Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Football :: Premier League
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Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
First topic message reminder :
It was always going to be hard for Hughton.
The Norwich family never really took to him as one of their own
It was always going to be hard for Hughton.
The Norwich family never really took to him as one of their own
GSC- Posts : 43496
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Good win for Chelsea yesterday. Quite fortunate but a very big win regardless.
Very poor keeping from Hart who has gone from being one of the most reliable keepers in the league to one of the least. Again, his decision making was poor. He's done this before - come rushing out of his goal when there is absolutely no need to (think back to the England - Sweden friendly).
I can see the giant Pantilimon starting their next game. He looked good in their cup ties last season.
City without Kompany look very vulnerable. They have brought an unnecessary amount of forwards and have totally ignored any defensive back up. Getting rid of Mancini was an error. They looked a lot harder to beat under the Italian.
As for Chelsea, Torres was great yesterday and rolled back the years. As did Terry. Andre Schurrle is starting to resemble the top player he is. However, Lampard looks like a passenger now and shouldn't really be starting these big games anymore.
Chelsea to win the league.
Very poor keeping from Hart who has gone from being one of the most reliable keepers in the league to one of the least. Again, his decision making was poor. He's done this before - come rushing out of his goal when there is absolutely no need to (think back to the England - Sweden friendly).
I can see the giant Pantilimon starting their next game. He looked good in their cup ties last season.
City without Kompany look very vulnerable. They have brought an unnecessary amount of forwards and have totally ignored any defensive back up. Getting rid of Mancini was an error. They looked a lot harder to beat under the Italian.
As for Chelsea, Torres was great yesterday and rolled back the years. As did Terry. Andre Schurrle is starting to resemble the top player he is. However, Lampard looks like a passenger now and shouldn't really be starting these big games anymore.
Chelsea to win the league.
J.Benson II- Posts : 1258
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Am I the only one who thought Torres was his usual self, bar a bit of pace? He scored a goal that he wouldn't have if not for Hart, he missed an open goal, and the City defence was turgid for his assist on Schurrle's goal - the guy didn't even try to block the cross!
I still think he's useless.
I still think he's useless.
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
I thought he always looked threatening. If Chelsea were ever going to get something from the game, you just felt that it would come from him.Azzy Mahmood wrote:Am I the only one who thought Torres was his usual self, bar a bit of pace? He scored a goal that he wouldn't have if not for Hart, he missed an open goal, and the City defence was turgid for his assist on Schurrle's goal - the guy didn't even try to block the cross!
I still think he's useless.
However, I think he needs a run of at least several good back to back performances before anyone can get excited with him.
J.Benson II- Posts : 1258
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
He looked a lot more confident, running at the their er defense, for what their was. Made me laugh when a pundit, who's name escapes me said he use his strength for Chelsea's first goal. Strength? The defender almost waived him through.
Stella- Posts : 6671
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Isn't that all Fernando has ever been his link up play is better then at Liverpool with Gerrard behind him gave him room to run in beyond can't do that with Chelsea everyone sits back against them . I think Chelsea & Arsenal could actually use switching forwards Chelsea need a link up forward like Giroud & Arsenal need someone to get in behind the defense like Torres.Azzy Mahmood wrote:Am I the only one who thought Torres was his usual self, bar a bit of pace? He scored a goal that he wouldn't have if not for Hart, he missed an open goal, and the City defence was turgid for his assist on Schurrle's goal - the guy didn't even try to block the cross!
I still think he's useless.
Fernando- Fernando
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Torres at Arsenal? Giroud has become the tap-in master, Torres couldn't tap Mila Kunis if she was tied to a bed and blindfolded
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Neither could I.Azzy Mahmood wrote:Torres couldn't tap Mila Kunis if she was tied to a bed and blindfolded
http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01637/SNN1425E---_1637400a.jpg
http://c10.ilbe.com/files/attach/new/20130921/377678/28002910/2031888342/f916f9d09553053e164132dc9992d557.jpg
J.Benson II- Posts : 1258
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
and is now rated as the best striker in London & is a classy, technically gifted finisher of the highest calibre.Azzy Mahmood wrote:Giroud has become the tap-in master
Not sure how much you will agree, probably not at all, but I am willing to bet that Giroud fails to score in any of the Liverpool (h), Dortmund (a) & Man Utd (a) games.
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
If the bet was either no goals in those three games, or one goal, and you put a gun to my head, I'd say no goals.
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Rather be a tap in master like giroud than the "technical powerhouse" carroll who cant score for toffee.
