Cian Healy - cited

First topic message reminder :

In other news the Pope is a Catholic (for now at least).

Espnscrum has the hearing set for Wednesday. Predictions on a post card. He may well live to regret a few moments of madness.

I think the 'English' media may only stretch to reporting Healy's appeal. A column inch maybe.

I would expect more to be made of it by the rugby writers from Ireland's next opponents. It is they who stand to be affected most.

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Introducing AP teams and this so called "English" press had no relevance. It's sole effect is to annoy english posters. Whether intentional or accidental it is a touch snide.

The reference is because the only home nation that uses this method of reducing the impact of time served while on suspension is the Premiership Clubs. The reference to the English press is because it is so, England is their priority, and they have treated this incident differently to the Irish press.

I would also say that the media interpretation in England has, in my opinion, unequivocally had an effect on the outcome of this hearing.

The reference is incomplete - RFU is the only home union to award suspensions in games, not weeks. Healy would be facing a 3 game holiday instead of 2 on that basis, which surely is the intent of the IRB guidelines.

He's already struck lucky because of the rest weekend, it would be more of a travesty if he served a ban of a single game, effectively a 1 week sentence.

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Intentionally stamping on a joint and he takes a 3 week slap on the wrist, and last year Hartley got 8 weeks for putting a few dents in Ferris' finger when being fish hooked.

Utter Bullsh1t. Kian Stampy should be sitting out the whole 6N. Any calls of leniency of English players from here on in can go take a running jump.

Seriously Alastair. Firstly his name is Cian. Also no need to swap Stampy for his real surname which is funny enough when you consider what he did with his heel. Secondly how do you know what his intention was. Did you ask him?

Hartley got 8 weeks because he really is a scumbag and has many priors unlike Healy who has none. Really sometimes I feel this forum is just an outlet for some people to vent.

Don't see how you can argue Guns, Hartley bit a finger while being hooked and it didn't even puncture, Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked and has to run in to do that, then spends the rest of the half punching and swinging at players. And amusingly you call Hartley a thug but shrug off Healy's as "a rush of blood".

George Carlin wrote:376 posts about this. Amazing.

There were around 600 posts over several articles following Hartley nibbling Ferris's finger.

And I remember an Irish poster put up an article about Hartley being cited in the HC game v Ulster. Another by a Welsh guy.

And the English are supposed to be obsessed with this incident

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Introducing AP teams and this so called "English" press had no relevance. It's sole effect is to annoy english posters. Whether intentional or accidental it is a touch snide.

The reference is because the only home nation that uses this method of reducing the impact of time served while on suspension is the Premiership Clubs. The reference to the English press is because it is so, England is their priority, and they have treated this incident differently to the Irish press.

I would also say that the media interpretation in England has, in my opinion, unequivocally had an effect on the outcome of this hearing.

The reference is incomplete - RFU is the only home union to award suspensions in games, not weeks. Healy would be facing a 3 game holiday instead of 2 on that basis, which surely is the intent of the IRB guidelines.

He's already struck lucky because of the rest weekend, it would be more of a travesty if he served a ban of a single game, effectively a 1 week sentence.

Is the rfu that strict? Did Calum Clark not serve a significant proportion of his ban during the off season? I think they should have just made his ban 4weeks but they have made a rod for their own backs by basically taking a week off if the player admits it and another if he hass a clean record. That would bring it down to three which would mean one game. I have no issue with him missing the France game as it is deserved but the disciplinary procedures really need tightened up.

For instance I don't believe you should ever have time taken off for admitting it, especially not in a case like this when a blind man on a galloping horse can see what he did.

yappysnap wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Intentionally stamping on a joint and he takes a 3 week slap on the wrist, and last year Hartley got 8 weeks for putting a few dents in Ferris' finger when being fish hooked.

Utter Bullsh1t. Kian Stampy should be sitting out the whole 6N. Any calls of leniency of English players from here on in can go take a running jump.

Seriously Alastair. Firstly his name is Cian. Also no need to swap Stampy for his real surname which is funny enough when you consider what he did with his heel. Secondly how do you know what his intention was. Did you ask him?

Hartley got 8 weeks because he really is a scumbag and has many priors unlike Healy who has none. Really sometimes I feel this forum is just an outlet for some people to vent.

