Irish Autumn Squad-BOD AND BEST OUT!

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 24 Oct 2012, 10:38 am

First topic message reminder :

So Kidney announces his squad today, a 32 man panel against the boks and pumas. More players come into consideration for the Fiji game.

A 31 man Ireland squad including four uncapped players has been named by Ireland Coach Declan Kidney for the 2012 Guinness Series games against South Africa, Fiji and Argentina.

Centre Luke Marshall and forward Iain Henderson named in the panel and who were involved in the Ireland training camp in September are included in the squad as are prop David Kilcoyne and hooker Richardt Strauss, who is now eligible to play for Ireland based on his residency for the past three years.
In addition to the naming of the Ireland squad for the 2012 Guinness Series, there were also changes announced to the makeup of the national coaching staff with current Munster Assistant Coach and former international Anthony Foley joining the Ireland coaching team.

Foley will be now be leading the defence plans and systems allowing Assistant Coach Les Kiss to lead the attack shape for the team as well as continue to coach the backline. Foley will remain working with Munster Rugby outside of the international window. It was also confirmed that Leinster scrum coach, Greg Feek will continue providing his expertise to the Ireland team during competition time.

Commenting on the Guinness Series games and the addition of Anthony Foley, Ireland Coach Declan Kidney said: "We have three incredibly competitive games ahead of us in November and while there have been quite a few injuries and niggles in the early part of the season, it has opened up opportunities for other players to step into the squad. There are world ranking points on offer, so the underlying challenge for us is to work towards retaining and improving our ranking position ahead of the Rugby World Cup pool draw. While that is the end goal, our focus will be getting our preparations right to match the intensity of international games.

"I'm pleased that Anthony has taken up the offer of working with the squad to assist during this vital period in November. His previous experience of working with the team during the last RBS 6 Nations championship was important, but his own abilities and experience were central to bringing him onboard. I would like to thank Rob Penney and Joe Schmidt for being so positive and giving Anthony Foley and Greg (Feek) the scope to be part of the plans that we have."

Anthony Foley said: "I was delighted when Declan approached Rob and me about the possibility of working with the Ireland team again. I enjoyed the opportunity I got during the Six Nations working with the players and I felt once we were all comfortable with the balance between Munster and Ireland, I jumped at the chance. I certainly feel I can contribute positively and when you get the chance to coach with your country, you don't want to pass it up.

Ticket sales have reached over 46,000 for the South Africa game with only a limited number of categories available for purchase from IrishRugby.ie and www.ticketmaster.ie

While the Argentina game is a full month away, ticket sales are at just over 37,000 tickets and are selling quickly and have already surpassed the attendance the last time Argentina visited the Aviva.

Irish Rugby Squad (Guinness Series 2012)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/62)
Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/49)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/3)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster/29)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/69)
Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster/32)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster/35)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/33)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster/50)
Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster)*
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/2)
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)*
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht/3)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/12)
Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/4)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster/14)
Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/5)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/88)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster/85)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/120) Captain
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/124
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/7)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/45)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/22)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/21)
Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/32)
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster/48)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster/5)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/1)

Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/21 caps)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Paul Marshall (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) *
Tiernan O'Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht) *
Michael Bent (Leinster) *
Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/2)

N.B. *denotes uncapped player

O'DRISCOLL and BEST out.

by ME-109 Fri 26 Oct 2012, 2:12 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
DOD wrote:

You have made an assertion about Heaslip but its clear to me (and others) that he has been relatively ordinary this season. As for POM any HC qualifying game last season was MOTM on a few occassions, the first test against the ABs this summer. Tell you what why dont you let me know when was the last time Heaslip was good...when was he close to MOTM cant remember...are you sure its not the Grand Slam season you are talking about? Anyhow when was the last time he scored....even half decent No.8's get to score every now and then dont they?

Heaslip was class in the 2nd Test against NZ and has been very good this year.

