Irish Autumn Squad-BOD AND BEST OUT!

First topic message reminder :

So Kidney announces his squad today, a 32 man panel against the boks and pumas. More players come into consideration for the Fiji game.

A 31 man Ireland squad including four uncapped players has been named by Ireland Coach Declan Kidney for the 2012 Guinness Series games against South Africa, Fiji and Argentina.

Centre Luke Marshall and forward Iain Henderson named in the panel and who were involved in the Ireland training camp in September are included in the squad as are prop David Kilcoyne and hooker Richardt Strauss, who is now eligible to play for Ireland based on his residency for the past three years.
In addition to the naming of the Ireland squad for the 2012 Guinness Series, there were also changes announced to the makeup of the national coaching staff with current Munster Assistant Coach and former international Anthony Foley joining the Ireland coaching team.

Foley will be now be leading the defence plans and systems allowing Assistant Coach Les Kiss to lead the attack shape for the team as well as continue to coach the backline. Foley will remain working with Munster Rugby outside of the international window. It was also confirmed that Leinster scrum coach, Greg Feek will continue providing his expertise to the Ireland team during competition time.

Commenting on the Guinness Series games and the addition of Anthony Foley, Ireland Coach Declan Kidney said: "We have three incredibly competitive games ahead of us in November and while there have been quite a few injuries and niggles in the early part of the season, it has opened up opportunities for other players to step into the squad. There are world ranking points on offer, so the underlying challenge for us is to work towards retaining and improving our ranking position ahead of the Rugby World Cup pool draw. While that is the end goal, our focus will be getting our preparations right to match the intensity of international games.

"I'm pleased that Anthony has taken up the offer of working with the squad to assist during this vital period in November. His previous experience of working with the team during the last RBS 6 Nations championship was important, but his own abilities and experience were central to bringing him onboard. I would like to thank Rob Penney and Joe Schmidt for being so positive and giving Anthony Foley and Greg (Feek) the scope to be part of the plans that we have."

Anthony Foley said: "I was delighted when Declan approached Rob and me about the possibility of working with the Ireland team again. I enjoyed the opportunity I got during the Six Nations working with the players and I felt once we were all comfortable with the balance between Munster and Ireland, I jumped at the chance. I certainly feel I can contribute positively and when you get the chance to coach with your country, you don't want to pass it up.

Ticket sales have reached over 46,000 for the South Africa game with only a limited number of categories available for purchase from IrishRugby.ie and www.ticketmaster.ie

While the Argentina game is a full month away, ticket sales are at just over 37,000 tickets and are selling quickly and have already surpassed the attendance the last time Argentina visited the Aviva.

Heaslip is nowhere near his form for 08/09/10. He was excellent back then, the next big thing when it came to No.8 in world rugby. He is now a shadow of that. His form is stacatto at best and he drifts in and out of games. Tends to hide a lot if its not going his way. He is certainly not prominent in games and the work of others hides a multitude of sins.

He sure as hell aint no Parisse or Picamoles and even the most ordinary No.8 ever to wear an All Black shirt (Read) is streets ahead of him.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Is Henderson good enough to displace Ferris, Henry, Heaslip or POM though?

I would doubt it I have to say.

I was very disappointed that Smal thinks of him as a 6 and not a lock. That really rubbed me up the wrong way, he has looked good at 6 but he was a monster at lock in the JWC.

There's an article in the Times now saying that Bent has a chance of getting called up!?!?!?!

This sh!t is crazy!

For the autumn internationals?That's got to be just paper talk,hasn't it?

Bent has already been on the phone to Feek and is being encouraged to come over ASAP apparently.

red_stag wrote:We need to stop getting hung up on the future. Now and again there is an exception to the rule - i.e. tighthead situation but by and large if you just always pick your best team and best squad you'll be fine.

Well no I disagree with that but its really beyond the scope of this thread to elaborate why so we'll leave it at that .

I just want emphasis though that I am not hung up about the future, I was making a specific point about it that is all. You do need to balance short term objectives with longer term planning though.

Short term backrow options are fairly good, longer term we can't get complacent because a few of our best current options are creeping towards the big Three-oh and another has no cartlidge in his knee. I'm not making a big thing of it but it is something to keep an eye on I feel.

