England Squad Assessment After 2 Rounds

First topic message reminder :

I don't post on here that often as I generally don't get the time to commit to in depth discussions, however I thought that since I had a spare 30 mins I would jot down some of my thoughts on the England squads performances in the opening 2 rounds.

1. Marler - is developing nicely and is finally bringing his loose play to the international stage. Carried and defended well in the opening 2 games and his scrummaging is improving all the time, which is impressive considering his age. 7

2. Hartley - Imperious in the lineout over the opening 2 rounds. I may even go so far as to say the form hooker in the tournament. 8.5

3. Cole - No other options here at present, however his performances have been of a high standard in the opening games. Despite him suffering at scrum time against the French, something which was rectified against Scotland, his loose play has been of his usual high standards. 7

4. Launchbury - Ever improving, always understated, Mr Consistent. Offers a nice balance with Lawes and the rest of the back 5. 7

5. Lawes - This season has seen Lawes' most assured performances in an England shirt. His performance levels have grown consistently throughout the year, something which is no doubt down to his injury free run, and his lineout calling has been exemplary (when Hartley's been on the pitch). 8.5

6. Wood - Doesn't do the flash stuff like some of the other forwards, but that's not what he's there for. He grafts so that others can do the blockbuster runs or the big hits. Along with Robshaw, one of my favourite players. 7

7. Robshaw - I don't care that people don't see him as a 7, or that he isn't good enough for international rugby. I think he is the most underrated player on the international stage, consistently one of the highest tacklers, always in support of breaks, always willing to do the hard yards and always the first one down on a scrappy ball. 7.5

8. B. Vunipola - England are in a fortunate position in that they now have 2 big powerful 8's whose sole purpose it is to cause havoc. Out of the 2, Morgan does possess great speed however Billy's ball handling, allied with his work rate and sheer size mean he possesses the greater potential. Have really been impressed with how he has grown over his 5 caps this season and I'm really looking forward to seeing how he goes against the 2 Lions 8's over the coming weeks. 8.5

9. Care - Has been in a rich vein of form for a long time but has never fully realised that at international level, despite the odd glimpse. Now we're finally seeing his potential and this is partly down to the platform he is being provided by his pack. Really deserves to continue in the 9 shirt and I hope the B Youngs steps up to challenge him. Does need to continue to work on his box kicking though. 8

10. Farrell - I've never been a big fan of Farrell Jr, particularly his annoying habit of acting like a footballer on occasion, however I will hold my hand up and say that he is one of the most improved international players this season and think he is exactly what England need right now in that shirt. Long term Ford will challenge him, but he is a winner and that will only drive him on to improve. Still a long way to go mind, but he's doing really well. 8

11. May - Obviously we've not seen a lot of him yet, 1 run in the France game and then the second half of the Scotland game aside, although what I have seen I'm quite impressed. He does have a tendency to go against the grain an crab back in field which against the stronger teams could cause problems, however it did go in his favour against Scotland. I do think he should've finished his 1 on 1 against Hogg, after 36's pass, as I think someone like Savia or North would've done, however hes still quite inexperienced and needs to have the opportunity to show that he's learned from that. 6.5

12. Twelvetrees - Some people say he's overrated, some would say he's not gone well for England this season. Personally I think he went well in the Autumn, despite not getting too many chances to shine, and despite that now infamous missed tackle has been very strong in cleaning up a lot of scrappy ball for England, whether that be loose ball or taking the hard drive when needed. 6Ns wise though, I've been impressed with how he's worked alongside Burrell and think there is a nice balance to the 3/4 line. We're finally getting to see his distribution skills and he shows that he can go through a gap as well. 7

13. Burrell - For someone who is new to the international scene, Burrell has made quite an assured start. Part of a solid midfield, defensively he hasn't been shown up, despite him playing out of position! Also attacking wise he offers exactly what England want from their 13 which is gain line presence. Also 2 trys in 2 games isn't bad either. 7

