1872 Cup Thread 2014: Glasgow vs Edinburgh

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :


 
It's that time again. The oldest club fixture in world rugby.
Glasgow looking for an unprecedented fifth successive win.
Bring it.
 

 
It's the the social club versus the golf club, the unwashed versus the exfoliators, the heroin users versus the social drinkers, the chips & cheese versus the salt & sauce, the ramraiders versus the online bank hackers, the knock-off Rolecks versus the original Pateks and the cardiac arrest versus the stress-related work sign-off for a fortnight.
 
A. The Fixtures
 
Round 1
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield Library
 
Referee: Neil Paterson (SRU, 57th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Bob Nevins (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Cole (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
Round 2
Saturday 26 April 2014, 19:05
Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun Stadium
 
Referee: Mathieu Raynal (FFR, 2nd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Graeme Marshall (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Douglas Hunter (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
B. Form - head to head
 
20 Played 20
11 Wins 8
8 Losses 11
1 Draws 1
37 Tries 34
22 Conversions 22
53 Penalties 55
11 Drop Goals 5
421 Points 394
26 Avg. Age 26
 
C. Form - last year & this
 
Friday 21 December 2012, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 23 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun
 
Saturday 29 December 2012, 16:05
Edinburgh Rugby 17 - 21 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield
 
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield

D. Teams
 
Round 1:
 
(i) Edinburgh

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tom Brown
10 Greig Tonks
09 Greig Laidlaw (c)
 
01 Wicus Blaauw
02 Ross Ford
03 Willem Nel
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Ollie Atkins
06 Cornell Du Preez
07 Roddy Grant
08 David Denton
 
16 Aleki Lutui
17 Alex Allan
18 Geoff Cross
19 Izak van der Westhuizen
20 Mike Coman
21 Grayson Hart
22 Tony Fenner
23 Sam Beard
 
(ii) Glasgow

15. Sean Maitland
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Stuart Hogg
12. Alex Dunbar
11. DTH van der Merwe
10. Duncan Weir
09. Chris Cusiter (c)
 
01. Ryan Grant
02. Pat MacArthur
03. Jon Welsh
04. Tim Swinson
05. Tom Ryder
06. Rob Harley
07. Tyrone Holmes
08. Ryan Wilson
 
16. Dougie Hall
17. Gordon Reid
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Josh Strauss
21. Chris Fusaro
22. Henry Pyrgos
23. Ruaridh Jackson
 
Round 2
 
(i) Glasgow
 
15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Finn Russell
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Ruaridh Jackson
09. Chris Cusiter

01. Ryan Grant
02. Dougie Hall
03. Jon Welsh
04. Jonny Gray
05. Al Kellock (Captain)
06. Rob Harley
07. Chris Fusaro
08. Josh Strauss

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Duncan Weir
23. Richie Vernon
 
(ii) Edinburgh

15 Cuthbert
14 Brown
13 Scott
12 Strauss
11 Visser
10 Bezuidenhout
09 Laidlaw (c)

08 Denton
07 Du Preez
06 Coman
05 van der Westhuizen
04 Gilchrist
03 Nel
02 Ford
01 Dickinson

16 Hilterbrand
17 Blaauw
18 Berghan
19 Toolis
20 Leonardi
21 Hart
22 Francis
23 Beard

[funnyExiledScot]

Of course not. Neither are close to being a substitute for seeing how a player will cope with international rugby.

What if Kelly Brown captains Scotland to a strong showing in the AIs but picks up an injury and so misses the 6 Nations, at which Bob Harley makes a great start to his Scotland career, winning a couple of MOTM awards. Meanwhile Strauss has another strong season for Glasgow. Cotter then has to pick two from Brown, Harley and Strauss for the Scotland 6 jersey at the World Cup.......it really isn't as straightforward in my opinion as many on here seem to think.

Clearly all players must start somewhere, but making your debut in the World Cup, that's a big big statement to make.