Whats to disagree with?

If we just picked the best team we would be giving ourselves our best chance of winning games, rewarding players who are doing well for the provinces and developing an evolving team.

I do not agree with picking a new 15 every match based on "form" mind you. A lot depends on team tactics etc.

DOD wrote:Heaslip is nowhere near his form for 08/09/10. He was excellent back then, the next big thing when it came to No.8 in world rugby. He is now a shadow of that. His form is stacatto at best and he drifts in and out of games. Tends to hide a lot if its not going his way. He is certainly not prominent in games and the work of others hides a multitude of sins.

He sure as hell aint no Parisse or Picamoles and even the most ordinary No.8 ever to wear an All Black shirt (Read) is streets ahead of him.

Wow,that's some comment.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

rodders wrote:I don't think we are as well served in the backrow as some would have us believe.

Ferris and SOB are world class for sure but the formers cartlidge is ground to dust so you have to take it a game at a time with him. Heaslip isn't as poor as some are making out but isn't the player he was in 2009. O'Mahoney has come through well but isn't on par with those 3. Henry is playing out of his skin but is already 28, and Jennings 32. There's a few other guys around who can do a job but none you would say are World class.

The fact the Henderson is athletic enough to do both is a big boost for the national side.

I was doing a coaching course a few weeks ago and the lecturer said that SOB could end up the same way as Ferris to a lesser extent as he is very inflexible. Apparently that is where is injury has come from, wasn't a bang or contact just wear and tear due to not being flexible enough

I think Heaslip is playing very well at the moment, he Strauss and Jennings do so much work on the floor

He knows he needs to up his game if he wants to make the Lions Tour. He has been minding himself since the last one.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
I was doing a coaching course a few weeks ago and the lecturer said that SOB could end up the same way as Ferris to a lesser extent as he is very inflexible. Apparently that is where is injury has come from, wasn't a bang or contact just wear and tear due to not being flexible enough

Interesting Pete but I'm not too sure. Ferris has always been injury prone. He's a big bloke and even from his earlier days Ulster have been trying to keep his weight down to around 17st from around the 17'8 plus he is naturally to reduce the strain on his joints and connective tissue. The injuries are just a product of the collisions and the way he plays unfortunately.

Re SOB though I do think that players with a high proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres, and rely heavily on pace and power,like SOB and Ferris do have a shorter shelf life at the top because they tend to peak earlier and deteriorate physically quicker than those with slow twitch or even type IIa fibres.

[quote="pete (buachaill on eirne)"]

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Is Henderson good enough to displace Ferris, Henry, Heaslip or POM though?

I would doubt it I have to say.

I was very disappointed that Smal thinks of him as a 6 and not a lock. That really rubbed me up the wrong way, he has looked good at 6 but he was a monster at lock in the JWC.

There's an article in the Times now saying that Bent has a chance of getting called up!?!?!?!

This sh!t is crazy!

For the autumn internationals?That's got to be just paper talk,hasn't it?

Bent in action here in the ITM Cup last weekend against Canterbury. Crockett is the Canterbury loosehead. He does well in the first couple of scrums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ZO65kER44

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

rodders wrote:I don't think we are as well served in the backrow as some would have us believe.

Ferris and SOB are world class for sure but the formers cartlidge is ground to dust so you have to take it a game at a time with him. Heaslip isn't as poor as some are making out but isn't the player he was in 2009. O'Mahoney has come through well but isn't on par with those 3. Henry is playing out of his skin but is already 28, and Jennings 32. There's a few other guys around who can do a job but none you would say are World class.

The fact the Henderson is athletic enough to do both is a big boost for the national side.

I was doing a coaching course a few weeks ago and the lecturer said that SOB could end up the same way as Ferris to a lesser extent as he is very inflexible. Apparently that is where is injury has come from, wasn't a bang or contact just wear and tear due to not being flexible enough

I think Heaslip is playing very well at the moment, he Strauss and Jennings do so much work on the floor

He knows he needs to up his game if he wants to make the Lions Tour. He has been minding himself since the last one.