Realy dont understand why people are critising giroud for scoring but then prasing carroll
Realy dont understand why people are critising giroud for scoring but then prasing carroll
compelling and rich- Posts : 6084
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
GSC- Posts : 43496
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Phew I thought it was just me who hadnt seen this version of carroll everybody else is talking aboutGSC wrote:Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
compelling and rich- Posts : 6084
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Oh for goodness sake! Come on, I was even being reasonable with it!
Now I'm happy Leicester continue to flounder!
Now I'm happy Leicester continue to flounder!
Dolphin Ziggler- Dolphin
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
hahaGSC wrote:Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
Champagne_Socialist- Posts : 4961
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Don't stoop to incredibly daft hyperbole, you're better than that.GSC wrote:Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
Duty281- Posts : 34580
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Perhaps tell that to the people saying that they would choose Carroll over all the other strikers in the epl (or nearly all the other strikers)Duty281 wrote:Don't stoop to incredibly daft hyperbole, you're better than that.GSC wrote:Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
Champagne_Socialist- Posts : 4961
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
I think Wilko has been quite in his assessment of Carroll, he doesn't rate him higher than say Van Persie, Suarez or anybody else but he fits in perfectly with the way West Ham play. He's a round peg fitting into a round hole, would I want him at Man United no I wouldn't but that's less to do with his ability than his style of play.
Hammersmith harrier- Posts : 12060
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
He's a handful when whoever he plays for, hit diagonal or long balls into him. Bit like what Fellaini did at Everton. Chips in with maybe 10-12 goals a season and thats about it. An alright striker but for me will never get to a top side.
Liam- Posts : 3574
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Id have wellbeck and hernadez over carroll let alone him getting anywhere near rooney and rvp. And thats on ability not style, a decent header of the ball would do well in a united team with all of our crossesHammersmith harrier wrote:I think Wilko has been quite in his assessment of Carroll, he doesn't rate him higher than say Van Persie, Suarez or anybody else but he fits in perfectly with the way West Ham play. He's a round peg fitting into a round hole, would I want him at Man United no I wouldn't but that's less to do with his ability than his style of play.
compelling and rich- Posts : 6084
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
what? Welbeck instead of Carroll. I'd rather have a physically strong, dominant in the air striker who can bang 10+ goals a season & bring others in around him, than Welbeck who basically runs, runs, runs, loses it or when is presented with a chance or open goal he fluffs it. How many goals last season 1? How many this season six, seven maybe in the league he's going to get. There also complete different strikers all these players your comparing, different sides require different strikers n attributes.
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Wellbeck is by no means a finished product and has alot to learn but yes I would have him over carroll who's more than likely to miss 2/3 of a season and the rest getting fit.
Also Wellbeck hasnt been given a run in a team for a solid amount of games and certainty not in his strongest postion. Never been a left winger and when he's played upfront I reckon he's got alot better scoring rate than carroll. One game up front this season and he scored two and his record for england is also alot better averaging a goal nearly one in two to carrolls one in 4
Also Wellbeck hasnt been given a run in a team for a solid amount of games and certainty not in his strongest postion. Never been a left winger and when he's played upfront I reckon he's got alot better scoring rate than carroll. One game up front this season and he scored two and his record for england is also alot better averaging a goal nearly one in two to carrolls one in 4
compelling and rich- Posts : 6084
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
I think at Euro 2012 Carroll proved when he's on form Welbeck shouldn't even be in the same stadium.
Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Without Welbecks improvised flick finish we probably wouldn't have got to the quarter finals.
Hammersmith harrier- Posts : 12060
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
The fitness argument is fair, I can hold my hands up to that. I do hope its just a matter of issues backing up. Its not like he plays 3 matches, gets a little strain for a week then another 3 and repeat, its reasonably big injuries. The hope being that he gets over bad luck rather than is just injury prone.
Its all very relative. I think Carroll is fully capable of 15 goals a season. I think Benteke would be looking at closer to 20. I think theres thing each is better at than the other. Similar with a lot of strikers. I actually prefer Lukaku to both, some would prefer Benteke to Lukaku, so its hard to have any answer really.
I also rate Welbeck. Carroll would be one of my four strikers for England this summer, as would Welbeck. Fergie was right with his pick of Welbeck over Rooney against Real Madrid last year, Welbeck off the ball is so key to a team performance.
Its kind of similar to a discussion on Giroud. I really dont think he'd look all that at Man United or City, but I think he is absolutely perfect for Arsenal. The reason he isnt top top level is because someone like Rooney, Suarez, Aguero or RVP could play in any side in the world.
Its all very relative. I think Carroll is fully capable of 15 goals a season. I think Benteke would be looking at closer to 20. I think theres thing each is better at than the other. Similar with a lot of strikers. I actually prefer Lukaku to both, some would prefer Benteke to Lukaku, so its hard to have any answer really.
