England vs Italy: Match thread

by nathan Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

So what are peoples predictions? It's snowing in Leicester, so I presume similar weather at Twickenham?

I have a bad feeling about this game and don't think England will run away with it as many are predicting.

by Casartelli Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:53 am

glamorganalun wrote:I can't understand how England got away with not supporting their body weight over the tackled player thoughout the game but got away with it.

Lol, they've been doing that since 1998!

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:53 am

nathan wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:What an interesting final game coming up Wales need to win by 8, not 48 as expected.

Expected by who exactly?

Pretty much anyone tbf, the bookies point spread was in the high 20's for this game. This is one of the closest ever games between italy and england, most games england win by around 30.

Historically this was a terrible and unusual result for england, its not unreasonable to expect in a year when england are strong that theyd do better than this

It was just poor.

by Barney McGrew did it Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:53 am

Disappointingly Flood and Care didn't take their chances (a bit like Hartley didn't last week).

We need Farrell back, B Youngs, a no 8 (Haskell or Morgan). And after the 6N SL has to sort the back 3 out or he'll have lost it for me.

by RuggerBoy Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:53 am

Not wishing this to sound like a wind-up but based on what I've just seen I feel Wales should have nothing to fear next week. I would be quite happy if England brought that game to Cardiff next week.

by SecretFly Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:54 am

Casartelli wrote:As a neutral, I think rugby was the winner today. Italy were fearless and played some of the most positive rugby of the 6N so far. Fantastic underdog performance but England never really looked like losing.

I thought so even in the first half but second half kinda changed my mind.

I think England expected to win today working off third gear...retain energy levels for next week and still win comfortably. I think the plan was almost scuppered.

by Mr Bounce Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:54 am

Exactly the sort of game England needed. They played badly and realised they were beatable.

Hopefully this will give us the best possible game next weekend: A resurgant Wales against an England that have had a scare and will play to the best of their abilities.

May the best team win.

by LeinsterFan4life Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:55 am

Clancy cost italy the game. England were constantly infringing at the breakdown

by EnglishReign Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:55 am

Oh dear! Gutted we couldn't pull away and stick Burns on for 20. Flood was very average, I can see why Farrell is preferred now.

Still, best game to put in your worst performance.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:55 am

Well played Italy! England need to up the aggression. How many turnovers did England win? Not enough. Against the ABs we were so effective at winning the turnover. What's happened?

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:56 am

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Disappointingly Flood and Care didn't take their chances (a bit like Hartley didn't last week).

We need Farrell back, B Youngs, a no 8 (Haskell or Morgan). And after the 6N SL has to sort the back 3 out or he'll have lost it for me.

Largely agree. Goode just lacks oomph and Brown was caught in defence again. Ashton got one good chance in the game. Flood did fine though IMO.

by majesticimperialman Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:56 am

Well what a relief for England. I never did think that England would win by a cricket score like some posters on here did. Italy could be disapointed for not putting the game away when they had the chance.

England will need to play a different game next week against Wales.

Looking forward to next week and Wales in Cardiff. Will the roof be open or shut? Will it make a difference to how the game is played?

A good win for England.

But well played to Italy for making a real game of it.

by Wi11 Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:57 am

Goode had a shocker. Dodgy tackler, messed up several attacks when coming into the line and was poor under the high ball. That's a high price to pay for his (admittedly reliable) defensive positioning.

by Morgannwg Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:58 am

They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

by thebluesmancometh Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:58 am

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:Well played Italy! England need to up the aggression. How many turnovers did England win? Not enough. Against the ABs we were so effective at winning the turnover. What's happened?

Oh come on, we all know what happened you just don't want to admit it Rolling Eyes

by Taylorman Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:58 am

All I can see is Gatland sitting there wondering which of the 60-70 players on the list in front of him will actually get over the line.

25 penalties and 4 tries in 3 matches this round. A try every hour. Next week should be interesting though one for purists and fans only. picard

by glamorganalun Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:59 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
nathan wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:What an interesting final game coming up Wales need to win by 8, not 48 as expected.

Expected by who exactly?

Pretty much anyone tbf, the bookies point spread was in the high 20's for this game. This is one of the closest ever games between italy and england, most games england win by around 30.

Historically this was a terrible and unusual result for england, its not unreasonable to expect in a year when england are strong that theyd do better than this

It was just poor.

