Can Lancaster's England survive a second loss?

First topic message reminder :

With England 0/1 and still with their nemesis Wales and the resurgent Ireland to face, it's worth thinking about where that leaves England.

Losing again will threaten their 4th placing. Lancaster has staked his reputation on being the second best team in the world by the end of the season. That would see him needing a series clean sweep in NZ to reach his self imposed objective.

With the scrum and lineout both looking less than stable, and questions around the effectiveness of his Backline the saviour of English rugby could be in a tricky spot should he lose either of those encounters.

It's unlikely that Scotland have the players to upset this England squad, but should they do so in one of those freak Scottish upset victories that have become prominent of late, could we hypothetically be looking at a New England coach before the World Cup? Following an historic 6N wooden spoon?

We know that England are a team that play on confidence, and that adversity easily rattles the side and brings them under the scrutiny of Britain's vicious tabloid assault. Just look at the collapse of the celebrated England cricket team. How far away is something similar for the chariot?

When I was a kid growing up in NZ. Not much action apart from 1982 World Cup.

Don't confuse support with national support. The Football World Cup is a big event. Imagine watching the Super Bowl and you like a certain team. Well another way of showing you like a team is to cheer them on even though they have no connection to you. Like a turtle race in biology I did. I had no connection to the turtle other than the money I had bet on him winning. He might have been born elsewhere for all I knew. He was my turtle and he won me money. Stands to reason the next race the biology teacher left the classroom, my support was for the same turtle.

Let's imagine the turtle died. I moved schools. I had a new biology class. A new teacher who liked going for a cheeky cigarette in class time. Let's say this new turtle won some money for me. He became my new favourite turtle and I put all my support in behind that turtle. Glory hunter? If you say so. But a rich one...

We all support another team once ours is out. You  are not telling me anything I don't know already. I love a flutter also..

But that isn't the point here..and you know it isn't.

You started of saying you support England in footy .

You then said you support Spain because you moved there.

Then you mentioned if a gun was put to your head you would support England.,

You  are know saying no in actual fact I support kiwi land first and thankfully they won't meet Spain because I also support them..

Just make your mind up and stick with the team..

Here is some more reference reading: https://www.606v2.com/t51367-who-will-you-be-supporting-this-six-nations

I can understand people follow other teams they have a soft spot for (favourite player and the like) but surely if you consider yourself English you support England above all other nations across all sports that are applicable? I have a mate who supports Leeds United and Bradford Bulls; just weird.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Here is some more reference reading: https://www.606v2.com/t51367-who-will-you-be-supporting-this-six-nations

Read it

got the t shirt 

posted on it.

My second team is Scotland this year..

GunsGerms wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I'm Pete O'Toole. Because I said so...

"Hi Im Plenty"
"But of course you are"
"Plenty O'Toole"
"Named after your father perhaps?"

My name is Miles O'Toole. Coincidence.

Classic James Bond.  Though PussyGalore or Holly Goodhead are the girls for me.  All comes down to personal preference I suppose.

Every journey begins with a single step. I won't lose faith in you oakey. Have a great weekend and thanks for brightening up my day. You're a legend!

That is the key point. Well done 7.5

I don't consider myself English. I am a New Zealander who is aware of his roots and is happily married and residing in Spain.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Every journey begins with a single step. I won't lose faith in you oakey. Have a great weekend and thanks for brightening up my day. You're a legend!

That is the key point. Well done 7.5

I don't consider myself English. I am a New Zealander who is aware of his roots and is happily married and residing in Spain.

You tell me you are happy, you tell me you are rich, you tell me I am a legend.

I want a present. And a nice one!

Have you had any more of those united nations nights out in Madrid lately Kia?

No 7&1/2 wrote:I can understand people follow other teams they have a soft spot for (favourite player and the like) but surely if you consider yourself English you support England above all other nations across all sports that are applicable? I have a mate who supports Leeds United and Bradford Bulls; just weird.

