good in the opening moments of that third test and no matter how fast they run onto the ball they seemed to keep hitting a red brick wall. Of course there is room for improvement, I'd like to see some guys like Gethin, Mike Phillips rested for the first test of the AI, then perhaps on the bench for the 2nd game. Hopefully we'll have a big squad to take on NZ then. Oh and with that said it would be wise to ease Roberts back in. I would start with Beck and have the Doc on the bench, covering wing and centre.

Roberts is an interesting one. Beck is suspect in defence for me. Roberts should start against OZ and NZ and play beck against samoa and argentina. For me Roberts is our real go forward man. I would like to see him being used with options off him i.e. north, cuthbert and JD.

A defending team wouldnt know who to pick up. I would like to see Harry Robinson too. He could be devastating off the bench. I still would like to see hook and roberts play together more.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:or you could try recruiting rugby league players and fat kiwis *shrug*

No of any worthwhile with a welsh grandmother? Is Howarth still playing?

Permian88 wrote:Roberts is an interesting one. Beck is suspect in defence for me. Roberts should start against OZ and NZ and play beck against samoa and argentina. For me Roberts is our real go forward man. I would like to see him being used with options off him i.e. north, cuthbert and JD.

A defending team wouldnt know who to pick up. I would like to see Harry Robinson too. He could be devastating off the bench. I still would like to see hook and roberts play together more.

That's what I meant. Start Beck with Roberts on the bench for those two games, then switch them around for Oz an NZ. Not sure about Robinson yet.

That's what I meant. Start Beck with Roberts on the bench for those two games, then switch them around for Oz an NZ. Not sure about Robinson yet. [/quote]

Apologies, must of mis-read. I think our 10 needs to play flatter whoever that may be. We are a bit too predictable.

Permian88 wrote:Roberts is an interesting one. Beck is suspect in defence for me. Roberts should start against OZ and NZ and play beck against samoa and argentina. For me Roberts is our real go forward man. I would like to see him being used with options off him i.e. north, cuthbert and JD.

A defending team wouldnt know who to pick up. I would like to see Harry Robinson too. He could be devastating off the bench. I still would like to see hook and roberts play together more.

i think we will need to field our strongest team from the get go...Argentina will be a different side after a 4 Nations campaign

mowgli wrote:

Permian88 wrote:Roberts is an interesting one. Beck is suspect in defence for me. Roberts should start against OZ and NZ and play beck against samoa and argentina. For me Roberts is our real go forward man. I would like to see him being used with options off him i.e. north, cuthbert and JD.

A defending team wouldnt know who to pick up. I would like to see Harry Robinson too. He could be devastating off the bench. I still would like to see hook and roberts play together more.

i think we will need to field our strongest team from the get go...Argentina will be a different side after a 4 Nations campaign

Broken demoralised and annoyed they have to fly round the world yet again?

Yes no doubt but they will have gained invaluable experience and I think putting out experimental combinations and 2nd tier players could be risky. I think Wales need come away from the autumn with 3 and Samoa and Argentina are capabl of upsetting Wales and have done so before

The forwards you selected except I Evans is the first test pack, why do you think they will get us going forward more than the 2 and 3rd test packs? I agree I Evans should have played but not with Bradley Davies he dull as a brush giving away daft penalties. R Jones has proven he is a consistent, more powerful and experienced performer than Toby, his time is still to come.

If I was one of the forwards I would be pretty hissed off with a clown is kicking the ball away badly every time you win the dam thing, a good kick can give you go forward but bad kicking your are on the defensive. I believe we have a very good pack but our 9 and 10 waste it.

Permian88 wrote:Majestic...that is the problem in Wales. True, 2 years ago if they were missing you would point to it as a massive loss.

But Wales have worked hard to develop depth only for these players to survive on reputation rather than form. If you looked at Rhys Gill he was outstanding when he played. He carries well, tackles and is very mobile.

Reputations cannot/should not sustain you a place in the national side. You cannot afford it when trying to beat the top three/four in the world. Which to please, my english comrades (are number four) in the world.

