What the hell is going on in Wales?

First topic message reminder :

Hello knowledgeable Welsh friends. I've read some extraordinary things lately about the war between the regions and the union in Wales, but being an outsider, and not following this closely for years I'm not sure what's real and what's nonsense. Can someone please help clarify a few things for me?

1. I read that the WRU have a deal with the regions that they will each be given the same amount of money annually by the union for the next five years. This was interpreted by some as the union deciding to slowly let the regions go bust so they can set up new regions that they would own. Is this really the case?  It sounds completely crazy to me! Wouldn't this be a disaster in Welsh rugby and couldn't they try to buy the regions instead since they have more money now? Could this really be a plan?

2. The WRU is making a profit and with the millenium stadium paid off should have plenty of money to splash about in the future. (Or do they?) As they won't give more money to the regions this suggests that they want the regions to founder (see above).

3. Although the WRU pay millions to the regions annually they have little or no say in how they are run so are deeply frustrated with the regions. Also the regions can't stand the WRU even though they're keeping them afloat. Is this true and why?

4. The WRU offered central contracts to the players in the regions but the regions rejected this. Even though they would have a smaller wage bill if it went ahead. Why?
The regions have the lowest salary cap in Europe and keep losing their best players. But the regions won't let the WRU pay the internationals out of a central contract. As players have to be released anyway to play for Wales I don't see why the clubs wouldn't be delighted to do this. Are they afraid that they would lose them to too many training camps? I don't follow the logic of this. If the WRU paid the players then surely the regions would be able to keep more of their best players playing in Wales which surely would benefit them as they'd have stronger teams. Again I don't get why this is such a problem.

(Please don't include the possible move to the AP on this thread. It's being debated elsewhere.)

I think the WRU and the RU have to agree. Add to that I would also think that all of the English clubs must agree.

I just do not see how it can happen.


A Merry Christmas to everyone

Intotouch wrote:Thank you Hammer! Same to you!

Can anyone clear something up for me? On this thread some people have said that the regions can join the AP and that the WRU can't stop them and if it goes to court that the regions will win, others have said that there are a few reasons why they can't join the AP and that it will never happen. Which is true?

All teams within a geographically area need the approval of the union that covers that geographical area. However if a team feels that the refusal to approve is unlawful they can take them to court. So the regions would claim the WRU refusal to allow them in the Jeff is for unlawful reasons.

The courts forced the RFU to change the minimum criteria for the Jeff as the previous ones were unlawful so a union can be overruled. No idea if it would work this time

Intotouch wrote:Thank you Hammer! Same to you!

Can anyone clear something up for me? On this thread some people have said that the regions can join the AP and that the WRU can't stop them and if it goes to court that the regions will win, others have said that there are a few reasons why they can't join the AP and that it will never happen. Which is true?

No idea. Can I phone a friend?

Turks v Ospreys is a sell out which is marvelous.
Looking forward, as always, to see them smash the living daylights out of each other.
Hoping for an Os win obviously.

This Scarlets Ospreys darby is great stuff.

Intotouch wrote:Thank you Hammer! Same to you!

Can anyone clear something up for me? On this thread some people have said that the regions can join the AP and that the WRU can't stop them and if it goes to court that the regions will win, others have said that there are a few reasons why they can't join the AP and that it will never happen. Which is true?

The regions are based in Wales and therefore need to be affiliated to the WRU. They could only join the Aviva if they, the WRU, RFU, and PRL agree. However the WRU have tied themselves into a deal to stay in the Rabo until 2017, because they have tied themselves into a tv contract with Sky.

The case being made is Newport FC remade reopened and the Welsh FA wanted them to join the Wales football league, but prior to that Newport FC were in the English system like Cardiff and Swansea and because they were in the English system previously they were able to stay there. I can't see how any of that applies to rugby though as the regions have never closed and were never in the English system.

Artful_Dodger wrote:This Scarlets Ospreys darby is great stuff.

It was a brilliant game and fair dos, they smashed the crap out of each other at 100mph for 80mins.
Best team won (just), but the Llanelli Stars should've nicked it at the death. Maybe a 5m scrum rather than a lineout possibly?