How about a guy I know who travels every weekend to support his footall side (Sunderland)  - a few hundred quid every time between flights and game and food and what have you. I strongly doubt he's ever been to a League of Ireland game that would be played by a home club right in his town.

Kids grow up and TV is there and playground chat happens and all of a sudden they develop bonds with teams that are far from home.  I particularly remember growing up as a kid not remotely interested in football (Irish version or English version) but all around me, my friends were buying the English football annuals and comics and swapping Liverpool player stickers for Manchester United ones. And that was the beginning of their 'allegiance' because I guarantee you, most of the inital interest was in the playability of bartering colourful stickers in a school yard.... not actually genuine interest in the teams themselves

I support England, Newcastle Falcons, Percy Park (The rugby team i played for), Newcastle United, Newcastle Eagles, North Shields and Whitley Bay Football Clubs as the local clubs...etc etc

Having spent a few years in Liberia, West Africa, i always look for their results but they're hardly ever going to clash with my supported team.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I support England, Newcastle Falcons, Percy Park (The rugby team i played for), Newcastle United, Newcastle Eagles, North Shields and Whitley Bay Football Clubs as the local clubs...etc etc

Having spent a few years in Liberia, West Africa, i always look for their results but they're hardly ever going to clash with my supported team.

^ gets it

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I can understand people follow other teams they have a soft spot for (favourite player and the like) but surely if you consider yourself English you support England above all other nations across all sports that are applicable? I have a mate who supports Leeds United and Bradford Bulls; just weird.

How about a guy I know who travels every weekend to support his footall side (Sunderland)  - a few hundred quid every time between flights and game and food and what have you. I strongly doubt he's ever been to a League of Ireland game that would be played by a home club right in his town.

Kids grow up and TV is there and playground chat happens and all of a sudden they develop bonds with teams that are far from home.  I particularly remember growing up as a kid not remotely interested in football (Irish version or English version) but all around me, my friends were buying the English football annuals and comics and swapping Liverpool player stickers for Manchester United ones. And that was the beginning of their 'allegiance' because I guarantee you, most of the inital interest was in the playability of bartering colourful stickers in a school yard.... not actually genuine interest in the teams themselves

I know plenty of people round me who support Liverpool and Man U etc. Football sides like Man U don't really represent the towns and cities anymore so it's kind of understandable. Would be nice if they did support their local sides as it would bring more equality. If it continues as it's going there'll only be 4 professional sides in England in a 100 years. I think a lot of it is wanted to support a team with more chance of winning personally.

NO ! I am Spartacus !

" I think a lot of it is wanted to support a team with more chance of winning personally."


ebop - you were asking what a glory hunter was- the above written by no 7 should get you started on the concept.


Your definition was based on the year 2003. Tbh i dont remeber any one other than the English supporting the England team after that result- ergo not glory hunters.

GunsGerms wrote:Have you had any more of those united nations nights out in Madrid lately Kia?

This weekend mate. Meeting up for the Ireland Wales game and then hitting the town afterwards. A rare opportunity to hold a pint glass in my hand.

mystiroakey wrote:" I think a lot of it is wanted to support a team with more chance of winning personally."


ebop - you were asking what a glory hunter was- the above written by no 7 should get you started on the concept.


Your definition was based on the year 2003. Tbh i dont remeber any one other than the English supporting the England team after that result- ergo not glory hunters.