I dont think that selecting players on reputation alone is just down to the problem for Wales. All NH teams, well England, Wales, and Ireland have been doing that for years.

It just seems to be better the devil you know. Rather than take risk on some one else.

I have not been watching rugby as long as most of you on here, so please feel free to tell me I do not know what I am talking about. ( Skin of Rhino brain of Gnat comes to mind.)

Why everyone states that the #10 position is the most crucial I cannot understand.

Before the 10 can look up and make a decision, he has to have the ball. If that ball is slow getting to him his decisions are limited to say the least, for obvious reasons.

I think back to Peter Stringer playing for Ireland, to me a pain in the nether regions, but none the less a good quick provider of ball. That gave the #10 time to evaluate his options. Opposition players were usually still out of position, or making their way back to position which gave, usually ROG, time and space to get the kick or a line break if it was on.

The Welsh forwards have provided plenty of quick ball, yet RP does not seem to have the luxury of the time to make the correct decision.

Watching Australia's back play seemed like watch some well rehearsed machine with runners coming from deep and slick passing. But, that all stemmed from the players knowing that their scrum half would get them quick ball. As soon as the ball left the SH's hands the plays started, if it was not for Wales outstanding defence we would have been, what is termed colloquially as 'mullered'.

JMHO for what it is worth.

IAOB.

I wouldn't say Lydiate or Faletau are world class, Faletau in particular has done nothing of note (yet) to back that up.

gowales wrote:I wouldn't say Lydiate or Faletau are world class, Faletau in particular has done nothing of note (yet) to back that up.

He was part of the world cup winning joint 3rd place side, thats something of note?

I wouldn't have Bradley davies in the side ahead of AWJ or Charteris, for me our best combo there is Charteris and Evans.

Front row - We all know that there are better scrummagres out there than Jenkins but it was his other attributes that secured him his reputation. When for whatever reason they are not there at the moment so I think we need to give some serious game time to Rhys Gill.

As for Adam Jones well we all know how royaly screwed we would be if he gets injured, him and Cole are the stand out T/Heads for me at the moment.

For me:

We're fine at front row come scrum time, but the lineout is too inconsistent. This could obviously been caused either by Hooker, 2nd rows, or both. Therefore I'd keep the props and maybe look to a better marksman at hooker. But it has to be someone who has a good working relationship with the 2nd rows. Throwing in new combos doesn't always help the rhythm. We need to persist until the group works well together, and that takes time. Look at SA who have often had the best lineout in the world and I think that was based on the regularity of combo and familiarity between John Smit, Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield. Years of practice. We chop and change our hooker and 2nd rows all the time so I sympathise with them to a certain extent.

Back row - I think 6 (Lydiate) and 7 (Warburton - wasn't match fit and rushed back too soon. Tipuric is a good player as competition/injury cover and could make the short his own) are fine. Faletau is the week link for me. Good at club level, but at international level I think you need a powerhouse off the base of the scrum and at 21 years old I think we're asking too much of him at this age in a power position (and I'm a Dragons fan). It'll come, but let's not rely on him for something he's not yet physically developed enough to do. Ryan Jones is in form and can cover 6 too, so I'd go for him.

All other problems are related to 9 IMO. Whether the game plan, Mike Phillips' inability to 'be quick', or poor rucking skills, we are completely stifling our creative and dangerous backs by being so slow to get the ball out to them. The opposition has far too much time to set their defensive line. They are not made to think by our attack. You can see it coming from a mile off. We often see the game changing for the better when Phillips goes off. Yes, he's scored some important tries for us like in the WC but he has lost a lot of speed of late (in both body and mind it seems) so he is holding us back. Win the ruck, get the ball out quickly and let our obviously good backs do what they do best.

In summary:
Keep props
Sort out lineout (either new hooker or locks, but then persist with those combos until they get good, not changing them everytime).
Change 9 for faster alternative.
Keep rest of backs who will improve with better ball.

