Wales vs South Africa match buildup.

First topic message reminder :

OK boys, this weekend Wales and South Africa will both attempt to begin their Autumn Internationals with a win.

Both teams for different reasons.

Wales will want to build on their Six Nations form of the last two years, they will want to confirm to themselves that the British and Irish Lions tour was won because of their players, and they will want to progress from being Northern Hemisphere kings, to a team that has the ability to beat South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.

In my view, and possibly in the view of their supporters the time is now, it has been a while since Wales has been so dominant in Europe, the only thing missing before they can call themselves world beaters is to take the next step.

How much of it is mental, how much of it is due to the fact that they struggle to put 80 minute performances together I cannot be certain of, but what I do know is they have the ability, sadly it seems Cuthbert and Roberts will not be part of what I deem as the most talented and dangerous backline in Europe. For two reasons I might add, it is the most settled back line in Europe, and also very experienced.

Since the World Cup in 2011, Wales have won 9 of their 10 Six Nations matches, undoubtedly a very good record, however their problem was the seven match losing streak in between the two Six Nations.

South Africa on the other hand, has a new coach, been there for near two full seasons and he has made a difference.

Still not yet consistent, the concern is always how will Meyer ensure that the springboks perform on a consistent basis. In the past 18 months under Heyneke Meyer the boks had their fair share of poor games.

Last year out of the twelve test matches played the springboks managed to win 7 tests, drew 2 and lost three.

Although the three tests they lost were against New Zealand (twice) and Australia, there were a number of other performances that were not up to par. England in the third test at home, Argentina in Mendoza and New Zealand at home, those were poor performances by South Africa.

Although they went through the Autumn internationals unbeaten the were less than convincing.

I suppose the positive out of the performances were even when they played poorly, they managed to be on the right side of the scoreboard most of the time.

Although South Africa has shown improvement this year, the consistency is still under question.

The one aspect of their game that has improved immeasurably is their positive approach to attacking play, looking at the number of tries scored this year in comparison to last year it makes for astounding reading, in 2012 during 12 matches South Africa managed only 23 tries, conceding 16. This year in 9 tests they have managed 39 tries, conceding 18 tries.

Only New Zealand have managed to score regular tries against SA, totalling 15 tries in the last two years, the rest of their opponents only managed 19 tries in 17 matches.

Wales during 2012 managed to score 20 tries in conceding 17 in their 13 matches. During 2013 in their seven tests to date, they managed 11 tries, conceding 7.

If South Africa continues with their positive approach  to attacking plays I believe Wales will be hard pressed, their defence will have to be up to par, there is no doubt Wales will have a positive approach to the game, so from that perspective it should be an entertaining match.

There are some questions over the selections Meyer will make, will he bring Jaque Fourie, JP Pietersen and Bakkies Botha in for the first tour match, which would add significantly to the experience of the team, or will he give debutant Pieter Steph du Toit his first cap?

Of course Willie le Roux and JJ Engelbrecht may yet be inexperienced, but in my view it would be unfair to summarily dismiss them in favour of the old hands.

Wales have a few selection issues as well, who will replace Cuthbert and Roberts, and the ultimate question, will Phillips’ disciplinary record affect his chances for selection?

I still wonder who is the best fly half in Wales.

Come what may, this match should be a tough encounter, will SA prove they have made the step up and show consistency, or will Wales make the next leap towards world domination?

Springbok team for Wales.

The Springbok team to face Wales in Cardiff is:

15. Pat Lambie 29 caps 55 points
14. JP Pietersen 48 caps 70 points
13. Jaque Fourie 69 caps 160 points
12. Jean de Villiers (captain) 93 caps 120 points
11. Bryan Habana 92 caps 265 points
10. Morné Steyn 51 caps 618 points
9. Fourie du Preez 65 caps 70 points
8. Duane Vermeulen 13 caps 5 points
7. Willem Alberts 27 caps 30 points
6. Francois Louw 25 caps 25 points
5. Flip van der Merwe 31 caps 5 points
4. Eben Etzebeth 20 caps 0 points
3. Frans Malberhe 0 caps 0 points
2. Bismarck du Plessis (v-captain) 54 caps 40 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira 50 caps 10 points
Replacements:
16. Adriaan Strauss 30 caps 25 points
17. Gurthrö Steenkamp 46 caps 30 points
18. Coenie Oosthuizen 11 caps 5 points
19. Pieter-Steph du Toit 0 caps 0 points
20. Siya Kolisi 8 caps 0 points
21. Ruan Pienaar 71 caps 130 points
22. JJ Engelbrecht 10 caps 20 points
23. Willie le Roux 9 caps 15 points

