England Vs. Scotland 16H00 2/2/13 6N build up and Match thread

[RuggerRadge2611]

First topic message reminder :

Well I'll extend a warm welcome to our English cousins in our build up and match thread.

Let’s set the standard for these threads by not WUMing and having a good banter and an insightful discussion

The summer of 2012 was a loving affair as Scots were cheering on Ennis, Farrah and Wiggins. Whilst the English were cheering on the likes of Hoy, Murray and Grainger. All that is now a distant memory as the oldest fixture in rugby is set to be a highlight of the opening weekend.

So where are we? England coming in fresh of a stunning victory against the seemingly invincible All Blacks, whereas Scotland are coming into the match after a dire run of matches that saw Robinson fall on his sword.

Last year Lancaster's England was the unknown element and tipped to be defeated by Scotland who wanted vengeance for their 2011 RWC loss. The at Murrayfield game took an unexpected turn as Scotland butchered chance after chance and charge down Charlie showed us why Parks should have stayed in retirement.

Fast forward 1 year and it's a role reversal. Scotland with a new coach and a new attitude of Play well 1st, win games 2nd. I for one have no idea what to expect from Scotland in this tournament.

England though have set their stall out in the Autumn a convincing win against NZ but the quietly forgotten loss to the underwhelming Wallabies the week before swept, discreetly under the carpet.

No doubt England will be going in confident and the Scots will be... well going in with not many expectations at all.

Scotland have named Kelly Brown as captain and it's a well-earned accolade. The Sarries blindisde has been in excellent form all year and is the best choice for the job.

England are still sweating over the Tuilagi injury and despite saying there will be no special treatment it seems he is getting every opportunity to become match fit...




England Squad



15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 6 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 29 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 11 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 0 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 11 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 12 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 5 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 4 cap)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 35 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 4 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 12 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 13 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 12 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (London Irish, 42 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 22 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 4 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 15 caps)
20. James Haskell (London Wasps, 45 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 37 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 53 caps)
23. David Strettle (London Irish, 12 caps)



Scotland



15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)
10 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors)
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) [VC]

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) [VC]
2 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors)
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors)
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks)
5 Jim Hamilton (Gloucester Rugby)
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan)
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) [C]
8 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier)

Substitutes:
16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby)
17 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors)
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby)
19 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors)
20 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors)
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors)
23 Max Evans (Castres)

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

[quote="Solid8"]

Out of interest do the English fans feel the same contempt for the Scotland team as we do for the English and do you class us as your biggest rival?

Not even remotely, in terms of general bickering its Wales, even then ts more a patronisinbg disdain than the venomous bile thats felt inreturn. In playing and achievement terms it would be France.
Of course its probably the Irish tat beat us the most, but foir some reason the geral English populace has this twee romantic love of them ...despite the contempt they hold for us.
Then theres the Aussies and Kiwis....
See if the English spent as much time being as bitter about the people who irationaly hate us as they do we wouldnt really have time for aything else. So instead we just stick to arrogance and choose as vew you all as sources of amusement.



I notice a lot of people are bringing up Englad beating New Zealand at Twickers as "look great shocks can hapen". Yeah it was a big surpise, it was a whole 10 years since it happened. Scotland beating England there ...well thats already been 27 years in the making. So we have a big surprise, then we have something that is nearly 3 times as unlikley to happen.
In this cas I do believe its arrogance to say England are the better side. To try and use the fact that Scotland lost to Tonga as evidence that they have a reasonable chance of beating England is frankly barmy. Nor do I hold it as argant that the England players would think that being capable of beaing NZ by 17 makes them able to beat Scotland.

[nganboy]

Its interesting this irrational hatred of England. Why do so many have it? And since it seems to be so consistent may be it isn't as irrational as it may appear.
Personally I think hatred is a little strong but gets the point across.

[Glas a du]

As they say on Facebook - it's complicated

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Its beacuse we keep beating scotland isnt it...soory guys!

