Cian Healy - cited

by little_badger Mon 11 Feb 2013, 4:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

In other news the Pope is a Catholic (for now at least).

Espnscrum has the hearing set for Wednesday. Predictions on a post card. He may well live to regret a few moments of madness.

by aucklandlaurie Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:03 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:I just haven't got the puff for one of these Argie bargies anymore.Cole was being a bit naughty,Healy didn't like it.Healy made a bad choice.Italy and Scotland will benefit.It is easy and trite for me to say but let's move on.

Its all pretty innocent taffy, at least theyre not blaming the referee for not blowing the whistle earlier/louder.

by maestegmafia Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:09 pm

Comedy George Hook version of events

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=cIw6shbaTlg&NR=1

by neilthom7 Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:11 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:I just haven't got the puff for one of these Argie bargies anymore.Cole was being a bit naughty,Healy didn't like it.Healy made a bad choice.Italy and Scotland will benefit.It is easy and trite for me to say but let's move on.

I don't see how Italy would benefit but yes lets move on indeed

by Guest Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:12 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:This thread appears to be repeating arguments and counterarguments like Coldplay repeat their material!

It's like that Stephen Ferris thread from last year again. Par for the course really. Best thing to do is not criticise Irish players, I find.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:16 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:This thread appears to be repeating arguments and counterarguments like Coldplay repeat their material!

It's like that Stephen Ferris thread from last year again. Par for the course really. Best thing to do is not criticise Irish players, I find.

+10000

by lostinwales Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:19 pm

Yep - Ferris was just getting some work experience in for when he takes up dentistry after retiring

by MrsP Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:21 pm

Well he'll not make a very good dentist if he goes about grabbing his patients by one leg!

by lostinwales Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:23 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQNj3-BAHLk

by doctor_grey Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:31 pm

OK Healy banned for two Six Nations matches. I am OK with that, I suppose.

This was a bit difficult to discuss since we see slow motion replays of something which was over in 5 or 6 seconds. And still, we see different things. In this 5 or 6 seconds, Healy sees an opponent, possibly recognised as Cole, going down with the breakdown and ending up laying across. At he same time he rushes up to stamp down on the opponents leg. At that moment, could he see where the ball was, up by Cole's thing and not by the foot? Probably not. Could he see the ball was free enough for Murry to handle? Probably not. Cripe, people here see he replays and have different points of view.

So we are left with an intentional stamp, banned for two internationals. 'tis over. Time to move on.

I would be a bit more worried tha Healy seemed to carry his rage around longer as we saw when he started swinging later. But maybe he thought he would be forced to eat my wife's mother's cooking.

by maestegmafia Wed 13 Feb 2013, 10:57 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
I would be a bit more worried tha Healy seemed to carry his rage around longer as we saw when he started swinging later. But maybe he thought he would be forced to eat my wife's mother's cooking.

Could be that or it could be getting plenty of baiting and abuse from the opposition.

by doctor_grey Wed 13 Feb 2013, 11:01 pm

No. Thats no excuse at all. Winding up the opposition is part of the sport. If you lose your cool by being wound up, then you lose.

by Glas a du Wed 13 Feb 2013, 11:06 pm

Has Cole knobbed his Missus?

by The Boss Wed 13 Feb 2013, 11:35 pm

Apparently his miss is a real goodun so Cole better not have tainted her!

by The Great Aukster Wed 13 Feb 2013, 11:38 pm

Glas a du wrote:Has Cole knobbed his Missus?

You serious? Judging by his gut Cole missus his knob

by Glas a du Wed 13 Feb 2013, 11:40 pm

In acting terms I'm asking myself "what's his motivation"

by doctor_grey Wed 13 Feb 2013, 11:53 pm

Glas a du wrote:In acting terms I'm asking myself "what's his motivation"

Please clarify about which you are asking:
Dan Cole?
His missus?
His knob?

by ME-109 Wed 13 Feb 2013, 11:58 pm

Given the way he was losing the rag constantly he would have been better served giving Cole a good dig in the head than some innocuous stamp which left that dweeb on the BBC bleat on about it at half time. Stupid..

by red_stag Wed 13 Feb 2013, 11:58 pm

doctor_grey wrote:No. Thats no excuse at all. Winding up the opposition is part of the sport. If you lose your cool by being wound up, then you lose.