For me 2 people are responsible:
- Coaches, for picking players who haven't played enough rugby or weren't fit enough, i.e. Warburton
- Priestland, for being almost as much of a clown as O'Gara for the Lions in 09. If that 2nd test was won, I reckon you could have backed it up with the 3rd.

In fact if he's not doing the place kicking, why is Priestland in the team????

bath

Lack of options! He isn't our best 10, for me Biggar, Hook, and possibly Tovey are better 10's, but he's our best choice at present. He has his faults, but he does a lot of good too, and he doesn't half make our backline move when given the chance, despite being targetted.

He's got the best distribution out of Biggar, Hook and Tovey and is the strongest defensively. So i'd say that's a big reason why Gatland is keen on sticking with him.

gowales

If people want to pin point things that lost us the tour.

TEST 1
- James Hook failing to nail a the scrum half (can't remember his name dammit) in a one on one leading to the try at the start of the second half.
- James Hook giving a silly pen away in our 22 for holding on when he should have kicked clear as there was no support and two Aussie players closing in on him

TEST 2
- Rhys Priestland kicking the ball down field when there was thirdy seconds to go
- Richard Hibbard needlessly killing the ball in the opposition half with a handfull seconds to go
- The pack as a whole engaging the Aussie pack off the line out and then collapsing the rolling maul

TEST 3
- The pack as a whole trying to get a rolling maul going when there were no Aussies involved
- Luke Charteris mouthing at the ref when he knew he was in the wrong
- Not sure who, again giving a stupid pen away seconds after conceding a silly on in the Aussie half.
- James Hook fly hacking the ball down the touch line instead of in field where he could have ran up and scored a try instead of the ball rolling out into touch for an Aussie line (ok, yes that one is a joke)

But all in all if you ask people why we lost the tour 0-3 people will tell you Rhys Priestland! Poor sod.

SS

Will disagree with you on a few points...

Genia is an excellent player but Hook should've snagged him at least, 1/2p would've!

RP kicking the ball away with 30 to go, that was a judgement call, and NOT a mistake. It was kick the ball or risk getting pinged for holding on in our own half. I'd kick all day long!

The no engagement issue from the Aussies was a ref call. Wales were engaged, and set the maul, because Aus pack dropped off doesn't mean they were not engaged. The ref ajudged the maul to have become a ruck, and that Wales set a 2nd maul, which IMO he was wrong as the ball carrier never went to ground.

Charteris was very frustrated by a number of refs decisions... but it was still moronic!

RP was far from the reason we lost!

Bluesmam - I would agree with you on Priestland kicking, especially as it is the tactics we use. Kick it into their half and deal with it there. However, if I had not put it down then I would have had calls of one-eyed fired at me from all angles.

Yes - because how cannot it NOT be a mistake to kick possession away with 90 seconds on the clock. One more recycle would have done won the match.

Still, RP was merely following Howley instructions, as Howley made clear when he congratulated RP on kicking the ball to the Aussies and picked him for the next match.

Lesson: do what Howley says, even if it leads to a loss, otherwise you don't get picked,

samuraidragon wrote:Yes - because how cannot it NOT be a mistake to kick possession away with 90 seconds on the clock. One more recycle would have done won the match.

Still, RP was merely following Howley instructions, as Howley made clear when he congratulated RP on kicking the ball to the Aussies and picked him for the next match.

Lesson: do what Howley says, even if it leads to a loss, otherwise you don't get picked,

Spot on but it is not Howley, it is Gatland's way including picking off form and injured players.

Why do people keep blaming Howley? This tour looked like Gatland's selections playing Gatland's style.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

gowales wrote:I wouldn't say Lydiate or Faletau are world class, Faletau in particular has done nothing of note (yet) to back that up.

He was part of the world cup winning joint 3rd place side, thats something of note?

He was pretty damn impressive leading up to and at the RWC.

Good assessment though I'm not sure I agree with your team.

Positive that we have options at seven and eight where we had none a few years ago, same goes for locks.

Good group of young players all chomping at the bit.

Bad point was a lot of international rugby this season probably took out a little too much for the players. Definitely not the fans though, it has been a proud year to support Wales. We are doing well and look to continue so for a while.

