Read vs Halfpenny for World Player Of The Year

First topic message reminder :

Stuck on this one eh. Both have been in mesmeric form and have played huge hands in memorable wins for their teams. Happy with either.

Have read that Read benefits from the team around him this year which I don't believe. He's one of the standouts who would be missed more than the usual 7 and 10. Such a vital cog.

Halfpenny has been so assured all season and on form has probably been the best goalkicker in the game this year. Set up the try which broke the 3rd Lions test open.

No matter who wins, kudos to both for a brilliant year. (Half) Penny for your thoughts? See what I did there?

I think let the English decide.
Then the question is which do they dislike more - their age old foe the Welsh who they have a pretty much even record against but whose fans seem to hate each other intensely or the Kiwis who they have a much poorer record against but whose fans they only have a not nice relationship with?

Or would the hemisphere factor come into it?

Of course we can assume that noone will make a judgement based purely on rugby merit.

Griff wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:My apologies Griff. You are far more open minded than myself.

Open your mind. Don't be a sheep.

Oops my apologies too Griff. Mind you are sheep really closed minded?

I go with the sheep. I choose NZ

quinsforever wrote:I go with the sheep. I choose NZ

Baa.

8.

Parisse

Has been a head above for years in a mercurial itaiian side. What i would give to see him play in a SH side, surrounded by the world's best

15.

Half, wins games, wins tours…what more do you want form a player

sheep? closed minded?

ask them yourself….

http://www.wimp.com/sheepprotest/

Scratch wrote:8.

Parisse

Has been a head above for years in a mercurial itaiian side. What i would give to see him play in a SH side, surrounded by the world's best

15.

Half, wins games, wins tours…what more do you want form a player

Pie, peas and chips and a frothy warm pint  

flyhalffactory wrote:

Scratch wrote:8.

Parisse

Has been a head above for years in a mercurial itaiian side. What i would give to see him play in a SH side, surrounded by the world's best

15.

Half, wins games, wins tours…what more do you want form a player

Pie, peas and chips and a frothy warm pint  

That sounds disgusting.
Pie, chips and a cold pint thank you

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote: Id prefer something like won lineouts, turnovers at the breakdown etc.

Well we cannae compare a 15 to an 8

I prefer something you can actually compare

I agree with Quin , tries scored .

Read has it in ALL Tests

15/60 or every 4 games

Half

12/49 or every 4.08 games

Think a more accurate question is , if you have a kicking ten , ie Farrell , DC , Steyn , Sexton etc

who would you pick to join your team , READ or HALFPENNY  

Scratch wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote: Id prefer something like won lineouts, turnovers at the breakdown etc.

Well we cannae compare a 15 to an 8

I prefer something you can actually compare

I agree with Quin , tries scored .

Read has it in ALL Tests

15/60 or every 4 games

Half

12/49 or every 4.08 games

let it be know these are not two players in identical positions being compared. This is a forward vs a back's try scoring stats

It's also player OF THE YEAR.

Read wins in tries this year I believe, no?

Sorry, misread your post scratch. Am on iPhone...

Read debuted late 08 so looking at team tries scored since then:

15 scored by Read of 242 for new zealand in 67 games

Half debuted Nov 2008 so using same time frame he has scored 12 of 123 tries in 62 games

Read 6.19% of tries scored for NZ
Half 14.76% of tries scored by Wales

Bullsbok wrote:Think a more accurate question is , if you have a kicking ten , ie Farrell , DC , Steyn , Sexton  etc

who would you pick to join your team , READ or HALFPENNY  

Read at full back, he is the complete player and who needs a kicker anyway  

Who would one rather have in the opposite position?

Which one has the biggest sized feet?

Could be a redundant thread when the IRB announces the shortlist of

1 Farrel
2 Dusautoir
3 Sexton
4 Folau

 

Scratch wrote:Read debuted late 08 so looking at team tries scored since then:

15 scored by Read of 242 for new zealand in 67 games

Half debuted Nov 2008 so using same time frame he has scored 12 of 123 tries in 62 games

Read 6.19% of tries scored for NZ
Half 14.76% of tries scored by Wales

But in fairness to Read guys like Jane,Savea, Piutau, Nonu, Smith x3, Dagg, Ranger, Sonny Bill, etc keep nicking the ball and scoring tries with it.

No Auckland - Read nicked it from the opposition and passed it to them to score.

nganboy wrote:No Auckland - Read nicked it from the opposition and passed it to them to score.

Yeah I saw the 50 quid go into Reads pocket on the way past as well. That was what Robshaw was doing, not going for the ball.