My own view is that Strauss is good enough, and it'll come down to form next season and how each of the candidates perform. Clearly those who can play over the summer, in the AIs and the 6 Nations have an advantage. I can't see Cotter ignoring players who have played well for Scotland in the run up and going with Strauss. However, at the moment, with the 6 jersey literally vacant due to Scott Johnson's mismanagement, and neither Beattie nor Denton setting the heather on fire, it would be extremely easy and obvious to pick Strauss were the World Cup being played this summer. By next summer, I hope it won't be such an easy decision.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Well, let's see if we can be realistic about the various 6 and 8 options:

Beattie - has the capacity to make yards, just often not the hard ones; defensively sound; medium lineout contribution
Denton - has the capacity to make hard yards, prone to turnovers tho; defensively sound; low/medium lineout contribution; ruck shy (harsh?)
Wilson - has the capacity to make hard yards, poss too lightweight to make hard ones tho; defensively sound; medium lineout contribution; will throw his body into the breakdown, not always successfully
Strauss - has the capacity to make hard yards; defensively sound; low/medium lineout contribution; runs thru walls for fun

I'm not considering Strauss as a 6 because I actually believe that in Brown and Ginger Boab we are already well covered with players that will complement natural 8s and natural 7s

Take your pick

[funnyExiledScot]

Assuming Brown goes back to 6 for Scotland, and with Strokosch and Harley as back-up, I'd agree that if Strauss wants to start for Scotland it'll be at 8.

More likely I think is that Strauss comes on board for the World Cup principally for impact from the bench, a role I think he'd be pretty good at.

In terms of his main competition at 8, it's Beattie and Denton for me. Wilson just doesn't have the power to be our main ball carrier in my opinion. Each have pros and cons, and both Denton and Beattie have put in some pretty strong performances for Scotland in the past, so have the advantage of having shown up well at international level before. As I said above, I think much will come down to form. If Denton and/or Beattie have a really strong international season next year, and cement their place in the side and the back row goes well as a unit, it may be hard to justify making the switch to Strauss, regardless of whether he's playing well in a Glasgow jersey. If the other two aren't playing well, of if we have an injury, then I think Cotter wouldn't have an issue going with Strauss.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Well, let's see if we can be realistic about the various 6 and 8 options:

Beattie - has the capacity to make yards, just often not the hard ones; defensively sound; medium lineout contribution
Denton - has the capacity to make hard yards, prone to turnovers tho; defensively sound; low/medium lineout contribution; ruck shy (harsh?)
Wilson - has the capacity to make hard yards, poss too lightweight to make hard ones tho; defensively sound; medium lineout contribution; will throw his body into the breakdown, not always successfully
Strauss - has the capacity to make hard yards; defensively sound; low/medium lineout contribution; runs thru walls for fun

I'm not considering Strauss as a 6 because I actually believe that in Brown and Ginger Boab we are already well covered with players that will complement natural 8s and natural 7s

Take your pick

Would need to disagree with the medium line out grade for Ryan Wilson - he took a number of throws cleanly last Sat v the MFLs. Always available in the line too! I would rate him as high on contribution

[funnyExiledScot]

Did Wilson even play against us last Saturday? Don't remember him at all. Must have been one of those world class Glasgow performances that slipped past me.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Did Wilson even play against us last Saturday? Don't remember him at all. Must have been one of those world class Glasgow performances that slipped past me.

That's ok, fES, you're in good company - slipped past most of the MFL defenders too, much like the rest of the Weege attack

[RDW]

Cough - let in 4 tries against one of the worst teams in the league - cough

  

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Cough - fell asleep cos it was too easy - cough

[funnyExiledScot]

Cough - fell asleep in my armchair cos I'm very old it was too easy - cough

Fair enough.

[George Carlin]

Did Wilson even play against us last Saturday? Don't remember him at all. Must have been one of those world class Glasgow performances that slipped past me.

The historical frequency with which that seems to happen definitely makes it the most likely option.

[funnyExiledScot]

Did Wilson even play against us last Saturday? Don't remember him at all. Must have been one of those world class Glasgow performances that slipped past me.

The historical frequency with which that seems to happen definitely makes it the most likely option.

I take it back. Apparently Scott Johnson plans to use Wilson at 6 over the summer based on his epic performance against Edinburgh at the weekend, which is already fast becoming the stuff of legend. Victor Matfield was seen in the stands taking notes on his clean lineout takes.

Can't believe he wasn't MOTM. Must have been a close call between him and Stuart Hogg, who I also thought was excellent.

[justified sinner]

Well, let's see if we can be realistic about the various 6 and 8 options:

Beattie - has the capacity to make yards, just often not the hard ones; defensively sound; medium lineout contribution
Denton - has the capacity to make hard yards, prone to turnovers tho; defensively sound; low/medium lineout contribution; ruck shy (harsh?)
Wilson - has the capacity to make hard yards, poss too lightweight to make hard ones tho; defensively sound; medium lineout contribution; will throw his body into the breakdown, not always successfully
Strauss - has the capacity to make hard yards; defensively sound; low/medium lineout contribution; runs thru walls for fun

I'm not considering Strauss as a 6 because I actually believe that in Brown and Ginger Boab we are already well covered with players that will complement natural 8s and natural 7s

Take your pick

Would need to disagree with the medium line out grade for Ryan Wilson - he took a number of throws cleanly last Sat v the MFLs.  Always available in the line too!   I would rate him as high on contribution

Wilson took zero line outs for Glasgow according to ESPN. On own throw Glasgow took 8 lost 2 Edinburgh took 9 lost zero, 7 of those takes by Gilchrist.

