Read vs Halfpenny for World Player Of The Year

First topic message reminder :

Stuck on this one eh. Both have been in mesmeric form and have played huge hands in memorable wins for their teams. Happy with either.

Have read that Read benefits from the team around him this year which I don't believe. He's one of the standouts who would be missed more than the usual 7 and 10. Such a vital cog.

Halfpenny has been so assured all season and on form has probably been the best goalkicker in the game this year. Set up the try which broke the 3rd Lions test open.

No matter who wins, kudos to both for a brilliant year. (Half) Penny for your thoughts? See what I did there?

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Yes. For playing against a side that everyone who's anything beat.
Who would I rather have in the All Blacks of Read and Halfpenny?
Not worth the debate. Halfpenny would add nothing to this side. He would actually be a liability. We'd have to coach the non attacking thing out of him. Goalkicking would take a back seat.
In saying that both are fantastic players but we ain't seen halfpenny at his best.

Reads like a crock of shiate to me, but still 1/2 Penny best 15 in the world FACT

No mate, opinion is not fact.

I suspect "fact" may be the Welsh word for "opinion".  

Perhaps it is Warrior's interpretation of the word opinion, eh?

I think it will be unfair for us to think all Welsh interpret Opinion as fact.

In fact, I checked, the Welsh word for Opinion is "barn"

The Welsh word for Fact is "FFaith"

I suppose you may be right, ffaith - opinion, - believe - Fact.

If a player gets player of the year for kicking goals then that will be a sham(e)

I think that's what Carter got it for cos he didn't do much else.

Biltong wrote:I for one don't think he is the best Fullback in the world.

I believe to classify anyone as the best they must have no equal.

Halfpenny is the best goalkicker on the planet at the moment without doubt.

Dagg and Willie le Rouz are better attackers than Halfpenny. Both of them are brilliant in creating space for their support runners and create more tries than they score.

Folau's aerial ability is the best in the world. Although he is a strong runner, he tends not to offload once he created space for his support.

Halfpenny impressed with his attacking play against OZ in the third test, but from what I have witnessed he doesn't do that enough.

But, defensively none of them stand out. I know you say Halfpenny missed only one tackle, but defense is not only about tackling.

Folau is lazy in defense, Willie le Roux had some weak games in defense, Dagg similarly is not good in defence.

Brown from England shows promise.

Currently for me there isn't one fullback that stands out above the others.

Few things here
From a Scottish viewpoint I thought that Hogg should have been the Lions FB when the tour party was selected, I thought our man was better in all depts. than Halfpenny, the reality he did everything better than him. You can see the key areas where Halfpenny has concentrated on, and attacking runs and offensive runs is in most peoples eyes is one of the least important areas, "nice to have but not critical". Plus you can see he has been playing under orders however he still maintains a try every four games and an average of one assist per game, the frightening thing is Gatland has said that Wales this year will start playing "ball in hand from their own 22" this season. The last three international games has seen has seen Halfpenny make an average 63 METRES and make a try assist of 1.3 per game.

Attack:
The last three international games has seen Halfpenny make more passes, more runs, more yardage, and more assists than Dagg not sure about la Rouz. So lets put that fallacy that he is not an offensive FB to bed now, he does however make the "structured offensive" runs that doesn't grab the back page headlines.

Defence:
Not just one missed tackle this season, but one missed tackle in the last 24 months, I really don't know any back let alone any FB that has that record. But that's just part of his defensive repertoire, he is immense under the high ball just losing once in the 2013 6Ns, and just once on the 2013 Lions tour. His positional awareness and utter bravery in my opinion is his massive strengths though eclipsing his tackling/aerial qualities.

I think Halfpenny stands out more as a FB than say Read compares to the like of Parisse, et al

flyhalffactory wrote:

Biltong wrote:I for one don't think he is the best Fullback in the world.

I believe to classify anyone as the best they must have no equal.

Halfpenny is the best goalkicker on the planet at the moment without doubt.

Dagg and Willie le Rouz are better attackers than Halfpenny. Both of them are brilliant in creating space for their support runners and create more tries than they score.

Folau's aerial ability is the best in the world. Although he is a strong runner, he tends not to offload once he created space for his support.

Halfpenny impressed with his attacking play against OZ in the third test, but from what I have witnessed he doesn't do that enough.

But, defensively none of them stand out. I know you say Halfpenny missed only one tackle, but defense is not only about tackling.