I also rate Welbeck. Carroll would be one of my four strikers for England this summer, as would Welbeck. Fergie was right with his pick of Welbeck over Rooney against Real Madrid last year, Welbeck off the ball is so key to a team performance.
Its kind of similar to a discussion on Giroud. I really dont think he'd look all that at Man United or City, but I think he is absolutely perfect for Arsenal. The reason he isnt top top level is because someone like Rooney, Suarez, Aguero or RVP could play in any side in the world.
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
The last time andy carroll got 10+ league goals was back in 2010 when he got 13. Since then he has scored 4 goals in in 11/12 and 7 goals in 12/13 and 0 goals this season due to injury.John wrote:what? Welbeck instead of Carroll. I'd rather have a physically strong, dominant in the air striker who can bang 10+ goals a season & bring others in around him, than Welbeck who basically runs, runs, runs, loses it or when is presented with a chance or open goal he fluffs it. How many goals last season 1? How many this season six, seven maybe in the league he's going to get. There also complete different strikers all these players your comparing, different sides require different strikers n attributes.
The guy just does not score goals
Champagne_Socialist- Posts : 4961
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
I'm saying if he's injury free he can bang double figures. Basically in a team set out to play to his attributes n style, he bangs double figures like Newcastle. He moved to Liverpool, got injured & then was playing in a side which did not suit his style of play, hence the less goals. He was then injured for the 12/13 season, so obviously no goals. You got to look at more than just stats, more like the environment he was in.
He does score goals, when fit, which he will be at a certain point in time.
He does score goals, when fit, which he will be at a certain point in time.
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Im very confident that in ten years time looking back on both wellbecks and carrolls career, wellbeck will be remembered as the better player
compelling and rich- Posts : 6084
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Rather have Carroll than Welbeck in the England team.
I rather rate Carroll as a better finisher, better in the air, and has a better first touch. #oneandycarroll
I rather rate Carroll as a better finisher, better in the air, and has a better first touch. #oneandycarroll
Duty281- Posts : 34580
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Welbeck only gets in the England team because of the club he's at. If he was anywhere else he'd get slagged to high heaven.compelling and rich wrote:Im very confident that in ten years time looking back on both wellbecks and carrolls career, wellbeck will be remembered as the better player
Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
8 goals in twenty caps often playing a role for the team rather than his best postion would suggest otherwise. Remind me again what the brillant all round carroll scoring record is?CFCNick wrote:Welbeck only gets in the England team because of the club he's at. If he was anywhere else he'd get slagged to high heaven.compelling and rich wrote:Im very confident that in ten years time looking back on both wellbecks and carrolls career, wellbeck will be remembered as the better player
compelling and rich- Posts : 6084
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
welbeck is a good footballer but for me only the 5 best england striker, but as he shored up that wing the last england game he would be a wc squad player
If everyone is fit and on half decent form, my order
rooney
walcott
sturridge
carroll
welbeck
murray
lambert
Gayle
considering we are at a low point for english strikers- that isn't to bad..
If everyone is fit and on half decent form, my order
rooney
walcott
sturridge
carroll
welbeck
murray
lambert
Gayle
considering we are at a low point for english strikers- that isn't to bad..
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Rooney is world class.
Sturridge may develop into something near that level (don't think he ever will be)
Walcotts a threat on his day.
Beyond that I'm not impressed tbh
Sturridge may develop into something near that level (don't think he ever will be)
Walcotts a threat on his day.
Beyond that I'm not impressed tbh
GSC- Posts : 43496
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Potential wise there is also gansta Morrison
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
I just rewatched united v stoke highlights. I cannot believe how bad Nani, cleverley and kawaga were! Stoke totally bossed them in the middle. Game saved by Ronney and RVP again!
Moyes needs to have another look at Zaha... and quick
Moyes needs to have another look at Zaha... and quick
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
I'd love to see Agbonlahor & Delph make it to the world cup.
Both playing well, but cant see it, even if they have great seasons.
Gabby doesn't score enough goals, but his pace is frightening.
Both playing well, but cant see it, even if they have great seasons.
Gabby doesn't score enough goals, but his pace is frightening.
westisbest- Posts : 7932
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
We have pace with Walcott and Wellbeck. I reckon Carroll, Lambert and/or Defoe should be battling it out for the other strikers spot.
Stella- Posts : 6671
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
you mean beyond sturridge and rooney!
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Yeah. No Young either. Never rated him that highly but he has gone off the boil, when he's been fit.mystiroakey wrote:you mean beyond sturridge and rooney!
Stella- Posts : 6671
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
young is not in running either for me at the moment. I would have 10 players above him as wing/strikers/forward players
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Welbeck scores tap ins for England. He can't score at all for United. Carroll is never fit but when he is, he's unplayable and if he played a full 38 game season for West Ham, I could see him putting away anywhere between 12-20 goals. Easily.