POM was playing 6 in the first Test in NZ and he wasn't in the top 3 on the Irish team never mind the pitch.My main memory of that game is POM falling off a tackle straight from a scrum.Also what top class opposition were Munster up against in HC qualifying last season?

Well he played for 60 mins in the first test didnt miss any tackles according to the stats, carried the same amount and tackled about the same as heaslip relatively speaking, won a couple of lineouts and didnt turn over the ball which heaslip did.

In the second test he came on for the last 20 carried twice as much ball as heaslip did in the relative period as well as made a great break leading up to either the penalty that brought us level or the scrum where Nigel chickened out.

by ME-109 Fri 26 Oct 2012, 2:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Mickado wrote:

Every player is open to critisism, but some people on here clearly hold a grudge against Leinster players.

Well, that's no secret for sure. Sorry for misconstruing your post though.

those big bad munster supporters hold a gwudge against widdle jamie and the other leinster players. I've heard it all now..
laughing

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 2:20 pm

Mickado wrote:What has a player being on twitter got to do with anything? Zebo, ROG, Felix Jones, POC, POM (to name a few) are all on it too...

DOD i know your'e not interested in stats, but you should check out Heaslips stats for his last game against Munster, 11 tackels (none missed), POM made 3 (missed none).

For sure, I can't see him taking on Jerry Flannery on the twitter machine! (By the way, none of those mentioned above are foolish enough to get into fights with the public on twitter).

by SecretFly Fri 26 Oct 2012, 2:21 pm

Oh I do ever so like it when DOD laughs and smiles...takes the eternal frown weight off his nose

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 2:59 pm

DOD wrote:

Well he played for 60 mins in the first test didnt miss any tackles according to the stats, carried the same amount and tackled about the same as heaslip relatively speaking, won a couple of lineouts and didnt turn over the ball which heaslip did.

In the second test he came on for the last 20 carried twice as much ball as heaslip did in the relative period as well as made a great break leading up to either the penalty that brought us level or the scrum where Nigel chickened out.

Maybe try watching the rugby instead of reading a site that has a track record of getting the stats wrong,why has POM never outshone Heaslip in a Leinster/Munster match?

POM isn't up to it at the top level yet,he looks good against weaker teams but can't step up to the very top level.The worst thing about this is I now sound like I don't rate him,I think he's a really promising player and will go on to win plenty of Ireland caps but he's the 2nd best backrower in maybe 2 positions and 3rd or 4th as a no.7

by ME-109 Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:05 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
DOD wrote:

Well he played for 60 mins in the first test didnt miss any tackles according to the stats, carried the same amount and tackled about the same as heaslip relatively speaking, won a couple of lineouts and didnt turn over the ball which heaslip did.

In the second test he came on for the last 20 carried twice as much ball as heaslip did in the relative period as well as made a great break leading up to either the penalty that brought us level or the scrum where Nigel chickened out.

Maybe try watching the rugby instead of reading a site that has a track record of getting the stats wrong,why has POM never outshone Heaslip in a Leinster/Munster match?

POM isn't up to it at the top level yet,he looks good against weaker teams but can't step up to the very top level.The worst thing about this is I now sound like I don't rate him,I think he's a really promising player and will go on to win plenty of Ireland caps but he's the 2nd best backrower in maybe 2 positions and 3rd or 4th as a no.7

I did watch the games and remember POM being very good specifically in the second test when he got us going forward (something we had been missing all game). Anyhow luckily more informed pundits than you have a different view on POM and he is destined for a long career both at Munster and Ireland and will captain Ireland very soon. As for Heaslip he is a good player who has gone backwards and has not revisited his form of a few years back in either a blue or green shirt. Like Sexton he is now a limitation to the side in terms of the fact that he is not developing as a player he is past his peak and former glories arent about to return. Time to move him on...