Wales team for South Africa
Wales

15 Leigh Halfpenny,
14 George North,
13 Jonathan Davies,
12 Scott Williams,
11 Eli Walker,
10 Rhys Priestland,
9 Mike Phillips,
8 Toby Faletau,
7 Sam Warburton (captain),
6 Dan Lydiate,
5 Alun Wyn Jones,
4 Bradley Davies,
3 Adam Jones,
2 Richard Hibbard,
1 Gethin Jenkins

Substitutes: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Paul James, 18 Scott Andrews, 19 Luke Charteris, 20 Justin Tipuric, 21 Lloyd Williams, 22 James Hook, 23 Liam Williams

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

gavstar wrote:No way can  rp's games so far, however good, justify biggar being dropped.

No offence, but clearly the coaches disagree with you on that.

They seem strangely undecided about what they want from a ten, considering the tactics elsewhere are unwavering and relentless.

Hook was too much, Biggar wasn't enough, do they see Priestland as some sort of magic Goldilocks solution if they give him enough chances?

Cas, saying 'if they give him enough chances' suggests it hasn't happened yet, when actually he was the 'Goldilocks solution' during the World Cup and the subsequent Six Nations (brain fart at Twickenham aside). Then he suffered a slump in confidence and form. He's not the first player to have experienced that, and he won't be the last. The good news is that he's back to full fitness and playing some great rugby.

I see some logic in it, but even at his best Priestland isn't significantly better than Biggar at general play, and is hopelessly erratic kicking out of hand, even when he's 'in the groove'. Given the way Wales play I'd have thought Biggar's consistency would be a massive plus (he's a virtual clone of Stephen Jones, with the added benefit of being able to kick).

There is only a small upside, and potentially a huge downside, in playing Priestland? Just seems out of character for Gatland & Co to take such a risk.

Or, to quote Gwyn Jones:

'Doedd e ddim yn syndod o gwbl gweld Rhys Priestland yn cael ei ddewis yn safle’r maswr. Does dim amheuaeth taw Priestland sydd wedi bod fwyaf llwyddiannus yn cyflwyno elfen greadigol ymhlith yr olwyr o fewn y fframwaith y mae Gatland wedi ei sefydlu.

Rydym i gyd yn gyfarwydd â phatrwm chwarae Cymru, ond yr hyn y mae Gatland yn gwerthfawrogi am Priestland yw nid yn unig ei allu i weithredu’r cynllun ond i fanteisio ar y cyfleoedd y mae’r strategaeth yn ei chynnig.'

http://www.s4c.co.uk/rygbi/2013/11/flin-gen-i-warren-y-boks-yw%e2%80%99r-ffefrynnau/

My translation: it was no surprise at all to see Rhys Priestland being selected in the outside half position. There's no doubt that Priestland has been the most successful in introducing a creative element amongst the backs within the framework Gatland has established.

We're all familiar with Wales's pattern of play, but the thing that Gatland appreciates about Priestland is not only his ability to execute the plan, but also to capitalise on the chances that the strategy offers.

seeing Hook and Priestland both being in the 23 I am wondering if we might see a more developed attacking threat from wales than seen previously, I mean the lions showed how if some of our players like halfpenny are given a license to counter attack they are deadly.

Also Wales are one of the fittest teams at international rugby and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw wales try and emulate the pace of the game that we saw in the final AB v SA match. After all that resulted in lots of gaps in the defence as the scoreline showed, and with our players and our defence which our gameplan is built on, we could hurt the Saffers.
However likewise they could hurt us.

I think it is dangerous to say Wales is one of the fittest teams when they just got together.

The AB's were at the end of the RC and in peak form, being together at that stage for 8 weeks, thinking players collected from clubs a week ago will have the same conditioning is highly unlikely.

That said, we are at the end of our 11 month season, fatigue might be a factor due to that

welshy824 (new) wrote:seeing Hook and Priestland both being in the 23 I am wondering if we might see a more developed attacking threat from wales than seen previously, I mean the lions showed how if some of our players like halfpenny are given a license to counter attack they are deadly.

