India v England First ODI Thread

[msp83]

First topic message reminder :

The first of the 5 match ODI series between India and England will be played at Rajkot tomorrow at the Saurashtra Cricket Association stadium.
England will be on a high after their test series win last month. They are the top ranked ODI side in the world and had a fine 2012 in a format where they struggled in the past.
With Kevin Pietersen back after all those issues, the batting is further strengthened. Ian Bell who struggled big during the test series has found some form in the warm up matches and captain Alastair Cook is in the form of his life and has a special place in his heart for Indian bowling.
As far as the playing side goes, Cook, Bell, Pietersen and Morgan pick themselves. Craig Kieswetter should be the favorite to start the series with the gloves, but Jos Buttler's explosive batting might see him being picked. Samit Patel's handy 2nd string and the fact that he's a spinner might see him being picked at 7. In the bowling department, Steven Finn picks himself, and as Graeme Swann is rested, James Tredwell should be the first choice spinner. Jade Dernbach's experience and his decent showing in the warm ups might see him being picked over Stuart Meaker.
As far as India are concerned, they'll be going into the series under a lot of pressure having lost the home test series as well as a home ODI series against Pakistan. The process of change started with the axing of Zaheer Khan from the test side and his continued non-selection in the limited over squads. Now for this series, the underperforming opener Virender Sehwag found himself axed and Cheteshwar Pujara's selection is not just recognition of his performances, but also a notice to struggling opener gautam Gambhir. Gambhir might get to start series though, and Ajinkya Rahane should now get a run in the side. The middle order picks itself with Kohli, Yuvraj,Dhoni, Raina and Ravindra Jadeja as the all-rounder. Bhuvneshwar Kumar, R Ashwin, Ishant Sharma and the youngster Shami Ahmed should form the bowling unit.
This is the first international game at the SCA stadium. When the domestic Challenger Trophy was played, the BCCI had to ask for an explanation as to why did the batsmen had it all very easy out there on the track.
The 12 PM start should ensure the dew factor won't have too much of a say.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

How many overs does Dernbach have left? (he says hoping the answer is 0)

Well I talked that up

[trebellbobaggins]

going to be a fun year.

Got more India games and then the kiwi trip to deal with for the moment.

[Duty281]

One nil to the En-ger-land and the World's No.1 ODI team. Well done lads.

What have we learnt? We've learnt that despite missing Trott and 3 of our best bowlers in Anderson, Swann and Broad we are capable of beating India in their own backyard. We must be firm favourites for the only ODI event of any significance this year - the Champions Trophy hosted in our green and pleasant land.

As for today, the batting was very good. Every batsman made at least 20, Cook and Bell laid the foundations beautifully, the middle order capitalised and we piled on 325. I'd like to say a particular well done to Patel, I've given him some stick, so have others, his innings of 44 off 20 was quite possibly match-winning and was more fluent than KP and Morgan. Well done Samit Patel.

Well done also to Tredwell, 4/44 in an ODI in India for a spinner is a top top effort. You could say Dernbach and Bresnan were expensive, but I would consider them second-string, and they did pick up wickets at valuable times. Again, well done England, twas a team effort. Roll on Tuesday.

[Mad for Chelsea]

thought Dernbach did pretty well at the death, and even in the PP. OK he went for a few, but that's always likely to happen in those circumstances, and he struck the decisive blow when removing Dhoni and Jadeja when to my eyes India seemed firm favourites, so he deserves some credit. Held his nerve well in the final over too, despite giving a boundary first ball (which wasn't his fault). My concern is that he was a bit all over the place at the start of the innings (his line to the left-handers especially).

Bresnan I thought didn't bowl too badly, but at his pace on this sort of pitch he looks like a bowler who can really be targeted. Then again, not sure Woakes is much better (similar pace). Meaker could be an option with his extra pace too of course.

Finn was a mixed bag at the start and at his pace on these outfields if he strays it goes for four, but came back really well in the PP and did a decent job at the death, which suggests it may have been lack of rhythm. I expect him to improve as the series goes on.

Tredwell bowled really well, and continues IMO to be underrated. He's not as good as Swann, but he's a really clever bowler who knows his game very well, I expect him to have a good series. Also a good fielder, which is useful.

The batsmen all did well, KP or Morgan would have wanted to bat a bit longer, but in the end it worked out alright with Samit's late injection of pace (in fact I won't even mention the poor fumble he made at one point ).

Fielding was a bit of a mixed bag, some very fine stops, but there were a couple of "catches" which were mis-judged (thinking Cook at mid-off off Raina and Bell in the covers off Kumar). Don't blame Morgan for missing Dhoni (that would have been an absolute stunner of a catch), or Kieswetter's late miss, both more seen as saving boundaries then missed chances.

All in all, very pleasing to win without three of our frontline bowlers. People will say we leaked a few too many with the ball, but these pitches are incredldnibly difficult to bowl on, especially with the new regulations.

For India, you could say too many batsmen made starts without kicking on, but they did for England too really. I'd say it was more a case of constantly losing wickets at the wrong times: whenever you felt they got ahead of the game, they lost a wicket or two. Kohli also is going through a bit of a rough patch, which doesn't help. I'm a bit concerned about Jadeja's batting: I like the guy, think he's a useful cricketer, but I do wonder if he has the range of shots you need from a n°6 or 7, you need those guys to be capable of real acceleration.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Who would you say is the better batsman out of Bresnan and Woakes? I really like Woakes and think he should be given a shot

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Woakes for Bresnan wouldnt really change anything, both are at best mediocre in this format. Extremely frustrating to see guys like Woakes consistently asked to prove themselves in limited overs when its their first class performances that got them noticed.
I doubt England will change anything for the next game, although thats probably the most likely if they do

[teassoc]

Credit also to Root for his very valuable 9 overs. Bit of an unsung hero.