Folau is lazy in defense, Willie le Roux had some weak games in defense, Dagg similarly is not good in defence.

Brown from England shows promise.

Currently for me there isn't one fullback that stands out above the others.

Few things here
From a Scottish viewpoint I thought that Hogg should have been the Lions FB when the tour party was selected, I thought our man was better in all depts. than Halfpenny, the reality he did everything better than him. You can see the key areas where Halfpenny has concentrated on, and attacking runs and offensive runs is in most peoples eyes is one of the least important areas, "nice to have but not critical". Plus you can see he has been playing under orders however he still maintains a try every four games and an average of one assist per game, the frightening thing is Gatland has said that Wales this year will start playing "ball in hand from their own 22" this season. The last three international games has seen has seen Halfpenny make an average 63 METRES and make a try assist of 1.3 per game.

Attack:
The last three international games has seen Halfpenny make more passes, more runs, more yardage, and more assists than Dagg not sure about la Rouz. So lets put that fallacy that he is not an offensive FB to bed now, he does however make the "structured offensive" runs that doesn't grab the back page headlines.

Defence:
Not just one missed tackle this season, but one missed tackle in the last 24 months, I really don't know any back let alone any FB that has that record. But that's just part of his defensive repertoire, he is immense under the high ball just losing once in the 2013 6Ns, and just once on the 2013 Lions tour. His positional awareness and utter bravery in my opinion is his massive strengths though eclipsing his tackling/aerial qualities.

I think Halfpenny stands out more as a FB than say Read compares to the like of Parisse, et al

The thing with stats is you can prove anything if you twist it just right . Like the whole 1 try every four games. What you fail to mention is he hasnt scored a try for Wales since feb 2013 against Ireland and he's played 9 games since then . Then of course theres the one missed tackle , and his positional awareness .This suggests to me he's excatly where you want your fullback to be when theres a linebreak, you want him to be the last line of defence. Now just because he's missed one tackle doesnt mean he hasnt let a few in .

Flyhalffactory, were do you guys get your stats?

I went onto Scrum.com just to see Halfpenny's defensive stats.

According to that he misses a couple more than just 1 tackle.

NZ last year, attempted 3 tackles missed 1
OZ last year, attempted 4 tackles missed 1
Lions first test, attempted 4 tackles missed 1
Lions third test, attempted 4 tackles missed 1
South Africa, attempted 4 tackles missed 1

He doesn't tackle very often, he averages 3 attempted tackles per game.

Even though the 1 missed tackle is incorrect, his defence is not bad, missing 5 of 33 attempted.

The point I am making is that stats can often be misleading depending the source.

Are you saying Halfpenny is like Lydiate and does a lot of unseen work?  

To be honest, I would rather have Le Roux, Dagg or Folau playing in my team than Halfpenny.  They are all great counter attacking players, and each have a great awareness of space and options around them.  Halfpenny on the other hand seems to have great awareness of his boot.  He is capable of being a good counter attacker, but the reality is he doesn't have the brain to know when to attack.  His first instinct will always be territory with the boot.

Until he can sort out that aspect of his game, he will always be behind these players.  His kicking is indeed world class though.

Biltong wrote:Flyhalffactory, were do you guys get your stats?

I went onto Scrum.com just to see Halfpenny's defensive stats.

According to that he misses a couple more than just 1 tackle.

NZ last year, attempted 3 tackles missed 1
OZ last year, attempted 4 tackles missed 1
Lions first test, attempted 4 tackles missed 1
Lions third test, attempted 4 tackles missed 1
South Africa, attempted 4 tackles missed 1

He doesn't tackle very often, he averages 3 attempted tackles per game.

Even though the 1 missed tackle is incorrect, his defence is not bad, missing 5 of 33 attempted.

The point I am making is that stats can often be misleading depending the source.

Thats 5 of 19

If you want to compare stats, here is it.

Le Roux 11 matches.

clean breaks 14
Defenders beaten 17
offloads 5
Try assists 6
Tries 3

Dagg 11 matches

Clean breaks 5
Defenders beaten 20
Offloads 8
Try assists 6
Tries 0

Folau 13 matches

Clean breaks 18
Defenders beaten 48
Offloads 22
Try assists 0
Tries 6

Leigh Halfpenny 12 matches

clean breaks 5
Defenders beaten 16
Offloads 7
Try assists 2
Tries 1

Looking at purely statistics, Folau apart from being lazy in defence (my opinion) is the best attacker of them all.