Don't see how you can argue Guns, Hartley bit a finger while being hooked and it didn't even puncture, Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked and has to run in to do that, then spends the rest of the half punching and swinging at players. And amusingly you call Hartley a thug but shrug off Healy's as "a rush of blood".

Yes Hartley is a proven thug and clearly Healy is nowhere near his level. He has a long list of indescretions to his name. Healy has stamped someone once. The so called punches are hardly worth mentioning.

Healy reacted to cheating, he overreacted but it was not "unprovoked" as in he was hardly just doing it for a laugh. If you open your eyes its fairly obvious he was trying to free the ball.

The whole procedure needs an overhaul tbh. Confusion over bans being served in weeks or games; the varying length of sentence for similar offences; the potential for deferring a ban (clarification on when this can be applied) and players committing an offence in an international, but serving the ban during domestic rugby only.

The last anomaly is a timing thing, but it needs to be looked at.

Healy's Stamp was an unexcusable cheap shot on a man who was prone and helpless.

Not much between his stamp and an eye gouge in my book.

I would have made an example of him.

GunsGerms wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Intentionally stamping on a joint and he takes a 3 week slap on the wrist, and last year Hartley got 8 weeks for putting a few dents in Ferris' finger when being fish hooked.

Utter Bullsh1t. Kian Stampy should be sitting out the whole 6N. Any calls of leniency of English players from here on in can go take a running jump.

Seriously Alastair. Firstly his name is Cian. Also no need to swap Stampy for his real surname which is funny enough when you consider what he did with his heel. Secondly how do you know what his intention was. Did you ask him?

Hartley got 8 weeks because he really is a scumbag and has many priors unlike Healy who has none. Really sometimes I feel this forum is just an outlet for some people to vent.

Don't see how you can argue Guns, Hartley bit a finger while being hooked and it didn't even puncture, Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked and has to run in to do that, then spends the rest of the half punching and swinging at players. And amusingly you call Hartley a thug but shrug off Healy's as "a rush of blood".

Yes Hartley is a proven thug and clearly Healy is nowhere near his level. He has a long list of indescretions to his name. Healy has stamped someone once. The so called punches are hardly worth mentioning.

Healy reacted to cheating, he overreacted but it was not "unprovoked" as in he was hardly just doing it for a laugh. If you open your eyes its fairly obvious he was trying to free the ball.

How did you actually see the incident through such a thick green mist and with only one eye to see with?
Your comments are laughable and you are making a complete idiot of yourself. Healy was caught out being a dangerous thug, in what was an orchestrated thuggish performance from an Ireland side that are better than that. It didn't work, he's been banned, end of.

GunsGerms wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Intentionally stamping on a joint and he takes a 3 week slap on the wrist, and last year Hartley got 8 weeks for putting a few dents in Ferris' finger when being fish hooked.

Utter Bullsh1t. Kian Stampy should be sitting out the whole 6N. Any calls of leniency of English players from here on in can go take a running jump.

Seriously Alastair. Firstly his name is Cian. Also no need to swap Stampy for his real surname which is funny enough when you consider what he did with his heel. Secondly how do you know what his intention was. Did you ask him?

Hartley got 8 weeks because he really is a scumbag and has many priors unlike Healy who has none. Really sometimes I feel this forum is just an outlet for some people to vent.

Don't see how you can argue Guns, Hartley bit a finger while being hooked and it didn't even puncture, Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked and has to run in to do that, then spends the rest of the half punching and swinging at players. And amusingly you call Hartley a thug but shrug off Healy's as "a rush of blood".

Yes Hartley is a proven thug and clearly Healy is nowhere near his level. He has a long list of indescretions to his name. Healy has stamped someone once. The so called punches are hardly worth mentioning.

Healy reacted to cheating, he overreacted but it was not "unprovoked" as in he was hardly just doing it for a laugh. If you open your eyes its fairly obvious he was trying to free the ball.

And if you'd open your eyes, you'd see that Healy clearly, intentionally stamped on an opponent's leg that was actually up in the air and not ptouching the ball. Healy did it because he was frustrated, two wrongs don't make a right and you shouldn't be defending his actions.

Guns,

Give it up. You appear to be hopelessly biased. Condoning what Healy did is just not on.

Im Irish and it's a huge blow to lose him but he got away light........................

John Cregan wrote:Guns,

Give it up. You appear to be hopelessly biased. Condoning what Healy did is just not on.