[Shelsey93]

Woakes's record in England colours is very poor (including warm-up games). Most of his wickets came in one spell, where he took 6 but was actually quite expensive. I'm not sure he's ideally suited to one-day cricket to be honest: his batting is good, but he's not a front-line batsman, and his bowling is a bit slow, without producing the 'heavy ball' that Bresnan does when he's at his best.

Dernbach again showing himself to be very average for most of the innings, but strong at the death. Hopefully closing out the game will give him the confidence to go on.

I do think we need an extra bowler, particularly if Patel isn't being considered front-line. The options aren't great, but Briggs for Root might have to happen. Patel can't be dropped after his 40, and whilst it would be harsh on Root it would be in the interests of balance.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

thing is though Shelsey who comes in if you drop Root?
Only Woakes..and what does that add to the bowling...more not quite fast right arm seam. England were very glad of the option of Root and additional slow bowling in this game, all the quicks were far too easy to score off simply by putting the bat near the ball.
If conditions are similar in the next game then they need the slow bowling options which if anything were underused in this game.
Briggs? That would leave a huge tail.

I doubt they will change a winning side.

[Shelsey93]

Agree you don't want to change a winning side.

Would probably be Briggs that would come in. I'm not a huge fan (and would have preferred Rafiq or even Borthwick to have been picked). The tail would be long, but no longer than England had for much of the summer.

And I do like Root at 4. Patel is complicating matters by being good in one department but not doing the job he's actually being picked for!

[guildfordbat]

Dernbach again showing himself to be very average for most of the innings, but strong at the death. Hopefully closing out the game will give him the confidence to go on.

Lack of confidence is not Dernbach's greatest problem.

[msp83]

Well, the Ravindra Jadeja question is a dilemma. Jadeja has justified his selection in the side particularly with the ball and in the field. However the usual questions about hissuitability to bat number 7 are back. He can surely bat, and his big hitting abilities are improving, as was shown when he smashed a couple of massive 6s against Pakistan in the game India won and he did smash the likes of Umar Gull. But to do it consistently and right from the word go, I doubt whether he has the game for that. He's the 2nd best runner between the wickets after Dhoni and convert 1s into 2s and 2s into 3s. Perhaps India should consider batting him up the order with Raina going down to 7? Anyways Raina at 5 isn't quite playing the long enough innings, gets the start, build a bit of a partnership and then gets out, seems to be his favored way of functioning at the moment. Raina wouldn't have a problem smashing it from the word go. Jadeja at 5, Dhoni at 6 to guard against any collapse and also do his usual bit, of finishing things off, and Raina to take the attack to the bowling from the word go.
The other interesting thing is that Gautam Gambhir has earned a reprieve for himself with that 50 but I think Gautam has to make more substantial contribution, if he gets a start, he has to see it through and bat long, these days he seems incapable of doing that.
But he can't be dropped after this performance, so Cheteshwar Pujara will have to wait a bit more.

[msp83]

The new regulations are hampering Dhoni's options with the parttimers.
May be as cricinfo's Siddharth Ravindran suggests, when Irfan Pathan is back, he could come back in for Ishant Sharma. If the situation demands that the number 7 starts attack from the word go then he can come in with Jadeja batting 8, and if the number 7 has to stay out there with a more established batsman then it could be Jadeja 7 and Irfan 8.
But for that option to be considered, Irfan has to be back from his injury layoff first.

[Shelsey93]

Dernbach again showing himself to be very average for most of the innings, but strong at the death. Hopefully closing out the game will give him the confidence to go on.

Lack of confidence is not Dernbach's greatest problem.

True. But we have to hope! Not that many options in this squad, and he won't be dropped after bowling well at the end!

[Guest]

shelsey i would have also preferred Borthwick instead of Briggs...

to be honest the only form of the game that Briggs has ever actually done ok in at county level is t20...

[Shelsey93]

Yep. He's had a few decent efforts in CB40 but those matches often lack intensity and some of the best players. In a televised CB40 match last season where Notts had a very good side out he got battered by Taylor and Patel.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Lack of confidence is not Dernbach's greatest problem.

Very true!

[king_carlos]

Disturbingly I'd add another Surrey vote to that comment Corporal and guildford.

An impressive win yesterday no doubt however. One thing I really like was seeing a bit of flexibility in the batting line-up, it's all well and good keeping Morgan for the end of the innings (he is very good at the death) but there is no point holding back one of the more destructive batsmen in the game if we've already got a very strong foundation to build on.

[Shelsey93]

Yep. I think that is built into the plan (and happened a bit last year too).

Morgan is (rightly in my view) at 5, because if he has to come in before, say, 20 overs have gone you risk losing him before the point of the game where he is most effective, and where it has now become critical to score a lot of runs (the last 15). Of course, if you get to the 30 over-ish mark before losing your 2nd wicket then Morgan, Kieswetter and Patel leapfrog whoever is at 4, as was seen yesterday.

[msp83]

Would Root have done a lot worse than Kieswetter managed. I really doubt. Kieswetter is too hit or miss for my liking. Too many dot balls at the death. Of course he can bring off the big hits, but those unscored balls are a concern. Root is trusted to open the innings even in T-20s for his county, he can't be that bad.

[ShankyCricket]

Would Root have done a lot worse than Kieswetter managed. I really doubt. Kieswetter is too hit or miss for my liking. Too many dot balls at the death. Of course he can bring off the big hits, but those unscored balls are a concern. Root is trusted to open the innings even in T-20s for his county, he can't be that bad.

Agreed.

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