Welsh Squad for Autumn Tests?

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I'm not 100% sure of how many players are allowed in the team. I think it's about 35 though. So whilst considering injuries and and choosing players on form, this is what i think the team should be:

Props:
Gethin Jenkins
Paul James
Rhys Gill
Adam Jones
Samson Lee
Scott Andrews

Hookers:
Hibbard
Ken Owens
Matthew Rees

Locks:
Alyn Wyn Jones
Ian Evans
Bradley Davies
Andrew Coombs

Flankers:
Dan Lydiate
Sam Warburton
Justin Tipuric
Ryan Jones
Aaron Shingler

Number 8:
Toby Falateu
Morgan Allen

Scrum Half:
Mike Phillips
Richie Rees
Gareth Davies

Outside Half:
Dan Biggar
Rhys Priestland
Rhys Patchell

Centres:
Johnathan Davies
Ashley Beck
Scott Williams
Andrew Bishop

Wings:
George North
Alex Cuthbert
Eli Walker

Fullback:
Leigh Halpfenny
Liam Williams

Not Available (so far):
Craig Mitchell
Jamie Roberts

I think players like Morgan Allen, Andrew Bishop, Rhys Gill and Samson Lee all deserve at least a start against Tonga.
Rhys has been sharing the one jersey with Vunipolo but i have watched him once and he was solid, I hear he has been part of a strong Saracens scrum though. Plus Ryan Bevington hasn't really done much for the Ospreys so far this season.
8 for me with Wales is a big worry at the moment because with Toby injured and Ryan seen ore a a versatile substitute, however that's still only 1 cover for our starting 8. Morgan is young, fresh, strong and a great talents who is in form with the Ospreys. We need to start bringing youny 8's like Allen and Baker into the set up for the future. I mean Ryan isn't going to last much longer, we need someone know to start to challenge Toby and be a descent back up.
Bishop - is one of the most under rated players in Britain. Such a strong defender, on par with Barett in my eyes. A great player who is safe and has that experience.
Samson Lee -Been the best tightheads out of all the regions so far this season  (Adam has only just come back). A strong scrummager and would give the Tongan a good run for their money. Surly the successor for Adam when he retires. Obviously Adam to start against South Africa, Argentina and Australia but would rather Scott on the bench for those games. As much as i want Samson to shine NOW, he still needs to be bled into the set up first. SO one appearance against Tonga would be great.
Lastly, Patchell like Samson is still young and needs small steps into the set up. I think one appearance of the bench for Tonga would be nice for him. However we all know what can happen when we rush a young 10 into the spotlight. So even though i want him in the team for the experience, i hope were not forced to play him too much this Autumn.

The French don't play open and blind more left and right he said on Scrum V so he's finding feet adapting etc and likely to be few head to head

bedfordwelsh wrote:The French don't play open and blind more left and right he said on Scrum V so he's finding feet adapting etc and likely to be few head to head

I guess thats true, and the stuff they do in the line/rucks/open play will still be able to be compared too, after all that is what these two are best at as opposed to being lumps thrown in to add ballast to the pack.

Jut saying Ryan Joens was amazing last weak, he reallt prved he wanted to be back and play some good rugby. I wouldn't rule him out to start the first autmn tests.

Dan is now being messed about every weak and playing out of position, this is hwy i hate these french team so much. They lack consistency with team selection because they are so big, they have left Dan out of the team a few times now.
I'm glad he is starting against us (well im not really) because he can come back under the radar of Gatland.

Against SA you need the best first phase tackler in your squad on the pitch for 80 mins. By all accounts that Lydiate.

Wales have a good chance to genuinely compete for the match... don't leave your prize stud in the paddock

Lydiate has played 7 before on a few occasions and to be honest play left and right is more likely to improve his game rather than hinder it.

Don't agree with the statement "Coaches/teams mess players around and ruin their careers by playing them in different positions!" and never have done. Yes Lydiate has played 7 before, and he played very well. If he forms his old partnership with Warbs and Faletau it shouldn't take much for him to get back into the swing of things (chopper).