Im Irish and it's a huge blow to lose him but he got away light........................

He certainly did, about 3 - 5 weeks light in my opinion. I was sat watching with an Irish guy and he was genuinely disgusted.

MrsP wrote:Thing is that they specify,

"However, the committee decided to implement IRB regulation 17.19.11 (b), which states the disciplinary committee “may defer the commencement of a suspension provided that the player is not scheduled to play (and will not be permitted to play) prior to the commencement of the suspension.”

So, you get a 3 week ban but it doesn't start for another week and you are not allowed to play this week.

Daft way to do it.

As Bikkies said, just make it a 4 week ban and be done with it.

Didn't they do a similar sort of thing too recently but in reverse.

Said a 2 week ban was too long so banned the player for a week even though there was no match the following week. Was that ROG?

Why make it so obtuse?

Seems to me the intent was to ban healy for the next two Six nations matches. To do that, for some reason, the panel worded it strangely and got a bit caught up in their legal or rhetorical underwear.

I do agree that bans should always be in terms of games, not weeks. Would appear to make things simpler, no?

All true rugby fans, Irish or not were disgusted.

I get the impression that they go about things in reverse.

They decide how long a ban they want to give and then work back to try to justify that ban.

I'm not complaining about the length of the ban, just about the system which produced it.

Maybe Healy should have told the panel he was under 18 and he might have got away scot free?

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Intentionally stamping on a joint and he takes a 3 week slap on the wrist, and last year Hartley got 8 weeks for putting a few dents in Ferris' finger when being fish hooked.

Utter Bullsh1t. Kian Stampy should be sitting out the whole 6N. Any calls of leniency of English players from here on in can go take a running jump.

Seriously Alastair. Firstly his name is Cian. Also no need to swap Stampy for his real surname which is funny enough when you consider what he did with his heel. Secondly how do you know what his intention was. Did you ask him?

Hartley got 8 weeks because he really is a scumbag and has many priors unlike Healy who has none. Really sometimes I feel this forum is just an outlet for some people to vent.

Don't see how you can argue Guns, Hartley bit a finger while being hooked and it didn't even puncture, Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked and has to run in to do that, then spends the rest of the half punching and swinging at players. And amusingly you call Hartley a thug but shrug off Healy's as "a rush of blood".

Yes Hartley is a proven thug and clearly Healy is nowhere near his level. He has a long list of indescretions to his name. Healy has stamped someone once. The so called punches are hardly worth mentioning.

Healy reacted to cheating, he overreacted but it was not "unprovoked" as in he was hardly just doing it for a laugh. If you open your eyes its fairly obvious he was trying to free the ball.

How did you actually see the incident through such a thick green mist and with only one eye to see with?
Your comments are laughable and you are making a complete idiot of yourself. Healy was caught out being a dangerous thug, in what was an orchestrated thuggish performance from an Ireland side that are better than that. It didn't work, he's been banned, end of.

No I actually watched the video very closely a number of times before I commented on it. You are making statements that there is no way you can prove or back up with fact and you call me an idiot. Some examples:

"Orchestrated thuggish performance" - so you were in the Ireland dressing room prior to the match and know for a fact that it was prearranged to stamp on Cole's leg?

"the rest of the half punching and swinging at players" - this is a ficticious comment. He was caught swinging his arms once none of the "punches" appeared to land on any video footage I've seen.

"Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked" - it wasnt unprovoked because he was reacting to Coles cheating. Nobody is trying to claim that the reaction was just.

"Hartley bit a finger while being hooked" - Please provide some proof that Ferris was attenpting to fishhook Hartley. You havent a clue because there isnt any video evidence of this incident.

Hartley has a long list of citings. Fact. Healy doesnt. Fact.

Can you please at least think about what you are posting before you make news of the world type posts.

John Cregan wrote:Guns,

Give it up. You appear to be hopelessly biased. Condoning what Healy did is just not on.

Im Irish and it's a huge blow to lose him but he got away light........................

Go back to bed John, where have I condoned what Healy has done.

GunsGerms wrote:

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Intentionally stamping on a joint and he takes a 3 week slap on the wrist, and last year Hartley got 8 weeks for putting a few dents in Ferris' finger when being fish hooked.

Utter Bullsh1t. Kian Stampy should be sitting out the whole 6N. Any calls of leniency of English players from here on in can go take a running jump.