14. Nowell - He's performed exactly how you would expect a 20 year old who has been backed by his national coach over someone vastly more experienced and in, arguably, better domestic form. He's made mistakes but has had the confidence to immediately shrug them off and then do something positive, beat defenders one on one, carry out an effective kick chase whereby he takes the ball and makes good yards for the team. Yes he's young, yes he will continue to make mistakes, however with each game that goes by his confidence and experience will grow and his error rate will decrease. For his one on one ability alone I would keep him in the side over Ashton. 6.5

15. Brown - He may not be as glamorous as a Halfpenny or a Dagg, but he is exceptional fullback who does the basics well and hardly ever makes a mistake, which is exactly what you want at 15 in international rugby. Finally getting the opportunity this season ahead of Goode and Foden, he has nailed the shirt as his own and long may he keep it.

Subs:

16. T. Youngs - He is a conundrum, both for the English fans as much for the coaches. I would liken him to T Croft in that he would split opinion, he's not a conventional hooker and doesn't necessarily do this basics of hooking well but offers something extra around the pack that other players in his position don't. He works best with his Leicester partnerships around him, i.e. Croft and Parling, although I would argue that neither would get in the England starting line up when fit and I wouldn't consider them a viable bench option either when you consider we have currently Attwood and Morgan taking up them slots. For me he has to go and we need to find someone else who can do the basics right, we can't afford to keep handing good field position over whenever he comes on. Personally I would look to Webber to take the 16 slot, and then develop the Attwood partnership from the bench. 4

17. M Vunipola - Has gone well from the bench so far despite only getting brief cameos. Offers a huge amount around the field, particularly in his ball carrying although his scrimmaging does require work, and this is why Marler is ahead of him. 6.5

18. Thomas - Haven't really seen enough of him at so far so it is difficult to comment. I fully expect that as soon as Wilson is fit he'll take this slot. I see him as a stop gap until some of the young pretenders develop further. ?

19. Attwood - Again not seen a lot of game time, and would like him to get a start against Italy. From what I have seen though, has slotted into the England pack seamlessly when he's arrived, and certainly offers that physical presence around the fringes. Would like to se him make this slot his own over Parling and then challenge Lawes and Launchbury from there. 6.5

20. Morgan - A great impact sub and really does continue the carrying when Vunipola goes off. I must say though that it doesn't offer a great amount of flexibility on the bench should Wood or Robshaw get injuried. For me England have no fully pinned their colours to the mast of physicality and work rate and to that end I would, should Morgan not fill this slot, we need to look at Haskell covering here or even (heaven forbid) Clark. I don't see Kvesic as anywhere near good enough at present to warrant this place but for now Morgan does the job nicely. 7

21. Dickson - I can completely understand why he got a chance in the Autumn and again why he is on the bench now, as he's one of the form 9's and keeps the Saints moving on nicely at a good tempo. That said, despite him performing reasonably well, for me he's not international quality, especially when you compare him to someone like Genia or Parra. I think the time has come for Youngs to come back into the squad, if anything just to give him some confidence. He has by far the better potential of the 2, and needs to be put under pressure to force him to realise it. 5.5

22. Goode - A good, intelligent player, whose very good at reading a game and has very good positioning as a fullback. That said, he's pretty slow for an international 15 and the way Huget beat him one on one was unacceptable. When you compare him with the current incumbent, Brown is ahead by some way. Also viewing him as a stand in 10, I don't think he has the mental attributes to play there, partly because he doesn't do it day in day out. For me its a waste of a bench slot, as a 15 he doesn't offer enough cover in the back 3 and as a 10 he isn't good enough. I think Ford must be trusted with the 10 cover from the bench from now on, if anything just to ease him into international rugby 10 mins at a time. Also it will take pressure off Farrell as he knows he won't have to play the full 80 mins of every single game. 5.5