No worries there Saint and he still plays the blinside role throughout a game when using the left and right system whilst adding elements of open side to his game.

Great to hear Toby played well at Bath today. The baff/Barth forum are praising him a lot for his performance.

Alex Cuthbert was injured in yesterdays game, if he's out for the AI series, do we bring in Eli Walker? Which winger is next in line?

IronMike wrote:Alex Cuthbert was injured in yesterdays game, if he's out for the AI series, do we bring in Eli Walker? Which winger is next in line?

I would say maybe Eli Walker or Liam Williams.

Liam Williams for sure, his defence is reliable and that is the most important factor.

Who do you think will be the newcomers into the squad?

No-one really put their hands up in Japan and a few of the old guard are struggling for form at club level (Ianto, Melon, Lydiate!) so there may be a few places up for grabs. Also injuries to Roberts and possibly Cuthbert, but against that Priestland is fit and firing and will come into the mix.

My names to watch are:

Dragons: Jack Dixon and Lewis Evans
Blues: Owen Williams and Patchell
Ospreys: King, and Walker
Scarlets: Lee, Ball and both Rhodri and Jordan Williams

My starting team for SA:

Halfpenny, Cuthbert (if fit), Davies, Williams, North, Priestland, Phillips, James, Hibbard, A Jones, AW Jones, Evans, Lydiate, Faletau, Warburton.

No newcomers but a few of my ones to watch may get on the bench or as injury replacements.

seagull,

Pretty much my side though would gibe Biggar benefit of the doubt, 2nd row will be interesting given that Evans seems to have fallen out of favour with the Os at the moment.

I also guess Jenkins will start but like you I would pick James.

Definitely Eli Walker and Liam Williams in contention, there isn't anybody close after that. Also if Roberts is out I'd be tempted to go for Priestland, Williams and Davies. Dixon would have been my other choice for 12 but unforunately he's out for a few months. I'd also be willing to give Owen Williams a chance at 13. Beck and Bishop are crap so we look short on 12's now.

Jenkins had a superb game against his old club for the blues, I would want him over James on current form.

The squad is to be announced on Tuesday..!

My thoughts are along the lines of...

James, Jenkins, Hibbard, Owens, Jones, Lee

AWJ, Coombs, Davies, Evans

Evans, Shingler, Lydiate, Tipuric, Warburton, Faletau, Jones

Phillips, L Williams, R Williams

Priestland, Biggar

S Williams, Davies, Allen, O Williams

L Williams, Halfpenny, North, Cuthbert, Hook.

what about Corey Allen? I know he has only had a couple of starts but he has not looked out of place, and like Rhodri Williams for the Scarlets have both seem to have taken the transition to Regional rugby really well. I am not suggesting starting him, but potentially have him in the squad just to start his progression.

Also in terms of Fly half, Priestland is definitely coming back into form and his taking the ball to the line, however Biggar is consistently giving his all for what is at the moment a poor Ospreys backline!

welshy824 (new) wrote:what about Corey Allen? I know he has only had a couple of starts but he has not looked out of place, and like Rhodri Williams for the Scarlets have both seem to have taken the transition to Regional rugby really well. I am not suggesting starting him, but potentially have him in the squad just to start his progression.

Also in terms of Fly half, Priestland is definitely coming back into form and his taking the ball to the line, however Biggar is consistently giving his all for what is at the moment a poor Ospreys backline!

I agree with you on all those mentioned and included them in my post, the one above yours.

I think Cory Allen and Owen Williams look a great prospect. Certainly ranking above our other options. The Ospreys combinations of Beck, Bishop and John have not inspired as yet. Dixon looks great at the dragons though is currently injured for a few more weeks.

Patchell had another excellent game. He may well make the cut...?

Maes,

Pretty much spot on out of that list L Evans, Allen, O Williams and possibly J Williams will be the so called 'shock selections'.