Ashley Young was great for England about 2.5 years ago, but his form has nosedived so spectacularly that I'd be tempted to announce publicly that he's never playing for my England team again. He's become a shadow of the player he once was.
Ashley Young was great for England about 2.5 years ago, but his form has nosedived so spectacularly that I'd be tempted to announce publicly that he's never playing for my England team again. He's become a shadow of the player he once was.
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
In terms of meaningful goals, they've only scored one each - both against Sweden.compelling and rich wrote:8 goals in twenty caps often playing a role for the team rather than his best postion would suggest otherwise. Remind me again what the brillant all round carroll scoring record is?CFCNick wrote:Welbeck only gets in the England team because of the club he's at. If he was anywhere else he'd get slagged to high heaven.compelling and rich wrote:Im very confident that in ten years time looking back on both wellbecks and carrolls career, wellbeck will be remembered as the better player
Welbeck's other goals have come in friendlies, or against footballing minnows.
Duty281- Posts : 34580
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Both are average.
Carroll is just useful for mid/lower tier PL teams due to their long ball tactics.
Not good enough for a team with CL aspirations.
Neither is Wellbeck, but he's only at United because he came through the academy. His Ronaldinho impersonations are always amusing though.
Carroll is just useful for mid/lower tier PL teams due to their long ball tactics.
Not good enough for a team with CL aspirations.
Neither is Wellbeck, but he's only at United because he came through the academy. His Ronaldinho impersonations are always amusing though.
J.Benson II- Posts : 1258
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Thing is, Welbeck and Carroll do a lot more than just score goals but some people only look at goal stats and say someone is rubbish, end of story. Niether are world beaters but I would say they are hardly average either.
MIG- Sheep Champ
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Welbeck has the potential to be a star. But he needs to become consistent - as Daniel Sturridge has done - and put more effort in.
Carroll needs to get fit, and take his career seriously. No more looking like Jimmy Five Bellies - get trim, take your career seriously, score goals, get in the England side, move back to a big club, become a huge name. He too has the potential, but I think Welbeck will have by far the better career.
Carroll needs to get fit, and take his career seriously. No more looking like Jimmy Five Bellies - get trim, take your career seriously, score goals, get in the England side, move back to a big club, become a huge name. He too has the potential, but I think Welbeck will have by far the better career.
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Sturridge has far more ability than Wellbeck though, and always has.
People will always say stuff like "if Wellbeck starts scoring more goals, he'll be great", but that same principle will apply to almost any player.
It reminds me of the old Heskey debates of the past - "he doesn't score but adds a lot to the team". Whether that's true or not, he's a forward at the end of the day so will always be judged by goals, and therefore should naturally have some kind of composure and finishing ability - hence why someone like Hernandez will always be very useful addition to any team.
Carroll had one decent season in the PL. Has he done anything to merit being considered any better than someone like Holt or Lambert for instance?
Same with Wellbeck. apart from being a youth product from a top team, is he really any better than someone like Agbonlahor?
People will always say stuff like "if Wellbeck starts scoring more goals, he'll be great", but that same principle will apply to almost any player.
It reminds me of the old Heskey debates of the past - "he doesn't score but adds a lot to the team". Whether that's true or not, he's a forward at the end of the day so will always be judged by goals, and therefore should naturally have some kind of composure and finishing ability - hence why someone like Hernandez will always be very useful addition to any team.
Carroll had one decent season in the PL. Has he done anything to merit being considered any better than someone like Holt or Lambert for instance?
Same with Wellbeck. apart from being a youth product from a top team, is he really any better than someone like Agbonlahor?
J.Benson II- Posts : 1258
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
But would you say Holt, Lambert and Agbonlahor are average too? Cause I wouldn't.
I would say someone like Anichebe or Borini is average.
I would say someone like Anichebe or Borini is average.
MIG- Sheep Champ
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Oh don't bring up the travesty that was Holty not making the Euros Benson
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
How dare you insult the average footballerMIG wrote:But would you say Holt, Lambert and Agbonlahor are average too? Cause I wouldn't.
I would say someone like Anichebe or Borini is average.
Anichebe is worthless. He's less than average, he's an abomination.
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
Average in the sense that they are fairly pedestrian players in the PL that are best suited for average, mid-tier clubs.
Olly, I personally also think Holt deserved a place in the 2012 squad.
Olly, I personally also think Holt deserved a place in the 2012 squad.
J.Benson II- Posts : 1258
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Re: Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread
I don't really agree with your use of the term average. Mid tier Premier League clubs are not average. Unless you only watch Premier League football of course and never take any notice of any of the lower leagues.
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