Seriously Alastair. Firstly his name is Cian. Also no need to swap Stampy for his real surname which is funny enough when you consider what he did with his heel. Secondly how do you know what his intention was. Did you ask him?

Hartley got 8 weeks because he really is a scumbag and has many priors unlike Healy who has none. Really sometimes I feel this forum is just an outlet for some people to vent.

Don't see how you can argue Guns, Hartley bit a finger while being hooked and it didn't even puncture, Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked and has to run in to do that, then spends the rest of the half punching and swinging at players. And amusingly you call Hartley a thug but shrug off Healy's as "a rush of blood".

Yes Hartley is a proven thug and clearly Healy is nowhere near his level. He has a long list of indescretions to his name. Healy has stamped someone once. The so called punches are hardly worth mentioning.

Healy reacted to cheating, he overreacted but it was not "unprovoked" as in he was hardly just doing it for a laugh. If you open your eyes its fairly obvious he was trying to free the ball.

How did you actually see the incident through such a thick green mist and with only one eye to see with?
Your comments are laughable and you are making a complete idiot of yourself. Healy was caught out being a dangerous thug, in what was an orchestrated thuggish performance from an Ireland side that are better than that. It didn't work, he's been banned, end of.

No I actually watched the video very closely a number of times before I commented on it. You are making statements that there is no way you can prove or back up with fact and you call me an idiot. Some examples:

"Orchestrated thuggish performance" - so you were in the Ireland dressing room prior to the match and know for a fact that it was prearranged to stamp on Cole's leg?

"the rest of the half punching and swinging at players" - this is a ficticious comment. He was caught swinging his arms once none of the "punches" appeared to land on any video footage I've seen.

"Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked" - it wasnt unprovoked because he was reacting to Coles cheating. Nobody is trying to claim that the reaction was just.

"Hartley bit a finger while being hooked" - Please provide some proof that Ferris was attenpting to fishhook Hartley. You havent a clue because there isnt any video evidence of this incident.

Hartley has a long list of citings. Fact. Healy doesnt. Fact.

Can you please at least think about what you are posting before you make news of the world type posts.

Oh so he was swinging his arms but no punchess connected. Well, that makes it all okay then doesn't it?

Standulstermen wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Introducing AP teams and this so called "English" press had no relevance. It's sole effect is to annoy english posters. Whether intentional or accidental it is a touch snide.

The reference is because the only home nation that uses this method of reducing the impact of time served while on suspension is the Premiership Clubs. The reference to the English press is because it is so, England is their priority, and they have treated this incident differently to the Irish press.

I would also say that the media interpretation in England has, in my opinion, unequivocally had an effect on the outcome of this hearing.

The reference is incomplete - RFU is the only home union to award suspensions in games, not weeks. Healy would be facing a 3 game holiday instead of 2 on that basis, which surely is the intent of the IRB guidelines.

He's already struck lucky because of the rest weekend, it would be more of a travesty if he served a ban of a single game, effectively a 1 week sentence.

Is the rfu that strict? Did Calum Clark not serve a significant proportion of his ban during the off season? I think they should have just made his ban 4weeks but they have made a rod for their own backs by basically taking a week off if the player admits it and another if he hass a clean record. That would bring it down to three which would mean one game. I have no issue with him missing the France game as it is deserved but the disciplinary procedures really need tightened up.

For instance I don't believe you should ever have time taken off for admitting it, especially not in a case like this when a blind man on a galloping horse can see what he did.

You're quite right about Calum Clark - from the Disciplinary report:

"He is, therefore, entitled to 50% discount from that entry point which leads me to conclude that the appropriate sanction is a suspension of 32 weeks. Since this is a long sanction it will run continuously through the summer vacation without a break."

Not quite sure of the relevance of a long sanction, but so be it. There also seems to be a bit of latitude at times - when Tuilagi was banned for his Ashton punches, the England v Baa-Baa game was accepted as one of his banweeks even though he was unlikely to play in it.

Just for Gun's' record, Healy is now a proven thug.
Like Hartley (who like a dangerous dog I'd let off the lash with extreme trepidation).

GunsGerms wrote:

John Cregan wrote:Guns,

Give it up. You appear to be hopelessly biased. Condoning what Healy did is just not on.

Im Irish and it's a huge blow to lose him but he got away light........................

Go back to bed John, where have I condoned what Healy has done.