You're not suggesting Heaslip will only improve his performances this year with the chance of a free Jolly out to Aus?

rodders wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
I was doing a coaching course a few weeks ago and the lecturer said that SOB could end up the same way as Ferris to a lesser extent as he is very inflexible. Apparently that is where is injury has come from, wasn't a bang or contact just wear and tear due to not being flexible enough

Interesting Pete but I'm not too sure. Ferris has always been injury prone. He's a big bloke and even from his earlier days Ulster have been trying to keep his weight down to around 17st from around the 17'8 plus he is naturally to reduce the strain on his joints and connective tissue. The injuries are just a product of the collisions and the way he plays unfortunately.

Re SOB though I do think that players with a high proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres, and rely heavily on pace and power,like SOB and Ferris do have a shorter shelf life at the top because they tend to peak earlier and deteriorate physically quicker than those with slow twitch or even type IIa fibres.

Isn't SOB's problem a hip one? Thats what forced Leamy (& Ian Dowling) to retire. Leamy is getting a hip replacement and Dowling may already have got one. Dowing walks with a limp.

jasus. I always thought Kieran Read was a very good player :0

Most ordinarly Kiwi back rowers i saw were Reuben Thorne and Taine Randell both blind sides from what i can remember. Kiwi mates reckon Thorne was a terrible player

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

rodders wrote:I don't think we are as well served in the backrow as some would have us believe.

Ferris and SOB are world class for sure but the formers cartlidge is ground to dust so you have to take it a game at a time with him. Heaslip isn't as poor as some are making out but isn't the player he was in 2009. O'Mahoney has come through well but isn't on par with those 3. Henry is playing out of his skin but is already 28, and Jennings 32. There's a few other guys around who can do a job but none you would say are World class.

The fact the Henderson is athletic enough to do both is a big boost for the national side.

I was doing a coaching course a few weeks ago and the lecturer said that SOB could end up the same way as Ferris to a lesser extent as he is very inflexible. Apparently that is where is injury has come from, wasn't a bang or contact just wear and tear due to not being flexible enough

I think Heaslip is playing very well at the moment, he Strauss and Jennings do so much work on the floor

He knows he needs to up his game if he wants to make the Lions Tour. He has been minding himself since the last one.

You're not suggesting Heaslip will only improve his performances this year with the chance of a free Jolly out to Aus?

Only recent Irish player I've heard say that the highlight of their career was playing for the Lions (and that includes players like Woody whose only real success in rugby would have been a winning Lions series).

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

rodders wrote:I don't think we are as well served in the backrow as some would have us believe.

Ferris and SOB are world class for sure but the formers cartlidge is ground to dust so you have to take it a game at a time with him. Heaslip isn't as poor as some are making out but isn't the player he was in 2009. O'Mahoney has come through well but isn't on par with those 3. Henry is playing out of his skin but is already 28, and Jennings 32. There's a few other guys around who can do a job but none you would say are World class.

The fact the Henderson is athletic enough to do both is a big boost for the national side.

I was doing a coaching course a few weeks ago and the lecturer said that SOB could end up the same way as Ferris to a lesser extent as he is very inflexible. Apparently that is where is injury has come from, wasn't a bang or contact just wear and tear due to not being flexible enough

I think Heaslip is playing very well at the moment, he Strauss and Jennings do so much work on the floor

He knows he needs to up his game if he wants to make the Lions Tour. He has been minding himself since the last one.

You're not suggesting Heaslip will only improve his performances this year with the chance of a free Jolly out to Aus?

Only recent Irish player I've heard say that the highlight of their career was playing for the Lions (and that includes players like Woody whose only real success in rugby would have been a winning Lions series).

Brigadier General Heaslip (Retired) of Oglaigh na h'Eireann would be spinning at that..

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

rodders wrote:I don't think we are as well served in the backrow as some would have us believe.

Ferris and SOB are world class for sure but the formers cartlidge is ground to dust so you have to take it a game at a time with him. Heaslip isn't as poor as some are making out but isn't the player he was in 2009. O'Mahoney has come through well but isn't on par with those 3. Henry is playing out of his skin but is already 28, and Jennings 32. There's a few other guys around who can do a job but none you would say are World class.

The fact the Henderson is athletic enough to do both is a big boost for the national side.