I said exactly that CD

So no one knows for sure if the regions can join the AP or not? That's a really strange position for them to be in. It sounds like they're taking a real gamble by pushing a legal battle so that they can join this competition.

Intotouch wrote:So no one knows for sure if the regions can join the AP or not? That's a really strange position for them to be in. It sounds like they're taking a real gamble by pushing a legal battle so that they can join this competition.

The WRU and the clubs (and players for a time) have been at loggerheads for years and years. Even before the pseudo-regionalism fix. Let's get to court and sort it once and for all.

If the current 4 pro-clubs in Wales did join the AP then who is going to fund them? The WRU already have made it clear they dont want to fund them that much and being as all AP clubs are self-sufficient would the 4 clubs being funded by an external union be welcome in a league where all the other teams are self-funded? Cardiff are the only ones I think who could afford to be self-sufficient and even the horrible pieman seems reluctant to put the cash in that much anymore

Steffan wrote:If the current 4 pro-clubs in Wales did join the AP then who is going to fund them? The WRU already have made it clear they dont want to fund them that much and being as all AP clubs are self-sufficient would the 4 clubs being funded by an external union be welcome in a league where all the other teams are self-funded? Cardiff are the only ones I think who could afford to be self-sufficient and even the horrible pieman seems reluctant to put the cash in that much anymore

I rest my case m'lud.

The four clubs wouldnt last long in the AP I reckon. Think two of them would be headed the Division 1 after a season. Still if I was watching an East Wales team play Munster and Ulster etc followed by Ponty giving someone a pasting on a Saturday afternoon what would I care  

Steffan wrote:The four clubs wouldnt last long in the AP I reckon. Think two of them would be headed the Division 1 after a season. Still if I was watching an East Wales team play Munster and Ulster etc followed by Ponty giving someone a pasting on a Saturday afternoon what would I care  

Agree on Guinness and I quite fancy one now, but i'm not so sure of the rest of your mad dream. Who would Ponty paste for a kick off?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:The four clubs wouldnt last long in the AP I reckon. Think two of them would be headed the Division 1 after a season. Still if I was watching an East Wales team play Munster and Ulster etc followed by Ponty giving someone a pasting on a Saturday afternoon what would I care  

Agree on Guinness and I quite fancy one now, but i'm not so sure of the rest of your mad dream. Who would Ponty paste for a kick off?

Why a mad dream? And I mean Ponty beating someone in the Welsh Prem as they do now

Steffan wrote:If the current 4 pro-clubs in Wales did join the AP then who is going to fund them? The WRU already have made it clear they dont want to fund them that much and being as all AP clubs are self-sufficient would the 4 clubs being funded by an external union be welcome in a league where all the other teams are self-funded? Cardiff are the only ones I think who could afford to be self-sufficient and even the horrible pieman seems reluctant to put the cash in that much anymore

Christ, this is getting tiresome now. If the regions join the premiership then they get tv and competition money.
Which is what makes up the vast majority of their current funding . Plus, the regions are annoyed that the union has negotiated poorer deals for the Rabo and the HC than their Irish and Scottish counterparts, so they may even get more than they're currently (if they negotiate themselves).

I don't want them to leave the Rabo, but I get so annoyed when people suggest that the WRU bankroll the regions when they mainly just redistribute the tv money that the regions earn (£9m).

Tell you what's funny; a lot is made about the money paid as part of the participation agreement, but nothing is mentioned about the £1m a year the WRU receives for allowing the Italian teams into the Rabo. Surely that should be given to the regions. Or is it, just disguised as participation payments?

Steffan wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:The four clubs wouldnt last long in the AP I reckon. Think two of them would be headed the Division 1 after a season. Still if I was watching an East Wales team play Munster and Ulster etc followed by Ponty giving someone a pasting on a Saturday afternoon what would I care  

Agree on Guinness and I quite fancy one now, but i'm not so sure of the rest of your mad dream. Who would Ponty paste for a kick off?

Why a mad dream? And I mean Ponty beating someone in the Welsh Prem as they do now

And what teams are Ponty beating these days?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:The four clubs wouldnt last long in the AP I reckon. Think two of them would be headed the Division 1 after a season. Still if I was watching an East Wales team play Munster and Ulster etc followed by Ponty giving someone a pasting on a Saturday afternoon what would I care  

Agree on Guinness and I quite fancy one now, but i'm not so sure of the rest of your mad dream. Who would Ponty paste for a kick off?