"Reacting to Coles Cheating"..............that is the laughable part of your argument.................If Cole was performing a part of Riverdance on "the wrong side" he doesn't deserve to be stamped on, raked or whatever else certain elements of the rugby fraternity like to think is "part of the game"...............

Sometimes incidents are very black & white and this is one of them..................

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Introducing AP teams and this so called "English" press had no relevance. It's sole effect is to annoy english posters. Whether intentional or accidental it is a touch snide.

The reference is because the only home nation that uses this method of reducing the impact of time served while on suspension is the Premiership Clubs. The reference to the English press is because it is so, England is their priority, and they have treated this incident differently to the Irish press.

I would also say that the media interpretation in England has, in my opinion, unequivocally had an effect on the outcome of this hearing.

The reference is incomplete - RFU is the only home union to award suspensions in games, not weeks. Healy would be facing a 3 game holiday instead of 2 on that basis, which surely is the intent of the IRB guidelines.

He's already struck lucky because of the rest weekend, it would be more of a travesty if he served a ban of a single game, effectively a 1 week sentence.

Is the rfu that strict? Did Calum Clark not serve a significant proportion of his ban during the off season? I think they should have just made his ban 4weeks but they have made a rod for their own backs by basically taking a week off if the player admits it and another if he hass a clean record. That would bring it down to three which would mean one game. I have no issue with him missing the France game as it is deserved but the disciplinary procedures really need tightened up.

For instance I don't believe you should ever have time taken off for admitting it, especially not in a case like this when a blind man on a galloping horse can see what he did.

You're quite right about Calum Clark - from the Disciplinary report:

"He is, therefore, entitled to 50% discount from that entry point which leads me to conclude that the appropriate sanction is a suspension of 32 weeks. Since this is a long sanction it will run continuously through the summer vacation without a break."

Not quite sure of the relevance of a long sanction, but so be it. There also seems to be a bit of latitude at times - when Tuilagi was banned for his Ashton punches, the England v Baa-Baa game was accepted as one of his banweeks even though he was unlikely to play in it.

The worst bit about the Clark debacle is that the 50% reduction was based on lies told to the panel. There was no checking of those facts and NOTHING appears to have been done about that terrible injustice.

greytiger wrote:Just for Gun's' record, Healy is now a proven thug.
Like Hartley (who like a dangerous dog I'd let off the lash with extreme trepidation).

Fair enough in that case would you agree that Manu Tuilagi, Ben Youngs, Chris Ashton and Danny Care and Dylan Hartley are all thugs too?

Tuilagi - cited for a dnagerous tackle on Danny Care, punched Ashton in the face and involved in off field antics.
Ben Youngs - cited for kneeing Jamie Gibson in the face
Danny Care - four arrests including alleged sexual assault and drunk driving
Chris Ashton - at least three previous citings
Dylan Hartley - where do I start?

These are only the ones I know of.

In fact you could call at least half the list of potential lions thugs because most rugby players get cited at least once.

Jimpy wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Intentionally stamping on a joint and he takes a 3 week slap on the wrist, and last year Hartley got 8 weeks for putting a few dents in Ferris' finger when being fish hooked.

Utter Bullsh1t. Kian Stampy should be sitting out the whole 6N. Any calls of leniency of English players from here on in can go take a running jump.

Seriously Alastair. Firstly his name is Cian. Also no need to swap Stampy for his real surname which is funny enough when you consider what he did with his heel. Secondly how do you know what his intention was. Did you ask him?

Hartley got 8 weeks because he really is a scumbag and has many priors unlike Healy who has none. Really sometimes I feel this forum is just an outlet for some people to vent.

Don't see how you can argue Guns, Hartley bit a finger while being hooked and it didn't even puncture, Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked and has to run in to do that, then spends the rest of the half punching and swinging at players. And amusingly you call Hartley a thug but shrug off Healy's as "a rush of blood".

Yes Hartley is a proven thug and clearly Healy is nowhere near his level. He has a long list of indescretions to his name. Healy has stamped someone once. The so called punches are hardly worth mentioning.

Healy reacted to cheating, he overreacted but it was not "unprovoked" as in he was hardly just doing it for a laugh. If you open your eyes its fairly obvious he was trying to free the ball.