[littlejohn]

Its interesting this irrational hatred of England. Why do so many have it? And since it seems to be so consistent may be it isn't as irrational as it may appear.
Personally I think hatred is a little strong but gets the point across.

i don't think its irrational. England seem to develop at regular intervals the odd self centred, cocky and arrogant player ala ashton, cipriani, hartley, haskell, foden and strettle. Not much in rugby gives me more joy than seeing these guys get smashed!

I've always enjoyed the banter with english fans at twickenham and dublin however, whether we win or lose!

[Hound_of_Harrow]

nganboy, there are numerous reasons for the rivalries.

[Alex_Germany]

No I actually meant posters on here who slam Telfer for his claims then in the same post say England will definetely win.

Imagine New Zealand is playing Tonga.

Statement 1: New Zealanders are a bunch of arrogant sods who kicked our cousins out of the Island and we all hate them, because they stole my great grandad's sheep.
Statement 2: New Zealand will definitely win.

Statement 1 is the kind of thing an idiot would say. Or Telfer.
Statement 2 is not arrogant - it's an expression of confidence or fact.

If any England player thinks they won't win on Saturday, they shouldn't be in the squad. England fans are allowed some doubt: "We expect England to win". Scotland fans are allowed hope.

By the way, I'm sure most England fans will be hoping for a few Scotland wins after this weekend.

[Alex_Germany]

Its interesting this irrational hatred of England. Why do so many have it? And since it seems to be so consistent may be it isn't as irrational as it may appear.
Personally I think hatred is a little strong but gets the point across.

i don't think its irrational. England seem to develop at regular intervals the odd self centred, cocky and arrogant player ala ashton, cipriani, hartley, haskell, foden and strettle. Not much in rugby gives me more joy than seeing these guys get smashed!

I've always enjoyed the banter with english fans at twickenham and dublin however, whether we win or lose!

I'm sure every team has its mix of great guys and plonkers. Perhaps the media bring them to the fore more "effectively" in Wales and England. Remeber also, rugby tends not to suit the really shy unassuming guys at school and University. Most rugby players have bigger mouths than most non-rugby players (sweeping generalisation - the owners of the curry houses would back me on that, but still welcome the teams).

I'm not sure what you've got against the above players. Did they beat up your neighbour?

OK, Haskell's got his "brand", Ashton his swallow dive, Cipriani and Foden get celebrity girl friends, Hartley reckons he's hard, and I've never read much about Strettle. Every village football and rugby team has these types.

[George Carlin]

Perhaps it's just my age, but in the context of something like sport, I don't feel "contempt" for anyone and what English players or fans think about the Scottish team or Scots fans generally isn't remotely important enough to me to get upset about. Life's too short and having spent more than a decade in London, the world is too large for jingoism.

What a lot of people on these boards seem to mistake is the difference between a fact and an opinion. Just because you feel strongly that something should or is the case does not make it so and it's this expression of opinion in binary, generalised terms that justifiably annoys the living sh!t out of other posters here with different allegiances. I believe that Kim Kardashian is a talentless scrag of walking hair extensions and I cannot believe that she gains column inches. However, I am also willing to believe that this belief is not shared by everyone and so I am not going to pronouce this as a 'fact'.

To use Alex's example above - it's one thing to say that you believe that your team will score more than another. It's quite another to say that 'your players are superior' - something that demonstrably cannot be proven in binary terms - you can only talk about what the collective did in a match to the extent that it means one team scored more points than another. I don't think that Wales played better as a collective than England last February 25th, but the fact remains that an astonishing piece of bravura and individual skill by Scott Williams won the game for them.

This is isn't tennis - with two players, two rackets and the need to rely solely on yourself. It's a team sport where the margins are gossamer thin at professional level and (as the 'Greatest' threads have proven) the best players aren't always on the best teams and vice versa.

What does annoy me, however, is people who post on these boards (and if you don't know who you are, I feel sorry for you) belittling other people's fans and team, then only to claim (a) they aren't doing so because they care about what anyone else thinks about them and (b) their intention was not to annoy anyone.