Why a mad dream? And I mean Ponty beating someone in the Welsh Prem as they do now

And what teams are Ponty beating these days?

Cardiff RFC like earlier on today for starters  

Steffan wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:The four clubs wouldnt last long in the AP I reckon. Think two of them would be headed the Division 1 after a season. Still if I was watching an East Wales team play Munster and Ulster etc followed by Ponty giving someone a pasting on a Saturday afternoon what would I care  

Agree on Guinness and I quite fancy one now, but i'm not so sure of the rest of your mad dream. Who would Ponty paste for a kick off?

Why a mad dream? And I mean Ponty beating someone in the Welsh Prem as they do now

And what teams are Ponty beating these days?

Cardiff RFC like earlier on today for starters  

Well done Ponty then. You must be over the moon. Congrats etc.

Cardiff Dave wrote:Well done Ponty then. You must be over the moon. Congrats etc.

Nothing to be that proud of really. Was only the Cardiff 'B' team I guess

Steffan wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Well done Ponty then. You must be over the moon. Congrats etc.

Nothing to be that proud of really. Was only the Cardiff 'B' team I guess

I wouldn't refer to it as a Cardiff "B" team exactly, but it was a sort of a team nonetheless. Something they have to do I suppose. No worries though, if the 4 join the English then Ponty can play against my village side in their stead.

Look forward to it  

Steffan wrote:Look forward to it  

Why? Coz Ponty, the team you support, could very well be less than the side that they beat today.

Griff wrote:

Steffan wrote:If the current 4 pro-clubs in Wales did join the AP then who is going to fund them? The WRU already have made it clear they dont want to fund them that much and being as all AP clubs are self-sufficient would the 4 clubs being funded by an external union be welcome in a league where all the other teams are self-funded? Cardiff are the only ones I think who could afford to be self-sufficient and even the horrible pieman seems reluctant to put the cash in that much anymore

Christ, this is getting tiresome now. If the regions join the premiership then they get tv and competition money.
Which is what makes up the vast majority of their current funding . Plus, the regions are annoyed that the union has negotiated poorer deals for the Rabo and the HC than their Irish and Scottish counterparts, so they may even get more than they're currently (if they negotiate themselves).

I don't want them to leave the Rabo, but I get so annoyed when people suggest that the WRU bankroll the regions when they mainly just redistribute the tv money that the regions earn (£9m).

Tell you what's funny; a lot is made about the money paid as part of the participation agreement, but nothing is mentioned about the £1m a year the WRU receives for allowing the Italian teams into the Rabo. Surely that should be given to the regions. Or is it, just disguised as participation payments?

Yup. You're right in the details you mention. You've left one thing out ... or rather you haven't really emphasised this key point. The WRU nominate these sides as Wales' representatives in the cross border competitions in which they participate. Those competitions are organised by the Unions and the TV monies negotiated by them. So far so what? If the regions don't sign and the WRU pull the places in the competitions along with the associated funds the regions have to go cap in hand to the PRL to play in their league, a move that would ultimately have to be sanctioned by the IRB. What precisely do we know has been offered to RRW to play in an Anglo Welsh? These regions, who have been pants in marketing themselves ... and by pants I mean frayed 20 yr old moth eaten pants ... how will they suddenly become effective money making enterprises by virtue of joining a different league?

Bottom line is as far as I'm concerned is that the regions are a busted flush. WRU hold the cards here. They hold the purse strings, they negotiate the big money deals, they also have the great cash cow - the Welsh team. RRW is between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they can tell the WRU to poff and try join the english - not a definite or secure prospect at any rate - on the other they can acquiesce to the WRU and fail utterly to be a relevant force in the european club game, suffering a slow death as the fans abandon teams with no realistic prospects of progress and no star players.