Bullsbok wrote:

Biltong wrote:Flyhalffactory, were do you guys get your stats?

I went onto Scrum.com just to see Halfpenny's defensive stats.

According to that he misses a couple more than just 1 tackle.

NZ last year, attempted 3 tackles missed 1
OZ last year, attempted 4 tackles missed 1
Lions first test, attempted 4 tackles missed 1
Lions third test, attempted 4 tackles missed 1
South Africa, attempted 4 tackles missed 1

He doesn't tackle very often, he averages 3 attempted tackles per game.

Even though the 1 missed tackle is incorrect, his defence is not bad, missing 5 of 33 attempted.

The point I am making is that stats can often be misleading depending the source.

Thats 5 of 19

No, I only showed the matches he missed tackles in, in total it is 11 matches (excluding the Lions matches) and 33 attempted tackles

flyhalffactory wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

MMaaxx wrote:I've said it on this thread already but it has got to be Read.

Has stood out this year more than anyone and performed at a ridiculous, unbelievable level while arguably playing against sterner opposition in tougher competitions. He is in such amazing form that he makes others seem average, really on a different level.

Halfpenny to me has been consistent without being amazing. I don't fear when he gets the ball as when Read does. Read has been a created and scorer of amazing tries all while getting through the dirty work an eight is expected to do.

Saying that Read performs in a team of world class players and thus at an advantage is convenient now. Over the last few years the amount of times here, Welsh press etc I've read that Wales have the best backrow, the best front row, the best back 3, the best scrum in the world blah blah blah, you'd think it was wales who were the real world class team.

Halfpenny has been as good as JDV, Etsebeth, Moore etc this year. 8 out of ten almost every game, really solid. But read has been at 9's and 10's. AMAZING!

Do you think Read is the best defensive 8 in the world, do you think he had a great defensive game against England last week?

He made 10 out of 10 tackles at 8, so actually he did have a pretty good defensive game at 8...

  

I was going to leave that one go on grounds of thinking maybe its getting to be a dog with a bone, but after you immature whistle, lets crank it up shall we?
* England's non try - out of position as a result was the only one of the ABs pack not to contribute to stopping the drive as he was off the ground on a tidal shove from the England pack
* England try - He came out of the retreating scrum too quickly leaving his pack rotating one way, ball came out the other side and under pressure he bundled the pick up... ahem I believe anyone else in rugby would have been crucified for that poor attempt
* Yellow card - Coming in clearly from the side - not only gave away 3 pts. unnecessary but also 10 mins in the bin.

Now I haven't looked at the other pens that came England's way so I am not going to say that's the only defensive blunders he made on the day but I will watch the entire match tomorrow

Once again- yellow card shouldnt have been given- England infringed first by not releasing the ball to Messam.
try should not have been given- Robshaw was offside and impeded the defence of the try scorer- Mccaw was all over the back of Robshaw.

Reason Read dropped the ball is because he was in his mind already setting off for the tryline at the opposite end oif the field and rushed the pick up.

At least Read tries things, is ALWAYS involved in something, somehow.

Where Halfpenny for many matches sits at the back waiting for the whistle to blow before he can come forward. As good as he is, and for whatever reason, I just can't concede the award over someone who deliberately stays out of a primary part of the role he is selected for- not for just one, but for several matches.

You criticise the things Read does attempt and get wrong, but not the things Halfpenny doesnt attempt to have a chance of getting it right, or wrong. If he attcked a lot more then we would have something to jusdge him on- I mean- he may even get to knock the ball on like Read- but how will we ever know...?

Simple reply yet again
I am not criticising I am just replying to the "perfect 10" Read that some are suggesting, I think he had an awesome attacking game was involved in the three tries, great off each foot, perfect 10 tackles made, perfect 3 lineout won, was a menace every time he had the ball, led by example and was close to the ABs best player, but there was some things he was off the wall with.

So lets get back to the actual events not your view
Immaterial if there was an initial infringement, Read came in from the side and gave away the penalty when as an experienced player he didn't need to do that that cost a direct 3 pts and another 3pts when he was off, there was no TMO looking at it, ditto Robshaws infringement again no TMO.
As far as previous 1/2ps lack of attacking intent as I suggested his relative inexperience in the FB role has seen him concentrate on the basic functions of the position. Now he is making yardage..... even though  Read made more breaks and yards than Halfpenny in many posters eyes he actually didn't in reality.