Also Wales are one of the fittest teams at international rugby and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw wales try and emulate the pace of the game that we saw in the final AB v SA match. After all that resulted in lots of gaps in the defence as the scoreline showed, and with our players and our defence which our gameplan is built on, we could hurt the Saffers.
However likewise they could hurt us.

The problem with that is , Wales are not the All blacks. Just because the Kiwis could find holes in the bok defense on the hard grounds of Ellis Park after a 10 game season does not mean Wales can do the same in their first outing together since June .

 True dat

In other news I just nicked a packet of Biltong from the SA shop in the market #TeamWales

Enjoy mate, do yourself a favour and slice a Jalapeno thinly and enjoy with a slice of biltong.

I guess it goes back to the old debate of will the NH teams be Fresh or Rusty and will the SH teams be Fatigued or settled (couldn't think of a better word, brain is shut off as its the weekend!!!!)

I regularly buy packets of biltong from Sainsbury's, I now prefer that to the American Beef jerky they also sell. One day I'd like to sample the real biltong jerky from SA, it looks good!

Interesting article:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-south-africa-how-6286068

I don't think the SA team will be fatigued. They have had a good 2 weeks off competitive rugby, in fact only 7 appeared in the CC final meaning they had even longer off.

gavstar wrote:
Rumour down the pub last night was the o's played him at 15 because they knew he wasn't in and were told hook could cover , so they put biggar on show at 15 , and he had a great game......won't do any good though. Never mind, no harm in feeling sorry for a guy who has been unjustly treated, which is what it's about at the end of the day.

I actually thought Biggar played better at 15 than I have ever seen Hook play there. It will be interesting to see if he plays there again, he is a top FH, but he will increase his skill set and running game playing occasionally at FB (which is what Gatland wants)

The Saint wrote:I regularly buy packets of biltong from Sainsbury's, I now prefer that to the American Beef jerky they also sell. One day I'd like to sample the real biltong jerky from SA, it looks good!

Jerky, aussie or american, tends to be moistier and oilier than biltong, though there may be moist biltongs, not had them all but all the ones I've had were very dry. All tastes good.

There's a butcher near me that has various dried game meat in the back and you buy by weight and then he slices it off for you, that's biltong rather than jerky. Think he's Rhodesian as he seems to be flying the south Rhodesian flag of old.... then again I may be wrong and it's just a version of the Zimbabwean flag

Jhamer25 wrote:Interesting article:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-south-africa-how-6286068

No as good as this one

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/17-great-welsh-rugby-wins-6285326

 

Jhamer25 wrote:Interesting article:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-south-africa-how-6286068

Very optimistic ratings.

Fourie = Davies?  . Lambie is diminutive but Halfpenny ain't exactly a giant and hes played a lot of 15 for SA... he was 1st choice 15 at the RWC 2 years back.

Saying Morne is only equal to Priestland is also a little off the chart. 1 is a proven clutch player with the world record for most consecutive successful kicks at test level at over 40. The other has lost a number of games for his country... personally.

Also find it humourous that Gethin Jenkins is given such a high rating.

well, if dr gwyn says rp can execute 'the plan' then there is indeed one. only one. 

OzT wrote:

The Saint wrote:I regularly buy packets of biltong from Sainsbury's, I now prefer that to the American Beef jerky they also sell. One day I'd like to sample the real biltong jerky from SA, it looks good!

Jerky, aussie or american, tends to be moistier and oilier than biltong, though there may be moist biltongs, not had them all but all the ones I've had were very dry. All tastes good.

It is a shame you an't get fresh biltong, I prefer my normal beef biltong wet (my wife calls it raw, bu then she eats her steak burnt)

You can make biltong salad with nice moist biltong, it is smilar in texture to smoked beef.

When I eat chilibites then the drier the better as you pull strand by strand off the piece of meat.

Well I guess the butcher I was talking about must be doing proper biltongs, he's got all the dried meat in the back, including all those game animals you get over there which I can't spell but I remember eating when I was over there.

Both jerky and biltongs are nice, thing is with biltongs you can get more than just beef

fa0019 wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:Interesting article:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-south-africa-how-6286068

Very optimistic ratings.

Fourie = Davies?  . Lambie is diminutive but Halfpenny ain't exactly a giant and hes played a lot of 15 for SA... he was 1st choice 15 at the RWC 2 years back.

Saying Morne is only equal to Priestland is also a little off the chart. 1 is a proven clutch player with the world record for most consecutive successful kicks at test level at over 40. The other has lost a number of games for his country... personally.