[funnyExiledScot]

Yeh, but you can prove anything with facts JS.

[jimbopip]

Holla, you pampered jades of the East. Let's get one thing straight; your four tries at Scotstoun are a complete irrelevance. The only thing that mattered was Glasgow winning (one point was enough) and scoring four or more tries. Since the Effeminates couldn't beat an egg at the moment, the only contest was between Glasgow and the scoreboard.
Just remember: Ryan Wilson and David Denton; one of them looks like a rugby player and the other like Claire Balding's wee sister.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Denton has nicer hair than Clair mind !

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

So ESPN - often pilloried on here for screwing up facts and figures - is now the font of all knowledge. Wilson took a clean catch at the rear of the line out on our throw in the 2nd 40. Christ you will be reporting stuff from the Rabo site next, which had Vernon running in our fifth try (Harley's) when he was not on the field at the time.

Anyway, looking out passport for Europe next season - you Luvviebokkes needn't bother - although your top 15 2nd raters might need theirs to return to SA. Who will your mob play when it appears you are shipping out some of your half decent Scottish players then ?   

[RDW]

Does anyone know what the quarter final arrangements are for the new Euro comp?

Oh wait, Glasgow probably don't really need to find out...


  


P.s. yes I know 'at least Glasgow are in it'!

[IanBru]

So ESPN - often pilloried on here for screwing up facts and figures - is now the font of all knowledge.  

+1  
 
Compare and contrast this:



...with this:

[GLove39]

To be fair ESPN don't have a Meters Glided or Defenders Owned column.

[IanBru]

True 'dat.

[George Carlin]

Nice to see Finn acknowledged for some good games:
http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/14/04/30/russell-collects-first-player-month-award

FES - I did the research that you wanted.
You can email Nathan.Bomrys@glasgowwarriors.org and make sure that the 'subject heading' is "Completely Overrated".

[Totalflanker]

Fair play - Russell has been really good. Must have been a tight call between him and Jonny Gray again - he just seems to be getting better and better.

Hard yards going forward but more impressive is the mess he makes of opposition rucks, seems to me that he is often forcing a couple extra of the opposition to come in to clear him out - figure it must be a contributing factor to the defensive stats when the opposition are down a couple for the next phase.

[tigertattie]

surely to goodness both Gray brothers must be the starting locks for Scotland now!!!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

No, no, tattie, not at all. Gray jnr is vastly inepxerienced and should just be focused on establishing himself in the Glasgow 7s team - he needs at least another 6,572,389 Rabo games before we can seriously consider him - fES told me that

[tigertattie]

But if he can learn the lineout calls off Al "the shouty snarly ruck inspector" Kellock then surely then even FES would drop him into the starting 15?

[funnyExiledScot]

No, no, tattie, not at all. Gray jnr is vastly inepxerienced and should just be focused on establishing himself in the Glasgow 7s team - he needs at least another 6,572,389 Rabo games before we can seriously consider him - fES told me that

Now now, no need to get all "Yes campaign" on me and start making things up (although to give Salmond some credit, Putin is pretty awesome).

I would have no hesitation in starting Jonny Gray in a Scotland jersey, he's played plenty this season and was oddly dropped by Scott Johnson in the 6 Nations. I would start him with his brother in the summer, with Grant Gilchrist on the bench.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Agreed re para 2

[tigertattie]

Now now, no need to get all "Yes campaign" on me and start making things up (although to give Salmond some credit, Putin is pretty awesome)

And we are actually a nation of utter pisheads!

[R!skysports]

Cough -  let in 4 tries against one of the worst teams in the league - cough

  

Well we did want you to get some bonus points as well - we are all Scottish after all   

[tigertattie]

We still talking about this?

[R!skysports]

Been away for 10 days on holiday - catching up......

[funnyExiledScot]

If Glasgow win this season we'll never hear the end of it. It'll be like the English and 1966/2003 all over again.....

[George Carlin]

If Glasgow win this season we'll never hear the end of it. It'll be like the English and 1966/2003 all over again.....

