England vs Italy: Match thread

[nathan]

First topic message reminder :

So what are peoples predictions? It's snowing in Leicester, so I presume similar weather at Twickenham?

I have a bad feeling about this game and don't think England will run away with it as many are predicting.

[Barney McGrew did it]

Bit of a pattern with erstwhile #1 players: Hartley, Flood & DC failed to take their chances. DC got very rattled under pressure and his sniping runs are only good...when they’re good. Otherwise he’s not doing the basics quite well enough. It seems that playing about with the selection unsettles England.

SL has a blind-spot at no 8 and the back 3 that I’m beginning to find worrying.

However, for all the pre-game talk, England were complacent – something SL has to take some responsibility for. If England had worked to dominate the game by doing the basics well, we’d have won the game with less effort, less desperation, and maybe finished with more left in the tank for next week.

My everlasting image will be the butchered try in the 1st half with half the team on the overlap, and Flood trying to ‘power’ over the line. SL should have that on a loop playing 24/7 til next weekend – truly clueless and the worst example of its type this 6N.

[GunsGerms]

So many pundits and fans talked about putting minimum 30 points on Italy. Why talk yourselves up so much? I know England are accustomed to thrashing Italy but this isnt a bad Italy side and they have played some good stuff in this championship.

Have England left the door open a little too wide for Wales? Set for a cracking finale.

[damage_13]

Was anyone else cheering Italy on in the last 10mins?

Our Backs play like KP in the cricket...only bothered against the big boys.

creativity in centres absent, whilst Flood did alright looking for gaps, I saw nothing from 36. Ashton to be dropped for Strettle, but I really want Brown to play FB.

what a dismal performance

[GunsGerms]

Was anyone else cheering Italy on in the last 10mins?

Our Backs play like KP in the cricket...only bothered against the big boys.

creativity in centres absent, whilst Flood did alright looking for gaps, I saw nothing from 36. Ashton to be dropped for Strettle, but I really want Brown to play FB.

what a dismal performance

Dont think the England centres have been particularly creative all 6 nations at all. It hasnt really been their tactic. England have scored 5 tries through Ashton, 12x3, Parling, Care and Tuilagi. However, given that four of those tries were in the first match v Scotland I think its fair to say England have been a little impotent in the backs and if they win this 6N it will be through excellent goal kicking.

Indeed Scotland and Wales have scored more tries, Ireland the same amount and Italy and France just one less.

[beshocked]

Gunsgerms we talked ourselves because there were expectations that had to be met. I think the average aggregate of a match vs Italy at Twickenham has been 48-11.

England have never lost to Italy. England simply did not perform well enough and as you say probably were too complacent.

A loss in Wales will still be a loss even if even it's less than 7.

damage 13 yes I did cheer for Italy a bit - they showed more heart and fight. Plus they actually seemed to have a gameplan!

[aitchw]

I said before the game that Italy with Parisse are always a problem and amongst a number of Italians who really manned up Orquera got his form back crucially. That was a performance that deserved more than it got so well done. Ireland will have to play better than they have to avoid the spoon if France put in a slightly better performance.

No-one looked great in this England performance and I'm afraid it's time to make some changes. We have to assume the MS will be closed if the weather threatens to mess the day up so time for some runners on the wings. I haven't liked the out of position selections but feel it's almost too late to really carve things up for a final crunch match but I would rather go down in style than lose with a turgid performance. England got a reality check, one that Lancs will respond to I hope. Have to wait and see what the injury count is going to be before making any prediction other than right now Wales have to be in the driving seat but not by much.

[lostinwales]

36 didnt really have a chance to do anything. Tuilagi never got the ball in any space (credit to the Italians / bad mark to whoever was passing to him) Still looked a handful but was effectively nullified. Barritt had probably his worst game for England. I have to remember he has been very good for most of this tournament because based on yesterday I'd gladly loose him (same for Goode). Flood kept either running for gaps and not quite making it or throwing telegraphed passes.

There was that feeling that they didnt have to work for it. They started off looking fantastic and making things look easy- but not scoring the points. On another day they might have got an early breakthrough and ended up scoring a hat full but those 'other days' are just that. The defense also went downhill. 1st half the line speed and aggressive tackling had Italy in all sorts of trouble when they had the ball. 2nd half that intensity all but disappeared, that or the Italians worked out something to stop it as their ball retention was excellent and their runners looked really hard to put down.

England can and will play better. I am hoping its next week. Wales still look like a bunch of talented individuals rather than a team, and up til yesterday England always looked like a team

[GunsGerms]

Ireland will have to play better than they have to avoid the spoon if France put in a slightly better performance.

For Ireland to get the spoon France will have to beat Scotland by a big enough score unless Italy manage to beat Ireland by a big score.

As there is a points difference of 23 to make up if France win by 12 points and Italy beat Ireland by 12 then Ireland get the spoon. Ireland are one of only two teams not to have lost to Italy in the 6 nations though so if we do lose I cant see Italy winning by too much and on form its unlikely France will beat Scotland by 20 plus but you never know, stranger things have happened.

Either way only Ireland, Italy or France can finish bottom.

[aitchw]

France odds on but as you say stranger things have happened. I think there is a chance of France getting that result but a slim one. Ireland are looking lost and Italy playing with some pride and skill twice and they will be at home with some fanatical support. It's a scalp they would dearly love to take.

[GunsGerms]

France odds on but as you say stranger things have happened. I think there is a chance of France getting that result but a slim one. Ireland are looking lost and Italy playing with some pride and skill twice and they will be at home with some fanatical support. It's a scalp they would dearly love to take.

I'd say Italy are favorites to get the spoon.

Scotland havent won in Paris in a long long time and simply cant see them winning there this time. Therefore, it would be a stretch to say France are odds on to get the spoon.

Italy have never won v Ireland in the 6N so Ireland should be favorites to win that game.

I think the odds will probably be on Italy to get the spoon with Ireland second favorites.

[SecretFly]

The odds won't matter of course when the game comes around.

If Italy play for 80, like they've been showing they can...and Ireland play for 40, which is about the only number they seem to get to these days, then Italy truly are in with a good shout of winning.

Ireland have to stop playing around and start playing for 80 minutes, like a professional team at International level does.

Ireland and England are the last two sides for Italy to beat in their 6N history. We've given enough ground this season in pride. Surely the players know that keeping even that record against Italy should be enough motivation to keep going for 80.

[GunsGerms]

The odds won't matter of course when the game comes around.

If Italy play for 80, like they've been showing they can...and Ireland play for 40, which is about the only number they seem to get to these days, then Italy truly are in with a good shout of winning.

Ireland have to stop playing around and start playing for 80 minutes, like a professional team at International level does.

Ireland and England are the last two sides for Italy to beat in their 6N history. We've given enough ground this season in pride. Surely the players know that keeping even that record against Italy should be enough motivation to keep going for 80.

The Ireland Italy match is a sell out and the biggest crowd that Italy have had so far at home in the 6N this year because of the number of travelling Irish fans. Basically because the rugby wives prefer Rome to Edinburgh or Paris. Anyway Ireland should be quite well supported and it will be a very important match for Ireland in many ways.

Should win because Ireland have hammered Italy in their last two meetings but in no way a given.

[Sponsored content]