Do think Walker will be in there though and like said 2nd row will be interesting with Evans not figuring for the Os at the moment. Charteris is back playing for Perp though think the AIs maybe bit to soon.

Patchell made a few schoolboy errors (then again who doesn't) plus I can't see him naming 3 No10s in the squad unless its a larger squad than normal to give some players the experience of being involved.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Patchell made a few schoolboy errors (then again who doesn't) plus I can't see him naming 3 No10s in the squad unless its a larger squad than normal to give some players the experience of being involved.

however gatland does have a tendency to bring in young players to the squad just to learn, a bit like Samson Lee? last AI's was it?

Welshy,

Agree but I cant see him bringing him in at the expense of either Biggar or Priestland who are both on very good form.

Guess a lot will depend on what size squad he names.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Welshy,

Agree but I cant see him bringing him in at the expense of either Biggar or Priestland who are both on very good form.

Guess a lot will depend on what size squad he names.

oh yes I wouldn't bring him in at the expense of either of them or possibly even hook who by all accounts has been playing well for Perpignan (sp?)
also could shingle be another potential centre to be brought in? as we are low on centres and Gatland does seem to like to have a centre option on the bench?

When all the fuss about S Shingler opting for Scotland started my opinion was 'fair enough let him go'.

We didn't and he's ours now and from what I have seen he looks pretty handy so yeah he could be an option especially as he has a very handy boot on him as well.

Good option having a footballer at inside centre. Gatland was a huge fan of Henson. Shingler is no where near that level but is a great prospect. He has been good not inspiring. I would be surprised to see him make the Squad, maybe disappointed to see him in over Cory Allen. I certainly don't think Beck or Bishop deserve to make it.

There will be room for a couple of centres in the squad. Williams and JD2 are certainly front runners.

I think Maestegmafia is pretty close with his squad: Could do with a second specialist 8, not sure who that would be though and I would be surprised if only 2 experienced centres are selected, so maybe Beck or Bishop for either Allen or Williams. I think that Eli Walker will get in, he is probably 3rd choice wing.

What will be interesting is whether Hook makes the squad. He is playing well at 15 for Perpignan but is nowhere near a starting 15 at test level with Halfpenny Liam Williams and Byrne ahead of him. If Biggar and Priestland are fight it out for the 10 shirt, will Hook be chosen for the squad purely as a bench warmer?

Could potentially move priestland to 15 and push Halfpenny to the wing though that's a desperate situation and we should be looking to build for the RWC really

maestegmafia wrote:Jenkins had a superb game against his old club for the blues, I would want him over James on current form.

Thought Jenkins was very industrious on Saturday, needs a few more games though.

Shame there's no All Blacks test this year. Wales look the only NH team
That would give them a decent game.

There a few more out there that I would like to see get the exposure such as Ieuan Jones and Morgan Allen but guess there is a limit to squad size

Maes, you should be picking this Autumn's squad!

I also think it's a bit risky picking Allen but Gats does take a risk now and again. I went for Owen Williams because he has lots more experience with his regional team. Allen is only just coming in, though his Sevens experience could count for something.

Third 10 could be somebody who can play in a different position. In that case they may call upon Hook who is playing at full back and fly-half regularly.

maestegmafia wrote:The squad is to be announced on Tuesday..!

My thoughts are along the lines of...

James, Jenkins, Hibbard, Owens, Jones, Lee (third hooker could be Phillips).

AWJ, Coombs, Davies, Evans

Evans, Shingler, Lydiate, Tipuric, Warburton, Faletau, Jones (Jones has been a bit stale, but can come good)

Phillips, L Williams, R Williams (It's either Rhodri or Rees, both good options IMO. Management don't like Rees)

Priestland, Biggar (No.3 fly-half is certainly Tovey, if a third is selected)

S Williams, Davies, Hook, O Williams (Hook covering fly-half, centre, full back. Might be good to have an experienced option)

L Williams, Halfpenny, North, Cuthbert, Walker.

Just some changes I might make.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Shame there's no All Blacks test this year. Wales look the only NH team
That would give them a decent game.