That's just disingenuous and completely counter-intuitive to why anyone posts anything on here.

Or as everyone's favourite, mildly racist, grumpy uncle Jim Telfer would say, "dishonest".

[screamingaddabs]

Its interesting this irrational hatred of England. Why do so many have it? And since it seems to be so consistent may be it isn't as irrational as it may appear.
Personally I think hatred is a little strong but gets the point across.

Why do the Scots dislike the English? Numerous historical reasons really, from Bannock Burn to Maggie Thatcher.

I live in Scotland (in Glasgow) and to be honest I don't get any problems from the Scots about being English. There are a few numptys I'm sure, but I've walked around town in an England shirt, watched England games in a pub in an England shirt and not had any problems whatsoever. I wouldn't fancy wearing an England football shirt around, but that's a bit different.

On match day in the Calcutta cup you get strong rivalry based on history, but I wouldn't call it hatred. Telfer is at the extreme end in my experience.

I support Scotland against everyone except England and Italy (when they play I support the team with the ball!).

[Alex_Germany]

[quote="screamingaddabs"]

I wouldn't fancy wearing an England football shirt around, but that's a bit different.

Why is it different?

I'm sure it is, but wonder why? And perhaps a lot of the negative image of Scotland is down to the fact that you can't wear an England football shirt in Glasgow (or so the media lead me to believe), but you can wear a Scotland football shirt (almost) anywhere in England.

I would like to hear that you can go to a pub in Glasgow this Saturday and watch the rugby in an England shirt. If England win, each Scot buys you a pint. If Scotland win, you buy each Scot a pint

p.s. I've invited the Irish guy in my village to watch the rugby.

[RDW]

Contempt and hatred are very strong words and I definitely don’t feel any of that to our English cousins!

For me it is sporting rivalry and nothing else. I think it is fairly ignorant to dislike someone purely because they are English for example – we live in a country where people get beat up simply because they answered the wrong question when approached by a group of people who asked ‘what football team do you support?’, which to me is just barbaric, ignorant and those people should be locked away in cages until they learn how to be civil human beings.

Anyway I digress. Yes I think some of the English players are douchebags, but I also think some Irish, Welsh and indeed Scottish players are douchbags! Yes some English players are arrogant and cocky – but again so are players in all the other 6N teams. It is often a required trait of a professional sportsman to have an in built self belief that often comes across as arrogance. However, I was supporting England in 2003 like a lot of Scots were because I was an admirer of the like of Johnson, Hill, Wilkinson, Greenwood and Robinson etc. and a lot of them seemed like good rugby guys on and off the pitch.

When it comes to sporting rivalry though I am as passionate as the next face painted kilt wearing Scotsman – I will be cheering in the boozer any time an England player gets smashed, makes a balls up or misses a kick, and I will be lamenting our loss equally as strong at the end of the day. But that’s rugby – I will be happy to have a pint with an Englishman after the game and generally don’t have many bad words to say about English rugby fans. There are some exceptions though – I’ve never been closer to punching someone than in Auckland after the Scotland – England game in the World cup. I was walking back to my hostel in my kilt and Scotland top and a group of young English guys started shouting at me saying ‘boo hoo little Scotsman, run home now!’ while rubbing their eyes pretending to cry. They were douchbags, but likewise I know that some English people will have experienced something similar when we’ve beaten them at Murrayfield and they are out in town after.

So I think it is very ignorant to dislike a nation purely because they are not one of your own.

Unless it is Austin Healy – then it is perfectly acceptable.

[Triangulation]

Back to the rugby!

A few observations about the upcoming Calcutta Cup match...

I do expect it to be a close fought match.