I was doing a coaching course a few weeks ago and the lecturer said that SOB could end up the same way as Ferris to a lesser extent as he is very inflexible. Apparently that is where is injury has come from, wasn't a bang or contact just wear and tear due to not being flexible enough

I think Heaslip is playing very well at the moment, he Strauss and Jennings do so much work on the floor

He knows he needs to up his game if he wants to make the Lions Tour. He has been minding himself since the last one.

You're not suggesting Heaslip will only improve his performances this year with the chance of a free Jolly out to Aus?

Only recent Irish player I've heard say that the highlight of their career was playing for the Lions (and that includes players like Woody whose only real success in rugby would have been a winning Lions series).

Brigadier General Heaslip (Retired) of Oglaigh na h'Eireann would be spinning at that..

TBH, I don't think he is the sharpest tool in the shed.

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

rodders wrote:I don't think we are as well served in the backrow as some would have us believe.

Ferris and SOB are world class for sure but the formers cartlidge is ground to dust so you have to take it a game at a time with him. Heaslip isn't as poor as some are making out but isn't the player he was in 2009. O'Mahoney has come through well but isn't on par with those 3. Henry is playing out of his skin but is already 28, and Jennings 32. There's a few other guys around who can do a job but none you would say are World class.

The fact the Henderson is athletic enough to do both is a big boost for the national side.

I was doing a coaching course a few weeks ago and the lecturer said that SOB could end up the same way as Ferris to a lesser extent as he is very inflexible. Apparently that is where is injury has come from, wasn't a bang or contact just wear and tear due to not being flexible enough

I think Heaslip is playing very well at the moment, he Strauss and Jennings do so much work on the floor

He knows he needs to up his game if he wants to make the Lions Tour. He has been minding himself since the last one.

You're not suggesting Heaslip will only improve his performances this year with the chance of a free Jolly out to Aus?

Only recent Irish player I've heard say that the highlight of their career was playing for the Lions (and that includes players like Woody whose only real success in rugby would have been a winning Lions series).

Brigadier General Heaslip (Retired) of Oglaigh na h'Eireann would be spinning at that..

TBH, I don't think he is the sharpest tool in the shed.

Lol do you two want to get a room.

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

rodders wrote:I don't think we are as well served in the backrow as some would have us believe.

Ferris and SOB are world class for sure but the formers cartlidge is ground to dust so you have to take it a game at a time with him. Heaslip isn't as poor as some are making out but isn't the player he was in 2009. O'Mahoney has come through well but isn't on par with those 3. Henry is playing out of his skin but is already 28, and Jennings 32. There's a few other guys around who can do a job but none you would say are World class.

The fact the Henderson is athletic enough to do both is a big boost for the national side.

I was doing a coaching course a few weeks ago and the lecturer said that SOB could end up the same way as Ferris to a lesser extent as he is very inflexible. Apparently that is where is injury has come from, wasn't a bang or contact just wear and tear due to not being flexible enough

I think Heaslip is playing very well at the moment, he Strauss and Jennings do so much work on the floor

He knows he needs to up his game if he wants to make the Lions Tour. He has been minding himself since the last one.

You're not suggesting Heaslip will only improve his performances this year with the chance of a free Jolly out to Aus?

Only recent Irish player I've heard say that the highlight of their career was playing for the Lions (and that includes players like Woody whose only real success in rugby would have been a winning Lions series).

Brigadier General Heaslip (Retired) of Oglaigh na h'Eireann would be spinning at that..

TBH, I don't think he is the sharpest tool in the shed.

Like I said a spell on the bench and he can check his hair and twitter account while listening to the latest 1 Direction songs on his IPOD might be better for him...he can wave to the rugger huggers as well without distraction

DOD insulting his hair and Sin suggesting he's only upping his game for the Lions...

Pair of oul wans!

Spoiler:

Having watched Leinster two heineken cup games and the munster match I think Heaslip was Leinsters best player over the course of those games. POM isn't munsters first choice 8 when coughlan is fit so I'm not sure how we can seriously suggest him at 8 over Heaslip.

Similarly he hasn't played at 7 this year and is much less impressive there than henry has been. I'm not certain he could compete with ferris at 6 but the latter is injured. He should be on the bench for the AIs though and whilst I think he has dipped that is to be expected from any youngster in their 2nd full season. I expect big things from him but shifting him around isn't helping him.