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:07 pm

DOD wrote:
I did watch the games and remember POM being very good specifically in the second test when he got us going forward (something we had been missing all game). Anyhow luckily more informed pundits than you have a different view on POM and he is destined for a long career both at Munster and Ireland and will captain Ireland very soon. As for Heaslip he is a good player who has gone backwards and has not revisited his form of a few years back in either a blue or green shirt. Like Sexton he is now a limitation to the side in terms of the fact that he is not developing as a player he is past his peak and former glories arent about to return. Time to move him on...

You're having a laugh with that one but I'm glad to hear more informed pundits agree with me that he is destined for a long career with Munster and Ireland,did you miss that I had already said that?

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:09 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
DOD wrote:

Well he played for 60 mins in the first test didnt miss any tackles according to the stats, carried the same amount and tackled about the same as heaslip relatively speaking, won a couple of lineouts and didnt turn over the ball which heaslip did.

In the second test he came on for the last 20 carried twice as much ball as heaslip did in the relative period as well as made a great break leading up to either the penalty that brought us level or the scrum where Nigel chickened out.

Maybe try watching the rugby instead of reading a site that has a track record of getting the stats wrong,why has POM never outshone Heaslip in a Leinster/Munster match?

Because he has only once ever played at 8 against Leinster (at home recently) in his first start of the season having being playing 7 or 6 all of last season?

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:10 pm

If POM starts at 7 for any of these matches, ill go insane!

by ME-109 Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:13 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
DOD wrote:
I did watch the games and remember POM being very good specifically in the second test when he got us going forward (something we had been missing all game). Anyhow luckily more informed pundits than you have a different view on POM and he is destined for a long career both at Munster and Ireland and will captain Ireland very soon. As for Heaslip he is a good player who has gone backwards and has not revisited his form of a few years back in either a blue or green shirt. Like Sexton he is now a limitation to the side in terms of the fact that he is not developing as a player he is past his peak and former glories arent about to return. Time to move him on...

You're having a laugh with that one but I'm glad to hear more informed pundits agree with me that he is destined for a long career with Munster and Ireland,did you miss that I had already said that?

Er....no...dont usually read your posts ASLS... Laugh

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:13 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:If POM starts at 7 for any of these matches, ill go insane!

I don't know why you are all getting so excited about POM playing 7 this weekend. You should be more worried if Henry was playing 6 or 8 for Ulster.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:16 pm

Sin é wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
DOD wrote:

Well he played for 60 mins in the first test didnt miss any tackles according to the stats, carried the same amount and tackled about the same as heaslip relatively speaking, won a couple of lineouts and didnt turn over the ball which heaslip did.

In the second test he came on for the last 20 carried twice as much ball as heaslip did in the relative period as well as made a great break leading up to either the penalty that brought us level or the scrum where Nigel chickened out.

Maybe try watching the rugby instead of reading a site that has a track record of getting the stats wrong,why has POM never outshone Heaslip in a Leinster/Munster match?

Because he has only once ever played at 8 against Leinster (at home recently) in his first start of the season having being playing 7 or 6 all of last season?

So only games where he played at 8 count now?You were using stats from games where he played at 6 before,don't hurt your back moving those goalposts. laughing

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:17 pm

Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:If POM starts at 7 for any of these matches, ill go insane!

I don't know why you are all getting so excited about POM playing 7 this weekend. You should be more worried if Henry was playing 6 or 8 for Ulster.

I didnt know POM was playing 7 this weekend. I just have a feeling kidney will be stupid enough to start him in the 7 position.

by ME-109 Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:22 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:If POM starts at 7 for any of these matches, ill go insane!

I don't know why you are all getting so excited about POM playing 7 this weekend. You should be more worried if Henry was playing 6 or 8 for Ulster.

I didnt know POM was playing 7 this weekend. I just have a feeling kidney will be stupid enough to start him in the 7 position.

