Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

Of course there are shades of grey but ultimately nobody can be sent to jail for saying they would like to kiddy fiddle but won't as it's illegal and cannot include consent by definition.
They go to jail when they break the law by looking at images or worse acts. So what do you do, change the laws ? Having an open debate won't change the laws, it will still come down to the same thing.
So whether they are deemed evil by society or not is ultimately fairly irrelevant as far as I can see. The end game remains the same.

[Skydriver]

At one stage on the golf forum this afternoon there were 25 on-line. A record?

We're also closing in on 75,000 posts in total, if that qualifies as a milestone of some sort(?).

But still way behind the mega-boards of e.g. rugby union, boxing... and sports gaming?!?

[JAS]

I don't think non-domiciled scots should get a vote. Why should they if they're not here contributing to the scottish economy?

JC raised an interesting point though. Not only english folk but our immigration levels must have grown quite a bit in the last forty of fifty years. Can't see either of those groups voting for independence.

Of course they contribute Gael, they pay UK taxes and the UK exchequer subsidises the Scottish economy.
On a more direct level I spend plenty of my English earned Sterling each time I come up home to touch base.
Contribution is a small aspect of it though. I currently have a UK passport and I was born in Largs. I'm happy with my UK passport as well as happy being Scottish, I'd like to keep it that way and I'd like a say in being able to keep it that way. I may well (infact more a probability than a possibility) move back up hame when I stop working (dont worry i wont be a drain on the pension system) I don't want to be having to reapply for citizenship.

[hend085]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/20095663

Tiger Woods left trailing by Robert Garrigus at Asia Pacific Classic......

pictures is JB Holmes 8 shots off the lead in a tie for 20th. at least hes playing i suppose

[mystiroakey]

Well these supposed scots working and living in england would be very foolish to vote for independance. This fact amuses me because its normally the ones against independance what say they shouldnt get a vote!!

[kwinigolfer]

hend0

[navyblueshorts]

Re. non-dom Scots and referendum voting. How do you define someone who's Scottish??? My wife's grand father was from Dunblane - does my wife get to vote as a quarter Scot? How many generations distant would be eligible?
Much as I think Salmond is a prat, I don't think it can be practically done on anything but residency.

[navyblueshorts]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/20095663

Tiger Woods left trailing by Robert Garrigus at Asia Pacific Classic......

pictures is JB Holmes 8 shots off the lead in a tie for 20th. at least hes playing i suppose

More exceptional golf journalism from the BBC golf team I see .

[JeffCarnage]

Re. non-dom Scots and referendum voting. How do you define someone who's Scottish??? My wife's grand father was from Dunblane - does my wife get to vote as a quarter Scot? How many generations distant would be eligible?
Much as I think Salmond is a prat, I don't think it can be practically done on anything but residency.

Completely agree. Although, I'm quite keen to pick holes in everything Salmond does.

[JeffCarnage]

Some things never change. Their level of attention to detail is awful. It always has been.

[JeffCarnage]

Some things never change. Their level of attention to detail is awful. It always has been.

This was in reference to the BBC article!

[kwinigolfer]

They're getting worse.
Bunch of sycophantic idiots, on every sport. Incredible.

[JeffCarnage]

They're getting worse.
Bunch of sycophantic idiots, on every sport. Incredible.

An interview for a job as a BBC employee.....

'Have you got a degree in journalism?'

'No'.

'Have you got any journalism experience?'

'No'.

'Are you a fan of people such as Matt Dawson, Lineker, Tuffers, Mark Bright, Spoony, and Mark Lawrenson?'

'Yes'.

'I'm pleased to say you've got the job'.

[JAS]

Re. non-dom Scots and referendum voting. How do you define someone who's Scottish??? My wife's grand father was from Dunblane - does my wife get to vote as a quarter Scot? How many generations distant would be eligible?
Much as I think Salmond is a prat, I don't think it can be practically done on anything but residency.

Completely agree. Although, I'm quite keen to pick holes in everything Salmond does.

Birthplace??

[JeffCarnage]

Re. non-dom Scots and referendum voting. How do you define someone who's Scottish??? My wife's grand father was from Dunblane - does my wife get to vote as a quarter Scot? How many generations distant would be eligible?
Much as I think Salmond is a prat, I don't think it can be practically done on anything but residency.