23. Barritt - What is there to say. He's a solid operator at 12. Whilst he won't give you the runs of a Tuilagi or the creativity of a Twelvetrees he will offer a solid all round package to complement his never say die attitude in defence. Is he good enough to play international rugby? Yes. Is he good enough to start for England at 12 or 13? No. And that's the problem, the centres of 36 and Burrell, or 36 and Tuilagi (I appreciate they haven't played at this level) offer a nice balance to them. Barritt throws that balance out. Then we come to the bench slot. What flexibility does Barritt offer on the bench, he only covers centre? Also what game changing impact will he offer, or in the case of B. Vunipola/Morgan, will he continue to offer? For me you need to look at the 23 covering the back three at least. To that end, out of the current squad maybe look to Watson coming in here, he can at least offer wing/fullback cover whilst cover for the centres can be provided be Farrell or even May if things were that bad. 5

Overall: Not a bad start for England. Despite the France result the performances have been very encouraging and a marked improvement since last year. Tactically, England have been spot on in how they want to approach the game with only the silly mistakes at the start of the French game (and the subs later on) letting them down. For me, continuity is the key for the coming home fixtures and therefore I would go for the same starting 15. On the bench I would like to see Wilson return if fit, Webber over Youngs and a completely new set of backs replacements, Youngs, Ford and Watson.

Again these are just my thoughts and are not in anyway meant to antagonise anyone else.

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg is certainly a better attacker than Brown. I dont have the stats but Im guessing he has made more meters and beaten more defenders than any FB so far. He is very difficult to tackle and he even steamrolled POM v Ireland. He was top offloader in that match if I remember right.

Haven't seen overall stats but I know Brown was streets ahead in the England Scotland match (pretty much the only game Brown has been at full back bar 7 min of France).

Actually youre right Byrne was playing out of his skin in the mid week games.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg is certainly a better attacker than Brown. I dont have the stats but Im guessing he has made more meters and beaten more defenders than any FB so far. He is very difficult to tackle and he even steamrolled POM v Ireland. He was top offloader in that match if I remember right.

Haven't seen overall stats but I know Brown was streets ahead in the England Scotland match (pretty much the only game Brown has been at full back bar 7 min of France).

Apart the summer and the AIs.....

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg is certainly a better attacker than Brown. I dont have the stats but Im guessing he has made more meters and beaten more defenders than any FB so far. He is very difficult to tackle and he even steamrolled POM v Ireland. He was top offloader in that match if I remember right.

Haven't seen overall stats but I know Brown was streets ahead in the England Scotland match (pretty much the only game Brown has been at full back bar 7 min of France).

Hardly surprising when the Scotland backs couldnt get any ball. I was at the Scotland - Ireland game and I was amazed at how slippy Hogg was. I dont think there is any back bar Fofana who attacks the line and beats defenders better than him. I am going to Twickers for the Ireland game (no tickets yet, got any spares?) so will be having a good look at Brown.

Brad71090 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg is certainly a better attacker than Brown. I dont have the stats but Im guessing he has made more meters and beaten more defenders than any FB so far. He is very difficult to tackle and he even steamrolled POM v Ireland. He was top offloader in that match if I remember right.

Haven't seen overall stats but I know Brown was streets ahead in the England Scotland match (pretty much the only game Brown has been at full back bar 7 min of France).

Apart the summer and the AIs.....

GG was talking about 6Ns wasn't he?

yeah.

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg is certainly a better attacker than Brown. I dont have the stats but Im guessing he has made more meters and beaten more defenders than any FB so far. He is very difficult to tackle and he even steamrolled POM v Ireland. He was top offloader in that match if I remember right.

Haven't seen overall stats but I know Brown was streets ahead in the England Scotland match (pretty much the only game Brown has been at full back bar 7 min of France).

Hardly surprising when the Scotland backs couldnt get any ball. I was at the Scotland - Ireland game and I was amazed at how slippy Hogg was. I dont think there is any back bar Fofana who attacks the line and beats defenders better than him. I am going to Twickers for the Ireland game (no tickets yet, got any spares?) so will be having a good look at Brown.