Thankyou, you beat me to it, even C Woodward stated England would win by 5 tries.

by wales606 Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:59 am

Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

Yep, then Inverdale said 7 would level it (and Wales have more tries), but I don't think that was right

by Coleman Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:00 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Clancy cost italy the game. England were constantly infringing at the breakdown

by Duty281 Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:00 am

Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

England's points difference is +43.
Wales' points difference is +29.

So yes, 8 points or more will do it for Wales. A 7 point win will make it level on points difference and I have no idea what happens then.

by LeinsterFan4life Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:00 am

Taylorman, this 6N has been truely abysmal.

by wales606 Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:01 am

Taylorman wrote:All I can see is Gatland sitting there wondering which of the 60-70 players on the list in front of him will actually get over the line.

25 penalties and 4 tries in 3 matches this round. A try every hour. Next week should be interesting though one for purists and fans only.

And only 2 of those 4 tries came from B&I teams, and both came from forwards.

Italy were the most creative team this weekend

by Hood83 Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:01 am

Barritt, Goode, Ashton, Wood -and plenty more do not deserve to play next week. Mako cannot scrummage well enough to start against a strong Welsh scrum.

Scrum - No idea, but poorer than Wales'

Lineout - Ok, just about.

Carrying - Pish poor - no supporting runners, the only player in credit Haskell despite what Jiffy says.

Rucking - Excellent...for 10 minutes.

Defence - Breached continually.

Kicking - Aimless, the chase was terrible.

Running lines - A joke, absolutely terrible. Flood as too deep, but Farrell has been too all tournament.

We need Morgan or B Vunipola back at 8 quickly. Brown at 15 and somehow to find 2 international class wingers asap. Barritt? No, sorry, when he doesn't defend, he offers nothing.

Some good players in this team, but not enough yet.

by glamorganalun Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:01 am

Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

Yes, but Wales have to win first.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:01 am

Taylorman wrote:All I can see is Gatland sitting there wondering which of the 60-70 players on the list in front of him will actually get over the line.

25 penalties and 4 tries in 3 matches this round. A try every hour. Next week should be interesting though one for purists and fans only.

World cup final was a real classic though wasnt it

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:01 am

thebluesmancometh wrote:
A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:Well played Italy! England need to up the aggression. How many turnovers did England win? Not enough. Against the ABs we were so effective at winning the turnover. What's happened?

Oh come on, we all know what happened you just don't want to admit it

I know I am going to regret this - what's your theory bluesman?

by Morgannwg Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:02 am

glamorganalun wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

Yes, but Wales have to win first.

Hence why I said win. It's quite cleary written in English.

by EnglishReign Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:02 am

Care never plays well when he starts. Always looks good off the bench though. Youngs and Farrell need to start next week, hopefully Morgan too.

by trebellbobaggins Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:03 am

If eng were plus 7 after yesterday, why are they still pus 7 now rather than than plus 14?

I was thinking that it was 15 Wales needed?

by GLove39 Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:03 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Clancy cost italy the game. England were constantly infringing at the breakdown

Not forgetting he totally c****d up giving the forward pass against Italy on Sergio's break. And even ignored his touch judge furious

by Barney McGrew did it Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:04 am

Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

I'm bitterly disappointed you haven't congratulated England on a hard-fought win yet. I do hope it's down to laziness and not arrogance.

And just to show my heart's in the right place commiserations for next week, I'm sure you'll do very well.

by Morgannwg Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:04 am

Duty281 wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

England's points difference is +43.
Wales' points difference is +29.

So yes, 8 points or more will do it for Wales. A 7 point win will make it level on points difference and I have no idea what happens then.

It goes to tries scored/conceded, that gives Wales the advantage. Thanks for clearing that up by the way.

by Morgannwg Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:04 am

Barney McGrew did it wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

I'm bitterly disappointed you haven't congratulated England on a hard-fought win yet. I do hope it's down to laziness and not arrogance.

And just to show my heart's in the right place commiserations for next week, I'm sure you'll do very well.

by nathan Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:05 am

Barney McGrew did it wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

I'm bitterly disappointed you haven't congratulated England on a hard-fought win yet. I do hope it's down to laziness and not arrogance.

And just to show my heart's in the right place commiserations for next week, I'm sure you'll do very well.

Lol, that's a point mort, where's the congratulations on the win???

by majesticimperialman Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:05 am

Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

Yes it is true.