Played most of his young rugby at 7 is an excellent backrow forward in general and one of the best in Ireland over the last 12 months, turns over the ball consistently and is a good ball carrying forward. hmmm sounds stupid to me...

by ME-109 Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:23 pm

I'd be more worried that he thinks Sexton is an intl level outhalf...

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:25 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yes, and how does that take away from Heaslip being one of the solitary players to actually impress? You could use that argument against Parisse, who you clearly rate very highly. He stands out in a poor team.

He wants to get picked for the Lions, thats why he is getting the finger out. Anyway, since when are Leinster a poor team? They maybe playing poorly, but they are not a poor team.

I was clearly referring to Parisse and Italy with that comment. Whistle

by red_stag Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:28 pm

I've no problem with Chris Henry stepping in at #7.

To be honest these Ulster lads are only plugging a hole until Munsters transition is finished. Take out the foreigners, take out the club level servants of Ulster like Tuohy, Henry, Wallace etc and your left with Tommy Bowe, Rory Best and Stephen Ferris.

All three of them are serious talents but outside of that its just a case of patching up team Ireland, shouting at Uncle Deccie and waiting for Munster to rise again.

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:30 pm

DOD wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:If POM starts at 7 for any of these matches, ill go insane!

I don't know why you are all getting so excited about POM playing 7 this weekend. You should be more worried if Henry was playing 6 or 8 for Ulster.

I didnt know POM was playing 7 this weekend. I just have a feeling kidney will be stupid enough to start him in the 7 position.

Played most of his young rugby at 7 is an excellent backrow forward in general and one of the best in Ireland over the last 12 months, turns over the ball consistently and is a good ball carrying forward. hmmm sounds stupid to me...

If he starts at 7 with jenno not even in the squad, that would be very stupid. Jenno is so under rated in this country. Been one of leinster's best players in the last 2 seasons.

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:32 pm

DOD wrote:I'd be more worried that he thinks Sexton is an intl level outhalf...

Anyone read the interview with Sexton in last weekend's Irish Times. Trouble in paradise (the new Leinster training centre funded by an exile who is named for making corrupt payments in the Moriarty Tribunal)!

Sexton has a bit of a “rep” for being, how shall we put this, a little argumentative, notably with team-mates. As usual when you meet such a good-humoured, intelligent lad, you wonder how this could be so. At Riverview, he holds the door open for anybody within walking distance, politely orders his club sandwich, and nibbles on it while letting it go cold. But on the pitch or at training, he’s different.

“Well, I probably do argue, but it’s my job. I have to know what Joe wants most of all. I’m the guy on the pitch who decides which move we pull out at which time. Obviously messages come on but I have to try to organise, and sometimes that ends in arguments. I don’t like it. I end up going home thinking ‘I had an argument with him’ and I regret it. And I lose sleep over it. But it’s work and I don’t really argue with people away from rugby; I would be quite different away from rugby.

“There’s a bit of a switch that goes off,” he admits with a wry chuckle. “Even in training, I lose it a bit. It’s something I’m trying to control a bit, to be honest with you. I do agree that I probably have to temper it a little bit in terms of the way I do it. I’ve had some discussions with other players about how I go about that. Not everyone is perfect and sometimes I get my point across in the wrong way at times, but I think I’m getting better at it, with age.”

by red_stag Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:32 pm

Jennings is a bit like John Hayes. We are all sick of hearing how "under rated" he is.

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:33 pm

red_stag wrote:Jennings is a bit like John Hayes. We are all sick of hearing how "under rated" he is.

Ive only ever heard about how over rated hayes was tbh...

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:36 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sin é wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
DOD wrote:

Well he played for 60 mins in the first test didnt miss any tackles according to the stats, carried the same amount and tackled about the same as heaslip relatively speaking, won a couple of lineouts and didnt turn over the ball which heaslip did.

In the second test he came on for the last 20 carried twice as much ball as heaslip did in the relative period as well as made a great break leading up to either the penalty that brought us level or the scrum where Nigel chickened out.