He pretty much always beats the first man. For someone who isn't that fast he's great at doing it. Playing very well and I'd be surprised if he didn't continue that through the rest of the 6Ns.

Brown hasn’t great pace – same as all the other NH FBs.

Brown doesn’t kick at goal – never mind we always have Farrell (or even 12T).

He does everything else better than the current NH competition (which incidentally isn't exceptional) – high ball, kicking, attacking runs, position*, haircut…

I’m still smiling as he’s continually under-rated.  

* caveat: he does require better ‘wingers’ than Goode and Burrell to help out. And even real wingers can be caught out in their 1st tests. And a deflection and 2 crazy bounces have been known to put a spanner in anyone’s works – he’s great but he isn’t Mystic Meg.

from Jiffys column on BBC

'Rob Kearney had an excellent game for Ireland, but Brown played superbly well again in difficult conditions at Murrayfield. He has carried on where he left off in the autumn: very solid in the air, a threat when he runs the ball back and scored a try for the second week in a row.
Did you know? Brown made more metres (114 from 11 carries) than any other player across the three matches this weekend.'

little_badger wrote:

beshocked wrote:Well actually if you watch the try again you can see about 4 England players too bunched up which allows France to miss them out. I think it's Launchbury who should be further to the right.

Personally I think it's Launchbury's fault.

Which leaves a 3 on 1 with Burrell then after Schwarzewski beats Burrell it's a two on 1 on Goode. Perhaps Goode should have smashed Fickou though but he would be open for the winning pass to the supporting French man.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25971746

4:15.

For the 2nd try either Nowell or Goode should have pounced on the ball - they both got in each other's way.

Hmm I disagree, is it a second row's fault that he didn't tackle a centre down the wing when he's been on the pitch for 80mins when Barritt is stood inside Joe? Surely Barritt should have been pushing out beyond Launchbury as he is quicker, fresher and as a centre should be stood wider?

I will also admit I really rate Launchbury and am leaping to his defence ala knight in shining armour, do not besmirch his name lightly!!

little badger no I don't expect him to tackle a centre. I expect him to tackle Schwarzeski. Burrell is forced to tackle Schwarzeki which gives France the two on 1 with Fickou and whoever the other Frenchman vs Goode who came to cover.

If Launchbury tackles Schwarzeski then Burrell could focus on Fickou with the covering Goode taking on the remaining French player.

How is it Barritt's fault that Launchbury is so defensively close to him? The defensive line should fan out. I thought Launchbury was meant to be a good tackler.

no 7 & 1/2 you are probably right. Barritt should have been barking at Launchbury to not stand so close defensively to himself.

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg is certainly a better attacker than Brown. I dont have the stats but Im guessing he has made more meters and beaten more defenders than any FB so far. He is very difficult to tackle and he even steamrolled POM v Ireland. He was top offloader in that match if I remember right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/9604534/Six-Nations-2014-Live-match-centre.html

Hogg has 1 more offload, the rest he is behind, by far........

England were stretched from the preceding two rucks. It's the defensive system at fault, not the individual players asked to do the impossible. Check my post on the matter, England followed the rucks whilst France under committed and fanned out for the attack.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg is certainly a better attacker than Brown. I dont have the stats but Im guessing he has made more meters and beaten more defenders than any FB so far. He is very difficult to tackle and he even steamrolled POM v Ireland. He was top offloader in that match if I remember right.

Haven't seen overall stats but I know Brown was streets ahead in the England Scotland match (pretty much the only game Brown has been at full back bar 7 min of France).

He even steamrollered POM?!?!?!?! He must be Superman, that's impossible! I'm reliably told POM is the best 6.5 of all time. Even better than SOB

They showed some stats during the Scotland England game. Hogg had made 6 carries for 25m and beaten no defenders, or something similar. Brown had made 10 carries for 110 yards, scored a try and beaten 6 defenders.