I said it before and I'll say it again - I hate the way this turned out. With hand on heart I hoped that the Scarlets would become the Dyfed region and that the others would become regional identities in their own rights. The truth is, it hasn't happened. Too many fans are disenfranchised. The regions can't afford to compete and are constantly at loggerheads with the conflicting demands of the international game. This club-country tension exists in plenty of sports and is resolved in different ways. We have to ask ourselves what our priority is in Welsh Rugby. Personally, and just my opinion here, it's the national team. Consequently I believe that it's time to bring an end to the club/country row - for me that means reforming the structure of Welsh rugby. Sadly I can't see how the regions can exist in their current guises if Team Wales is the focus. That leaves me gutted as a lifelong Scarlets/Llanelli fan. But I will say this ... if we get this wrong and rugby goes mammaries to the sky in Wales I will be even more gutted. I love the game and I just want to see Wales succeed for years to come, not just the odd decent 6N.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:Look forward to it  

Why? Coz Ponty, the team you support, could very well be less than the side that they beat today.

Im really not too sure what point you are trying to make here Dave...

Well said by the way Totallybiasedscarlet  

Steffan wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:Look forward to it  

Why? Coz Ponty, the team you support, could very well be less than the side that they beat today.

Im really not too sure what point you are trying to make here Dave...

I'm not surprised either.

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Griff wrote:

Steffan wrote:If the current 4 pro-clubs in Wales did join the AP then who is going to fund them? The WRU already have made it clear they dont want to fund them that much and being as all AP clubs are self-sufficient would the 4 clubs being funded by an external union be welcome in a league where all the other teams are self-funded? Cardiff are the only ones I think who could afford to be self-sufficient and even the horrible pieman seems reluctant to put the cash in that much anymore

Christ, this is getting tiresome now. If the regions join the premiership then they get tv and competition money.
Which is what makes up the vast majority of their current funding . Plus, the regions are annoyed that the union has negotiated poorer deals for the Rabo and the HC than their Irish and Scottish counterparts, so they may even get more than they're currently (if they negotiate themselves).

I don't want them to leave the Rabo, but I get so annoyed when people suggest that the WRU bankroll the regions when they mainly just redistribute the tv money that the regions earn (£9m).

Tell you what's funny; a lot is made about the money paid as part of the participation agreement, but nothing is mentioned about the £1m a year the WRU receives for allowing the Italian teams into the Rabo. Surely that should be given to the regions. Or is it, just disguised as participation payments?

Yup. You're right in the details you mention. You've left one thing out ... or rather you haven't really emphasised this key point. The WRU nominate these sides as Wales' representatives in the cross border competitions in which they participate. Those competitions are organised by the Unions and the TV monies negotiated by them. So far so what? If the regions don't sign and the WRU pull the places in the competitions along with the associated funds the regions have to go cap in hand to the PRL to play in their league, a move that would ultimately have to be sanctioned by the IRB. What precisely do we know has been offered to RRW to play in an Anglo Welsh? These regions, who have been pants in marketing themselves ... and by pants I mean frayed 20 yr old moth eaten pants ... how will they suddenly become effective money making enterprises by virtue of joining a different league?

Bottom line is as far as I'm concerned is that the regions are a busted flush. WRU hold the cards here. They hold the purse strings, they negotiate the big money deals, they also have the great cash cow - the Welsh team. RRW is between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they can tell the WRU to poff and try join the english - not a definite or secure prospect at any rate - on the other they can acquiesce to the WRU and fail utterly to be a relevant force in the european club game, suffering a slow death as the fans abandon teams with no realistic prospects of progress and no star players.

I said it before and I'll say it again - I hate the way this turned out. With hand on heart I hoped that the Scarlets would become the Dyfed region and that the others would become regional identities in their own rights. The truth is, it hasn't happened. Too many fans are disenfranchised. The regions can't afford to compete and are constantly at loggerheads with the conflicting demands of the international game. This club-country tension exists in plenty of sports and is resolved in different ways. We have to ask ourselves what our priority is in Welsh Rugby. Personally, and just my opinion here, it's the national team. Consequently I believe that it's time to bring an end to the club/country row - for me that means reforming the structure of Welsh rugby. Sadly I can't see how the regions can exist in their current guises if Team Wales is the focus. That leaves me gutted as a lifelong Scarlets/Llanelli fan. But I will say this ... if we get this wrong and rugby goes mammaries to the sky in Wales I will be even more gutted. I love the game and I just want to see Wales succeed for years to come, not just the odd decent 6N.