Completely agree. Although, I'm quite keen to pick holes in everything Salmond does.

Birthplace??

Torquay.

[Skydriver]

They're getting worse.
Bunch of sycophantic idiots, on every sport. Incredible.

An interview for a job as a BBC employee.....

'Have you got a degree in journalism?'

'No'.

'Have you got any journalism experience?'

'No'.

'Are you a fan of people such as Matt Dawson, Lineker, Tuffers, Mark Bright, Spoony, and Mark Lawrenson?'

'Yes'.

'I'm pleased to say you've got the job'.

I'll refrain from making a comment about the BBC's current troubles, but I recall there was an incident a few years ago when some chap turned up for a job interview but ended up being grilled on live TV (he was mistaken for an expert guest brought on to discuss a certain news item).

He didn't get the job in the end.

[JeffCarnage]

They're getting worse.
Bunch of sycophantic idiots, on every sport. Incredible.

An interview for a job as a BBC employee.....

'Have you got a degree in journalism?'

'No'.

'Have you got any journalism experience?'

'No'.

'Are you a fan of people such as Matt Dawson, Lineker, Tuffers, Mark Bright, Spoony, and Mark Lawrenson?'

'Yes'.

'I'm pleased to say you've got the job'.

I'll refrain from making a comment about the BBC's current troubles, but I recall there was an incident a few years ago when some chap turned up for a job interview but ended up being grilled on live TV (he was mistaken for an expert guest brought on to discuss a certain news item).

He didn't get the job in the end.

The job interview was for a cleaner if I remember correctly! He was then grilled on some foreign policy! In fairness he played along brilliantly!

[Doon the Water]

But Jas.....that would mean tax exiles like the SNP supporting ShurShawn would be able to vote.
Anyone on the electrol roll in Scotland over the age of 15 fits well with me.

The two main questions that Soapy is avoiding are ....what happens in Europe and what happens with Trident?
I see that they have committed to NATO that sits well with me.
I would want Trident out and Europe in if I was even going to consider voting.

[super_realist]

Fortunately Salmond cannot insist on everyone being Scottish voting. As long as you live in Scotland, are on the electoral register than you can vote.

I think we'll garner a level of intelligence of the Scots (or lack of) if Salmond gets his evil bigoted way.

So instead of being run by a bunch of fannies in Westminster, it will be run by a bunch of fannies (and one poisoned dwarf with a legoman haircut and one very lonely braincell) in Edinburgh, except they have no financial plan or source of income. Brilliant plan SNP, run by halfwits, for halfwits with a small man syndrome and a big anti english chip on their fat dole sponging shoulders.

[1GrumpyGolfer]

Don't hold back SR, say what you mean

[Diggers]

But Jas.....that would mean tax exiles like the SNP supporting ShurShawn would be able to vote.
Anyone on the electrol roll in Scotland over the age of 15 fits well with me.

The two main questions that Soapy is avoiding are ....what happens in Europe and what happens with Trident?
I see that they have committed to NATO that sits well with me.
I would want Trident out and Europe in if I was even going to consider voting.

NATO won't be interested without Trident, NATO want Trident so Scotland potentially rejecting it is not a god fit. Doesn't work.

[gaelgowfer]

I don't think non-domiciled scots should get a vote. Why should they if they're not here contributing to the scottish economy?

JC raised an interesting point though. Not only english folk but our immigration levels must have grown quite a bit in the last forty of fifty years. Can't see either of those groups voting for independence.

Of course they contribute Gael, they pay UK taxes and the UK exchequer subsidises the Scottish economy.On a more direct level I spend plenty of my English earned Sterling each time I come up home to touch base.
Contribution is a small aspect of it though. I currently have a UK passport and I was born in Largs. I'm happy with my UK passport as well as happy being Scottish, I'd like to keep it that way and I'd like a say in being able to keep it that way. I may well (infact more a probability than a possibility) move back up hame when I stop working (dont worry i wont be a drain on the pension system) I don't want to be having to reapply for citizenship.

Take off your Barnet JAS and don't even try to go there! We both know that, in regard to the question of who subsidises whom, it's all open to interpretation.