Ah stand, you're forgetting one crucial thing, POM is a ligind in waiting!

I didnt insult his hair its just apparent that he spends a lot of time looking after it. Insinuating that it was 1 Direction he listened to is insulting so apologies for that. I believe he was into AC/DC or something a bit heavier when he was younger, because it does appear too much headbanging is one of the reasons he might not be the brightest tool...

Mickado wrote:Ah stand, you're forgetting one crucial thing, POM is a ligind in waiting!

Oh oh...maybe its a leinster thing and not just Jamie as you are starting to spell things incorrectly now.

Not a legend just a better player

Standulstermen wrote:Having watched Leinster two heineken cup games and the munster match I think Heaslip was Leinsters best player over the course of those games. POM isn't munsters first choice 8 when coughlan is fit so I'm not sure how we can seriously suggest him at 8 over Heaslip.

Similarly he hasn't played at 7 this year and is much less impressive there than henry has been. I'm not certain he could compete with ferris at 6 but the latter is injured. He should be on the bench for the AIs though and whilst I think he has dipped that is to be expected from any youngster in their 2nd full season. I expect big things from him but shifting him around isn't helping him.

That's not how you do this,you're supposed to make of fun of the scary faces he makes and suggest he'd prefer to play for Munster than Ireland.Sin and DOD don't understand any other type of debate.

Standulstermen wrote:Having watched Leinster two heineken cup games and the munster match I think Heaslip was Leinsters best player over the course of those games. POM isn't munsters first choice 8 when coughlan is fit so I'm not sure how we can seriously suggest him at 8 over Heaslip.

Similarly he hasn't played at 7 this year and is much less impressive there than henry has been. I'm not certain he could compete with ferris at 6 but the latter is injured. He should be on the bench for the AIs though and whilst I think he has dipped that is to be expected from any youngster in their 2nd full season. I expect big things from him but shifting him around isn't helping him.

Being serious,POM looks like he could be a very good player but he hasn't really performed in any big match he's started so far (that I've seen anyway).It's not that he's been poor just hasn't really stood out,I have no doubt he'll improve over the next couple of years but I hope he is allowed settle in one position and isn't shifted around the backrow every time there's an injury.

red_stag wrote:Whats to disagree with?

If we just picked the best team we would be giving ourselves our best chance of winning games, rewarding players who are doing well for the provinces and developing an evolving team.

I do not agree with picking a new 15 every match based on "form" mind you. A lot depends on team tactics etc.

How can you not agree with it, I haven't said it or even suggested?

rodders wrote:

red_stag wrote:Whats to disagree with?

If we just picked the best team we would be giving ourselves our best chance of winning games, rewarding players who are doing well for the provinces and developing an evolving team.

I do not agree with picking a new 15 every match based on "form" mind you. A lot depends on team tactics etc.

How can you not agree with it, I haven't said it or even suggested?

Im not saying you have. I am aware that me saying "always pick your best team" is not that far away from "always pick on form".

I am just clarifying my position not challenging you.

Fight...he is challenging you Rodders...and he has called you names.

Thats my Mexican boxing smiley face.

OK sorry no bother stag, my mistake. That topic is a can of worms anyways so lets leave it for now ....

Besides I'd rather the thread wasn't derailed from the Heaslip and POM bashing

DOD wrote:Fight...he is challenging you Rodders...and he has called you names.

Stag has friends in high places so I need to tow the line or my first 606 ban will be on the horizon....

Oh yeah...did I mention that staggy & Rav are the greatest ....

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Having watched Leinster two heineken cup games and the munster match I think Heaslip was Leinsters best player over the course of those games. POM isn't munsters first choice 8 when coughlan is fit so I'm not sure how we can seriously suggest him at 8 over Heaslip.

Similarly he hasn't played at 7 this year and is much less impressive there than henry has been. I'm not certain he could compete with ferris at 6 but the latter is injured. He should be on the bench for the AIs though and whilst I think he has dipped that is to be expected from any youngster in their 2nd full season. I expect big things from him but shifting him around isn't helping him.