Maybe try watching the rugby instead of reading a site that has a track record of getting the stats wrong,why has POM never outshone Heaslip in a Leinster/Munster match?

Because he has only once ever played at 8 against Leinster (at home recently) in his first start of the season having being playing 7 or 6 all of last season?

So only games where he played at 8 count now?You were using stats from games where he played at 6 before,don't hurt your back moving those goalposts.

How could you compare the performance of a 7 and 8 in a scrum for feck sake?

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:37 pm

red_stag wrote:Jennings is a bit like John Hayes. We are all sick of hearing how "under rated" he is.

Jennings is nothing like John Hayes. The 100+ international caps & 2 Lions Tours that Hayes has confirm that.

by red_stag Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:42 pm

I don't mean in terms of ability SinE.

Jennings is a club level player who some claim could play internationally

Hayes was an international level player who some claim was world class

However the extent to which they were labelled as "under rated" was excessive in both cases.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:44 pm

Sin é wrote:

How could you compare the performance of a 7 and 8 in a scrum for feck sake?

by SecretFly Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:46 pm

Sin é wrote:

Sexton has a bit of a “rep” for being, how shall we put this, a little argumentative, notably with team-mates. As usual when you meet such a good-humoured, intelligent lad, you wonder how this could be so. At Riverview, he holds the door open for anybody within walking distance, politely orders his club sandwich, and nibbles on it while letting it go cold. But on the pitch or at training, he’s different.

“Well, I probably do argue, but it’s my job. I have to know what Joe wants most of all. I’m the guy on the pitch who decides which move we pull out at which time. Obviously messages come on but I have to try to organise, and sometimes that ends in arguments. I don’t like it. I end up going home thinking ‘I had an argument with him’ and I regret it. And I lose sleep over it. But it’s work and I don’t really argue with people away from rugby; I would be quite different away from rugby.

“There’s a bit of a switch that goes off,” he admits with a wry chuckle. “Even in training, I lose it a bit. It’s something I’m trying to control a bit, to be honest with you. I do agree that I probably have to temper it a little bit in terms of the way I do it. I’ve had some discussions with other players about how I go about that. Not everyone is perfect and sometimes I get my point across in the wrong way at times, but I think I’m getting better at it, with age.”

?? - Just the kinda guy I had him down as. Quiet and unassuming off-field - highly competitive, serious, po-faced and often beligerent in his criticisms of what's happening on the field and towards his fellow players.

Was that little piece meant to be a big eye-opener for us. He is no different than how I've always seen him - and I like it. One player pats his fellow players on the back and might get results that way, another player might be more confrontational and argumentative.

These guys aren't kids. He shouts and whines and the other guys sometimes pull him up on it after. He's still the guy that dragged his team through a famous second half of what looked like a hopeless game that eventually led them to a HC cup. Yeah, every team can benefit from a guy who is never happy, always complaining, forever agruing and thinks he's always right.

Just look at the 606 team - now where would be all be without.............................................. Wink

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:55 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sin é wrote:

How could you compare the performance of a 7 and 8 in a scrum for feck sake?

Its like this - I'd say that Coughlan & Heaslip are better at controlling ball at the back of a scrum than POM is. Thats probably because they play there all the time. I'd say Coughlan is far better than Healip at the back of a retreating scrum.

by **rodders** Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:55 pm

Wow that piece has really opened my eyes!..... how in bejesus name did that journo manage to corroborate that Sextons sandwich was cold before he ate it? Amazingly insightful journalism there! Smile

.

by **Notch** Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:56 pm

Hey, Heaslip is overrated. No! O'Mahony is overrated. Oh shut up you tiresome bores.

Guess what kids? They both have EVERYTHING to prove. They haven't earned any great plaudits in their international careers. Like so, so, so many players in this Ireland team.

I'm so sick and tired of us either hyping up or knocking down our own players. You all better hope the manscaped prima donna Heaslip is pulling his finger out and O'Mahony is as good as his one-eyed cheerleaders seem to think. Because we need them both.