A lot of comments along the lines of "if it's raining Scotland to win" . While I concede that rain can be a leveller so that if there is a perceived gap between the two teams then that gap is narrowed I don’t see how that equates to a scotland win. The scots have a big pack but england do too and it's not as if england arent solid at scrum and lineout. The scots can surely be no more used to playing in the rain than the english particularly - certainly not enough to make a difference. Looking across the teams I think that england has a clear edge in terms of kicking players across the backline so we will win any aerial ping pong contest hands down.

Finally one of the the aspects that does worry me is the running threat of the scots back 3 - visser, hogg and maitland could do some damage. Less so in the rain.

All in all I think that if it rains that will play into English hands more than Scots ones.

Finally and on an unrelated matter - can someone please explain to me why it is that wingers cannot be more interchangeable left and right? I don’t get it. Surely the skillset is the same for left and right wing play?

[lostinwales]

England confirmed
15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 6 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 29 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 11 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 0 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 11 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 12 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 5 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 4 cap)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 35 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 4 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 12 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 13 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 12 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (London Irish, 42 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 22 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 4 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 15 caps)
20. James Haskell (London Wasps, 45 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 37 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 53 caps)
23. David Strettle (London Irish, 12 caps)

[lostinwales]

Wow - Dan Cole most caps at 35 - Splashdown 2nd at 29.....

[Triangulation]

p.s is Strettle really the best we have for that spot??

[Cumbrian]

England confirmed
15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 6 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 29 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 11 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 0 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 11 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 12 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 5 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 4 cap)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 35 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 4 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 12 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 13 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 12 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (London Irish, 42 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 22 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 4 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 15 caps)
20. James Haskell (London Wasps, 45 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 37 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 53 caps)
23. David Strettle (London Irish, 12 caps)

Thank God for that. I came on this thread to talk about rugby and I find a discussion about why people hate me because of my nationality and that I apparently feel contempt for the Scots (news to me).

[Sam]

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (London Irish, 42 caps)
23. David Strettle (London Irish, 12 caps)

Know some transfer news we don't?

[lostinwales]

ha ha no its just taken straight from the RFU website so maybe someone there knows something ^^

[Cumbrian]

That team has a lot of guys who can come in and stand at first receiver (Farrell, 36 and Goode).

Has Barritt played at outside centre much for Sarries? He's an excellent defender so I don't worry about him from that point of view, just how he is going to slot into the attacking game plan

[RDW]

Finally and on an unrelated matter - can someone please explain to me why it is that wingers cannot be more interchangeable left and right? I don’t get it. Surely the skillset is the same for left and right wing play?

There is a difference, and as someone who plays on the wing I’ll hopefully try and explain! This is one of my pet peeves on 606V2, when someone puts Visser on the right wing or something like that.

Granted it is not as much of an issue to play a right winger on the left wing as it is to play a natural 13 at 12 for example, but there are differences.

My first point is this – what wing did Jonah Lomu play on? Shane Williams? Tommy Bowe? For pretty much their entire career they have played on one wing and rarely played on the other.

If a winger plays on the same wing week in week out then their positioning, alignment and all round reading of the game is based on that position. You know your place in attack and know which running angles you can make and which work well. It is fairly different taking an inside ball if you’ve come from the left than if you’ve come from the right, for example. It doesn’t sound like much but it is there.

As I said though it is the most interchangeable position on the rugby pitch – right wing to left wing say – but there is definitely a difference and the likes of Lomu and Williams made their name playing on the same wing week in week out, which I think is enough proof that for them there was only one wing they wanted to play on!

[Geordie]

So as i suspected...

10. Farrell
12. Twelvetrees (On attack i would assume)
13 Barritt ( Moving to 12 on defence possibly)

Well no worries about the defence of that lot. Hopefully 36 can bring the creativity to the trio...with Farrell controlling the territorial aspects. Its a lot to ask of Twelvetrees mind on his debut. Looking forward to seeing this game now...

Has the Saxons been named...?

[Cumbrian]

Wow - Dan Cole most caps at 35 - Splashdown 2nd at 29.....