Always felt the "playing in a world class team" argument is two-fold. On one hand, you have the quite obvious advantage of being surrounded by genius all around you. On the other, surely being the best player in the best team is an achievement in itself? Can't really judge HP using the Australia tour. Australia have been remarkably poor this year, and using only tapes of Australia vs South Africa, I could probably make a reasonably solid argument for Zane Kirchner to be anointed WPOTY (I like the guy more than most, but the fact that I'm dead serious about that statement shows how poor Australia have been). Given all the love for a fullback who can kick, and do very little wrong, it seems Percy Montgomery should have been a shoe-in all the years McCaw and Carter were bossing it

If Halfpenny played for the ABs he wouldn't be under team orders to kick everything back and we'd see more of the HP in the 3rd Lions test and less of the excellent defensive fullback we get with Wales fly half. It's like having a trophy wife and not having your way with her. You just have her on display without getting to see what she's really made of. A luxury car that you use only for commuting instead of racing it with 14 other luxury cars on a track. It may not stand out as much but at least you're getting your money's worth.

There have been some crackingly dull threads about BoD,Gatland,Scottish representation on the Lions etc but this one is essential bed time reading as it is coma-inducing.
Bring back "my Dad is bigger than your Dad" and raise the bar!

So, a car doesn't get credit for being the best supercar in a fleet of supercars?

So, a car shouldn't get credit for being the best supercar in a fleet of supercars?

Impossible as there's national bias in that as well. What is the best super car?

For this arguments sake, I'd say The current AB side is a fleet of supercars, and Read, has been the pick of the bunch

It's simple enough to decide, surely? Read is a better all-round number eight than Halfpenny is an all-round full back, so Read should get the award.

Can somebody please explain why this award matters?I must be missing something.

This is a tough one for me. I can't remember seeing either of them play badly.

Halfpenny by some distance was the best Lions tourist in the summer, but Read has been frankly outstanding at no.8

It's a Lions year though so I expect that might just shade it for Halfpenny.

Taffineastbourne wrote:There have been some crackingly dull threads about BoD,Gatland,Scottish representation on the Lions etc but this one is essential bed time reading as it is coma-inducing.
Bring back "my Dad is bigger than your Dad" and raise the bar!

without actually seeing them my guess is read dad is bigger then halfpennys

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:There have been some crackingly dull threads about BoD,Gatland,Scottish representation on the Lions etc but this one is essential bed time reading as it is coma-inducing.
Bring back "my Dad is bigger than your Dad" and raise the bar!

                without actually seeing them my guess is read dad is bigger then halfpennys

Well that has sorted it! 

It'll go to halfpenny without a doubt.

He seems to get kudos for everything he does, even the basics.

I will give him he's good under a high ball for a tiddler, he hit's hard for a small guy, and his positioning is superb. He gets a lot of MOTM awards for goal kicking alone though.

Read has been the better player, and would probably offer more carrying threat from attack at FB.

I know halfpennys orders are to kick, but please for the love of.... RUN THE BALL NOW AND THEN. Ive seen him do it for the Blues, and the lions but never for WAles.

So I think rRead should, Halfpenny will.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Can somebody please explain why this award matters?I must be missing something.

it matters because there are no really big games to argue about this weekend, and everyone's up for a debate

 Nice one jimmy.

If I had to pick between Read and Ben Smith for best NZ player this year Id go for Read but that is probably my Canterbury bias. These awards don't mean much really but at least we are considering two worthy candidates for once.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote: Nice one jimmy.

If I had to pick between Read and Ben Smith for best NZ player this year Id go for Read but that is probably my Canterbury bias. These awards don't mean much really but at least we are considering two worthy candidates for once.

ITs all well and good to argue amongst ourselves until the committee releases the nominees and Owen Farrell finds himself with a chance to win the POTY again .   If there was a ever a pisstake it was his nomination last year

Read by a mile.

Halfpenny's kicking has been brilliant but in terms of overall game play no contest

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:If Halfpenny played for the ABs he wouldn't be under team orders to kick everything back and we'd see more of the HP in the 3rd Lions test and less of the excellent defensive fullback we get with Wales fly half. It's like having a trophy wife and not having your way with her. You just have her on display without getting to see what she's really made of. A luxury car that you use only for commuting instead of racing it with 14 other luxury cars on a track. It may not stand out as much but at least you're getting your money's worth.

If Halfpenny were a kiwi though he might not have kicking duties (he hasn't always been first choice kicker for Wales I understand) so he would then have to be better than Jane, Smith, Dagg at the other full back duties.

