How Many World Class Players are there in your National team.

First topic message reminder :

Lets define the often maligned, much used phrase "World Class" as being a player who is in the top three in their position in World rugby.

There may well be players recently retired or overlooked by national selectors that you rate in the best of the best.

As I said above, Gray can still make it, he's still young, but he isn't in the bracket of the top locks in the world. He needed to be in the Lions 1st XV to prove himself, and he didn't make it. Time is on his side though.

This thread is fast turning into how many world class players are actually out there let alone in your national team. I thought there were loads. McCaw doesn't even make the cut for me at the moment in terms of form and fitness. I want to take the blue pill and breathe in the false air of the matrix. This real world is scaring the bejeezus out of me!

funnyExiledScot wrote:As I said above, Gray can still make it, he's still young, but he isn't in the bracket of the top locks in the world. He needed to be in the Lions 1st XV to prove himself, and he didn't make it. Time is on his side though.

Without a doubt, the rapidly improving Scottish squad around him will definitely help propell him forwards.

I think the criteria for a world class player in one country is not the same as another.....

I rate Irish players as world class if they can execute a garryowen as well against the tri nations as they can against the other celts.

maestegmafia wrote:

123456789 wrote:In the case of second row is being in the top six sufficient if there are two starting spots? If so I would say Richie Gray would definitely be in it, he is the best ball carrying second row in the world undoubtedly  but he always seems to come to the end of a ruck and lean on it or fall over. Hogg has the ability to be the best in the world in his position but isn't there yet, and Ross Rennie and Ross Ford were amongst the best in the world before they got injured and lost form and it remains to be seen if they can reach that level again.

Gray certainly shows the potential but was selected behind POC, AWJ and Geoff Parling for the Lions. I am sure his time will come, he has the talent, I am a huge fan. But for me he is on the periphery of top NH players and when you add lads like Etzebeth and Whitlock to the equation he drops a bit further down my personal list.

I think Parling is one of the most overrated players, he is often defined as a lineout technician which is what all average second rows are branded as, he's a good player but one in the Kellock and Borthwick bracket rather than POC and AWJ.

rodders wrote:I think the criteria for a world class player in one country is not the same as another.....

I rate Irish players as world class if they can execute a garryowen as well against the tri nations as they can against the other celts.

Like Sexton's beautifully weighted kick for George North from inside his 22 in the third test...!

maestegmafia wrote:

rodders wrote:I think the criteria for a world class player in one country is not the same as another.....

I rate Irish players as world class if they can execute a garryowen as well against the tri nations as they can against the other celts.

Like Sexton's beautifully weighted kick for George North from inside his 22 in the third test...!

Exactly Maesteg...world class indeed!

rodders wrote:I think the criteria for a world class player in one country is not the same as another.....

I rate Irish players as world class if they can execute a garryowen as well against the tri nations as they can against the other celts.

Agreed. In fact if I catch a glimpse of any of the Scotland players looking vaguely competent against Italy I tend to pin the "world class" badge on them....

I put the game on again the other day as we had friends from Australia staying and I couldn't find where the recording of the Ashes went...!

Anyhow that chip was sublime, Sexton was exuding class, particularly in the final test. He looked debased to be taken off, rightly so.

awj had a good lions tour and i would be happy for him to be Welsh captain . is he world class . not yet perhaps but this is his year

For Wales.

Halfpenny
North
Roberts
Warburton
AWJ
A Jones

For wing and SR are we saying best 3 in each slot or best 3 for the two slots together?

Norfolklass wrote:For Wales.

Halfpenny
North
Roberts
Warburton
AWJ
A Jones

NL,

Going by the original criteria of in the top 3 in the World then I wouldn't have Roberts, Warburton or AWJ. If you use the criteria that they can hold their own on the world stage and not look out of their depth/comfortable at that level then yes.

If your country has the best rugby team in the World, then arent the individuals players within that team playing at a higher level than just the other usual run of the mill World Class players?

aucklandlaurie wrote:If your country has the best rugby team in the World, then arent the individuals players within that team playing at a higher level than just the other usual run of the mill World Class players?

Almost certainly. But on their day or on paper it could be different. 

The ABs dont play on a day or on paper, they play on a rugby ground.

aucklandlaurie wrote:If your country has the best rugby team in the World, then arent the individuals players within that team playing at a higher level than just the other usual run of the mill World Class players?