I don't want independence either on the basis that I don't want Scotland to be sucked into what will likely end up being a federalised Europe. Better the de'il y'know.

No point in getting all dewy-eyed with me over this subject. If you really care about Scotland's future, then get back here and register as a voter. Why should we, who are domiciled in Scotland, go to the additional expense of seeking out people (like you) who've chosen to make their living outside of Scotland?

[super_realist]

Why would Scotland have to seek expat out people out? Surely if they wanted to vote they should do so themselves?

Anyway, why should Scottish people who live outside of Scotland even get a vote? It's a bit West Lothian isn't it? You shouldn't have any right to vote on Scottish matters if you don't even live there.

[Diggers]

Anyway, why should Scottish people who live outside of Scotland even get a vote? It's a bit West Lothian isn't it? You shouldn't have any right to vote on Scottish matters if you don't even live there.

And yet of course we already have a similar scenario where currently Scottish MPs vote in London but Scotland also makes its own rule in the Scottish parliament . Makes you wonder why they'd want to change with such a good deal already in place.

[navyblueshorts]

Fortunately Salmond cannot insist on everyone being Scottish voting. As long as you live in Scotland, are on the electoral register than you can vote.

I think we'll garner a level of intelligence of the Scots (or lack of) if Salmond gets his evil bigoted way.

So instead of being run by a bunch of fannies in Westminster, it will be run by a bunch of fannies (and one poisoned dwarf with a legoman haircut and one very lonely braincell) in Edinburgh, except they have no financial plan or source of income. Brilliant plan SNP, run by halfwits, for halfwits with a small man syndrome and a big anti english chip on their fat dole sponging shoulders.

"by the halfwits, of the halfwits, for the halfwits"?

[JAS]

I don't think non-domiciled scots should get a vote. Why should they if they're not here contributing to the scottish economy?

JC raised an interesting point though. Not only english folk but our immigration levels must have grown quite a bit in the last forty of fifty years. Can't see either of those groups voting for independence.

Of course they contribute Gael, they pay UK taxes and the UK exchequer subsidises the Scottish economy.On a more direct level I spend plenty of my English earned Sterling each time I come up home to touch base.
Contribution is a small aspect of it though. I currently have a UK passport and I was born in Largs. I'm happy with my UK passport as well as happy being Scottish, I'd like to keep it that way and I'd like a say in being able to keep it that way. I may well (infact more a probability than a possibility) move back up hame when I stop working (dont worry i wont be a drain on the pension system) I don't want to be having to reapply for citizenship.

Take off your Barnet JAS and don't even try to go there! We both know that, in regard to the question of who subsidises whom, it's all open to interpretation.

I don't want independence either on the basis that I don't want Scotland to be sucked into what will likely end up being a federalised Europe. Better the de'il y'know.

No point in getting all dewy-eyed with me over this subject. If you really care about Scotland's future, then get back here and register as a voter. Why should we, who are domiciled in Scotland, go to the additional expense of seeking out people (like you) who've chosen to make their living outside of Scotland?

I suppose I'm just going to have to trust that enough of you will remember the 1980's anti-drug message... Just say NO!!

This is not a vote on economic policy Gael it is a simple yes/no question on nationhood. Non doms and Doms for that matter aren't going to be asked any funding or spending policy. The question is about nationhood and I'm a Scot, I was born in Ayrshire and lived there until I was 25 and will probably end up going back there. On a question that could potentially affect the validity of my passport I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a vote.

[super_realist]

As long as you vote no you can have a vote.

[oldparwin]

Being a scot who has resided south of the border for over 30+ years, I think it's for all those who reside in Scotland to decide, but what I object to is 16 and 17 year olds having a vote on it. If its decided by parliament that we change the voting age, then that's ok but who gives Salmond the right to change laws, not sanctioned by parliament to let under 18s vote.
Cameron has sucked up Salmonds backside, to try and convince the rest of the UK that Salmond has not got his own way but we all know that Salmond has wound Cameron round his little finger.

[gaelgowfer]

"This is not a vote on economic policy Gael it is a simple yes/no question on nationhood."

That's exactly what it is JAS.