Also find it humourous that Gethin Jenkins is given such a high rating.

I would give the Beast and Etzebeth another point.

I would rate Davies as least as highly as Fourie - he was the best Lions centre by some distance and has been second only to Fofana in the NH for the last few years. Whereas Fourie has been playing rugby in Japan for the last couple of years and could be very out of practise.

Jenkins is a 9 when on form, probably only a 8 atm.

Steyn isn't exactly Mr consistent - he was atrocious last year, in both his game management and goal kicking.

Halfpenny is a proven world class 15, probably the player of the year (only Ben Smith can rival him really) whereas Lambie has a bag full of caps but has never really secured the 10 or 15 shirt for SA - in fact I have never seen him live up to the hype surrounding him.

Yeah, Kudu is nice, but your game meat must be very dry.

wales606 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:Interesting article:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-south-africa-how-6286068

Very optimistic ratings.

Fourie = Davies?  . Lambie is diminutive but Halfpenny ain't exactly a giant and hes played a lot of 15 for SA... he was 1st choice 15 at the RWC 2 years back.

Saying Morne is only equal to Priestland is also a little off the chart. 1 is a proven clutch player with the world record for most consecutive successful kicks at test level at over 40. The other has lost a number of games for his country... personally.

Also find it humourous that Gethin Jenkins is given such a high rating.

I would give the Beast and Etzebeth another point.

I would rate Davies as least as highly as Fourie - he was the best Lions centre by some distance and has been second only to Fofana in the NH for the last few years. Whereas Fourie has been playing rugby in Japan for the last couple of years and could be very out of practise.

Jenkins is a 9 when on form, probably only a 8 atm.

Steyn isn't exactly Mr consistent - he was atrocious last year, in  both his game management and goal kicking.

Halfpenny is a proven world class 15, probably the player of the year (only Ben Smith can rival him really) whereas Lambie has a bag full of caps but has never really secured the 10 or 15 shirt for SA - in fact I have never seen him live up to the hype surrounding him.

The Welsh media do , do a lot pre game talking , even JDV who's normally very diplomatic had to chip in on all the hype http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/south-african-skipper-jean-de-6285628

Biltong wrote:

OzT wrote:

The Saint wrote:I regularly buy packets of biltong from Sainsbury's, I now prefer that to the American Beef jerky they also sell. One day I'd like to sample the real biltong jerky from SA, it looks good!

Jerky, aussie or american, tends to be moistier and oilier than biltong, though there may be moist biltongs, not had them all but all the ones I've had were very dry. All tastes good.

It is a shame you an't get fresh biltong, I prefer my normal beef biltong wet (my wife calls it raw, bu then she eats her steak burnt)

You can make biltong salad with nice moist biltong, it is smilar in texture to smoked beef.

When I eat chilibites then the drier the better as you pull strand by strand off the piece of meat.

Much prefer Biltong to 'jerky', I used to eat it after the gym rather than those stupid shakes.

Its very expensive here - about £2 for a 50g bag !

Bullsbok wrote:

wales606 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:Interesting article:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-south-africa-how-6286068

Very optimistic ratings.

Fourie = Davies?  . Lambie is diminutive but Halfpenny ain't exactly a giant and hes played a lot of 15 for SA... he was 1st choice 15 at the RWC 2 years back.

Saying Morne is only equal to Priestland is also a little off the chart. 1 is a proven clutch player with the world record for most consecutive successful kicks at test level at over 40. The other has lost a number of games for his country... personally.

Also find it humourous that Gethin Jenkins is given such a high rating.

I would give the Beast and Etzebeth another point.

I would rate Davies as least as highly as Fourie - he was the best Lions centre by some distance and has been second only to Fofana in the NH for the last few years. Whereas Fourie has been playing rugby in Japan for the last couple of years and could be very out of practise.

Jenkins is a 9 when on form, probably only a 8 atm.

Steyn isn't exactly Mr consistent - he was atrocious last year, in  both his game management and goal kicking.

Halfpenny is a proven world class 15, probably the player of the year (only Ben Smith can rival him really) whereas Lambie has a bag full of caps but has never really secured the 10 or 15 shirt for SA - in fact I have never seen him live up to the hype surrounding him.