You'll get a game from England, France and Ireland. Especially if you're rotating, they'll fancy their chances.

Good calls saint.

Hook as a bench player is such a luxury, one that few other teams have. He has bags of experience at four positions in the backline. He would be a massively surprising omission.

Re Cory Allen I just think he looks such a talent we have to get him involved now. We will have great depth at centre with lads like him and Williams coming through. Dixon too..!

Regarding Walker he looks great but so do Prydie, Jordan Williams, Halam Amos even Harry Robinson has looked a threat.

I think those 4 each have had their good moments in some games but have mostly been average so far this season. They'll surely get better as time goes on gaining more experience.

I''Jenkins is getting back to form and is nearly there, i guess people might be a bit wary of him cause of the scrummgaing performance against Toulon; but really when your tighthead is literally getting lifted up 6 ft in the air, wtf can you do. Anyway I thought he and Bradely Davies were like work horses around the park.
Personally i'm a bit worried about Adam at the moment, hasn't been his scrummaging self, i'm sur when he gets that sniff if international rugby though he will be back. It happened last year, he started off a bit shaky but came back and gave Italy a pasting.
Still a bit too soon to bring Cory Allen into the international front, he has only just had his second Heineken cup game; same with Dixon. I would keep with Beck and Scott Williams with Owen Williams maybe.
Don't know what will happen with second row, i think Gatland will keep with Ian but i really want to know why the hell he got dropped, personally i think the Ospreys have made a very big mistake leaving him out last weak. James King isn't a second row, he isn't big enough for big brutal teams like Casters and Northampton.
Coombs has been in and out all season with injury so i haven't really got to seem him play, the one time i saw him was against us and he was really good. Alyn Wyn is on great form and Bradely was immense against Toulon. Also Jake Ball has been great for us so far in the Heineken Cup, a real star so far, has to be in contention for a call up at least (we need to cap him before the English or Aussies see his potential)

Out of the games this week end, Lee Byrne had a better game than Half Penny in my opinion. Do you think he will get maybe a bench spot?

Oh and A shout for Rhys Gill, Mako was getting destroyed against Toulouse, Rhys came on gave them stability, splatform and had the nudge a few times. He is way ahead of Bevington at the moment for me.

Out of the games this week end, Lee Byrne had a better game than Half Penny in my opinion. Do you think he will get maybe a bench spot?

majesticimperialman wrote:Out of the games this week end, Lee Byrne had a better game than Half Penny in my opinion. Do you think he will get maybe a bench spot?

No not really. Byrne has been playing well for Clermont for years and hasn't got a bench spot, so I can't see anything changing now. Plus, Gatland seems to be all about World Cup cycles (which I sort of agree with), so under that principle/system bringing back a 33 year old now two years ahead of the World Cup would be a backwards step. I imagine he'd be looking to 'blood' someone like Jordan Williams or Hallam Amos instead (even if Byrne is the better play than them, currently).

Jhamer25 wrote:I''Jenkins is getting back to form and is nearly there, i guess people might be a bit wary of him cause of the scrummgaing performance against Toulon; but really when your tighthead is literally getting lifted up 6 ft in the air, wtf can you do. Anyway I thought he and Bradely Davies were like work horses around the park.
Personally i'm a bit worried about Adam at the moment, hasn't been his scrummaging self, i'm sur when he gets that sniff if international rugby though he will be back. It happened last year, he started off a bit shaky but came back and gave Italy a pasting.
Still a bit too soon to bring Cory Allen into the international front, he has only just had his second Heineken cup game; same with Dixon. I would keep with Beck and Scott Williams with Owen Williams maybe.
Don't know what will happen with second row, i think Gatland will keep with Ian but i really want to know why the hell he got dropped, personally i think the Ospreys have made a very big mistake leaving him out last weak. James King isn't a second row, he isn't big enough for big brutal teams like Casters and Northampton.
Coombs has been in and out all season with injury so i haven't really got to seem him play, the one time i saw him was against us and he was really good. Alyn Wyn is on great form and Bradely was immense against Toulon. Also Jake Ball has been great for us so far in the Heineken Cup, a real star so far, has to be in contention for a call up at least (we need to cap him before the English or Aussies see his potential)

I'm slightly worried about Adam too. I think he is taking his time getting used to the new laws, hopefully he will improve as the season goes on.