Not really.

Even the All Blacks could be improved. Possibly Genia at scrum half or North on the wing?

1.Healy, Corbs, Mtawarira
2.Du Plessis, A Strauss, Moore
3.Jones, Franks, Cole
4.Etzebeth, Wyn Jones, Gray
5.O'Connell, Horwill, Whitelock
6.Lobbe, Alberts, O'Brien - If Ferris can get fit I'd have him there
7.McCaw, Hooper, Tipuric - Pocock would come in if fit and on form
8.Read, Parrise, Picamoles

9.Genia, Fotuali'i, Pienaar
10.Carter, Cruden, Sexton

11.Savea, North, Ioane
12.Fofana, Nonu, Roberts
13.Smith, AAC, Davies
14.Habana, Jane, Bowe
15.Dagg, Beale, Halfpenny

Those would be my choices but given the nature of these threads I expect many will disagree. There are a fair few choices which were borderline in my mind (Moore, Gray, O'Brien, Hooper, Tipuric, Pienarr, Davies) but that's what I'd go for and it isn't nice viewing as an England fan.

Corbs and Cole the only two but I've got big hopes for a lot of guys such as T Youngs, Launchberry, Morgan, B Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi and Wade going forward. Throw in established players like Corbs, Cole and Croft who if used properly could still improve IMO and we've got plenty of talent it just needs to be trusted and given a game plan that properly utilises them.

Good effort that Carlos

kc,

Well as a Welsh man I am pleased by some of your selections, I wouldn't have Tipuric in there as in top 3 in World and would have Tuilagi over Roberts.

AWJ and JD are borderline but very close.

bedfordwelsh wrote:kc,

Well as a Welsh man I am pleased by some of your selections, I wouldn't have Tipuric in there as in top 3 in World and would have Tuilagi over Roberts.

AWJ and JD are borderline but very close.

Can't agree on Tuilagi Beds, he hasn't proved himself at all in the biggest games. And as an outside centre he can't replace an inside centre.

I agree with you on Roberts though, he isn't world class at all. Not sure who I'd replace him with though, but certainly not Tuilagi.

Maes,

We never seen eye to eye on Manu with you wanting to see him given a crack on the wing and me not thinking he would crack it there.

I think he can do all Roberts does and has a bit more handling ability, I think Roberts is up there as world class but not using your criteria as being in the top 3 in his position.

Tuilagi would be in the mix for a top 3 OC, he's done it in some big games for England(NZ & France spring to mind).

Him & JD are pretty close for that 3rd spot tbh

king_carlos wrote:1.Healy, Corbs, Mtawarira
2.Du Plessis, A Strauss, Moore
3.Jones, Franks, Cole
4.Etzebeth, Wyn Jones, Gray
5.O'Connell, Horwill, Whitelock
6.Lobbe, Alberts, O'Brien - If Ferris can get fit I'd have him there
7.McCaw, Hooper, Tipuric - Pocock would come in if fit and on form
8.Read, Parrise, Picamoles

9.Genia, Fotuali'i, Pienaar
10.Carter, Cruden, Sexton

11.Savea, North, Ioane
12.Fofana, Nonu, Roberts
13.Smith, AAC, Davies
14.Habana, Jane, Bowe
15.Dagg, Beale, Halfpenny

Those would be my choices but given the nature of these threads I expect many will disagree. There are a fair few choices which were borderline in my mind (Moore, Gray, O'Brien, Hooper, Tipuric, Pienarr, Davies) but that's what I'd go for and it isn't nice viewing as an England fan.

Corbs and Cole the only two but I've got big hopes for a lot of guys such as T Youngs, Launchberry, Morgan, B Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi and Wade going forward. Throw in established players like Corbs, Cole and Croft who if used properly could still improve IMO and we've got plenty of talent it just needs to be trusted and given a game plan that properly utilises them.

Good selections King Carlos.

However a few suggestions.

Jean de Villiers without any doubt better than AAC.
Ioane is a straight ball runner, good attacker, but limited elsewhere, also Habana's preferred position is left wing, would remove Ioane, put Habana at left wing, and move zack Guildford onto right wing.

I would disagree with you on Pocock as well, even when fit, he is but a fetcher only and a very one dimensional player.

On flyhalf, not so sure Sexton is any better than Morne Steyn.