The Welsh media do , do a lot pre game talking , even JDV who's normally very diplomatic had to chip in on all the hype http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/south-african-skipper-jean-de-6285628

Its really no worse than the tripe spouted on Sky about world beating England or how every new capped player is the new Wilkinson or Robson

Without the ratings its a fairly informative article for people who dont know much about the SA team - I couldnt name all the players just by lookign at them - we don't play you enough

Yeah, Bullsbok unfortunately we're afflicted here in Wales by the Western Mail paper and their online platform WalesOnline. They are truly awful. Embarrassing pretty much all of the time. I actually hold the media responsible for a lot of the problems in Welsh rugby - they build us up for no reason, then tear us down when we under perform, leading to loss of confidence and form, etc. I know every country has media, but here we only have one real outlet so never get a balanced view or an alternative view like you do elsewhere. I can't stand them.

On another point The Times newspaper, which is still classed as a national newspaper in Wales (i.e. It covers us too) is running the headline today "Jonathan Davies: from lions Villain to Hero". How was he ever a villain?!

Poor BOD  

Media is media, they must sell papers, TV ratings or whatever else.

I selectively choose who I read and who I don't, it is sport, you cn say watever you lie beforehand, it is all just opinions anyway

Media is important though. I've heard many stories from various sports where the team talk has simply been newspaper articles pinned on the board.

Prior to the Lions in 2009 you heard Gatland (forwards coach) talking about the boks weakness in the scrum.... I read afterwards that Beast, Bismarck & Smit spent 1 month simply hitting the scrum machine in preparation... the rest is history.

Casartelli wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

gavstar wrote:No way can  rp's games so far, however good, justify biggar being dropped.

No offence, but clearly the coaches disagree with you on that.

They seem strangely undecided about what they want from a ten, considering the tactics elsewhere are unwavering and relentless.

Hook was too much, Biggar wasn't enough, do they see Priestland as some sort of magic Goldilocks solution if they give him enough chances?

Cas, saying 'if they give him enough chances' suggests it hasn't happened yet, when actually he was the 'Goldilocks solution' during the World Cup and the subsequent Six Nations (brain fart at Twickenham aside). Then he suffered a slump in confidence and form. He's not the first player to have experienced that, and he won't be the last. The good news is that he's back to full fitness and playing some great rugby.

I see some logic in it, but even at his best Priestland isn't significantly better than Biggar at general play, and is hopelessly erratic kicking out of hand, even when he's 'in the groove'.  Given the way Wales play I'd have thought Biggar's consistency would be a massive plus (he's a virtual clone of Stephen Jones, with the added benefit of being able to kick).

There is only a small upside, and potentially a huge downside, in playing Priestland?  Just seems out of character for Gatland & Co to take such a risk.

I'm amazed and disappointed to see Priestland picked ahead of Biggar.  Has everyone forgotten his dire performances last autumn, wasting penalties against the All-Blacks by kicking dead twice in a row, booting the ball to the Aussie backs in the dying minutes of two matches, butchering overlaps, repeatedly woeful garryowens and kicking from hand etc. etc.

Biggar was a key element in the 2013 Welsh  revival. His chip to North was the one moment of flair that won a super-tight match in Paris.  The difference between the two players was seen in their response to charge-downs. Against England in 2012, RP went to pieces, got himself  carded and when he came back  onfield  he butchered everything that came his way. Biggar got charged down in the 1st half against Ireland this year, but put it behind him and played very well in  the second half and in all subsequent games.    

Gatland must really, really like Priestland.

fa0019 wrote:Media is important though. I've heard many stories from various sports where the team talk has simply been newspaper articles pinned on the board.

Prior to the Lions in 2009 you heard Gatland (forwards coach) talking about the boks weakness in the scrum.... I read afterwards that Beast, Bismarck & Smit spent 1 month simply hitting the scrum machine in preparation... the rest is history.

gats tend to wind up the opposition to a bad effect . i got the impression when Adam Jones come on it was the lions who had the rub of the green with the scrum . until he was clinically taken out

Personaly i ( cannot) understand why Priestland as been brouhgt back in to the 10 shirt.

I thought Wales played a lot better when Biggar was at 10,

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Media is important though. I've heard many stories from various sports where the team talk has simply been newspaper articles pinned on the board.