How did you actually see the incident through such a thick green mist and with only one eye to see with?
Your comments are laughable and you are making a complete idiot of yourself. Healy was caught out being a dangerous thug, in what was an orchestrated thuggish performance from an Ireland side that are better than that. It didn't work, he's been banned, end of.

No I actually watched the video very closely a number of times before I commented on it. You are making statements that there is no way you can prove or back up with fact and you call me an idiot. Some examples:

"Orchestrated thuggish performance" - so you were in the Ireland dressing room prior to the match and know for a fact that it was prearranged to stamp on Cole's leg?

"the rest of the half punching and swinging at players" - this is a ficticious comment. He was caught swinging his arms once none of the "punches" appeared to land on any video footage I've seen.

"Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked" - it wasnt unprovoked because he was reacting to Coles cheating. Nobody is trying to claim that the reaction was just.

"Hartley bit a finger while being hooked" - Please provide some proof that Ferris was attenpting to fishhook Hartley. You havent a clue because there isnt any video evidence of this incident.

Hartley has a long list of citings. Fact. Healy doesnt. Fact.

Can you please at least think about what you are posting before you make news of the world type posts.

Oh so he was swinging his arms but no punchess connected. Well, that makes it all okay then doesn't it?

Listen Guns, you're getting very confused mate. I think you're letting emotions rule over logic.

Firstly I didn't call you an idiot, I pointed out that by condoning Healy's actions you are making an idiot out of yourself.

Secondly, only one of the quotes you attributed to me come from my hand.

Thirdly, none of us were in the dressing room so no one can know anything for certain, all we can do is assess the evidence and give an opinion, trying to keep national prejudice to one side. It's that latter part that you are clearly struggling with.

In relation to the one quote you were correct in attributing to me, to it being "orchestrated", it was quite clear that I was not referring to that one incident but the strategy for the game as a whole. In 2011, the Irish pack made the English pack look like boys. It was rough, brutal and painful to watch as an England fan but great to watch as a fan of forward play. It seems obvious, Kidney tried the same tactics but this young English pack were up to it and Healy took umbrage, lost his head and well the less said the better.

Is it really so difficult to see the difference between explaining and excusing Healy's actions?

I think Guns is in agreement that nothing can justify stamping on a player's ankle but you can still explain what was going on which lead to that action. Still doesn't make the stamp right and I don't think Guns is saying that it does.

I suppose we can all be guilty of seeing or reading only what we expect to see..

yappysnap wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Intentionally stamping on a joint and he takes a 3 week slap on the wrist, and last year Hartley got 8 weeks for putting a few dents in Ferris' finger when being fish hooked.

Utter Bullsh1t. Kian Stampy should be sitting out the whole 6N. Any calls of leniency of English players from here on in can go take a running jump.

Seriously Alastair. Firstly his name is Cian. Also no need to swap Stampy for his real surname which is funny enough when you consider what he did with his heel. Secondly how do you know what his intention was. Did you ask him?

Hartley got 8 weeks because he really is a scumbag and has many priors unlike Healy who has none. Really sometimes I feel this forum is just an outlet for some people to vent.

Don't see how you can argue Guns, Hartley bit a finger while being hooked and it didn't even puncture, Healy stamps on Cole's ankle unprovoked and has to run in to do that, then spends the rest of the half punching and swinging at players. And amusingly you call Hartley a thug but shrug off Healy's as "a rush of blood".

But Healy's reason for entering the ruck was not to injure Dan Cole..!

Ferris fish hook. - seeing as its worm can opening time again. Hartley's body was trapped in a ruck. He had very limited mobility at that moment. Ferris did not. The only way that Hartley could have bitten Ferris's fingers were if they were in his face or in his mouth in the first place.

This isnt a way of trying to say that Hartley is pure as the driven snow - he got the ban and did the time. But you cant claim Ferris was that innocent in the situation either.

Healy - he lost it. He did a lot else in the match to convince me he is as good as the Irish fans say he is. But for that incident and for his general actions in the few minutes after he came across as out of control, and a card of any colour would have been a very good idea. That didnt happen and now hes got a ban and luckily so far there is no mention of injuries. So we can draw a line under it all. But if it happens again he now has 'previous' and should be treated much harder.

MrsP wrote:Is it really so difficult to see the difference between explaining and excusing Healy's actions?

I think Guns is in agreement that nothing can justify stamping on a player's ankle but you can still explain what was going on which lead to that action. Still doesn't make the stamp right and I don't think Guns is saying that it does.