Oakey my friend, there's a big difference to sharing in a team's success and claiming it as your own. You won't see me plastering on the football boards Spain, my team, is the best team in the world. Why? Because as you well know they are not my team (England is.   Nor are England really my team. I have English grandparents but living one year in London and having a British passport might give me more entitlement than Shane Howarth to Wales but they are still really not my team.) I enjoyed sharing in Spain's success just as I did in France when I was living there in 1998. That's not glory hunting. That's just where I was living. I wasn't going down the Castellana in 2010 draped in the Spanish flag crying for my team's victory. Spanish people know I am a guiri or foreigner. But I was happy for Spain and happy for my wife's country. Lord knows with the economy and unemployment, they needed something to cheer about. What would you have had me do? Sulk and pine that my sentimental team was kicked out by phantom goals. (I was proud of my New Zealand team for doing better than expected and a particular highlight was watching it with an Italian friend who was mortified.) Do you see how support for a team outside of New Zealand will always be tenuous but nonetheless understandable?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:" I think a lot of it is wanted to support a team with more chance of winning personally."


ebop - you were asking what a glory hunter was- the above written by no 7 should get you started on the concept.


Your definition was based on the year 2003. Tbh i dont remeber any one other than the English supporting the England team after that result- ergo not glory hunters.

Oakey my friend, there's a big difference to sharing in a team's success and claiming it as your own. You won't see me plastering on the football boards Spain, my team, is the best team in the world. Why? Because as you well know they are not my team (England is.   Nor are England really my team. I have English grandparents but living one year in London and having a British passport might give me more entitlement than Shane Howarth to Wales but they are still really not my team.) I enjoyed sharing in Spain's success just as I did in France when I was living there in 1998. That's not glory hunting. That's just where I was living. I wasn't going down the Castellana in 2010 draped in the Spanish flag crying for my team's victory. Spanish people know I am a guiri or foreigner. But I was happy for Spain and happy for my wife's country. Lord knows with the economy and unemployment, they needed something to cheer about. What would you have had me do? Sulk and pine that my sentimental team was kicked out by phantom goals. (I was proud of my New Zealand team for doing better than expected and a particular highlight was watching it with an Italian friend who was mortified.) Do you see how support for a team outside of New Zealand will always be tenuous but nonetheless understandable?
 

You just described exactly how GE lives his life

 

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Have you had any more of those united nations nights out in Madrid lately Kia?

This weekend mate. Meeting up for the Ireland Wales game and then hitting the town afterwards. A rare opportunity to hold a pint glass in my hand.

haha nice. Im going to the game and cant wait.

Wow, some very myopic views on here. Who really cares who another person supports or why. Nobody can put themselves in another's shoes or experience what they have experienced in their life. Time for certain posters to grow up and just respect each others views.

Sad thing is, if it was GE making these accusations he would be banned. Sure, weren't we all told to respect others or face a banning?

Good on ya. Enjoy GG. Hope the weather improves. This fixture has been consistently good viewing in recent years. Atrocious weather won't help that continuity.

he could. Question is should he?

If Lancaster's England go down to frankly the worst Scottish selection I can recall for a long time he deserves to get his books.

An England win by less than 10 points should be seen as a failure on his part. Our set piece is a shambles, we are weak in defence and weak in attack.

Must win game for Lancaster.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I support England, Newcastle Falcons, Percy Park (The rugby team i played for), Newcastle United, Newcastle Eagles, North Shields and Whitley Bay Football Clubs as the local clubs...etc etc

Having spent a few years in Liberia, West Africa, i always look for their results but they're hardly ever going to clash with my supported team.

Very interesting place Liberia. I know it was set up as a colony for freed black slaves from the US and the captial Monrovia is named after American president James Monroe but is it as free as the name Liberia suggests and was meant to suggest?

The Democratic Republic of Congo is about as democratic as North Korea. Names are not a good guide when it comes to the African continent GG...

But the birthplace of man so the African teams always have my support in the World Cup. Except this year. I am supporting Brazil.   

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Good on ya. Enjoy GG. Hope the weather improves. This fixture has been consistently good viewing in recent years. Atrocious weather won't help that continuity.

Its a beaut of a day in Dublin today. I think that might change though.

Nachos Jones wrote:Wow, some very myopic views on here. Who really cares who another person supports or why. Nobody can put themselves in another's shoes or experience what they have experienced in their life. Time for certain posters to grow up and just respect each others views.