Can't argue with anything you've said there to be honest. Good response.

I appreciate that the WRU negotiates the tv deals, but I don't think it's fair to say that the regions couldn't do it themselves, especially when if rumours are to be believed the WRU has negotiated poorly in relation to their Irish and Scottish counterparts. You say the regions are crap at marketing, but that's presumably based on the fact that they can't sell out their stadiums. However, we know from all of this debate that factors that influence regional attendances runs a lots deeper than just marketing.

I don't know the answers either. I would love a truly regional model, but I can't see people getting behind it because we don't have existing regions to base them on so we'd have people feeling left out or not identifying. East Wales for example; what is that?! I don't identify with it. It has no history. No coat of arms that people can recognise and feel drawn to. No colours that represent that area. Nothing that bonds all of those people who would fall into the East Wales made up boundary line together. So you call them East Wales, you put them in a neutral kit that isn't linked to current teams (e.g. White) and you stick a new badge on their kit - but they have to play at a current ground due to finance. So it's likely that an East Wales team would play in deepest darkest South Wales, and the capital city would be the best place marketing wise. So this all whites East Wales team playing at Cardiff Arms Park. I just can't see the current disenfranchised people from Pontypridd, Merthyr, Ebbw Vale, etc. turning out to watch a side at the arms park. It's what we ask them to do now and they (mainly) don't want to do it. Just changing the name and the kit won't change that. But that's just my opinion. I'd be willing to give it a try though.

Griff wrote:Tell you what's funny; a lot is made about the money paid as part of the participation agreement, but nothing is mentioned about the £1m a year the WRU receives for allowing the Italian teams into the Rabo. Surely that should be given to the regions. Or is it, just disguised as participation payments?

The £3m is split 10 ways between the other teams and they all recieve £300k each per season for travel expenses to Italy. It's in the Italian thread ^^

I don't believe that. I might be intended to work like that, but my understanding is that the WRU gets the money. I don't see where it is then distributed to the regions.

The WRU get the money and it's distributed to the regions. That's why this year they get £16.6M. £6M for player release, etc. £9M for TV and sponsorship. And £1M from the Italians.

Griff wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Griff wrote:

Steffan wrote:If the current 4 pro-clubs in Wales did join the AP then who is going to fund them? The WRU already have made it clear they dont want to fund them that much and being as all AP clubs are self-sufficient would the 4 clubs being funded by an external union be welcome in a league where all the other teams are self-funded? Cardiff are the only ones I think who could afford to be self-sufficient and even the horrible pieman seems reluctant to put the cash in that much anymore

Christ, this is getting tiresome now. If the regions join the premiership then they get tv and competition money.
Which is what makes up the vast majority of their current funding . Plus, the regions are annoyed that the union has negotiated poorer deals for the Rabo and the HC than their Irish and Scottish counterparts, so they may even get more than they're currently (if they negotiate themselves).

I don't want them to leave the Rabo, but I get so annoyed when people suggest that the WRU bankroll the regions when they mainly just redistribute the tv money that the regions earn (£9m).

Tell you what's funny; a lot is made about the money paid as part of the participation agreement, but nothing is mentioned about the £1m a year the WRU receives for allowing the Italian teams into the Rabo. Surely that should be given to the regions. Or is it, just disguised as participation payments?

Yup. You're right in the details you mention. You've left one thing out ... or rather you haven't really emphasised this key point. The WRU nominate these sides as Wales' representatives in the cross border competitions in which they participate. Those competitions are organised by the Unions and the TV monies negotiated by them. So far so what? If the regions don't sign and the WRU pull the places in the competitions along with the associated funds the regions have to go cap in hand to the PRL to play in their league, a move that would ultimately have to be sanctioned by the IRB. What precisely do we know has been offered to RRW to play in an Anglo Welsh? These regions, who have been pants in marketing themselves ... and by pants I mean frayed 20 yr old moth eaten pants ... how will they suddenly become effective money making enterprises by virtue of joining a different league?