Passes
Read 7    Halfpenny 8

Runs made
Read 10   Halfpenny 10

Metres made
Read 51   Halfpenny 57

Read
Perfect tackle count
Perfect lineout count
1 try
1 assist
Yellow card
Pens given away = 1
Points given away direct = 3
Points given away indirect = 3

Halfpenny
20 points
8/9 kicks 89% accuracy
Pens given away direct = 0
pens given away indirect = 0

So pretty much even-stevens in my view

So 1/2p a fullback's stats are directly comparable to an 8th mans ? Do you mind getting the same stats for Israel Dagg . Wouldnt mind seeing those , or give me the source of your data and i'll find stats for five fullbacks to have a lil comparison

Sigh you are a glutton for punishment
Dagg
kicks 6 / passes 12  / runs 9  / metres made 50 / defenders beaten 0  / offloads 1 / turnovers against 2..... POINTS 0
Halfpenny
kicks 8 / passes 10  / runs 10 / metres made 57 / defenders beaten 1 / offloads 1 / turnovers against 1..... POINTS 20

You can safely say that the dynamic offensive Dagg against the dull defensive Halfpenny is a bit of a fallacy


Do you want me to give you halfpennys stats for the Lions v Australia
and see if you can find a stat that Dagg has had anything against Oz that compares


Few things to note Argentina were poor and Wales missed about 15-20 points which was disappointing, England were a much better quality of opponent and yet Dagg almost had the same stats as Halfpenny.... SO STATS ARE A POOR INDICATOR TO AN EXTENT AND ARE DEEMED TO INACCURACIES...
But
I think you can safely say the rubbish that Halfpenny doesn't attack is beginning to be put to bed

is this really comparing stats in Eng v NZ and Wal v Arg?  

quinsforever wrote:is this really comparing stats in Eng v NZ and Wal v Arg? picard

You haven't got much to say have you laddy...... nothing for you here

At least the ABs/SA guys on here have the ability and knowledge to give a valid response and counter argument

flyhalffactory wrote:

quinsforever wrote:is this really comparing stats in Eng v NZ and Wal v Arg? picard

You haven't got much to say have you laddy...... nothing for you here

At least the ABs/SA guys on here have the ability and knowledge to give a valid response and counter argument

i'll take that as a yes then. how about you do the same irrelevant comparison for the wal v aus game and eng v nz game for both players?

you should be flattered that the "knowledgeable" SA/NZ fans even bother to have a debate along the flawed lines you are laying out.

quinsforever wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

quinsforever wrote:is this really comparing stats in Eng v NZ and Wal v Arg? picard

You haven't got much to say have you laddy...... nothing for you here

At least the ABs/SA guys on here have the ability and knowledge to give a valid response and counter argument

i'll take that as a yes then. how about you do the same irrelevant comparison for the wal v aus game and eng v nz game for both players?

you should be flattered that the "knowledgeable" SA/NZ fans even bother to have a debate along the flawed lines you are laying out.

What's flawed laddy...... bit more meat on the bone please for the forum?

I have already stated the stats were taken from the most recent game of Read and 1/2p, then someone asked what's Daggs stats from the England game!!

WHATS FLAWED ABOUT THAT?

I could provide Halfpennys stats for the Lions test v Australia that's even better, or if you want I can provide the stats for his game when Wales beat England 30-3 now that's even better reading again

blackcanelion wrote:I suspect "fact" may be the Welsh word for "opinion".  

And in Kiwi, defeat translates to norovirus  

stop calling me laddy. its patronising and offensive.

the flaw lies in the margins of victory and hence the lack of downside to attacking and counterattacking play. eng v nz, nz were outscored and on the back foot for the larger (mins 15-65) portion of the game. wal v arg, with the dominance of wales, allowed 1/2P to counterattack at will, and join the attacking line with relative impugnity. do you not agree that the difference in quality of opposition, scoreline and threat of opposition in the backs has a big impact on 1/2P's stats?

Just to add to the discussion: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/10468260/Ireland-v-New-Zealand-Kieran-Read-is-the-metronome-that-makes-the-All-Blacks-tick.html

quinsforever wrote:stop calling me laddy. its patronising and offensive.

the flaw lies in the margins of victory and hence the lack of downside to attacking and counterattacking play.  eng v nz, nz were outscored and on the back foot for the larger (mins 15-65) portion of the game. wal v arg, with the dominance of wales, allowed 1/2P to counterattack at will, and join the attacking line with relative impugnity. do you not agree that the difference in quality of opposition, scoreline and threat of opposition in the backs has a big impact on 1/2P's stats?