Besides which, there are more than enough 'furriners' up here who'll make sure Scotland doesn't go down the independence route especially if Cameron continues to put the boot into yon extortionate Burgeoning Brussels Behemoth!

[super_realist]

Salmond only wants the young uns to vote because they are easier to brainwash. Hopefully the commonwealth games will be a disaster for him and reflect badly on his plastic party. Guaranteed the idiot will be bringing up Bannockburn and playing Braveheart on TV to whip up anti English hysteria.

Gael, do you use that dreadful parochial teuchter language in polite society? It sounds like Trawlerman.

[Diggers]

Being a scot who has resided south of the border for over 30+ years, I think it's for all those who reside in Scotland to decide, but what I object to is 16 and 17 year olds having a vote on it. If its decided by parliament that we change the voting age, then that's ok but who gives Salmond the right to change laws, not sanctioned by parliament to let under 18s vote.
Cameron has sucked up Salmonds backside, to try and convince the rest of the UK that Salmond has not got his own way but we all know that Salmond has wound Cameron round his little finger.

I can't stand Cameron but the concencus down here and this is from all sides, and I believe even the SNP feel this, is that Cameron won this hands down. All he cared about was that it was yes or no, Salmond would have loved a super devo option and he didn't get it. The lower voting age is a small concession.

[gaelgowfer]

Diggers ... re the lower voting age thing, I think that's even backfired on wee eck. A recent poll indicated they don't want independence either!

[gaelgowfer]

Gael, do you use that dreadful parochial teuchter language in polite society? It sounds like Trawlerman.

What are you wittering on about now ... laddie?

[super_realist]

"yon" "furriner".

It looks silly.

[JAS]

"This is not a vote on economic policy Gael it is a simple yes/no question on nationhood."

That's exactly what it is JAS.

Besides which, there are more than enough 'furriners' up here who'll make sure Scotland doesn't go down the independence route especially if Cameron continues to put the boot into yon extortionate Burgeoning Brussels Behemoth!

No Gael , it's not. After the independence vote, if heaven forbid it goes the wrong way, there would then be a Scottish general election and each party would set out its manifesto. That's the vote where you would pick which particular route you wanted to take the fledging Scottish economy to the wall with. I would not expect or want such a vote in that particular hypothetical case.

I can see where you're trying to come from as the independence vote would trigger a huge economic change if it went the wrong way but it would not in itself change policy. I'll reiterate the point again, the vote is a simple yes/no question on Nationhood, I have a UK passport and was born is Scotland, i am Scottish and this question is about Scotland and its future relationship with the UK. I would feel greatly disenfranchised to not get a vote.

[JAS]

Just looked out the window and its a day for woolly hats, mitts and handwarmers, starting of with a good old windscreen scrape...yuk, winters here

[super_realist]

I see where you are coming from on the vote JAS, and I'm not in anyway agreeing with the beligerant and pious Gael, but its a bit like asking for a say in what the new occupants do with the house you sold them on the off chance that you might move back there one day.

You've left the country, why should you get a say anymore. It's a bit like Scottish mps voting on English matters don't you think? Not really relevant to them.

I once bought a box of titleist balls, drank a pint if Guinness and ate a potato. Should I get a vote on whether Mcilroy moves to Nike?

[Diggers]

I kind of agree it has to be residency. I grew up in the north east but wouldn't expect to have any sort of vote on how the area is ran these days.

[super_realist]

Take note. Diggers and I in agreement.

When the independence vote fails I can't wait to see the look on necrophiliac Salmonds face providing the lurpak in his veins hasn't solidified.

[gaelgowfer]

"This is not a vote on economic policy Gael it is a simple yes/no question on nationhood."

That's exactly what it is JAS.

Besides which, there are more than enough 'furriners' up here who'll make sure Scotland doesn't go down the independence route especially if Cameron continues to put the boot into yon extortionate Burgeoning Brussels Behemoth!

No Gael , it's not. After the independence vote, if heaven forbid it goes the wrong way, there would then be a Scottish general election and each party would set out its manifesto. That's the vote where you would pick which particular route you wanted to take the fledging Scottish economy to the wall with. I would not expect or want such a vote in that particular hypothetical case.