+1

by Glas a du Wed 13 Feb 2013, 11:59 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
Glas a du wrote:In acting terms I'm asking myself "what's his motivation"
Please clarify about which you are asking:
Dan Cole?
His missus?
His knob?

by Standulstermen Thu 14 Feb 2013, 12:01 am

Have we missed the fact that Healy is able to play this weekend if selected for Leinster? Haven't read the entire thread but I have never heard of a ban being set from a week after event. Which would make this a 4 week ban. If so I think he might appeal

by Glas a du Thu 14 Feb 2013, 12:07 am

The logical extension of how the authorities deal with foul play means that if a player shots another on TV with multiple replays and angles he will get paid double for the next four matches, whilst a high tackle in a 12v14 half an hour each way grass roots social match with no linesmen amd one short sighted spectator may well result in a life time ban.

by PJHolybloke Thu 14 Feb 2013, 12:29 am

I played for a club that got heavily sanctioned for failing to exercise proper control of it's spectators.

Our home games were played on an open, local authority owned recreation ground where anybody could turn up and watch for free.

To hear the findings read out at the disciplinary hearing, you could be excused of thinking the incident had occurred on the touchline at Twickenham.

£500 fine and 3 games "behind closed doors", it was about 20 years ago so the £500 was a bit rich, however, it cost nearly twice that having to rent an enclosed pitch at a local teacher training college, and hire a couple of official "stewards" to make sure nobody else got in.

It damn near broke the club at a time when half a dozen punch ups a game used to break out without anyone, including the ref, taking a blind bit of interest.

Cole made a mischief, Healy made a naughty, Cole OK, Healy out for 4 weeks.

Sounds about right to me.

by Glas a du Thu 14 Feb 2013, 12:32 am

PropLyd got 6 (or 8) weeks for a stamp. It's double standards. The leniency should be greater at the grass roots level. Internationals are roll models, like it or not.

by PJHolybloke Thu 14 Feb 2013, 12:39 am

Totally agree Glas, except for the fact that Prop_Lyd's a Shedder and is therefore fortunate to escape a lynching. IMHO.

by Glas a du Thu 14 Feb 2013, 12:39 am

What if I told you the bloke he stamped on supported Bath Run

by PJHolybloke Thu 14 Feb 2013, 12:44 am

Hanging' s too good f'the bastud!

Flay him alive and dip his weeping husk in a cask of powdered sea Salt!

IMHO

by **George Carlin** Thu 14 Feb 2013, 6:23 am

376 posts about this. Amazing.

by Standulstermen Thu 14 Feb 2013, 8:05 am

He is goingto appeal according to the irish times

by maestegmafia Thu 14 Feb 2013, 8:13 am

I saw that.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2013/0214/1224330011536.html

If it works against him he will effectively be out for four weeks as the ban won't start until the appeal hearing is over. Unless Ireland follow the Premiership clubs method of suspending him prior to the result and then counting the suspension time into the ban afterwards meaning he could be available when Ireland need him in the last to games?

This will be seen as a surprising move by the English media.

That aside this is a great opportunity for Kilcoyne to show his worth.

by MrsP Thu 14 Feb 2013, 8:25 am

Glas a du wrote:PropLyd got 6 (or 8) weeks for a stamp. It's double standards. The leniency should be greater at the grass roots level. Internationals are roll models, like it or not.