I still don't think the option to kick was wrong more the execution of that kick.

Front row - Lets see Gill get some more game time and try develop another T/Head.

2nd Row - Evans is IMO our No1 (why didnt play god knows) let try find a partner for him, for me its Charteris.

Back Row - Lydiate was still putting body on line even if bit off form and for me is head and shoulders above all our other options at N06, Faletau needs a good pre-season and recovery from injury likewise Warburton but with Jones and Tipuric on such good form its not bad there.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I still don't think the option to kick was wrong more the execution of that kick.

Front row - Lets see Gill get some more game time and try develop another T/Head.

2nd Row - Evans is IMO our No1 (why didnt play god knows) let try find a partner for him, for me its Charteris.

Back Row - Lydiate was still putting body on line even if bit off form and for me is head and shoulders above all our other options at N06, Faletau needs a good pre-season and recovery from injury likewise Warburton but with Jones and Tipuric on such good form its not bad there.

I agree with you on most points, however Lydiate's dip in form may well be due to him carrying an injury. And there are a handful of this welsh squad that are going under the knife pretty much as soon as their home. Also I am not a fan of Gill he seems somewhat of a pen machine (from what I have seen), but we do need to realistically look at our options in the front row.

SS,

Yh a lot are pencilled in for surgery as for Gill he seemed to do well in his appearance in the 6 Nations but it is an area we need to develop especially T/Head

Permian88 wrote:we have to stop limiting ourselves to playing with the ball for 20 mins because we back our fitness levels.

Stop trying to stay in the game and take the game to them.

Absolutely right. At the moment we're trying to stay with the opposition in the hope we can sneak it in the last ten minutes, instead of trying to have the game won by then. It's a containment game and I want to see us go all out from the first whistle. Let's have people running on to the ball (how pedestrian were our forwards in the third Test, apart from when Ryan Jones scored his try?) and let's play a scrum half who can deliver quick ball.

This should be the lesson taken from this series: that we can take the Wallabies (albeit a Wallabies side missing some big players) right to the wire despite choosing to defend for large periods of the game. Seeing as that's the case, let's start keeping hold of the ball and taking the game to the opposition, regardless of who they are.

Hapless......they were absolutely hapless themselves when carrying the ball.

Sad as this may sound, i have just watched the game again and for the first 30 minutes Wales played some of there best rugby. It was no surprise that when they kept the ball in hand they made yards and yards and yards.

Pocock was a threat but when the forwards keep beating the first & sometimes second man, It is very hard for any openside to jackle the ball.

Wales gave away some needless penalties (though the referee was pathetic for both sides). And most of these penalties came from poor kicks or handling errors from kick offs.

Very little points came from a jackle won by pocock. If anything the only time he was able to get over the ball and steal it was when they were defending there own line.

Often this was because Wales made the mistake of letting the ball carrier get isolated.

Wales should look at the best and worst of their rugby played on tour and it wouldnt surprise me if wales made a bigger gain carrying the ball than from kicks. Wales do not need to be ridiculous about carrying the ball, there is always a time to kick. But I question how long Wales players actually practice box kicking or defensive kicks that do not go to touch?

Wales are not south africa. Wales play more like NZ or Australia (though not quite up to that standard yet ).

The organisation of chase and the quality of kicks Wales produced were sometimes woeful. In fact, they continually rushed into kicks where the could of organised a better chase.

The balance of kicking/running must be changed!

Look at your argument the other way round.

What are the benefits of kicking rath than phase play?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:If people want to pin point things that lost us the tour.

TEST 1
- James Hook failing to nail a the scrum half (can't remember his name dammit) in a one on one leading to the try at the start of the second half.
- James Hook giving a silly pen away in our 22 for holding on when he should have kicked clear as there was no support and two Aussie players closing in on him
- Beck ball watching for Australia's third try

TEST 2
- Rhys Priestland kicking the ball down field when there was thirdy seconds to go. Disagree once he was given the ball by Webb it was his only option!
- Richard Hibbard needlessly killing the ball in the opposition half with a handfull seconds to go. Not sure he did collapse the maul, I suspect some Ossie gamesmanship but he did go in at the side for the earlier penalty.
- The pack as a whole engaging the Aussie pack off the line out and then collapsing the rolling maul. Disagree, an Australian forward came in from the side, should have been penalty to Wales
- Beck again ball watching and leaving too big a gap for Warburton to defend for Australia's only try.