Sad thing is, if it was GE making these accusations he would be banned. Sure, weren't we all told to respect others or face a banning?

What a sickly post..

Talk about mr thought police.. I bet you can't even see the irony in your nonsense

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The Democratic Republic of Congo is about as democratic as North Korea. Names are not a good guide when it comes to the African continent GG...

But the birthplace of man so the African teams always have my support in the World Cup. Except this year. I am supporting Brazil.   

Another really interesting place that has suffered over the years because of its resources in particular rubber. The history of Congo when under Belgian rule under King Leopold is really interesting. Real tyrant.

I also love the biography of Welsh man Henry Stanley and his adventures to Congo. Unbelievable story.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The Democratic Republic of Congo is about as democratic as North Korea. Names are not a good guide when it comes to the African continent GG...

But the birthplace of man so the African teams always have my support in the World Cup. Except this year. I am supporting Brazil.   

 

Kia all you are doing is telling the world you don't care about football.. 

If nz become a bad team at rugby would you ever change you support the way you do with your football support .

You do not understand what it is like to be a football supporter. However I know you do when it comes to rugby..

mystiroakey wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Wow, some very myopic views on here. Who really cares who another person supports or why. Nobody can put themselves in another's shoes or experience what they have experienced in their life. Time for certain posters to grow up and just respect each others views.

Sad thing is, if it was GE making these accusations he would be banned. Sure, weren't we all told to respect others or face a banning?

What a sickly post..

Talk about mr thought police.. I bet you can't even see the irony in your nonsense

Why is it sickly, because I choose to respect other persons decisions in life and not take them personally?

Nachos Jones wrote:Wow, some very myopic views on here. Who really cares who another person supports or why. Nobody can put themselves in another's shoes or experience what they have experienced in their life. Time for certain posters to grow up and just respect each others views.

Sad thing is, if it was GE making these accusations he would be banned. Sure, weren't we all told to respect others or face a banning?

To be fair, I've only ever been banned for making a misunderstood joke or two.

Apparently they're not obvious enough. Next time I'll try the one about the Waikato farmer who is abducted by aliens.

Who doesn't respect other peoples decisions. You truly are spouting nonsense mate.. 

The last post you made before was that you wanted banter and that the mods were ott. The. Today you bang on about others needing to be banned,

Seriously calm yourself down. Stop contradicting yourself and trying to play a PC Card when it isn't needed..

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Wow, some very myopic views on here. Who really cares who another person supports or why. Nobody can put themselves in another's shoes or experience what they have experienced in their life. Time for certain posters to grow up and just respect each others views.

Sad thing is, if it was GE making these accusations he would be banned. Sure, weren't we all told to respect others or face a banning?

To be fair, I've only ever been banned for making a misunderstood joke or two.

Like the one about the Waikato farmer who is abducted by aliens.

You got banned because when told by mods to stop something you just did it even more..

 I can't talk I have been banned myself for the same..

You certainly weren't banned for discussing the reasons behind supporting a team. That would be insane.,

mystiroakey wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The Democratic Republic of Congo is about as democratic as North Korea. Names are not a good guide when it comes to the African continent GG...

But the birthplace of man so the African teams always have my support in the World Cup. Except this year. I am supporting Brazil.   

 

Kia all you are doing is telling the world you don't care about football.. 

If nz become a bad team at rugby would you ever change you support the way you do with your football support .

You do not understand what it is like to be a football supporter. However I know you do when it comes to rugby..

We're making progress. No in answer to your question. Believe it or not there have been times when NZ hasn't been too convincing and I don't just mean at World Cups. But like my username suggests - stand strong NZ - I will always be an All Black supporter through and through just as I always will consider myself to be a New Zealander where matter where I live and where I've been.

So ease up my friend, it's Friday. Surely you can't be nervous facing Scotland?   

I guess the question should be can GE survive a second Enlgand loss without getting banned

What did I do wrong after the first one?