If Wales win by 7 it goes on points difference, if the points difference is the same, then it goes on tries scored.

If their are the same tries scored then it becomes a draw.

I think.

by wales606 Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:05 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:If eng were plus 7 after yesterday, why are they still pus 7 now rather than than plus 14?

I was thinking that it was 15 Wales needed?

8pt Wales win = +8 Wales and -8 England

by trebellbobaggins Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:05 am

Oh, of course it will. Duh. Forgetting each plus point is a negative for the other.

Wales should have this then at home. England playing like that are in trouble.

by LeinsterFan4life Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:07 am

Parrise hands down best 8 in world rugby!

by trebellbobaggins Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:07 am

I thought he was brilliant. Italy as a whole played so well.

by EnglishReign Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:07 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:If eng were plus 7 after yesterday, why are they still pus 7 now rather than than plus 14?

I was thinking that it was 15 Wales needed?

As it's Eng v Wal, every point Wales get is taken off of England's PD. Hence only 8 point margin needed.

by wales606 Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:08 am

Correction : Wales have to win by 7, without conceeding 2 more tries than they score (3 for England to win outright)

by trebellbobaggins Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:08 am

Yup thanks. I was being stupid.

by EnglishReign Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:09 am

No joking, I can see a Welsh win by 2 or 3.

by Knowsit17 Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:11 am

nathan wrote:
Barney McGrew did it wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

I'm bitterly disappointed you haven't congratulated England on a hard-fought win yet. I do hope it's down to laziness and not arrogance.

And just to show my heart's in the right place commiserations for next week, I'm sure you'll do very well.

Lol, that's a point mort, where's the congratulations on the win???

Are the congrats in order first or perhaps some humble pie for starters?

We'll smash Italy and then smash Wales (probably won't beat Wales by quite as many as we're away)

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:11 am

Well Massi and Parisse have gone for England over Wales. Hope it's not a poisoned chalice.

by aitchw Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:11 am

Thank you and well done Italy. You put us under the cosh today and tested us more than anyone else yet this tournament. We needed that and it will have done us more good than an easy victory would have done in preparation for next week.

Wales will have no fears but they know they have things to iron out as well. It will be an immense game next week for us, Wales and Ireland because if Italy bring the same to that game it's going to be tough.

by nathan Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:12 am

I really have no idea on how to call the next game, if we play like that we'll lose for certain. Thought Care didn't play well, Flood wasn't too happy about.

Thought t. Youngs carried well and his line out throwing was spot on (never normally gets a mention when it goes well) I do hope Morgan is back as we really need more carriers against the big Wales backs.

by nathan Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:14 am

Knowsit17 wrote:
nathan wrote:
Barney McGrew did it wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:They say Wales need to win by 8 points to take the championship. Is this true?

I'm bitterly disappointed you haven't congratulated England on a hard-fought win yet. I do hope it's down to laziness and not arrogance.

And just to show my heart's in the right place commiserations for next week, I'm sure you'll do very well.

Lol, that's a point mort, where's the congratulations on the win???

Are the congrats in order first or perhaps some humble pie for starters?

We'll smash Italy and then smash Wales (probably won't beat Wales by quite as many as we're away)

I think you should read the first post on this thread then come back....

by Mad for Chelsea Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:17 am

out of interest, when was the last time England lost by seven points or more? second test in SA? (can't remember the exact score but seem to remember it was comfortable for SA).

on today's game, England were OK in the first half but butchered a few chances, then dreadful in the next 20 minutes before defending pretty solidly in the final quarter. Care had a good enough first 20 but then faded out of the game completely while Flood tried a bit too hard and just doesn't bring the control that Farell does. Vunipola carried well, and scrummaged OK. Youngs did enough to start over Hartley for me, carried very well, and his line-out work wasn't too bad. We could do with a bit more bulk in the backrow, so hopefully Morgan will be fit next week.

by Taffineastbourne Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:18 am

Sir Clive made me chuckle.Before the game he predicted 5 tries for Ingerland and after the game he said it was always going to be a tough game.PratusMaximus !!

by Knowsit17 Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:19 am

Not aimed at you nathan. The poster who wrote that quote knows very well who they are and will probably read over this thread at some point, though I don't expect a direct response as per. Such a recent post I simply couldn't resist unearthing in the face of today, the irony is too sweet to say no to.

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