Otherwise good selections.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Tuilagi would be in the mix for a top 3 OC, he's done it in some big games for England(NZ & France spring to mind).

Him & JD are pretty close for that 3rd spot tbh

I personally think although Tuilagi is a devastating runner at times, JD has a much more allround game, multiskilled and his offload which is a must for any OC, the decider when you are looking at distribution.

"On flyhalf, not so sure Sexton is any better than Morne Steyn."

Seriously?!?!?!

I think Steyn is an extremely limited player, Sexton is a much better FH imo.

I'd also have AAC well ahead of JdV at OC. I've also seen JdV as an inside centre and a limited one at that.

I'd 100% agree on Habana over Ioane though, he's looked a little off the pace this season.

If Jean de Villiers is limited, then AAC even more so.

Have you seen Steyn play this season?

I've seen Steyn play loads Biltong.

Have to agree to disagree on AAC, think he's twice the player JdV is, for a start AAC can pass!

Yeah, we won't agree there, he is a highly commited player and gives 100% for his team every time, but yeah, we'll agree to disagree.  

I'd hope most players would give that tbh Bil, I'd say the same of Barritt for us but he's certainly not world class lol.

No dramas  

Biltong wrote:

king_carlos wrote:1.Healy, Corbs, Mtawarira
2.Du Plessis, A Strauss, Moore
3.Jones, Franks, Cole
4.Etzebeth, Wyn Jones, Gray
5.O'Connell, Horwill, Whitelock
6.Lobbe, Alberts, O'Brien - If Ferris can get fit I'd have him there
7.McCaw, Hooper, Tipuric - Pocock would come in if fit and on form
8.Read, Parrise, Picamoles

9.Genia, Fotuali'i, Pienaar
10.Carter, Cruden, Sexton

11.Savea, North, Ioane
12.Fofana, Nonu, Roberts
13.Smith, AAC, Davies
14.Habana, Jane, Bowe
15.Dagg, Beale, Halfpenny

Those would be my choices but given the nature of these threads I expect many will disagree. There are a fair few choices which were borderline in my mind (Moore, Gray, O'Brien, Hooper, Tipuric, Pienarr, Davies) but that's what I'd go for and it isn't nice viewing as an England fan.

Corbs and Cole the only two but I've got big hopes for a lot of guys such as T Youngs, Launchberry, Morgan, B Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi and Wade going forward. Throw in established players like Corbs, Cole and Croft who if used properly could still improve IMO and we've got plenty of talent it just needs to be trusted and given a game plan that properly utilises them.

Good selections King Carlos.

However a few suggestions.

Jean de Villiers without any doubt better than AAC.
Ioane is a straight ball runner, good attacker, but limited elsewhere, also Habana's preferred position is left wing, would remove Ioane, put Habana at left wing, and move zack Guildford onto right wing.

I would disagree with you on Pocock as well, even when fit, he is but a fetcher only and a very one dimensional player.

On flyhalf, not so sure Sexton is any better than Morne Steyn.

Otherwise good selections.

Agree with you bill bar Steyne vs Sexton. sexton by a country mile. I know the Leinster boys talk him up but he really is that good.

At nine Genia Smith and Fotuali'i

king_carlos wrote:1.Healy, Corbs, Mtawarira
2.Du Plessis, A Strauss, Moore
3.Jones, Franks, Cole
4.Etzebeth, Wyn Jones, Gray
5.O'Connell, Horwill, Whitelock
6.Lobbe, Alberts, O'Brien - If Ferris can get fit I'd have him there
7.McCaw, Hooper, Tipuric - Pocock would come in if fit and on form
8.Read, Parrise, Picamoles

9.Genia, Fotuali'i, Pienaar
10.Carter, Cruden, Sexton

11.Savea, North, Ioane
12.Fofana, Nonu, Roberts
13.Smith, AAC, Davies
14.Habana, Jane, Bowe
15.Dagg, Beale, Halfpenny

Those would be my choices but given the nature of these threads I expect many will disagree. There are a fair few choices which were borderline in my mind (Moore, Gray, O'Brien, Hooper, Tipuric, Pienarr, Davies) but that's what I'd go for and it isn't nice viewing as an England fan.