I'm actually on holiday for a
Month, so I'm not sure I'll see the rest of the competition sadly.

mystiroakey wrote:Who doesn't respect other peoples decisions. You truly are spouting nonsense mate.. 

The last post you made before was that you wanted banter and that the mods were ott. The. Today you bang on about others needing to be banned,

Seriously calm yourself down. Stop contradicting yourself and trying to play a PC Card when it isn't needed..

I like banter and good fun on this forum with the disagreements, I just don't think that its acceptable to judge another person on who they support as I have never walked a day in their shoes. That's fairly simply too me. In truth I was also not directing the post directly at you but you have responded in a personal way by calling it sickly.

Also, where did I say anyone needed to be banned? I simply made a joke that GE would be banned if he did posted like that...

Please read before you judge.

GloriousEmpire wrote:What did I do wrong after the first one?

I'm actually on holiday for a
Month, so I'm not sure I'll see the rest of the competition sadly.

Where did you go? Do they not have tvs there?

Oakey's just got a sickly feeling in his stomach, Scotland are going to reclaim the Calcutta Cup.

Have you seen the cricket oakey? I live in blissful cricket ignorance in Madrid, given our recent performances, but I've never defected. I was living in London though in 2005 when you won the Ashes but whilst I was cheering you on against the Aussies England certainly weren't my team. Just the lesser of two evils.   But finally NZ showing pressing England in the test cricket and beating the Windies was no fluke. They're not so rubbish. Feel free to cheer us on against India.   

I cant see Scotland winning on myself, they will give away penalties and that will keep Scotland in touch with them but I imagine that Scotlands inability to score tries and Englands ability to score tries will be the difference. England by 8.

I would also suggest that Lancaster's job will not be in trouble even if England do lose. He has done a rather good job at stabilising this England team and is on the verge of getting a very good side together. Without the injuries in the England camp, I would say they are easily the strongest team.

Nachos Jones wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Who doesn't respect other peoples decisions. You truly are spouting nonsense mate.. 

The last post you made before was that you wanted banter and that the mods were ott. The. Today you bang on about others needing to be banned,

Seriously calm yourself down. Stop contradicting yourself and trying to play a PC Card when it isn't needed..

I like banter and good fun on this forum with the disagreements, I just don't think that its acceptable to judge another person on who they support as I have never walked a day in their shoes. That's fairly simply too me. In truth I was also not directing the post directly at you but you have responded in a personal way by calling it sickly.

Also, where did I say anyone needed to be banned? I simply made a joke that GE would be banned if he did posted like that...

Please read before you judge.

Seriously mate - the world has gone mad and you seem to be part of it.

Banter about who someone supports is not like judging them personally. Its not real life mate., Its just sport, Yes posters like me that only support local clubs  can occasional take the moral high ground(rightly or wrongly).. But its all fun and games..

GunsGerms wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:What did I do wrong after the first one?

I'm actually on holiday for a
Month, so I'm not sure I'll see the rest of the competition sadly.

Where did you go? Do they not have tvs there?

No, Eco resort sort of thing. No tv.

sounds nice.

I could do with something like that.

Are you not going to take your phone either?

I'm taking it, not sure they have cell reception.

Why do you use the word Cell?

And where are you going that doesnt have mobile service?

God guys!!!  
He wants to chill!  
No TV, no Phone, no bloody rugby!  

Stop hounding a man who says he's leaving the technological age for a while to unwind.... More of us should do it.  

You don't need a World sanctioned UN Permit to turn your blasted smart-phone off

Well we'll also get break while he's away. Should be nice for us all!

Yes i would like to do that SF

GG is a lucky man that he can get a month of like that!


"ou don't need a World sanctioned UN Permit to turn your blasted smart-phone off "

sadly its harder to turn the thing off

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'm taking it, not sure they have cell reception.

Can you please leave your phone on in case we need some commentry on Brian O'Driscoll's performance v Wales?

Where exactly are you going? What is the name of the hotel and the address?

Not forgetting your room number