Bottom line is as far as I'm concerned is that the regions are a busted flush. WRU hold the cards here. They hold the purse strings, they negotiate the big money deals, they also have the great cash cow - the Welsh team. RRW is between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they can tell the WRU to poff and try join the english - not a definite or secure prospect at any rate - on the other they can acquiesce to the WRU and fail utterly to be a relevant force in the european club game, suffering a slow death as the fans abandon teams with no realistic prospects of progress and no star players.

I said it before and I'll say it again - I hate the way this turned out. With hand on heart I hoped that the Scarlets would become the Dyfed region and that the others would become regional identities in their own rights. The truth is, it hasn't happened. Too many fans are disenfranchised. The regions can't afford to compete and are constantly at loggerheads with the conflicting demands of the international game. This club-country tension exists in plenty of sports and is resolved in different ways. We have to ask ourselves what our priority is in Welsh Rugby. Personally, and just my opinion here, it's the national team. Consequently I believe that it's time to bring an end to the club/country row - for me that means reforming the structure of Welsh rugby. Sadly I can't see how the regions can exist in their current guises if Team Wales is the focus. That leaves me gutted as a lifelong Scarlets/Llanelli fan. But I will say this ... if we get this wrong and rugby goes mammaries to the sky in Wales I will be even more gutted. I love the game and I just want to see Wales succeed for years to come, not just the odd decent 6N.

Can't argue with anything you've said there to be honest. Good response.

I appreciate that the WRU negotiates the tv deals, but I don't think it's fair to say that the regions couldn't do it themselves, especially when if rumours are to be believed the WRU has negotiated poorly in relation to their Irish and Scottish counterparts. You say the regions are crap at marketing, but that's presumably based on the fact that they can't sell out their stadiums. However, we know from all of this debate that factors that influence regional attendances runs a lots deeper than just marketing.

I don't know the answers either. I would love a truly regional model, but I can't see people getting behind it because we don't have existing regions to base them on so we'd have people feeling left out or not identifying. East Wales for example; what is that?! I don't identify with it. It has no history. No coat of arms that people can recognise and feel drawn to. No colours that represent that area. Nothing that bonds all of those people who would fall into the East Wales made up boundary line together. So you call them East Wales, you put them in a neutral kit that isn't linked to current teams (e.g. White) and you stick a new badge on their kit - but they have to play at a current ground due to finance. So it's likely that an East Wales team would play in deepest darkest South Wales, and the capital city would be the best place marketing wise. So this all whites East Wales team playing at Cardiff Arms Park. I just can't see the current disenfranchised people from Pontypridd, Merthyr, Ebbw Vale, etc. turning out to watch a side at the arms park. It's what we ask them to do now and they (mainly) don't want to do it. Just changing the name and the kit won't change that. But that's just my opinion. I'd be willing to give it a try though.

I know for a fact that the Scarlets budget for marketing is £0. Reason given - can't afford it, most of the money goes on paying players.

Genuinely I just hope we get a decent rugby structure in Wales.

"Aviva Derci Roger"
"Regional rugby fans unite in protest against WRU as deadline day looms"
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/regional-rugby-fans-unite-protest-6448687

Cardiff Dave wrote:"Aviva Derci Roger"
"Regional rugby fans unite in protest against WRU as deadline day looms"
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/regional-rugby-fans-unite-protest-6448687

There must be, what, 200 people protesting. Amazing. Can't even sell out a Xmas derby.

doctornickolas wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:"Aviva Derci Roger"
"Regional rugby fans unite in protest against WRU as deadline day looms"
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/regional-rugby-fans-unite-protest-6448687

There must be, what, 200 people protesting. Amazing. Can't even sell out a Xmas derby.

I understand the protest was prior to kick off, so fans would've still been arriving or buying drinks etc.

Both bbc match reports say the 2 derby games we're sell outs.

Griff wrote:Both bbc match reports say the 2 derby games we're sell outs.

PYS Was a sell out as was RP though seems some confusion on the capacity of Dave these days.

Both PYS and Dave were clearly very well attended and it looked great on the tv. End of.

The protestors are a handful of idiots, mainly the same people who take over the regions own forums and attempt to chase of anyone new posting there.  the same people who have deluded themselves into thinking they represent everyone.  Yet when you go on any neutral forum just as many, if not more fans actually seem to want a fresh start away from the regions.