My guess is that the "witnesses" at grass roots level are the same type of folks who were declaring that Healy had seized his opportunity to maim his opposite number by stamping so hard that he had actually cracked the earth's mantle let alone fractured both Cole's legs causing, not only a career ending injury, but the end of life as we know it.

Luckily they had TV cameras at the game. Maybe Prop should get a mate to video all his future matches.

Seriously though, I get your point. It does seem that the punishments are more severe for the lower levels of the game. I can understand it a bit as it is much harder to "police" the broad base of the pyramid.

by Glas a du Thu 14 Feb 2013, 8:37 am

No. The authorities hold the grass roots in contempt and the top players in awe. It's pathetic behaviour.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:11 am

Healy is a lucky boy to get 3 weeks. It makes a mockery of the rules since there was clear intent to hurt and injure Cole. He should had a 6-9 week ban IMO

by Mickado Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:14 am

I've never heard of a ban that starts a week after the incident happened, so it's effectively a 4 week ban.

by MrsP Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:23 am

It is strange.

The power to delay the start of a ban was supposed to be used to avoid someone serving their ban in the off season and therefore reducing the effect of the punishment.

It will be interesting to hear if the approach taken by the panel is deemed correct or not. They do seem to be trying to have their cake and eat it.

by geoff998rugby Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:25 am

Exactly the second match he misses is 4 weeks after the incident

by GunsGerms Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:35 am

maestegmafia wrote:I saw that.

This will be seen as a surprising move by the English media.

Does anyone actually pay any attention to the English media anymore.

by AlastairW Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:39 am

There is no 'English' media, it's 'British' media - unless you count those budget regional BBC channels.

by **George Carlin** Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:40 am

I don't think that this appeal looks very good for Healy (although perhaps the management have commanded that he appeals and the player has no choice).

He's already had 2 weeks knocked off the recommended term for a mid-range suspension (presumably for looking both sad and nice in his suit at the hearing Run

) - why does he think he deserves further leniency?

I have never, ever understood why bans are couched in terms of time rather than in terms of games missed. They know the player's forthcoming match schedule.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:41 am

maestegmafia wrote:I saw that.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2013/0214/1224330011536.html

If it works against him he will effectively be out for four weeks as the ban won't start until the appeal hearing is over. Unless Ireland follow the Premiership clubs method of suspending him prior to the result and then counting the suspension time into the ban afterwards meaning he could be available when Ireland need him in the last to games?

This will be seen as a surprising move by the English media.

That aside this is a great opportunity for Kilcoyne to show his worth.

Try as you do, you seem to find it impossible to avoid making snide comments.

by MrsP Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:45 am

George Carlin wrote:I don't think that this appeal looks very good for Healy (although perhaps the management have commanded that he appeals and the player has no choice).

He's already had 2 weeks knocked off the recommended term for a mid-range suspension (presumably for looking both sad and nice in his suit at the hearing ) - why does he think he deserves further leniency?

I have never, ever understood why bans are couched in terms of time rather than in terms of games missed. They know the player's forthcoming match schedule.

Maybe he is looking for clarification rather than leniency?

by maestegmafia Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:46 am

LondonTiger wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I saw that.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2013/0214/1224330011536.html

If it works against him he will effectively be out for four weeks as the ban won't start until the appeal hearing is over. Unless Ireland follow the Premiership clubs method of suspending him prior to the result and then counting the suspension time into the ban afterwards meaning he could be available when Ireland need him in the last to games?

This will be seen as a surprising move by the English media.

That aside this is a great opportunity for Kilcoyne to show his worth.

Try as you do, you seem to find it impossible to avoid making snide comments.

That's not snide in any way.

He will appeal according to the Irish press.

by Cyril Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:49 am

Why the heck are bans like this weeks and not matches?

It's just plain odd.

I could understand if it was a really serious offence that you ban someone for a year, but for this it should be (however many) matches.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:50 am

Introducing AP teams and this so called "English" press had no relevance. It's sole effect is to annoy english posters. Whether intentional or accidental it is a touch snide.