Being serious,POM looks like he could be a very good player but he hasn't really performed in any big match he's started so far (that I've seen anyway).It's not that he's been poor just hasn't really stood out,I have no doubt he'll improve over the next couple of years but I hope he is allowed settle in one position and isn't shifted around the backrow every time there's an injury.

Is this in the ASLS parallel universe where that god of a rugby player Jamie Heaslip (esq) is playing superbly every game, brushing tackles aside, slamming into the opponents, winning balls at every ruck and tackle situation, scoring hat tricks in every game....but thats just a dream ASLS...in reality Jamies nightmare is that he is in a team playing against one man and the one man wins all the time plus gets motm each game....that man is Sergio Parisse

I know you hate stats ASLS as Sin é spanks you every time in an arguement but can you tell me when was the last time Jamie scored a try in any competition?

DOD wrote:
Is this in the ASLS parallel universe where that god of a rugby player Jamie Heaslip (esq) is playing superbly every game, brushing tackles aside, slamming into the opponents, winning balls at every ruck and tackle situation, scoring hat tricks in every game....but thats just a dream ASLS...in reality Jamies nightmare is that he is in a team playing against one man and the one man wins all the time plus gets motm each game....that man is Sergio Parisse

I've said Heaslip is playing well this season,that's backed up by other people who have been watching Leinster play and he was close to man of the match in his last game for Ireland so yes he's on form.If you can't acknowledge that then that's your problem.

How about addressing my point on O'Mahoney,point me to a game against top class opposition where he started and was in the top 3 players on the pitch?There may be a game or 2 like that,I haven't watched every game he has played and I'm open to having my mind changed on the subject.I expect you will instead come out with some stupid insult but I'm hoping to be surprised.

DOD wrote:I know you hate stats ASLS as Sin é spanks you every time in an arguement but can you tell me when was the last time Jamie scored a try in any competition?

I'm sure you know the answer or you wouldn't be bringing it up.

Against the Blues Last December?

When was Parisses last?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

DOD wrote:
Is this in the ASLS parallel universe where that god of a rugby player Jamie Heaslip (esq) is playing superbly every game, brushing tackles aside, slamming into the opponents, winning balls at every ruck and tackle situation, scoring hat tricks in every game....but thats just a dream ASLS...in reality Jamies nightmare is that he is in a team playing against one man and the one man wins all the time plus gets motm each game....that man is Sergio Parisse

I've said Heaslip is playing well this season,that's backed up by other people who have been watching Leinster play and he was close to man of the match in his last game for Ireland so yes he's on form.If you can't acknowledge that then that's your problem.

How about addressing my point on O'Mahoney,point me to a game against top class opposition where he started and was in the top 3 players on the pitch?There may be a game or 2 like that,I haven't watched every game he has played and I'm open to having my mind changed on the subject.I expect you will instead come out with some stupid insult but I'm hoping to be surprised.

You have made an assertion about Heaslip but its clear to me (and others) that he has been relatively ordinary this season. As for POM any HC qualifying game last season was MOTM on a few occassions, the first test against the ABs this summer. Tell you what why dont you let me know when was the last time Heaslip was good...when was he close to MOTM cant remember...are you sure its not the Grand Slam season you are talking about? Anyhow when was the last time he scored....even half decent No.8's get to score every now and then dont they?

Heaslip has looked like one of the better players for Leinster so far this season. He has a huge work rate, and has carried a lot more than last season. He is the man in possession of the 8 shirt.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Heaslip has looked like one of the better players for Leinster so far this season. He has a huge work rate, and has carried a lot more than last season. He is the man in possession of the 8 shirt.

Yes and we all know how well Leinster are playing this year....

Yes, and how does that take away from Heaslip being one of the solitary players to actually impress? You could use that argument against Parisse, who you clearly rate very highly. He stands out in a poor team.

Has Heaslip ever lost a game to Parisse?

We know how Leinster are playing 8 games into this year.

I actually agree with DOD though, Heaslip has been flattering to deceive and has had very erratic form in recent years (even from match to match.) And then there was the Twitter stuff, and then he gave it up (at least for a bit??? - does he do it again? I don't know coz I certainly don't do Twitter!)