Corbs and Cole the only two but I've got big hopes for a lot of guys such as T Youngs, Launchberry, Morgan, B Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi and Wade going forward. Throw in established players like Corbs, Cole and Croft who if used properly could still improve IMO and we've got plenty of talent it just needs to be trusted and given a game plan that properly utilises them.

overall I would agree but a few changes maybe here and there (which you have said are borderline)

Moore from my admittedly very limited viewings of him has never struck me as world class
and the same could be said about Hooper, who was raved about prior to the lions as a massive dangerman yet I saw little evidence of that (which may be down to the lions being very successful in negating him)

it could be argued that someone like Mas as well could be world class

I also don't believe Tipuric is world class yet, both him and Warburton have the potential to be world class and both offer differing styles, something which as a welsh fan I believe is very exciting having two such quality players

I would also suggest Francois Louw who I rate very highly as a backrow player. and also Dusatoir (sp) who is a very consistent player
also players like Zanni I believe are very close to world class and also don't forget Pape who is has been outstanding for France at Lock

it is an interesting read though as there does seem to be a lack of top class players in some position such as Hooker, scrum half, Fly Half and centres
but then seems to be a vast quantity of arguably world class backrows and back three

in regards to Sexton, it is a difficult situation, as for many of us who have seen him play for Leinster have seen him play outstandingly and guided Leinster to many pieces of Silverware, however especially for our Southern Hemisphere Brethren this skill has not been witnessed while he has played at international level, although there were glimpses during the lions. Hopefully Schmidt will get the tactics right to utilise the vast skills that Sexton clearly has (although please not against Wales!!!!)

Biltong wrote:

king_carlos wrote:1.Healy, Corbs, Mtawarira
2.Du Plessis, A Strauss, Moore
3.Jones, Franks, Cole
4.Etzebeth, Wyn Jones, Gray
5.O'Connell, Horwill, Whitelock
6.Lobbe, Alberts, O'Brien - If Ferris can get fit I'd have him there
7.McCaw, Hooper, Tipuric - Pocock would come in if fit and on form
8.Read, Parrise, Picamoles

9.Genia, Fotuali'i, Pienaar
10.Carter, Cruden, Sexton

11.Savea, North, Ioane
12.Fofana, Nonu, Roberts
13.Smith, AAC, Davies
14.Habana, Jane, Bowe
15.Dagg, Beale, Halfpenny

Those would be my choices but given the nature of these threads I expect many will disagree. There are a fair few choices which were borderline in my mind (Moore, Gray, O'Brien, Hooper, Tipuric, Pienarr, Davies) but that's what I'd go for and it isn't nice viewing as an England fan.

Corbs and Cole the only two but I've got big hopes for a lot of guys such as T Youngs, Launchberry, Morgan, B Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi and Wade going forward. Throw in established players like Corbs, Cole and Croft who if used properly could still improve IMO and we've got plenty of talent it just needs to be trusted and given a game plan that properly utilises them.

Good selections King Carlos.

However a few suggestions.

Jean de Villiers without any doubt better than AAC.
Ioane is a straight ball runner, good attacker, but limited elsewhere, also Habana's preferred position is left wing, would remove Ioane, put Habana at left wing, and move zack Guildford onto right wing.

I would disagree with you on Pocock as well, even when fit, he is but a fetcher only and a very one dimensional player.

On flyhalf, not so sure Sexton is any better than Morne Steyn.

Otherwise good selections.

Yeah I like that too. Wouldnt have Nonu- JDV in there as well. Does highlight NZ's gaps nicely- right wing, halfback- hope is TJP fills that one. 6- Luatua the same. Messam has come on internationally recent seasons and clearly still has it at sxv so we hold our own there I think.

A second lock- some good ones in the mix- we're being chastised for keeping Ali on too long- Retalick and Romano are handy. A non Franks prop an issue and with Mealamu and Hore at 2 we don't overly suffer there a lot either.

1, 6, 12, 9 and 14 look our problem areas...thanks Carlos...I'll pass that on...

Biltong

With the AAC vs JDV debate I'm afraid I'm another siding with the pesky Australian. I actually view them on a pretty similar level as players though. A few years ago I would've taken De Villers for his superior physicality and ability to take the ball to the line whenever needed. In recent years though I've felt his speed seems to have decreased a bit as age catches up with him (understandably) hence why I'd now give Ashley Cooper the nod for his explosiveness. Both good players though no doubt.