TEST 3
- The pack as a whole trying to get a rolling maul going when there were no Aussies involved. Again not sure this call was correct, it's not the way I have seen this law interpreted in the past.
- Luke Charteris mouthing at the ref when he knew he was in the wrong
- Not sure who, again giving a stupid pen away seconds after conceding a silly on in the Aussie half.
- James Hook fly hacking the ball down the touch line instead of in field where he could have ran up and scored a try instead of the ball rolling out into touch for an Aussie line (ok, yes that one is a joke) I agree this is a joke, the kick should have been in field but there is no way Hook has the pace to chase that kick the lengthy of the field.
But all in all if you ask people why we lost the tour 0-3 people will tell you Rhys Priestland! Poor sod.

I have added my comments to ScarletSpiderman's post, I will also answer offer my answer to the question in the title of this article. Yes Wales forwards are holding them back and are the single reason they lost to Australia, not Rhys Priestland!

Actually Hook;s kick was the right option - he had some Aussies in front of him. And he did outpace Barnes and would clearly have scored with a kinder bounce. Some things are not meant to be, and Wales beating Australia appears to be one of them.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would blame RP for losing the second match. but that doesn't mean that kicking away possession was the right option (though probably a Howley instruction), and it doesn't mean our halfbacks are immune from criticism for the series loss. They were totally outplayed by their opposite numbers.

I think we'll lose to the Wallabies again in the autumn. They're likely to be able to field their first-choice XV, and I think we're going to feel added pressure to beat them at home having run them so close away from home. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the feeling I get.

If we are going to beat them, we'll need to kick less - and better - and we'll need a whole lot more urgency from the pack, in attack and defence. I want to see us counter-ruck, it's all well and good trusting our defence but if the ball's there to be won let's try and turn them over. Selecting form players might help, too.

samuraidragon wrote:Actually Hook;s kick was the right option - he had some Aussies in front of him. And he did outpace Barnes and would clearly have scored with a kinder bounce. Some things are not meant to be, and Wales beating Australia appears to be one of them.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would blame RP for losing the second match. but that doesn't mean that kicking away possession was the right option (though probably a Howley instruction), and it doesn't mean our halfbacks are immune from criticism for the series loss. They were totally outplayed by their opposite numbers.

That is why it should have been more in feild, as it would not have bounced into touch. But like I said I was taking the urine with that one.

Not one individual or set of individuals is to blame for the performances, we simply weren't good enough and lost to the superior side. Although I felt the performance got progressively better with each test, we still got what we deserved. We still might have come away with a win or even two for all our ineptitude at the breakdown but we have general indiscipline and a certain brainless kick to blame for that not being the case.

Evidently Wales is far from the finished article. I don't see how there can be any doubting the improvement over the last few seasons but this young side still has much to learn if it is to top the achievements of its predecessors.

Looking back over some full World Cup games I can't help but notice that our game has stuttered and slowed since NZ. The likes of Faletau and Warbs were all over the ruck and the big runners in North and Roberts were proving an absolute 'mare against any defence. There was raw hunger, passion and excitement about Wales back in September/October but ever since we seem to have taken a more conservative approach. That's not to say some aspects don't remain in part but if you look back over any WC game you'll see Wales were never lacking in the aggressive and ruthless stakes.

This tour just passed and the majority of the 6N the pace has declined and we look more like a side cautiously defending its position and status than the team which set out to shatter expectations and give nothing less than 100% at every ask.

A win over SA, Aus or NZ must come, be it this year or next. It is the natural next step to take and we have failed at it most recently. The longer this goes on the harder future Welsh teams will find it to displace them.