I don't agree
The England game plan was to play expansive rugby in an open environment, thus providing an opportunity to counter attack by both sides. The Argentinian approach was forward driven, close "up the jumper" rugby and possession play, if anything the stats for the Eng v ABs games should be better as far as offensive play.

The Welsh boys clicked on the day but deffo could and should have finished off more try scoring opportunites (at least another 15-25 points) albeit everybody even the welsh posters will admit it was a poor Pumas side.

Halfpenny is bringing a more expansive side to his game since the final 2013 6Ns match and end of the Lions tour...... Mr Gatland from his press comments has taken that on board and had introduced it into the Welsh game this season

Don't patronise me by your immature one liners and   icon again or you will get the "laddy" back again OK?

MMaaxx wrote:Just to add to the discussion: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/10468260/Ireland-v-New-Zealand-Kieran-Read-is-the-metronome-that-makes-the-All-Blacks-tick.html

100% agree

so how were 1/2P's equivalent stats for the SA match?

quinsforever wrote:so how were 1/2P's equivalent stats for the SA match?

Lambie (SA FB)
Points = 2 (100%)
Kicks =  6
Passes = 5
Runs = 5
Metres made  = 17
Off Loads = 0
Tackles made = 4
Pens given away = 1 (3pts)

Halfpenny (Wales B)
Points = 15 (100%)
Kicks =  0
Passes = 1
Runs = 5
Metres made  = 26
Off Loads = 1
Tackles made = 3
Pens given away = 1 (3pts)

So apart from the SA FB kicking more, passing more he didn't do much else, and 1/2p made more metres, even though the fluency and offensive threat of Wales in-form centre Jon Davies and wing Liam Williams was negated as early as the 12 minute he still was the third highest metres made in the Welsh side

actually i watched the whole game, and lambie's kicking from hand was instrumental in the SA victory. they turned kick-chase into an extremely effective attacking weapon. the stats dont tell the whole story.

also, generally FBs (or whoever hangs deepest to catch the clearance kicks) are all going to have decent yards made if they are playing against a team that kicks a lot (unless they drop everything). fair to compare vs other FBs, but less meaningful to compare with someone who takes the ball more or less in line with the defense.

and if comparing 1/2P vs Read, the SA and NZ games, ie the tight, hard games, show the bigger role in the match of 8 than 15 IMO (place kicking aside).

Lambie went to the flyhalf position 19 minutes into the game as Morne Steyn got injured.

You have to look at Willie le Roux for the 60 minutes he was on.

quinsforever wrote:actually i watched the whole game, and lambie's kicking from hand was instrumental in the SA victory. they turned kick-chase into an extremely effective attacking weapon. the stats dont tell the whole story.

also, generally FBs (or whoever hangs deepest to catch the clearance kicks) are all going to have decent yards made if they are playing against a team that kicks a lot (unless they drop everything). fair to compare vs other FBs, but less meaningful to compare with someone who takes the ball more or less in line with the defense.

and if comparing 1/2P vs Read, the SA and NZ games, ie the tight, hard games, show the bigger role in the match of 8 than 15 IMO (place kicking aside).

The issue with Halfpenny is on this topic is that he is all about kicking and nothing else, when I state that he actually runs a lot more than people realise and even kicks less from hand than his equivalent then that is not right.

Personally I really don't care who wins the title as I am more cheesed off that Hogg has been out almost since the Lions tour ended.

I agree stats never tell the whole story, but when you get posters who bang on about Dagg being a more offensive threat etc etc then it gets a bit bemusing, so the only way is to look at the data.

fair enough.

will be interesting to see who the shortlist is aside from read and 1/2P.

quinsforever wrote:fair enough.

will be interesting to see who the shortlist is aside from read and 1/2P.

It won't have any English players so don't worry.

 

The Saint wrote:

quinsforever wrote:fair enough.

will be interesting to see who the shortlist is aside from read and 1/2P.

It won't have any English players so don't worry.

 

Bit harsh. North could make the list

still have my fingers crossed for jonny wilkinson to add to his European POTY 2013 with the IRB award... 

if not him, then surely Steffon Armitage should be on the shortlist?  

no-one from the actual England team though, i agree.