More fun

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25535712

This guy is an idiot. As bad as that Owen Smith guy. That whole article is a joke, from the Ponty matchday programme. The only thing that's good out of it, is they have finally admitted they aren't interested in a Valleys Rugby scheme and just want Ponty taking their alleged deserved place at the top table.

How selfish of the Blues giving a player and a coach an opportunity.

To be fair, they should have talked to Ponty about it IMO. Good manners. But it just sums up the bad feeling between the region and one of 'their' clubs.

Spoken and said what? Ponty are a feeder club and supposed to provide a pathway to professional rugby. The timing is questionable also and obviously done to whip the disenfranchised lot up into a frenzy.

Ponty would've said yes anyway, so what's the point in moaning about it now? If I were the blues, I would show them some real contempt and not help them out in the B and I Cup.

But do the regions take the feeder clubs seriously?
As an outside it just looks like Llanelli and Cardiff to me with the feeder clubs little more than an annoyance.
Newport aren't much better and only Osprey come, remotely, close and even then its not great

geoff999rugby wrote:But do the regions take the feeder clubs seriously?
As an outside it just looks like Llanelli and Cardiff to me with the feeder clubs little more than an annoyance.
Newport aren't much better and only Osprey come, remotely, close and even then its not great

Care to explain how they aren't? Your whole post is sheer ignorance to be fair.

Lets take Cardiff

What colours do they wear
What ground do they play at
What do supports chant

No sense of sharing the team as a region with any other Welsh clubs

Llanelli are even worse

Rev, my point was more about dialog. Talk to Ponty so they know who's going to be missing and can plan replacements, etc. but yes, timing is Poopie and a clear attempt to undermine.

I'll take Dragons (not Newport who are semi pro).

A few of their squad come up from the Prem and from around the region (over half the starting line up v the Blues came through from a club within our region). Hence, showing the best players will get a chance. LV games have been used to blood more prem players. We have given our region's representatives in the B+I cup a massive helping hand with fringe and academy players.

You insist on calling Dragons, Newport but then your points about Cardiff don't ring true for us. There isn't really a ground in our region as fit for purpose as RP, though plans are afoot to take games away (though do Ulster move games around?), we don't play in the same colours as Newport and we only sing Dragons or Gwent songs at matches.

geoff999rugby wrote:Lets take Cardiff

What colours do they wear
What ground do they play at
What do supports chant

No sense of sharing the team as a region with any other Welsh clubs

Llanelli are even worse

I can only speak for the Dragons, but more of our players lately have come from Bedwas and Cross Keys than Newport RFC. Also, a lot of our players go out to these sides for development/return from injury/finding form, etc. Didn't always used to be like that of course. But it is the case now. And probably the reason Newport RFC have been doing so poorly in the Welsh Premiership. In fact, the way it works in the a Dragons region is that as well as having age grade academies (Dragons U16s and 18s) we also have the regional academy (the best 'graduates' from the U18s I think) who are affiliated to one of the 3 feeder clubs and play a lot of their rugby at these clubs in the welsh prem, often only getting called up for the region for injuries, LV games, international cover, etc.

For the Blues region you only have Cardiff and Ponty as feeder clubs. As relations with Ponty are so bad then yes, in that region I can see how the concept of regional rugby looks poor. But the Dragons do have a 'proper' feeder club relationship with its 3 prem clubs, even if the fan support from them is not so good. But that's a different matter to that which you are questioning.

I'm pretty sure that the Scarlets have a good feeder system going with Llanelli, Llandovery and Carmarthen Quins. I know that a number of youngsters have come through to Scarlets from Llandovery and Quins lately, the latter club doing very well of late in the welsh prem.

Also Geoff, the irony in your post is that the Ospreys have had a huge falling out with Neath a few years back to the point where there is/was pretty much no relationship between the two at all. Hardly the rosy region that you talk of. Neath at one point said they'd refuse to let any players join the ospreys, which is maybe why they went from top of the table, winning every year to falling down the pecking order a bit (I.e. players were a bit reluctant to join them in case their pathway was blocked).

I think their relationship with Aberavon and Bridgend is pretty good though. Not too sure.