Course if you are not having your way with your trophy wife then someone else is.

If Halfpenny didn't get a look in for NZ then he might play for Wales due to his Welsh granny and then become the best full back in the world like Shane Howarth did.

Read should probably get it being a standout performer in a dominant NZ team.

I would just like to point out to people comparing Halfpenny's kicking %'s and points per game vs the likes of Carter, Steyn et al that 1/2p became Wales' primary kicker at the start of 2012 6N; before that he was only used for long distance shots at goal.

nganboy wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:If Halfpenny played for the ABs he wouldn't be under team orders to kick everything back and we'd see more of the HP in the 3rd Lions test and less of the excellent defensive fullback we get with Wales fly half. It's like having a trophy wife and not having your way with her. You just have her on display without getting to see what she's really made of. A luxury car that you use only for commuting instead of racing it with 14 other luxury cars on a track. It may not stand out as much but at least you're getting your money's worth.

If Halfpenny were a kiwi though he might not have kicking duties (he hasn't always been first choice kicker for Wales I understand) so he would then have to be better than Jane, Smith, Dagg at the other full back duties.

Course if you are not having your way with your trophy wife then someone else is.

If Halfpenny didn't get a look in for NZ then he might play for Wales due to his Welsh granny and then become the best full back in the world like Shane Howarth did.

I think any coach in the world when comparing what close to 97% accuracy (Halfpenny) in his career to 83% accuracy (Carter) is going to make one choice. So I think you can safely say that Halfpenny would be the kicker if in an All Black jersey.

Plus the little fact of missing one test tackle in 24 months puts him in a different universe to most FBs, not sure of the missed tackles with Dagg, Jane (I believe Smith has similar stats to 1/2p).

The Bachelor wrote:Read should probably get it being a standout performer in a dominant NZ team.

I would just like to point out to people comparing Halfpenny's kicking %'s and points per game vs the likes of Carter, Steyn et al that 1/2p became Wales' primary kicker at the start of 2012 6N; before that he was only used for long distance shots at goal.

That's because of his serious injuries in 2010 and 2011, otherwise he probably would have been their primary kicker well before that

Well we are looking at the 2013 player of the year....... so what's your point

flyhalffactory wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:Read should probably get it being a standout performer in a dominant NZ team.

I would just like to point out to people comparing Halfpenny's kicking %'s and points per game vs the likes of Carter, Steyn et al that 1/2p became Wales' primary kicker at the start of 2012 6N; before that he was only used for long distance shots at goal.

That's because of his serious injuries in 2010 and 2011, otherwise he probably would have been their primary kicker well before that

Well we are looking at the 2013 player of the year....... so what's your point

My point was that anyone comparing his career kicking statistics unfavourably with the above mentioned players might not be aware that he has not always been Wales' first choice kicker.

halfpenny was Wales long distant kicker just like henson was when it was to far for Stephen Jones (famous time winning kick against England ) . during the 2012 six nations priestland was having a nightmare at kicking prob first match and missed about 3 . halfpenny took over and remained the main kicker ever since

flyhalffactory wrote:

nganboy wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:If Halfpenny played for the ABs he wouldn't be under team orders to kick everything back and we'd see more of the HP in the 3rd Lions test and less of the excellent defensive fullback we get with Wales fly half. It's like having a trophy wife and not having your way with her. You just have her on display without getting to see what she's really made of. A luxury car that you use only for commuting instead of racing it with 14 other luxury cars on a track. It may not stand out as much but at least you're getting your money's worth.

If Halfpenny were a kiwi though he might not have kicking duties (he hasn't always been first choice kicker for Wales I understand) so he would then have to be better than Jane, Smith, Dagg at the other full back duties.

Course if you are not having your way with your trophy wife then someone else is.

If Halfpenny didn't get a look in for NZ then he might play for Wales due to his Welsh granny and then become the best full back in the world like Shane Howarth did.

I think any coach in the world when comparing what close to 97% accuracy (Halfpenny) in his career to 83% accuracy (Carter) is going to make one choice. So I think you can safely say that Halfpenny would be the kicker if in an All Black jersey.

Plus the little fact of missing one test tackle in 24 months puts him in a different universe to most FBs, not sure of the missed tackles with Dagg, Jane (I believe Smith has similar stats to 1/2p).