On the wing, Ioane was a selection I was unsure about but with O'Connor jumping between positions and Folau so raw in Union I felt he could just sneak in. Got to admit I haven't seen much of Guildford since his well documented issues but would love to see him make a return Internationally as I really rated him prior to the perceived alcohol problems. Plus it's never pleasant to see people struggling in that sort of regard to say the least!

Pocock is an odd one for me as on one hand he doesn't play how I like a 7 to, as I view a huge part of openside play to be link work in attack. That given though there's a part of me that would really like to see him paired with Hooper to see how they work together with Hooper offering carrying in the outside channels and Pocock throwing himself into the tight exchanges. I understand the reservations given he doesn't offer much of an attacking threat but many opensides at the moment have that flaw to an extent - Louw, Robshaw, Warburton, etc.

Welshy824

Moore I rate very highly. When it comes to marshaling a set piece he does it about as well as any hooker in the world IMO, you just have to look at the difference in the Oz scrum with and without him to see that. Plus the other options all have their faults as well!

The Hooper and Tipuric selections are really down to how I want an openside to play. I prefer a 7 who acts as a link man and offers a real attacking threat along with ground work, huge work rate, etc. Dusautoir I've been a huge fan of for a long time but age and his huge commitment finally seem to be catching up with him, which has sadly reduced his game time and effectiveness.

Pape and Zanni were two guys right on the verge of selection but both are also in positions with a fair bit of competition for places. Zanni especially was outstanding in the 6N though it must be said.

Taylorman

I always help where the AB management where possible don't you worry!  

On the blindside 'issue' I'd be really interested in seeing McCaw move to 6 with Luke Braid at 7.

1.Woodcock 2.Mealamu 3.Franks 4.Retalick 5.Whitelock 6.McCaw 7.Braid 8.Read
9.Smith 10.Carter 11.Savea 12.Nonu 13.C Smith 14.Jane 15.Dagg

Throw in Cruden, Ben Smith, Guildford, etc and for a side in transitions I'd say you're not exactly struggling!

McCaw at 6...but as the enforcer we seem to need? Perhaps he could 'convince' the oppossion to death?...

Taylorman wrote:McCaw at 6...but as the enforcer we seem to need? Perhaps he could 'convince' the oppossion to death?...

You need to start getting a lot more young faces in the centre ready for when Nonu and Smith retire.

So, it seems pretty clear.

It's Wales and Dan Carter.

Maybe Biggar in for Carter.

Ha nice one Cyril.

Guildford is just so average. Quick and a good workrate. But the NZ 3/4s don't, nor should they, deal in average. Caleb Ralph was a case in point. I'd say North just shades Savea at the minute but Savea is a supreme finisher too and actually seems to possess a more complete game than say Sivi or Roks.

I like Fofana as the best 12. Think both Roberts and Nonu are on the down slope though Nonu's passing is just sublime and I never thought I'd ever say that after seeing him play for Wellington the first time.

I think our front row has been living off reputation for a bit. I don't mind our hookers, Mealamu has great go forward and Hore is brilliant at the breakdown but I don't think either has ever laid claim to being the outright world's best. Ben Franks is still unconvincing and Woodcock at present is a bit overrated. I'd probably have Cian Healy over him.

Messam is a Blackadder IMO-dominates at Super Rugby level but not quite there as a test force. I'll give him one more season though before I start slating Hansen for picking him. Want to see what Luatua can do in black-haven't seen him at all.

Hooker is another area where the ABs encumbents are ageing players and need to see new lads coming through.

Our problems scare me a lot less than when we had next to no options at halfback and flyhalf.

Shag has already acknowledged the problems and is looking to make those transitions. The end of year tour will be probably the best time to do that and he'll want his experienced hookers for the RC.

I expect Ben Smith to take the 13 role at the end of the year and say what you like about SBW but if he makes himself available for the 2015 RWC, he'll be snapped up quick as a flash. Kaino is another prodigal son who could return to the frame and with those additions, I'd be pretty confident. You can never plug all the holes. Just look at what happened in 2007 and 2011 to our flyhalves.

I think Shag is getting the right mix of experience and youth. We're certainly vulnerable but we're definitely heading in the right direction.

Tipuric certainly hasn't made it to "world class" yet. One storming performance does not a "world class" player make. A bit like Richie Gray, time is on his side, but cementing that number 7 jersey for Wales would be a big first step.