Anyway, having said all that - I do also agree with Rory and detect a reawakening of concentration and with it an increasing influence again.
Players can have - certainly Irish ones - a few dull years and come good again.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yes, and how does that take away from Heaslip being one of the solitary players to actually impress? You could use that argument against Parisse, who you clearly rate very highly. He stands out in a poor team.

He wants to get picked for the Lions, thats why he is getting the finger out. Anyway, since when are Leinster a poor team? They maybe playing poorly, but they are not a poor team.

What has a player being on twitter got to do with anything? Zebo, ROG, Felix Jones, POC, POM (to name a few) are all on it too...

DOD i know your'e not interested in stats, but you should check out Heaslips stats for his last game against Munster, 11 tackels (none missed), POM made 3 (missed none).

heaslip is Ireland best number 8 end of

Whether he has silly hair, swans around dublin in wifebeaters, owns a pop up trendy steak restaurant, really enjoyed the lions, is beside the point.

he is not the ball carrier he was 3 years ago but is still our best option.

Mickado wrote:What has a player being on twitter got to do with anything? Zebo, ROG, Felix Jones, POC, POM (to name a few) are all on it too...

DOD i know your'e not interested in stats, but you should check out Heaslips stats for his last game against Munster, 11 tackels (none missed), POM made 3 (missed none).

Bet he can tie his own shoelaces as well

Mickado wrote:What has a player being on twitter got to do with anything? Zebo, ROG, Felix Jones, POC, POM (to name a few) are all on it too...
DOD i know your'e not interested in stats, but you should check out Heaslips stats for his last game against Munster, 11 tackels (none missed), POM made 3 (missed none).

It has nothing to do with anything Mickado,.... unless it has everything to do with lots of things. Point is he gave it up for a time, it was public knowledge...around about the same time he was allowing himself to get rankled by the Shyte that gets thrown on these social interaction sites.

So you're right - it has nothing to do with anything unless the player himself feels it's a pressure. He did - or someone in camp Leinster did.

I only remember history - I don't write it.

PS - and just because I mentioned that I've been a little critical of Heaslip doesn't make me a Munster zealot!... so the Zebo, ROG, Felix, POC and POM selection wasn't needed

DOD wrote:

Mickado wrote:What has a player being on twitter got to do with anything? Zebo, ROG, Felix Jones, POC, POM (to name a few) are all on it too...

DOD i know your'e not interested in stats, but you should check out Heaslips stats for his last game against Munster, 11 tackels (none missed), POM made 3 (missed none).

Bet he can tie his own shoelaces as well

Well he'll have to because Paddy Wallace isn't in the squad...

Fly, you didn't even bring up twitter in the first place. DOD did, i was just mentioning them because they're Munster players on twitter, i've already said there's no problem with a player being on twitter so I'm clearly not having a dig at them.

Every player is open to critisism, but some people on here clearly hold a grudge against Leinster players.

DOD wrote:

You have made an assertion about Heaslip but its clear to me (and others) that he has been relatively ordinary this season. As for POM any HC qualifying game last season was MOTM on a few occassions, the first test against the ABs this summer. Tell you what why dont you let me know when was the last time Heaslip was good...when was he close to MOTM cant remember...are you sure its not the Grand Slam season you are talking about? Anyhow when was the last time he scored....even half decent No.8's get to score every now and then dont they?

Heaslip was class in the 2nd Test against NZ and has been very good this year.

POM was playing 6 in the first Test in NZ and he wasn't in the top 3 on the Irish team never mind the pitch.My main memory of that game is POM falling off a tackle straight from a scrum.Also what top class opposition were Munster up against in HC qualifying last season?

Mickado wrote:Fly, you didn't even bring up twitter in the first place. DOD did, i was just mentioning them because they're Munster players on twitter, i've already said there's no problem with a player being on twitter so I'm clearly not having a dig at them.

Every player is open to critisism, but some people on here clearly hold a grudge against Leinster players.

Oh jebus wept Mickado....I only mentioned Twitter out of the top my head (had forgotten the other stuff about that).

Mickado wrote:

Every player is open to critisism, but some people on here clearly hold a grudge against Leinster players.

Well, that's no secret for sure. Sorry for misconstruing your post though.