I suppose we can all be guilty of seeing or reading only what we expect to see..

Thank you for actually reading my posts before commenting on them.

It’s become a bit of a pointless circular argument. The (shall we call them) anti Healy crowd base most of their argument on the very nature of the violent response (ie an ankle stamp) with all the baggage that carries. The (shall we call them) pro Healy crowd just don’t/won’t get that distinction – it’s pretty much a standard bit of rugby violence. End of meaningful debate. If it had been a gouge the distinction to other types of foul play would be more obvious. Some people put ankle stamping nearer to gouging, some nearer to a nose-tweaking. (And some real saddos like to make it an Irish/other versus England thing.) Anyhoo - it should have been 3 games (tests).

And bringing Hartley into it is the rugby forum equivalent of Godwin's Law (wiki it).

LiW

I'm not defending Healy. He deserves wha he got, but your paragraph onthe ferris incident is essentially jumping to conclusions based on no evidence or knowledge of the incident. Nice one

GunsGerms wrote:

MrsP wrote:Is it really so difficult to see the difference between explaining and excusing Healy's actions?

I think Guns is in agreement that nothing can justify stamping on a player's ankle but you can still explain what was going on which lead to that action. Still doesn't make the stamp right and I don't think Guns is saying that it does.

I suppose we can all be guilty of seeing or reading only what we expect to see..

Thank you for actually reading my posts before commenting on them.

Oh the irony..................

lostinwales wrote:Ferris fish hook. - seeing as its worm can opening time again. Hartley's body was trapped in a ruck. He had very limited mobility at that moment. Ferris did not. The only way that Hartley could have bitten Ferris's fingers were if they were in his face or in his mouth in the first place.

Conjecture. Why comment on something that you havent seen? Youre just guessing as to what happened.

maestegmafia wrote:

But Healy's reason for entering the ruck was not to injure Dan Cole..!

I am being pedantic - but technically Healy never entered the ruck - that would involve him pushing against someone. Instead he runs in, lifts his foot early and stamps downwards, then eventually pushing the leg backwards. If he had bound on the player standing over cole and then driven his foot backwards he would have entered the ruck and done nothing illegal.

As I said earlier in this thread I do not view it a pre-meditated rather than a red mist descending on an over-hyped player. He has received his ban. IKt is in line with previous hearings so anyone whining it is too short should keep schtum. Equally Healy and the Irish management should accept the ban as they did the charge of illegal play.

What many people are actually saying, and rightly so, though this point has not been discussed is that these events happened because Garces was a bloody awful referee.

There was no control of the breakdown and little of the scrum, both sides were pushing the boundaries and if he had acted in a stricter fashion as a more experienced referee would have, incidences like that caused by Cole and later Haskell would not have become the talking points of the game.

Standulstermen wrote:LiW

I'm not defending Healy. He deserves wha he got, but your paragraph onthe ferris incident is essentially jumping to conclusions based on no evidence or knowledge of the incident. Nice one

Agre with every word...peoples capacity to see into a crystal ball is amazing

No, NO, NO

the incident happened because Healy stamped. He had the option not to. He chose to do it. All the other players from both sides managed to cope with the opposition doing similar stuff without resorting to violence.

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

But Healy's reason for entering the ruck was not to injure Dan Cole..!

I am being pedantic - but technically Healy never entered the ruck - that would involve him pushing against someone. Instead he runs in, lifts his foot early and stamps downwards, then eventually pushing the leg backwards. If he had bound on the player standing over cole and then driven his foot backwards he would have entered the ruck and done nothing illegal.

As I said earlier in this thread I do not view it a pre-meditated rather than a red mist descending on an over-hyped player. He has received his ban. IKt is in line with previous hearings so anyone whining it is too short should keep schtum. Equally Healy and the Irish management should accept the ban as they did the charge of illegal play.

Finally some sense, everything you have said is largely based on fact except the over-hyped part which is opinion because its impossible to quantify. I also agree that the ban shouldnt be appealed.

apologies, meant overpsyched not hyped (still a matter of opinion I agree - but he just looked too manic on sunday)

LondonTiger wrote:No, NO, NO

the incident happened because Healy stamped. He had the option not to. He chose to do it. All the other players from both sides managed to cope with the opposition doing similar stuff without resorting to violence.

You obviously think Healy's actions were premeditated. You think he entered the ruck to stamp on Cole no more no less?