I can see where you're trying to come from as the independence vote would trigger a huge economic change if it went the wrong way but it would not in itself change policy. I'll reiterate the point again, the vote is a simple yes/no question on Nationhood, I have a UK passport and was born is Scotland, i am Scottish and this question is about Scotland and its future relationship with the UK. I would feel greatly disenfranchised to not get a vote.

Sorry JAS, perhaps I should have qualified why I said it was based on the economy. If you remember, my primary reason for voting against independence is based on m'ship of the eu whether it be sooner or later ... much much later if Spain gets it's way!

Let's suppose for the sake of argument Scotland voted for independence and the eu invited us in immediately. What then? How much is it going to cost Scotland to be a member? Whatever it is, I venture it won't be cheap! Not that that will make any difference to scots living outside of Scotland; they won't be paying for it! Surely, therefore, the only people who should have a vote are the ones who will be footing that bill?

Of course, a lot of water still has to pass under the independence bridge and who can really say which way Scotland will go but, I think it's fair to say Salmond has lost all credibility over this latest debacle by claiming that Scotland will walk straight into the eu when he hadn't even taken legal advice. Worse than that, he had led us all to believe he had. Indeed, his connivance may well prove to be a watershed moment for the whole issue of independence.

[super_realist]

I think the question Gael would be whether the EU would permit another leperous state like Scotland to begin suckling on the EU nipple. Do they really want a small Spain, Greece, Italy or Ireland?

Scotlands welfare and healthcare bill is astronomical.

[drive4show]

Hi everyone

just thought I would drop in and say hello, same old faces stick bickering with each other, keep up the good work y'all

[barragan]

Hi drive - how're the orka's treating you?

[Doon the Water]

What never comes up in the economic arguments is the 'London weighting' and the vasts amount of money that the government pays in housing benefit to SE England. This causes a totally false housing economy in the richest part of the UK propped up by the poorer regions.

How many years did it take before the fuel subsidy to the Highlands and islands was approved ? A much fairer subsidy than paying loads of cash to couples earning over £30k living in £250k houses.

[oldshanker]

Hi everyone

just thought I would drop in and say hello, same old faces stick bickering with each other, keep up the good work y'all

Thought you'd dropped off the planet D4S, or found something better to do!

[kwinigolfer]

d4s,
If you're in Myrtle Beach, just talk to us about this hurricane . . . . .

Good to hear from you sir

[George1507]

Right now, Scotland is a net contributor to, rather than a beneficiary of government spending. As such, I'd say Alex Salmond is exactly right. Scotland would be welcomed in the EU.

Personally, I wonder if EU membership is the right way for Scotland to go - I'm pretty sure that if there was a UK referendum on this in a month, we'd be out.

[Doon the Water]

Scotland have always had a more European attitude than England.
Historical trading links to Scandinavia, The Low Countries and Russia being good examples.
Nobody seems to know where an independant Scotland would stand re. EU membership. I would assume that they have a right to full membership. To re-apply for membership seems pretty churlish.
If there was a UK referendum and England voted to come out whilst Scotland voted to stay in would hardly seem democratic.

[super_realist]

Ive never seen any facts to support it, and even if it might be true it doesnt mean they always have been.
I'd say it was a knife edge economy with an aging population, benefit dependent culture with crippling nhs costs that could ruin such an precariously balanced economy.

I'm also sick of salmond saying Scotland could be like Norway. Bollox. It's a completely different country who have had their house in order for decades.

Independence is for idiots.

[mystiroakey]

"I would assume that they have a right to full membership. To re-apply for membership seems pretty churlish."

well they cant be blacked balled by any member- forget the whole of europe think about spain!

whats next a catelan independance!!

[gaelgowfer]

I think Salmond's banking on the fact that Scotland was once an independent nation (Declaration of Arbroath 1320). This changed of course with the Acts of Union in 1707 when James VI of Scotland inherited the english throne and became James I of England. Well, it would have been a bit daft having one king presiding over two separate countries now wouldn't it?

I think Salmond's argument is that, should Scotland decide to become an independent nation again then all treaties made during the time of the union would automatically still apply to both countries and not just England.

Such a pity the shifty wee blighter didn't 'do the legals' on this before committing us to a bleedin' referendum but then, perhaps that was the idea.

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