Think about a couple of years time though. Those with 10/ 15 caps should all be up around 20-30 caps at the same time and with any luck the more experienced players like Cole will have 45-50. It's been short term pain for long term gain IMO.

[Alex_Germany]

Back to the rugby!

Finally and on an unrelated matter - can someone please explain to me why it is that wingers cannot be more interchangeable left and right? I don’t get it. Surely the skillset is the same for left and right wing play?

I switched to wing after school and could never figure out whether I was better on left or right. I played mostly on the right.

I can pass really well to the left, but poorly to the right, so being on the right wing (no need to pass far to the right) helped.

But then a very powerful right-hand hand off is better suited to the left wing.

Kicking for touch is easier on the left wing, but then they tend not to kick for touch these days.

And I really enjoyed coming in from the blind side and appearing near our Centres - that you can do from any side, but best from the right so you can then pass long to the left wing, or short inside. I probably got 40% of my tries on the other wing anyway.

Edit: And add a right footed side step to the left is more useful on the right.
So for right handers/footers, right wing is a bit easier, but not much.

[Cumbrian]

Saxons:

15 Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
14 Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
13 Joel Tomkins (Saracens)
12 Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
11 Tom Biggs (Bath Rugby)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
9 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

1 Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
2 Joe Gray (Harlequins)
3 Paul Doran-Jones (Northampton Saints)
4 Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
5 George Robson (Harlequins)
6 George Kruis (Saracens)
7 Will Fraser (Saracens)
8 Jordan Crane (Leicester Tigers, captain).

Replacements:
16 Rob Buchanan (Harlequins)
17 Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)
18 Kieran Brookes (Leicester Tigers)
19 Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
20 Jamie Gibson (London Irish)
21 Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
22 George Lowe (Harlequins)
23 Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)

The RFU website really is rubbish to find your way around.

[Rinsure]

The bench looks pretty dynamic. The usual introduction of guys on the hour mark might not cause me the usual amount of head-scratching.

I do loathe substitutions for the sake of it though, and the mass influx around the hour - although obviously part of the gameplan - does make me wonder why the guys coming off have been pulled.

That said, Hask for Morgan is obvious, Lawes will bring some oomph when he comes on, and Flood / Care give us options behind the scrum.

[George Carlin]

p.s is Strettle really the best we have for that spot??

Difficult to believe is he, Tri - there's at least 3 of the Saxons backline that I would have before him that are better footballers and cover more than one position.

[Comfort]

thats a stong looking england side!!!!!!!

That pack looks very, very good. Im a big fan of Launchberry and Woods.

The midfield looks good too, could this be the beginning of twelvetrees establishing himself at this level? Glos fans? 12. Twelvetrees 13. Tuilagi sounds like an interesting prospect!

[EnglishReign]

Pleased Lancaster is rewarding form by selecting 36 and starting T Youngs.

[AlastairW]

I'm alright with that. Not going to criticise just for the sake of it.

[beshocked]

Defence shouldn't be a problem with a heavy Saracens flavour to the backline but like most of you I do worry about the attack.

Expect to see Farrell and Twelvetrees kick a lot.

[Rinsure]

Pleased Lancaster is rewarding form by selecting 36 and starting T Youngs.

Pleased Youngs is starting. Sends out the right message across the side that no-one can walk back in. Hartley will have to earn his spot back if he wants it.

I do wonder what Strettle must have on Lancaster though...

[bluestonevedder]

I think the EPS bench looks really good, Strettle aside, who I just don't think is a really good bench option. I'd love for him to prove me wrong.

SL shifting Barritt to 13 and introducing 36 to inside centre makes me think that he's possibly thinking of a 12. 36 13. Tuilagi combination for the future. We'll have to see.

Really hope Twelvetrees delivers this weekend.

[Jimpy]

Hopefully Strettle wont be needed.

[RDW]

Is the A game on TV? Could be a cracker!

[screamingaddabs]

[quote="Alex_Germany"]

I wouldn't fancy wearing an England football shirt around, but that's a bit different.

Why is it different?