Short list announced:

Leigh Halfpenny - Wales and British & Irish Lions
Sergio Parisse - Italy
Kieran Read - New Zealand
Ben Smith - New Zealand
Eben Etzebeth - South Africa

JDV is possibly the most unluckiest not to make the list.
Good year for Eben and just havnt seen enough of Parisse this year.
Halfpenny is the only player that can score points off the Lions series and the two kiwis will definitely cancel each other out and possibly bring some of Ebens chances down Smith and Read taking some of the NZ SA matches out.

Taylorman wrote:JDV is possibly the most unluckiest not to make the list.
Good year for Eben and just havnt seen enough of Parisse this year.
Halfpenny is the only player that can score points off the Lions series and the two kiwis will definitely cancel each other out and possibly bring some of Ebens chances down Smith and Read taking some of the NZ SA matches out.

It would be a shame if thats the case , Read has been superb and that cant be said enough

I doubt de Villiers is worried about it, he doesn't strike me as the type of player concerned with personal achievements or accolades.

Parisse? Can't say I've seen anything standout from him this past year. JDV was unlucky but ah well. Good list, probably Read to take it unless Halfpenny can be instrumental in a Wales win verus Aus.

Bullsbok wrote:

Taylorman wrote:JDV is possibly the most unluckiest not to make the list.
Good year for Eben and just havnt seen enough of Parisse this year.
Halfpenny is the only player that can score points off the Lions series and the two kiwis will definitely cancel each other out and possibly bring some of Ebens chances down Smith and Read taking some of the NZ SA matches out.

It would be a shame if thats the case , Read has been superb and that cant be said enough

You bang about this all through this thread but looking at the history of the nominations and actual winner its never been the case of if more than one of the same nationality does it dilute their chances

2001 Keith Wood (Ire)
George Gregan Aus
Brian O'Driscoll Ire
George Smith Aus
Jonny Wilkinson Eng

2002 Fabien Galthié (Fra)
Richie McCaw NZ
Joe van Niekerk SA
Brian O'Driscoll Ire
Jason Robinson Eng

2003 Jonny Wilkinson (Engl)
Imanol Harinordoquy Fra
Richie McCaw NZ
Steve Thompson Eng
Phil Waugh Aus

2004 Schalk Burger (SA)
Serge Betsen Fra
Gordon D'Arcy Ire
Matt Giteau Aus
Marius Joubert SA

2005 Daniel Carter (NZ)
Bryan Habana SA
Victor Matfield SA
Richie McCaw NZ
Tana Umaga NZ

2006 Richie McCaw (NZ)
Daniel Carter NZ
Chris Latham Aus
Paul O'Connell Ire
Fourie du Preez SA

2007 Bryan Habana (SA)
Felipe Contepomi Arg
Juan M. Hernández Arg
Yannick Jauzion Fra
Richie McCaw NZ

2008 Shane Williams (Wal)
Mike Blair Sco
Daniel Carter NZ
Ryan Jones Wal
Sergio Parisse Arg

2009 Richie McCaw (NZ)
Jamie Heaslip Ire
Brian O'Driscoll Ire
Fourie du Preez SA
Francois Steyn SA
Matt Giteau Aus
Tom Croft Eng

2010 Richie McCaw (NZ)
Mils Muliaina NZ
Victor Matfield SA
Imanol Harinordoquy Fra
David Pocock Aus
Kurtley Beale Aus

2011 Thierry Dusautoir (Fra)
Piri Weepu NZ
Jerome Kaino NZ
Ma'a Nonu NZ
David Pocock Aus
Will Genia Aus

2012 Dan Carter (NZ)
Owen Farrell Eng
Frederic Michalak Fra
Richie McCaw NZ

2013  
South Africa Eben Etzebeth
Wales Leigh Halfpenny
Italy Sergio Parisse
New Zealand Kieran Read
New Zealand Ben Smith

So I think perhaps only one or two occasions has a single nation player won, there has been years where there has been 3 out of 5 nominations the same country yet still one of them has won. So unless you know how the voting structure works (because I don't fully) I am wondering why you seem to think as there is two ABs on the list it will be more advantageous to the other players.