Prior to the Lions in 2009 you heard Gatland (forwards coach) talking about the boks weakness in the scrum.... I read afterwards that Beast, Bismarck & Smit spent 1 month simply hitting the scrum machine in preparation... the rest is history.

              gats tend to wind up the opposition to a bad effect . i got the impression when Adam Jones come on it was the lions who had the rub of the green with the scrum . until he was clinically taken out

Totally agree

Gatland obviously thinks that Biggar is primarily a goal kicker. There was a time when this was a valid accusation but he has expanded his game since then. With Halfpenny there to kick goals, WG feels he needs a more creative player at 10 - but not such a loose cannon as Hook.

I actually think Wales stand a decent chance. Glaring questionmark over priestland at 10. but i see no reason they can't win. welsh players tend to have much greater familiarity and fluency than england or SA with the same limited amount of time together. must be to do with so many of them playing on the same small number of teams. so i dont see rustiness as an issue.

if i were gatland i would target etzebeth. he is a giant, but also an extremely loose cannon. the look in his eyes when something kicks off is scary. get him sin-binned or sent off and it would be game on. especially with the new scrum laws.

Biltong wrote:Rodders, mate I think respectfully you are wrong.

It is about much more than the SA forwards. Our backs played a big role this year.

Ah no I know that Bilts - what I mean is Wales won't get the edge in the pack, if they have a chance its out wide with their powerful 3/4 line. I'm not suggesting that Wales don't have a decent pack nor that SA can't play some very good attacking rugby out wide too. De Villiers in particular is in fantastic form and you guys have a very dangerous back 3.

quinsforever wrote:I actually think Wales stand a decent chance. Glaring questionmark over priestland at 10. but i see no reason they can't win. welsh players tend to have much greater familiarity and fluency than england or SA with the same limited amount of time together. must be to do with so many of them playing on the same small number of teams. so i dont see rustiness as an issue.

if i were gatland i would target etzebeth. he is a giant, but also an extremely loose cannon. the look in his eyes when something kicks off is scary. get him sin-binned or sent off and it would be game on. especially with the new scrum laws.

You didn't happen to notice that he produced an exceptional display at the Stoop a few weeks ago then? He's been playing well all season. RP did more than enough to make the jersey his in 2011. A bad run of form plus injuries and Biggar steps in...there's the key word, he's a stand in. He'll have to go some way to take the jersey. Biggar did very well for Wales back then, but he's No.2 in fly-half stakes and a good full back option given his abilities.

The Saint wrote:

quinsforever wrote:I actually think Wales stand a decent chance. Glaring questionmark over priestland at 10. but i see no reason they can't win. welsh players tend to have much greater familiarity and fluency than england or SA with the same limited amount of time together. must be to do with so many of them playing on the same small number of teams. so i dont see rustiness as an issue.

if i were gatland i would target etzebeth. he is a giant, but also an extremely loose cannon. the look in his eyes when something kicks off is scary. get him sin-binned or sent off and it would be game on. especially with the new scrum laws.

You didn't happen to notice that he produced an exceptional display at the Stoop a few weeks ago then? He's been playing well all season. RP did more than enough to make the jersey his in 2011. A bad run of form plus injuries and Biggar steps in...there's the key word, he's a stand in. He'll have to go some way to take the jersey. Biggar did very well for Wales back then, but he's No.2 in fly-half stakes and a good full back option given his abilities.

So it would be game on if you're playing against 14 men ? Doesnt inspire confidence in your team..

Not sure what you're getting at? Just watch the Wales team play on Saturday then you can decide whether they're any good or not.

The Saint wrote:Not sure what you're getting at? Just watch the Wales team play on Saturday then you can decide whether they're any good or not.

if i were gatland i would target etzebeth. he is a giant, but also an extremely loose cannon. the look in his eyes when something kicks off is scary. get him sin-binned or sent off and it would be game on. especially with the new scrum laws.

Just that qoute i seemed to find odd

You quoted me but I didn't write that.

The Saint wrote:

quinsforever wrote:I actually think Wales stand a decent chance. Glaring questionmark over priestland at 10. but i see no reason they can't win. welsh players tend to have much greater familiarity and fluency than england or SA with the same limited amount of time together. must be to do with so many of them playing on the same small number of teams. so i dont see rustiness as an issue.

if i were gatland i would target etzebeth. he is a giant, but also an extremely loose cannon. the look in his eyes when something kicks off is scary. get him sin-binned or sent off and it would be game on. especially with the new scrum laws.

You didn't happen to notice that he produced an exceptional display at the Stoop a few weeks ago then? He's been playing well all season. RP did more than enough to make the jersey his in 2011. A bad run of form plus injuries and Biggar steps in...there's the key word, he's a stand in. He'll have to go some way to take the jersey. Biggar did very well for Wales back then, but he's No.2 in fly-half stakes and a good full back option given his abilities.