I'm sure it is, but wonder why? And perhaps a lot of the negative image of Scotland is down to the fact that you can't wear an England football shirt in Glasgow (or so the media lead me to believe), but you can wear a Scotland football shirt (almost) anywhere in England.

I would like to hear that you can go to a pub in Glasgow this Saturday and watch the rugby in an England shirt. If England win, each Scot buys you a pint. If Scotland win, you buy each Scot a pint

p.s. I've invited the Irish guy in my village to watch the rugby.

Aside from the fact that I'd hate to wear an England football shirt anyway (I really dislike football!) I don't really know. Maybe I would be fine wearing an England football shirt and it's just my prejudices being reflected?

I have no problem watching England play rugby in the pubs I've been to. Though I was a little disappointed that on the day Scotland beat SA (dismal game but a great win for the Scots), there was a bigger cheer when Samoa scored against England than when the final whistle went in the Scotland game.

I have to say that it also took me by surprise as most Scots that I know would not do this.

With regards to the football, at the world cup I was in a pub showing an England game and I found it really weird how much the Scottish got behind the team playing against England (I forget which team it was). It was very strange. Again, I didn't feel threatened at all by it, but I find it odd that they wanted England to lose so much. I couldn't care less if the Scottish football team win or lose (though to be fair I also don't care if the England football team win or lose).

Sorry for going so off topic everyone!

[Alex_Germany]

The bench looks pretty dynamic. The usual introduction of guys on the hour mark might not cause me the usual amount of head-scratching.

I do loathe substitutions for the sake of it though, and the mass influx around the hour - although obviously part of the gameplan - does make me wonder why the guys coming off have been pulled.

That said, Hask for Morgan is obvious, Lawes will bring some oomph when he comes on, and Flood / Care give us options behind the scrum.

Can someone tell me - at a high (pro, semi-pro) level, are most substitions planned? Eg, you're playing for 1 hour so pace yourself (that is run faster than if you were going for 80 minutes).

(Then of course, Woods get injured, Hask or Lawes comes on for him, and Morgan or Parling has to play an extra 20 minutes).

As for Haskell - how is he as a number 8 for 20-30 minutes?

[Barney McGrew did it]

That team has a lot of guys who can come in and stand at first receiver (Farrell, 36 and Goode).

Has Barritt played at outside centre much for Sarries? He's an excellent defender so I don't worry about him from that point of view, just how he is going to slot into the attacking game plan

There's going to be an attacking game plan?!

With little pace in the back 3, Farrel at FH and Barritt at 13 I think we all know the answer to that.

[Rinsure]

Can someone tell me - at a high (pro, semi-pro) level, are most substitions planned? Eg, you're playing for 1 hour so pace yourself (that is run faster than if you were going for 80 minutes).

Surely, surely the level of fitness at the very highest level (for this is what this is) should be such that the cream of the crop can go balls out for 80 mins without any notion of pacing? I expect the pedal to the metal from the first whistle, and it we ain't getting that then we're being cheated!

As for Haskell - how is he as a number 8 for 20-30 minutes?

I rate him - the only facet of his game lacking regards #8 is his control at the base of the scrum, IMHO. He brings a powerful carrying game, is decent on the deck and at the breakdown... he used to get pinged a lot, but he seems to "learn the ref" a lot quicker these days. Not much to pick between Morgan, Waldrom and Haskell, I reckon. Apart from only two of them are English

[Sugarlump]

Both the match day squads look good, I'd echo the questions over Strettles place on the bench but maybe Foden isn't quite ready yet. Also I have to admit, I was a massive fan of Strettle's running before the ankle/knee(?) injury that curtailed his progress a couple of years back. Was it in the 6N match against wales in 2008? That was a match of two differing halves!

As to the irrational dislikes of the opposition, I get pissy when commentators feel the need to add 'Big' before saying Jim Hamilton in a Bill McClaren-esque stylee 'There's Big Jim Hamilton, nearly 20st onder hoooof!'