[R!skysports]

If Glasgow Edinburgh win this season we'll never hear the end of it. It'll be like the English and 1966/2003 expense scandal all over again.....

There fixed that for u - and went all Finance for u :-)

[tigertattie]

yeah but Edinburgh cannot win.

I really hope Glasgow manage to win the grand final but I'm not looking forward to the smugness that will come from certain posters on here!

Edinburgh would do the same, but its just worse when the smugness comes from a weegie!

[R!skysports]

yeah but Edinburgh cannot win.

I really hope Glasgow manage to win the grand final but I'm not looking forward to the smugness that will come from certain posters on here!

Edinburgh would do the same, but its just worse when the smugness comes from a weegie!

hence why I went with the expenses scandal - it would have to be fixed


If we managed to win, I certainly would not be smug - happy and would celebrate

Hopefully Edinburgh can sort themselves out, as would like to have both our teams reaching the top and beating those darn Irish week in week out

[funnyExiledScot]

At our current rate of "progress" I'll be older than ASBO the day Glasgow and Edinburgh meet in the playoffs!

[tigertattie]

we'll see how pappy goes after his precious pre season with the team!

[funnyExiledScot]

Given all the hype about this magic "pre-season", I imagine the Edinburgh players must be completely terrified of what's going to happen to them!

[George Carlin]

Given all the hype about this magic "pre-season", I imagine the Edinburgh players must be completely terrified of what's going to happen to them!

I am assuming it will be like the scene in 300: Rise of An Empire where Xerxes is led by Eva Green to take a dip in a bath of pure evil and becomes an unstoppable god-king.

So by extrapolation the Edinburgh players will have to get ready for early morning swims in the Forth. I would imagine that the trauma of having to constantly avoid abandoned wellies, used contraceptives and shopping trollies certainly will make men of them.

[tigertattie]

Given all the hype about this magic "pre-season", I imagine the Edinburgh players must be completely terrified of what's going to happen to them!

I am assuming it will be like the scene in 300: Rise of An Empire where Xerxes is led by Eva Green to take a dip in a bath of pure evil and becomes an unstoppable god-king.

So by extrapolation the Edinburgh players will have to get ready for early morning swims in the Forth. I would imagine that the trauma of having to constantly avoid abandoned wellies, used contraceptives and shopping trollies certainly will make men of them.

that technique is employed by one Tim Visser at tackle training!

[funnyExiledScot]

Given all the hype about this magic "pre-season", I imagine the Edinburgh players must be completely terrified of what's going to happen to them!

I am assuming it will be like the scene in 300: Rise of An Empire where Xerxes is led by Eva Green to take a dip in a bath of pure evil and becomes an unstoppable god-king.

So by extrapolation the Edinburgh players will have to get ready for early morning swims in the Forth. I would imagine that the trauma of having to constantly avoid abandoned wellies, used contraceptives and shopping trollies certainly will make men of them.

If you involved Eva Green, I suspect you could get the players to do pretty much anything.

[tigertattie]

Given all the hype about this magic "pre-season", I imagine the Edinburgh players must be completely terrified of what's going to happen to them!

I am assuming it will be like the scene in 300: Rise of An Empire where Xerxes is led by Eva Green to take a dip in a bath of pure evil and becomes an unstoppable god-king.

So by extrapolation the Edinburgh players will have to get ready for early morning swims in the Forth. I would imagine that the trauma of having to constantly avoid abandoned wellies, used contraceptives and shopping trollies certainly will make men of them.

If you involved Eva Green, I suspect you could get the players to do pretty much anything.

does that include:
Getting Tim Visser to tackle
Getting Dave Denton to offload the ball
Getting Dave Denton to catch the ball
Getting Dave Denton to not run into the nearest defender
Getting Dave Denton to get a haircut

[RDW]

If it is a skinny dip in a bath of pure evil I really need to watch this film!

[George Carlin]

RDW - just to warn/encourage you, there's an infamous copulation scene that's so gratuitous that in this part of the world I think that they must have cut fully 5 minutes out. It went from an intense look between Eva and Sullivan Stapleton to a shot of choppy sea. Very Bollywood imagery. Definitely felt cheated.

[tigertattie]

Can you get the uncut version on love film?

[IanBru]

I think Redtube has a copy.

 

[R!skysports]

Now this thread has gone off topic a little bit lol

[IanBru]

Okay, soooo....

Who would win in a fight between a shark, a silverback gorilla and a well-pre-seasoned Cornell du Preez?

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

Now this thread has gone off topic a little bit lol

Anything and everything must be done in order to get to 1000 posts!
By Order of Field Marshall GC

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