Owen Williams is the more experienced, Allen the most exciting if you ask me. I think both will make quality internationals, but I would take the bet on Allen based on the fact that he is the more solid defender and will benefit more from the coaching than Williams (who has already experienced it) - although there is an argument for giving some continuity to Williams and leaving Allen to get gametime.

However, what both need at the moment, is gametime together - so unless required, I think both should be left at the Blues to get some gametime - same is true for Patchell.

The front-runner to partner AWJ had to be Davies at the moment - he is having a fantastic season at the Blues so far.

I don't have an issue with guys like Patchell O Williams, C Allen, I Jones, M Allen and even Dixon if he was fit just being involved with the squad.

It gives them a taster of the next level and helps them compare where they are to where the managament want rhem to be.

They would gain a huge amount from it and still be able to go back to their Regions for the games being played during the AIs.

Is it just me or anyone else think that Jake Ball could be worth a shout? He has been very good in the HEC this season, and really thrown his considerable weight into the scrums and rucks.

I know he is a bit green, but seeing the slump in form of some big name players maybe bringing in an outsider (from the regular international locks) could shake them up a bit.

SS,

Again why not even if just for the exposure and like you say to maybe give the established stars a kick up the arris.

The main squad/side is pretty much established but sometimes that leads to complacency so a fresh face or two couldn't hurt.

Ball could be this years Coombs...!

I wouldn't mind more depth in the second row, we do already have good experience there:

AWJ, Coombes, Evans, Charteris, Davies

Charteris has played a couple of matches and looked good. He might be worth keeping in the mix.

I don't rate Lou Reed, would rather Ball than Reed.

I don't thin Lou Reed will ever be an ption anymore so don't worry, he isn't up to international rugby, tow good talents coming through with Jake Ball and Lloyr Pears. But Jake should be in the squad, i'm not sure if coombsy is plying at the moment because he is inured every other weak. Jake is going to be a big bruiser (bit like Bakkies) throws his weight around a bit, would be good against Tonga.
Personally I wound't pick Charteits whilst he is in France. I know Gatland's law doesn't really exist but it does for some players. I mean I know the likes of Mike, Jamie and Dan are crucial to our team and are first choice and will be picked. But players like Charteris aren't as vital to the team, plus we have other good lock playing IN Wales. It has to be fair to bring them through now.

Jhamer25 wrote:I don't thin Lou Reed will ever be an ption anymore so don't worry, he isn't up to international rugby, tow good talents coming through with Jake Ball and Lloyr Pears. But Jake should be in the squad, i'm not sure if coombsy is plying at the moment because he is inured every other weak. Jake is going to be a big bruiser (bit like Bakkies) throws his weight around a bit, would be good against Tonga.
Personally I wound't pick Charteits whilst he is in France. I know Gatland's law doesn't really exist but it does for some players. I mean I know the likes of Mike, Jamie and Dan are crucial to our team and are first choice and will be picked. But players like Charteris aren't as vital to the team, plus we have other good lock playing IN Wales. It has to be fair to bring them through now.

Fair point. Charteris is getting on a bit too, he's been around for years. That said Perpignan let him have plenty of time off for international duty last time round.

Lloyd Piers had some superb games last year for the Ospreys. I haven't seen much of him this year though, I thought he might have been injured...?

We have more cover in the 2nd row now than I can ever really remember, we have AWJ, Evans, Davies, Coombs. Charteris all of whom are proven now and wouldn't let us down then we have the likes of king, Pears and Ball coming through and the ;in case of emergency options' in R Jones and Shingler.

I am concerned with Evans currently being out of favour at the Os but on flip side Davies seems to be finding good form and getting a bit of his dog back.