Allan 'Chunk' Jacobson for looking like an over-weight special person, a type/ socio-demographic group I have frequently dealt with in health care services.

Finally, Tony Stanger and that was before 1990 as well!

[Sugarlump]

I reckon Haskell is a bit too muscle bound these days to really be a carrying threat but his destructive game is still very good. That tackle that put Census Johnstone on his arse being a good example

[EnglishReign]

Saxons game on sky sports 2, get in. Last week was a shambles to try and watch.

[Rinsure]

I reckon Haskell is a bit too muscle bound these days to really be a carrying threat but his destructive game is still very good. That tackle that put Census Johnstone on his arse being a good example

Intrigued by this - how can he be overly muscular to be a carrying threat? His pace is still good, from what I've seen.

[George Carlin]

With Farrell kicking goals like they're laser guided at the moment, I don't think England fans need to worry about the potential lack of midfield creativity.

[Geordie]

Saxons game on sky sports 2, get in. Last week was a shambles to try and watch.

It was shocking wasnt it...could see it anywhere.

But im at this game tomorrow so happy days...and a decent team out.

Just hope this feckin wind does one! .

[bluestonevedder]

I reckon Haskell is a bit too muscle bound these days to really be a carrying threat but his destructive game is still very good. That tackle that put Census Johnstone on his arse being a good example

Intrigued by this - how can he be overly muscular to be a carrying threat? His pace is still good, from what I've seen.

I thought he'd actually slimmed down a bit with his time at the Highlanders. Almost like he adapted his physique for the quick game.

[beshocked]

How many line breaks does 36 normally make?

George Carlin I think some England fans are getting too overly worried to be honest. 36 is more of a ball player than Manu. He offers another kicking option.

36 is an unknown quantity whereas Manu is not.

One thing that has not been talked about is the opposition centres. Will Sean Lamont give his back three good ball?

Could be a horrible day for Scotland's back three if England employ a strong kick chase and powerful defence.

Expect a lot of pressure being poured onto the Scottish back three.

[Sugarlump]

I reckon Haskell is a bit too muscle bound these days to really be a carrying threat but his destructive game is still very good. That tackle that put Census Johnstone on his arse being a good example

Intrigued by this - how can he be overly muscular to be a carrying threat? His pace is still good, from what I've seen.

Building muscle like a sprinter is all very well but the game is not just about straight line speed is it? There's lots different forces acting on the body during the 80 (or more realistically as mentioned above 20-30)mins of the game. I think he overdid the protein shakes, he's too top heavy and his balance is affected.

[Sugarlump]

I reckon Haskell is a bit too muscle bound these days to really be a carrying threat but his destructive game is still very good. That tackle that put Census Johnstone on his arse being a good example

Intrigued by this - how can he be overly muscular to be a carrying threat? His pace is still good, from what I've seen.

I thought he'd actually slimmed down a bit with his time at the Highlanders. Almost like he adapted his physique for the quick game.

You're probably right, he doesn't quite have the cartoon superhero thing going on so much, it annoyed me that he'd packed on so much muscle it appeared to impede his ability to pass the ball properly

[bluestonevedder]

I reckon Haskell is a bit too muscle bound these days to really be a carrying threat but his destructive game is still very good. That tackle that put Census Johnstone on his arse being a good example

Intrigued by this - how can he be overly muscular to be a carrying threat? His pace is still good, from what I've seen.

I thought he'd actually slimmed down a bit with his time at the Highlanders. Almost like he adapted his physique for the quick game.

You're probably right, he doesn't quite have the cartoon superhero thing going on so much, it annoyed me that he'd packed on so much muscle it appeared to impede his ability to pass the ball properly

It did get to the stage where he was huge, maybe just before he moved to Japan? You can tell from his running style he's not the most natural sprinter, and I'm sure the added weight was a factor. Nowadays though, he's started to look a little slimmer, but obviously still a large bloke. He seems to have a better motor on him now too. I think he's an excellent bench option.

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