As to an appeal - Healy would be advised not to. The only way it would succeed is if the Irish management released enough starters to their province to enable them to claim that Healy would have played for Leinster.

by Mickado Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:54 am

MrsP wrote:It is strange.

The power to delay the start of a ban was supposed to be used to avoid someone serving their ban in the off season and therefore reducing the effect of the punishment.

It will be interesting to hear if the approach taken by the panel is deemed correct or not. They do seem to be trying to have their cake and eat it.

My understanding is, that they wanted to ban him for 2 matches, which is why they started the ban this week. But I'm not sure there's anything stopping him from playing for Leinster on Saturday (other than the fact that JS doesn't start players who aren't available for the entire training week). They should have just banned him for 4 weeks if they wanted him to miss 2 6nations games.

by GunsGerms Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:56 am

AlastairW wrote:There is no 'English' media, it's 'British' media - unless you count those budget regional BBC channels.

Thanks Al.

by maestegmafia Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:06 am

LondonTiger wrote:Introducing AP teams and this so called "English" press had no relevance. It's sole effect is to annoy english posters. Whether intentional or accidental it is a touch snide.

The reference is because the only home nation that uses this method of reducing the impact of time served while on suspension is the Premiership Clubs. The reference to the English press is because it is so, England is their priority, and they have treated this incident differently to the Irish press.

I would also say that the media interpretation in England has, in my opinion, unequivocally had an effect on the outcome of this hearing.

by GunsGerms Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:09 am

LondonTiger wrote:Introducing AP teams and this so called "English" press had no relevance. It's sole effect is to annoy english posters. Whether intentional or accidental it is a touch snide.

As to an appeal - Healy would be advised not to. The only way it would succeed is if the Irish management released enough starters to their province to enable them to claim that Healy would have played for Leinster.

LT the British press have a habit of over reacting and being a tad sensationalist. I find that this sometime times IMO rubs off on readers of such rags. Just my opinion. Irish press has their own biases too.

by MrsP Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:10 am

Thing is that they specify,

"However, the committee decided to implement IRB regulation 17.19.11 (b), which states the disciplinary committee “may defer the commencement of a suspension provided that the player is not scheduled to play (and will not be permitted to play) prior to the commencement of the suspension.”

So, you get a 3 week ban but it doesn't start for another week and you are not allowed to play this week.

Daft way to do it.

As Bikkies said, just make it a 4 week ban and be done with it.

Didn't they do a similar sort of thing too recently but in reverse.

Said a 2 week ban was too long so banned the player for a week even though there was no match the following week. Was that ROG?

Why make it so obtuse?

by maestegmafia Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:13 am

GunsGerms wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Introducing AP teams and this so called "English" press had no relevance. It's sole effect is to annoy english posters. Whether intentional or accidental it is a touch snide.

As to an appeal - Healy would be advised not to. The only way it would succeed is if the Irish management released enough starters to their province to enable them to claim that Healy would have played for Leinster.

LT the British press have a habit of over reacting and being a tad sensationalist. I find that this sometime times IMO rubs off on readers of such rags. Just my opinion. Irish press has their own biases too.

Welsh press are no angels either...! Andy Howells has apparently dug a tunnel between the cave like hole he resides in by night and the desk he occupys at the Western Mail, so that he never has to confront the Welsh Rugby loving public.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:18 am

The happiest outcome of this sordid affair is that England won the game. I blame Kidney for orchestrating a tactic that didn't work but nearly did due to incompetent refereeing - Healy should have been sent off making an England win more likely. By employing rough-house tactics to try and unsettle a very young and inexperienced England pack, didn't work. Healy probably took the brief beyond Kidney's plan, but this England team look to have a bit more about them, despite their youth, to be intimidated by a bit of thuggery from an older, gnarlier Irish pack.
Now bring on the French, I wonder how they are planning to bring the chariot to a halt? It won't be subtle if things go to form.

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