You seem to suggest just because Halfpenny has played in the Lions series he has some advantage in the selection panels eyes!!, strange as a Lion didn't win in 2009 or 2005..... this is about ALL the test games the players have played in not specific ones.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Taylorman wrote:JDV is possibly the most unluckiest not to make the list.
Good year for Eben and just havnt seen enough of Parisse this year.
Halfpenny is the only player that can score points off the Lions series and the two kiwis will definitely cancel each other out and possibly bring some of Ebens chances down Smith and Read taking some of the NZ SA matches out.

It would be a shame if thats the case , Read has been superb and that cant be said enough

You bang about this all through this thread but looking at the history of the nominations and actual winner its never been the case of if more than one of the same nationality does it dilute their chances

2001 Keith Wood (Ire)
George Gregan Aus
Brian O'Driscoll Ire
George Smith Aus
Jonny Wilkinson Eng

2002 Fabien Galthié (Fra)
Richie McCaw NZ
Joe van Niekerk SA
Brian O'Driscoll Ire
Jason Robinson Eng

2003 Jonny Wilkinson (Engl)
Imanol Harinordoquy Fra
Richie McCaw NZ
Steve Thompson Eng
Phil Waugh Aus

2004 Schalk Burger (SA)
Serge Betsen Fra
Gordon D'Arcy Ire
Matt Giteau Aus
Marius Joubert SA

2005 Daniel Carter (NZ)
Bryan Habana SA
Victor Matfield SA
Richie McCaw NZ
Tana Umaga NZ

2006 Richie McCaw (NZ)
Daniel Carter NZ
Chris Latham Aus
Paul O'Connell Ire
Fourie du Preez SA

2007 Bryan Habana (SA)
Felipe Contepomi Arg
Juan M. Hernández Arg
Yannick Jauzion Fra
Richie McCaw NZ

2008 Shane Williams (Wal)
Mike Blair Sco
Daniel Carter NZ
Ryan Jones Wal
Sergio Parisse Arg

2009 Richie McCaw (NZ)
Jamie Heaslip Ire
Brian O'Driscoll Ire
Fourie du Preez SA
Francois Steyn SA
Matt Giteau Aus
Tom Croft Eng

2010 Richie McCaw (NZ)
Mils Muliaina NZ
Victor Matfield SA
Imanol Harinordoquy Fra
David Pocock Aus
Kurtley Beale Aus

2011 Thierry Dusautoir (Fra)
Piri Weepu NZ
Jerome Kaino NZ
Ma'a Nonu NZ
David Pocock Aus
Will Genia Aus

2012 Dan Carter (NZ)
Owen Farrell Eng
Frederic Michalak Fra
Richie McCaw NZ

2013  
South Africa Eben Etzebeth
Wales Leigh Halfpenny
Italy Sergio Parisse
New Zealand Kieran Read
New Zealand Ben Smith

So I think perhaps only one or two occasions has a single nation player won, there has been years where there has been 3 out of 5 nominations the same country yet still one of them has won. So unless you know how the voting structure works (because I don't fully) I am wondering why you seem to think as there is two ABs on the list it will be more advantageous to the other players.

You seem to suggest just because Halfpenny has played in the Lions series he has some advantage in the selection panels eyes!!, strange as a Lion didn't win in 2009 or 2005..... this is about ALL the test games the players have played in not specific ones.

He's suggesting because 1/2p contributed to a Lions win . Just like Carter in 05

No I hope youre right Bullsbok. That was my own interpretation of the way the voting went but I did wonder about those DC MCaw doubles. Still cant see how it doesnt pan out that way but happy to be completely wrong...

Taylorman wrote:No I hope youre right Bullsbok. That was my own interpretation of the way the voting went but I did wonder about those DC MCaw doubles. Still cant see how it doesnt pan out that way but happy to be completely wrong...

Maybe voting comes down to the final two ? Or rather i hope its a process of elimination and it comes down to two. That way its fair and theres no vote splitting

If voters are asked to rank all the nominees (5 points for first, down to one point for last in a list of five) the that would get around the problem of split votes.

The only question then is whether you give any weight to a player getting the most top nominations, or simply count up the total number of points.

Not sure if that's actually how they go about it, mind you.

Yes you both could be right. If voting is reset to zero at the final nomination point that would make sense.

Read deserves it and so does halfpenny

The award isn't fullback of the year is it?

It player and with both the Lions and Six Nations player fo the series he deserves to be in the short list.

Give all the stats you want, it doesn't mean anything, Halfpenny has a great year and deserves just as much to win as Read doesn't.

Personally i'm happy for either to have it as they have both been great in their individual teams this year.