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:No, NO, NO

the incident happened because Healy stamped. He had the option not to. He chose to do it. All the other players from both sides managed to cope with the opposition doing similar stuff without resorting to violence.

You obviously think Healy's actions were premeditated. You think he entered the ruck to stamp on Cole no more no less?

I wrote what I thought about 6 posts ago read it if you want.

I feel people should be responsible for their actions -but you seem to think that Cole and Garces are to blame instead?

I think we can all agree that a red mist descended and Healy behaved badly just as the red mist descended over some posters on here who through national allegiance tried to condone his actions, but in the end sanity prevailed. Healy has got his just deserts but is no monster and the same can be said of those posters, just that sometimes emotions get the better of us.

Standulstermen wrote:LiW

I'm not defending Healy. He deserves wha he got, but your paragraph onthe ferris incident is essentially jumping to conclusions based on no evidence or knowledge of the incident. Nice one

No its not there was a video available at the time. You cant see the bite obviously but you can see the general situation -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfJu3oSBx0M

I hadnt quite remembered it right but it looks like Hartley starts jackling (or whatever) Ferris comes to clear him out by grabbing him around the neck/head and pulling him down. Best then flips the guy next to Hartley over Hartley's back to make the ball available to the Irish scrum half. Nobody knows what actually happened with the bite except for Hartley and Ferris - but my comment about Hartley being unable to bite anything that isnt in his face or mouth stands.

I'd also add that it was Ferris's right hand that got bitten - the one he can move as is shown.

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:I think we can all agree that a red mist descended and Healy behaved badly just as the red mist descended over some posters on here who through national allegiance tried to condone his actions, but in the end sanity prevailed. Healy has got his just deserts but is no monster and the same can be said of those posters, just that sometimes emotions get the better of us.

A bit like when you resorted to name calling?

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:I think we can all agree that a red mist descended and Healy behaved badly just as the red mist descended over some posters on here who through national allegiance tried to condone his actions, but in the end sanity prevailed. Healy has got his just deserts but is no monster and the same can be said of those posters, just that sometimes emotions get the better of us.

Having read through the thread I don't think anyone has condoned his actions.

And maes rather than trying to score cheap shots against England, you might try mustering your limited talents and focus and how Wales can drag themselves from the deep mire they now find themselves in.

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:No, NO, NO

the incident happened because Healy stamped. He had the option not to. He chose to do it. All the other players from both sides managed to cope with the opposition doing similar stuff without resorting to violence.

You obviously think Healy's actions were premeditated. You think he entered the ruck to stamp on Cole no more no less?

I wrote what I thought about 6 posts ago read it if you want.

I feel people should be responsible for their actions -but you seem to think that Cole and Garces are to blame instead?

I certainly think Garces is highly accountable for the way the game was played. It was always going to be a game of fiery competition, but his laisez-faire attitude to the basic rules of offside, not releasing players and balls at the breakdown meant players were taking the situation into their own hands.

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:I think we can all agree that a red mist descended and Healy behaved badly just as the red mist descended over some posters on here who through national allegiance tried to condone his actions, but in the end sanity prevailed. Healy has got his just deserts but is no monster and the same can be said of those posters, just that sometimes emotions get the better of us.

Can you show me where one Irish fan tried to condone Healy's actions?

MrsP wrote:

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:I think we can all agree that a red mist descended and Healy behaved badly just as the red mist descended over some posters on here who through national allegiance tried to condone his actions, but in the end sanity prevailed. Healy has got his just deserts but is no monster and the same can be said of those posters, just that sometimes emotions get the better of us.

Can you show me where one Irish fan tried to condone Healy's actions?

There has only been one fan, View, who thought stamping on anyone was good.

No one else.

Unfortunately the majority of the English fans, pundits and media seem to think Cole's actions were premeditated and of vicious intent.

Irish fans have treated this responsibly and fairly.

GunsGerms wrote:

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:I think we can all agree that a red mist descended and Healy behaved badly just as the red mist descended over some posters on here who through national allegiance tried to condone his actions, but in the end sanity prevailed. Healy has got his just deserts but is no monster and the same can be said of those posters, just that sometimes emotions get the better of us.

A bit like when you resorted to name calling?

Yet again you blunder headlong in to farce. You praise someone for reading your post but seem to lack the ability to read anyone else's.