We have a few guys who have proven their class in a green jersey like Bowe, O'Connell, Kearney, Ferris, O'Driscoll, Best. Those guys are key. And every single player outside of that has no claim on greatness whatsoever. Everything for them to prove, as much as we prematurely anoint them they should get no special treatment in selection and need to prove their form. And very few in this squad are doing that. So very few deserve to be talked up going into this series.

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:58 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Sexton has a bit of a “rep” for being, how shall we put this, a little argumentative, notably with team-mates. As usual when you meet such a good-humoured, intelligent lad, you wonder how this could be so. At Riverview, he holds the door open for anybody within walking distance, politely orders his club sandwich, and nibbles on it while letting it go cold. But on the pitch or at training, he’s different.

“Well, I probably do argue, but it’s my job. I have to know what Joe wants most of all. I’m the guy on the pitch who decides which move we pull out at which time. Obviously messages come on but I have to try to organise, and sometimes that ends in arguments. I don’t like it. I end up going home thinking ‘I had an argument with him’ and I regret it. And I lose sleep over it. But it’s work and I don’t really argue with people away from rugby; I would be quite different away from rugby.

“There’s a bit of a switch that goes off,” he admits with a wry chuckle. “Even in training, I lose it a bit. It’s something I’m trying to control a bit, to be honest with you. I do agree that I probably have to temper it a little bit in terms of the way I do it. I’ve had some discussions with other players about how I go about that. Not everyone is perfect and sometimes I get my point across in the wrong way at times, but I think I’m getting better at it, with age.”

?? - Just the kinda guy I had him down as. Quiet and unassuming off-field - highly competitive, serious, po-faced and often beligerent in his criticisms of what's happening on the field and towards his fellow players.

Was that little piece meant to be a big eye-opener for us. He is no different than how I've always seen him - and I like it. One player pats his fellow players on the back and might get results that way, another player might be more confrontational and argumentative.

These guys aren't kids. He shouts and whines and the other guys sometimes pull him up on it after. He's still the guy that dragged his team through a famous second half of what looked like a hopeless game that eventually led them to a HC cup. Yeah, every team can benefit from a guy who is never happy, always complaining, forever agruing and thinks he's always right.

Just look at the 606 team - now where would be all be without..............................................

ROG doesn't have rows with team mates. He gets on with them Whistle

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:01 pm

Notch wrote:Hey, Heaslip is overrated. No! O'Mahony is overrated. Oh shut up you tiresome bores.

Guess what kids? They both have EVERYTHING to prove. They haven't earned any great plaudits in their international careers. Like so, so, so many players in this Ireland team.

I'm so sick and tired of us either hyping up or knocking down our own players. You all better hope the manscaped prima donna Heaslip is pulling his finger out and O'Mahony is as good as his one-eyed cheerleaders seem to think. Because we need them both.

We have a few guys who have proven their class in a green jersey like Bowe, O'Connell, Kearney, Ferris, O'Driscoll, Best. Those guys are key. And every single player outside of that has no claim on greatness whatsoever. Everything for them to prove, as much as we prematurely anoint them they should get no special treatment in selection and need to prove their form. And very few in this squad are doing that. So very few deserve to be talked up going into this series.

Keith Earls is a key player for Ireland as he can cover so many positions so well. Sean O'Brien has covered very well for Ferris.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:01 pm

Sin é wrote:

Its like this - I'd say that Coughlan & Heaslip are better at controlling ball at the back of a scrum than POM is. Thats probably because they play there all the time. I'd say Coughlan is far better than Healip at the back of a retreating scrum.

You can say what you want,I can say you're wrong.

What I don't get is how DOD can use stats for POM as a 6 to show he outperformed Heaslip but then say that only matches at 8 count when they've played against each other?

Edit:Why are you trying to turn this article into a Sexton v ROG thing?