The two number 7's I least want to see on the opposition team sheet are Richie McCaw and David Pocock.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Tipuric certainly hasn't made it to "world class" yet. One storming performance does not a "world class" player make. A bit like Richie Gray, time is on his side, but cementing that number 7 jersey for Wales would be a big first step.

The two number 7's I least want to see on the opposition team sheet are Richie McCaw and David Pocock.

Warburton hasn't made top three spot his own. Bloody close to it but not played frequently enough... Opensides I wouldnt give McCaw the spot at the moment either as he hasn't played for a long while due to his sabbatical. same goes for Pocock...!

Tricky call in the 7 shirt, Tips is on the list, not quite established enough though to crack top three just yet.

I'd put Tipuric is the same camp as SOB and Rennie - next tier down, but all with the potential to get there with a bit more consistency.

I'm disregarding sabbaticals and current injuries, but McCaw and Pocock are on their own in my opinion.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd put Tipuric is the same camp as SOB and Rennie - next tier down, but all with the potential to get there with a bit more consistency.

I'm disregarding sabbaticals and current injuries, but McCaw and Pocock are on their own in my opinion.

I agree with that completely. Pocock and McCaw just seem to be in another dimension when it comes to openside play. When both are fit and on form, I don't think any other player on the planet comes close to them at the moment.

maestegmafia wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Tipuric certainly hasn't made it to "world class" yet. One storming performance does not a "world class" player make. A bit like Richie Gray, time is on his side, but cementing that number 7 jersey for Wales would be a big first step.

The two number 7's I least want to see on the opposition team sheet are Richie McCaw and David Pocock.

Warburton hasn't made top three spot his own. Bloody close to it but not played frequently enough... Opensides I wouldnt give McCaw the spot at the moment either as he hasn't played for a long while due to his sabbatical. same goes for Pocock...!

Tricky call in the 7 shirt, Tips is on the list, not quite established enough though to crack top three just yet.

Openside is an odd one at the moment with players taking breaks, long injury lay-offs, not shining in latest series etc. I think it's also a position where how you want your 7 to play determines who you'll rate highly. I like to see an openside offer great link work and a real attacking threat in his own right alongside work rate, ground work, defense etc hence why I've gone for Tipuric and Hooper.

Warburton, Pocock - Very good on the ground and in defence but offer little in attack and both struggle with injuries a lot of the time

Tipuric, Hooper - Both have huge potential IMO. Very quick and agile, good hands and playmaking abilities combined with strong defense and ground work. Neither had the impact hoped for in the Lions series though.

Rennie - Really good player IMO. Strong all round game and if he can get fit will be pushing the top 3 spots very hard.

McCaw - Been missing but would still walk into my world XV so can't really leave him out.

Louw is an odd one because he's been really good for SA and has a strong all round game but just lacks the explosiveness to push the top 3 spots in my mind. Given he's been picked by the Boks in the absence of Burger, Brussow and for a bit Juan Smith he does represent some impressive depth there for SA though. Especially if Brussow continues his form and Burger (by some miracle) makes it back to S15.

McCaw last played a test in October - its not THAT long ago. He'll be right after a couple more runs.

Why are people talking Guilford he's not even in the AB squad and he's definitely a left winger anyway.

I think Coles might be the incumbent for the ABs hooking spot now - he's not great but he's on the up unlike the old guys. Our best centres (when available) would be Smith, SBW, Kahui, Nonu, Ellison, B Smith in that order too bad they're not all available.

nganboy wrote:McCaw last played a test in October - its not THAT long ago. He'll be right after a couple more runs.

Why are people talking Guilford he's not even in the AB squad and he's definitely a left winger anyway.

I think Coles might be the incumbent for the ABs hooking spot now - he's not great but he's on the up unlike the old guys. Our best centres (when available) would be Smith, SBW, Kahui, Nonu, Ellison, B Smith in that order too bad they're not all available.

October is rapidly nearing a year ago...! Great player but McCaw will need a few games to reassume the mantle as best Openside..!

Tight head?

McCaw is out there in a league of his own, nobody comes close.

McCaw is still the one to beat at 7.

If he can become the best tighthead in the world too then I'll be well impressed

P-divvy moment...

Anyway, Wales have 15 world class players, though Danny Lydiate is out there on his own .