  He's missed on test tackle in 24 months has he ? That Welsh tryline must be nigh impossible to breach

flyhalffactory wrote:

nganboy wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:If Halfpenny played for the ABs he wouldn't be under team orders to kick everything back and we'd see more of the HP in the 3rd Lions test and less of the excellent defensive fullback we get with Wales fly half. It's like having a trophy wife and not having your way with her. You just have her on display without getting to see what she's really made of. A luxury car that you use only for commuting instead of racing it with 14 other luxury cars on a track. It may not stand out as much but at least you're getting your money's worth.

If Halfpenny were a kiwi though he might not have kicking duties (he hasn't always been first choice kicker for Wales I understand) so he would then have to be better than Jane, Smith, Dagg at the other full back duties.

Course if you are not having your way with your trophy wife then someone else is.

If Halfpenny didn't get a look in for NZ then he might play for Wales due to his Welsh granny and then become the best full back in the world like Shane Howarth did.

I think any coach in the world when comparing what close to 97% accuracy (Halfpenny) in his career to 83% accuracy (Carter) is going to make one choice. So I think you can safely say that Halfpenny would be the kicker if in an All Black jersey.

Plus the little fact of missing one test tackle in 24 months puts him in a different universe to most FBs, not sure of the missed tackles with Dagg, Jane (I believe Smith has similar stats to 1/2p).

How do i put this , if 1/2p had 1440 points to his name his accuracy would not be 97% . The more kicks you attempt the more you're likely to miss . Carter has attempted substantially more than Halfpenny hence his accuracy is lower . Besides if you were a coach and were told to pick a kicker with 315 points and 97% accuracy or one with 1200 points and 83% accuracy i know which one i'd pick.

1/2p would probably start for the ABs, IMO, in a position, he is quite underrated in the rest of his game as he doesn't get to show it off much. Probably start him at wing ahead of Pitau right now, with Pitau benching to cover 13-15

Bullsbok wrote:


  He's missed on test tackle in 24 months has he ? That Welsh tryline must be nigh impossible to breach

We hold the top two defensive records for tries condeded in the 6 Nations . We have been known to leak tries against Aus, SA and NZ though. Those teams are very difficult to defend against. Though it isn't anywhere near as bad as it was during the darker days.

Halfpenny doesn't have the same attacking abilities as piatau. Not as quick or as physical on the go. Piataus been groomed to attack above all else, halfpenny the exact opposite. In fact I've never known of telling a player not to be involved in the attack for whole tests...series even. In NZ that would be beaten out of him very quickly.

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

nganboy wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:If Halfpenny played for the ABs he wouldn't be under team orders to kick everything back and we'd see more of the HP in the 3rd Lions test and less of the excellent defensive fullback we get with Wales fly half. It's like having a trophy wife and not having your way with her. You just have her on display without getting to see what she's really made of. A luxury car that you use only for commuting instead of racing it with 14 other luxury cars on a track. It may not stand out as much but at least you're getting your money's worth.

If Halfpenny were a kiwi though he might not have kicking duties (he hasn't always been first choice kicker for Wales I understand) so he would then have to be better than Jane, Smith, Dagg at the other full back duties.

Course if you are not having your way with your trophy wife then someone else is.

If Halfpenny didn't get a look in for NZ then he might play for Wales due to his Welsh granny and then become the best full back in the world like Shane Howarth did.

I think any coach in the world when comparing what close to 97% accuracy (Halfpenny) in his career to 83% accuracy (Carter) is going to make one choice. So I think you can safely say that Halfpenny would be the kicker if in an All Black jersey.

Plus the little fact of missing one test tackle in 24 months puts him in a different universe to most FBs, not sure of the missed tackles with Dagg, Jane (I believe Smith has similar stats to 1/2p).

How do i put this , if 1/2p had 1440 points to his name his accuracy would not be 97% . The more kicks you attempt the more you're likely to miss . Carter has attempted substantially more than Halfpenny hence his accuracy is lower . Besides if you were a coach and were told to pick a kicker with 315 points and 97% accuracy or one with 1200 points and 83% accuracy i know which one i'd pick.

What a ridiculous statement to make it actually beggars belief!!, so you are saying the more experienced 1/2p gets, the more he kicks the less accurate he will become...... funny that then because he is now in his high 90s where he started much less.

I would also say the kicks for 1/2p are much more important for Wales hence he is under more pressure (than DC or MS) because of Wales overall quality and ability to score points otherwise (much less than the ABs or SA I mean).

So you are saying that at this very point in time you would pick a kicker with 83% chance of success than someone with 97% chance..... can you imagine the ABs forwards reactions to that "we are going to work our b0ll0cks off to gain the pens, and coach you select a kicker who is going to waste 14% more than that other guy...... come on mun coach!"