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:03 pm

Sin é wrote:
Notch wrote:Hey, Heaslip is overrated. No! O'Mahony is overrated. Oh shut up you tiresome bores.

Guess what kids? They both have EVERYTHING to prove. They haven't earned any great plaudits in their international careers. Like so, so, so many players in this Ireland team.

I'm so sick and tired of us either hyping up or knocking down our own players. You all better hope the manscaped prima donna Heaslip is pulling his finger out and O'Mahony is as good as his one-eyed cheerleaders seem to think. Because we need them both.

We have a few guys who have proven their class in a green jersey like Bowe, O'Connell, Kearney, Ferris, O'Driscoll, Best. Those guys are key. And every single player outside of that has no claim on greatness whatsoever. Everything for them to prove, as much as we prematurely anoint them they should get no special treatment in selection and need to prove their form. And very few in this squad are doing that. So very few deserve to be talked up going into this series.

Keith Earls is a key player for Ireland as he can cover so many positions so well. Sean O'Brien has covered very well for Ferris.

If only he could.

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:03 pm

Sin é wrote:
Notch wrote:Hey, Heaslip is overrated. No! O'Mahony is overrated. Oh shut up you tiresome bores.

Guess what kids? They both have EVERYTHING to prove. They haven't earned any great plaudits in their international careers. Like so, so, so many players in this Ireland team.

I'm so sick and tired of us either hyping up or knocking down our own players. You all better hope the manscaped prima donna Heaslip is pulling his finger out and O'Mahony is as good as his one-eyed cheerleaders seem to think. Because we need them both.

We have a few guys who have proven their class in a green jersey like Bowe, O'Connell, Kearney, Ferris, O'Driscoll, Best. Those guys are key. And every single player outside of that has no claim on greatness whatsoever. Everything for them to prove, as much as we prematurely anoint them they should get no special treatment in selection and need to prove their form. And very few in this squad are doing that. So very few deserve to be talked up going into this series.

Keith Earls is a key player for Ireland as he can cover so many positions so well. Sean O'Brien has covered very well for Ferris.

SOB isnt covering for anyone. He's the best backrower we have.

by **rodders** Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:05 pm

Notch wrote:Hey, Heaslip is overrated. No! O'Mahony is overrated. Oh shut up you tiresome bores.

Guess what kids? They both have EVERYTHING to prove. They haven't earned any great plaudits in their international careers. Like so, so, so many players in this Ireland team.

Eh?!

Heaslip was a Lions test no8 so I wouldn't say he hasn't earned great plaudits. I don't think Heaslip has anything to prove really, other than that he can still be as effective minus the yard of pace he has lost.

O'Mahoney is at the start of his journey, and whilst he has plenty to prove, he has time to do it and doesn't deserve any criticism at all for his career so far.

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:07 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Notch wrote:Hey, Heaslip is overrated. No! O'Mahony is overrated. Oh shut up you tiresome bores.

Guess what kids? They both have EVERYTHING to prove. They haven't earned any great plaudits in their international careers. Like so, so, so many players in this Ireland team.

I'm so sick and tired of us either hyping up or knocking down our own players. You all better hope the manscaped prima donna Heaslip is pulling his finger out and O'Mahony is as good as his one-eyed cheerleaders seem to think. Because we need them both.

We have a few guys who have proven their class in a green jersey like Bowe, O'Connell, Kearney, Ferris, O'Driscoll, Best. Those guys are key. And every single player outside of that has no claim on greatness whatsoever. Everything for them to prove, as much as we prematurely anoint them they should get no special treatment in selection and need to prove their form. And very few in this squad are doing that. So very few deserve to be talked up going into this series.

Keith Earls is a key player for Ireland as he can cover so many positions so well. Sean O'Brien has covered very well for Ferris.

SOB isnt covering for anyone. He's the best backrower we have.

Argue that one with Notch. He didn't shortlist him as being a key player.