You say bad run of form as if it's some external factor beyond the players' control, like the weather. He cracked under pressure. Biggar didn't. Yes, it's obvious  Gatland sees Biggar as number two and RP as number one - but Gatland is not always right. He's a stubborn man , where his favourites are concerned.

Bullsbok wrote:

The Saint wrote:Not sure what you're getting at? Just watch the Wales team play on Saturday then you can decide whether they're any good or not.

if i were gatland i would target etzebeth. he is a giant, but also an extremely loose cannon. the look in his eyes when something kicks off is scary. get him sin-binned or sent off and it would be game on. especially with the new scrum laws.

Just that qoute i seemed to find odd

Yep, that quote seems to come from Quins, an English poster  

samurai, the only ones not in favour of RP are blinkered Ospreys fans. They're the ones who think Beck should be starting and Fussell should be in contention for an international cap. RP is the best 10 in Wales at playing structured and heads up rugby, Biggar can only play the one brand.

The Saint wrote:samurai, the only ones not in favour of RP are blinkered Ospreys fans. They're the ones who think Beck should be starting   and Fussell should be in contention for an international cap. RP is the best 10 in Wales at playing structured and heads up rugby, Biggar can only play the one brand.

Really?

Yep.

I'm in favour of Biggar and I'm a dragons fan...

The Saint wrote:Yep.

So which one are you Saint?

JDV is really talking up his side so on that basis I'm going for a bok win. Its not like him to talk his side up from what Ive seen. Suggests theyre really on a different level at the moment.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/9381947/De-Villiers-warns-Wales-of-best-shape-ever-Boks

Wales sure are an enigma. Back to back 6N's, the basis of the Lions series win yet can't beat a SH side, something their 6N victims are doing all around them. That is a real odd situation. The way they toppled England in that huge pressure decider suggested they would topple any SH side, even on their good day.

The clash of styles here- particularly in the backs will be fascinating, particularly if the boks continue with the expansive style. Pity about the ground that looked terrible in the League match. Whats going on there?

samuraidragon wrote:I'm amazed and disappointed to see Priestland picked ahead of Biggar.  Has everyone forgotten his dire performances last autumn, wasting penalties against the All-Blacks by kicking dead twice in a row, booting the ball to the Aussie backs in the dying minutes of two matches, butchering overlaps, repeatedly woeful garryowens and kicking from hand etc. etc.

No, no one's forgotten it. But it seems that some people have conveniently forgotten some of the stinkers Biggar has had for Wales, like, say, against Fiji a couple of seasons ago.

If we're picking one of them up for poor performances, it's only fair to pick the other up for poor performances too.

samuraidragon wrote:Biggar was a key element in the 2013 Welsh  revival. His chip to North was the one moment of flair that won a super-tight match in Paris.  The difference between the two players was seen in their response to charge-downs. Against England in 2012, RP went to pieces, got himself  carded  and when he came back  onfield  he butchered everything that came his way. Biggar got charged down in the 1st half against Ireland this year, but put it behind him and played very well in  the second half and in all subsequent games.

   

Yes, Priestland had a mare at Twickenham. But for the Grand Slam clincher against France a couple of weeks later, he played pretty much faultlessly. His kicking out of hand kept France pinned back time after time.

If you're going to praise one of them for coming back after a bad performance, it's only fair to praise the other for doing so as well.

Taylorman wrote:

Wales sure are an enigma. Back to back 6N's, the basis of the Lions series win yet can't beat a SH side, something their 6N victims are doing all around them. That is a real odd situation. The way they toppled England in that huge pressure decider suggested they would topple any SH side, even on their good day.

You sure about that? The NH record against the SH is terrible all round. Last year England won one game out of 6 against SH (this figure includes SA tour) which isn't a good return. France may have smashed Aus but came last in the 6 Nations in the same season, they came fourth(?) in previous year's tournament. Scotland have the odd win spread over the years, 3 of these happen to be against SA and Aus which is highly documented on here, what isn't is the fact that they fight with Italy to avoid the wooden spoon every year. Besides they lost to NZ, SA and Tonga in last years series. I'd say up to now England's record is the best, but for now it's still poor, just not as poor as the rest.

Saint, they've all beaten SH sides since we last did. That's the point.