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:09 pm

rodders wrote:
Notch wrote:Hey, Heaslip is overrated. No! O'Mahony is overrated. Oh shut up you tiresome bores.

Guess what kids? They both have EVERYTHING to prove. They haven't earned any great plaudits in their international careers. Like so, so, so many players in this Ireland team.

Eh?!

Heaslip was a Lions test no8

By default. No one else around! (Ryan Jones injured). Thats why he will have to smarten himself up this year as there are a few candidates.

by dublin_dave Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:10 pm

because all threads about the irish team turn into a Sexton/Rog debate on page 7!!!!!

End of the day we can debate the merits of individual players all we like. We are going backwards and we will not get out of this malaise with the current coaching set up. Deccie is from the school of it its broken yerrah lets not bother to try and fix it.

In the words of Eamon Dunphy the set up is redundant, stone age and bereft.

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:14 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Its like this - I'd say that Coughlan & Heaslip are better at controlling ball at the back of a scrum than POM is. Thats probably because they play there all the time. I'd say Coughlan is far better than Healip at the back of a retreating scrum.

You can say what you want,I can say you're wrong.

What I don't get is how DOD can use stats for POM as a 6 to show he outperformed Heaslip but then say that only matches at 8 count when they've played against each other?

Edit:Why are you trying to turn this article into a Sexton v ROG thing?

Its only a Sexton v ROG thing because you are making it.

Fly says that Sexton acts the b***lix with his team mate because of the position he plays. ROG plays in a similar position and he doesn't, which is a counter argument to Fly's claim that an outhalf has to act the b***lix to get his team to play well.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:16 pm

I've decided to put Dumb and Dumber on ignore,I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy this forum a lot more from now on.

by **rodders** Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:17 pm

Sin é wrote:
Fly says that Sexton acts the b***lix with his team mate because of the position he plays.

That's not really a direct quote now is it? Wink

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:18 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Fly says that Sexton acts the b***lix with his team mate because of the position he plays.

That's not really a direct quote now is it?

Crap I still see his drivel if people quote him,oh well some relief is better than nothing.

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:20 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I've decided to pu Dumb and Dumber on ignore,I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy this forum a lot more from now on.

Just ask Rodders how that went for him. 'Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in'.

by dublin_dave Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:24 pm

ah i see we are on about johnny the deranged psychopath sexton again. truly the most bad tempered violent out half ever to play rugby.

man should have been sectioned years ago

by Sin é Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:24 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Fly says that Sexton acts the b***lix with his team mate because of the position he plays.

That's not really a direct quote now is it?

No. Its paraphrased. Maybe Fly might confirm if that is what he meant!

by SecretFly Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:25 pm

Just on the idea that a Lions selection defines your abilities as a player.

No - not in my opinion, it doesn't.

Firstly, we all disagree with who should be on a Lions team in the first place. All of us...all the time.
Secondly, human and frail coaches choose those players (just like any normal coaches choosing players they like over players other coaches might like)
Thirdly - emm, the Lions lost the series.

Heaslip was/is good...and was even quite superb at a time...but being a Lion didn't make him so.... in my little opinion, that is Wink

by SecretFly Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:29 pm

Me speaks drivel? Laugh

Oh well... it just ain't my week!

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:30 pm

Did anyone see how many times last night on rugby club that the lions was refered to as the "british lions". Quinell even went one better by saying that "we are all british".

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:35 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone see how many times last night on rugby club that the lions was refered to as the "british lions". Quinell even went one better by saying that "we are all british".

Lol,ah well in fairness the full title is a mouthful and correct me if I'm wrong but they were callled the British Lions when those guys were growing up.It can be hard to change your way of thinking on something like that.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 26 Oct 2012, 4:36 pm

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:I've decided to pu Dumb and Dumber on ignore,I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy this forum a lot more from now on.

Just ask Rodders how that went for him. 'Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in'.

Really lol,what happened?

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