One of them was a Lion.

Brad71090 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg is certainly a better attacker than Brown. I dont have the stats but Im guessing he has made more meters and beaten more defenders than any FB so far. He is very difficult to tackle and he even steamrolled POM v Ireland. He was top offloader in that match if I remember right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/9604534/Six-Nations-2014-Live-match-centre.html

Hogg has 1 more offload, the rest he is behind, by far........

Well I got one right. That said his stats are good considering he plays for a team that have been spanked twice. Only one less clean break than the top. Surprised its only three as he seemed to get more than that in the Ireland game alone.

Useful site that, thanks.

ChequeredJersey wrote:
He even steamrollered POM?!?!?!?!  He must be Superman, that's impossible! I'm reliably told POM is the best 6.5 of all time. Even better than SOB

No he is just a back running over a backrow. POM is playing more like a 7 this year.

In my opinion Goode was at fault for the second try as he lacked the pace that allowed the winger to do him on the outside.

The third try was a collective fault of the defence & good play by the French - to try to blame one person more than another is pointless & shows an element of bias.

Brad71090 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg is certainly a better attacker than Brown. I dont have the stats but Im guessing he has made more meters and beaten more defenders than any FB so far. He is very difficult to tackle and he even steamrolled POM v Ireland. He was top offloader in that match if I remember right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/9604534/Six-Nations-2014-Live-match-centre.html

Hogg has 1 more offload, the rest he is behind, by far........

Farrell in the top 10 for breaks made with 2   4 offloads too - joint 3rd.

England and France - both on 18 clean breaks.

England top defenders beaten and metres made too.

Both with the worst tackling success % though.

GunsGerms wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:


He even steamrollered POM?!?!?!?!  He must be Superman, that's impossible! I'm reliably told POM is the best 6.5 of all time. Even better than SOB

No he is just a back running over a backrow. POM is playing more like a 7 this year.

Yes he is a 6.5. He can play 6 and 7

POM walks into dressing rooms, growls at the others and they step aside as he picks whatever number he wants on the day.  
I think he might choose 13 for England.  POM is going to be the second man to drop BOD.

Start the buzz.... it's gonna be big.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:


He even steamrollered POM?!?!?!?!  He must be Superman, that's impossible! I'm reliably told POM is the best 6.5 of all time. Even better than SOB

No he is just a back running over a backrow. POM is playing more like a 7 this year.

Yes he is a 6.5. He can play 6 and 7

He could probably play 8 aswell. Therefore he is a 7.  

GunsGerms wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:


He even steamrollered POM?!?!?!?!  He must be Superman, that's impossible! I'm reliably told POM is the best 6.5 of all time. Even better than SOB

No he is just a back running over a backrow. POM is playing more like a 7 this year.

Yes he is a 6.5. He can play 6 and 7

He could probably play 8 aswell. Therefore he is a 7.

I thought he was wearing the 6 shirt?

He's an 11 on a scale of 10
Next to twelvetrees he's 360

He is but if you look at what he does it is mostly pilfering ala a 7. Henry is clearing out and Heaslip is making all the tackles. Thats obviously a generalisation but seems to be sort of the trend.

He's a flanker, like all other flankers

That's the spirit. Next to McFadden's World Class and now World Famous Centre of Gravity, POM has brought a whole new degree of Irish speaking class to the Irish team.

Things are building nicely to World Domination.

GunsGerms wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Brad71090 wrote:How does everyone rate Mike Brown? I'm Quins fan so im slightly biased. Hes been great over the last 4 months for England and im very happy for him.

Everyone except Guns (Irish) and GE (presumably Kiwi) rates him highly, because they've watched him play

He's not bad. But I just don't get the hysteria around him. Competent whilst not spectacular is how I see him. I'm not sure he's a full back really. His aerial skills lack a little (at the moment I think England are illegally impeding chasers by forming a shield in front of him) and he lacks genuine pace.  My feeling is he's in his best form ever and at that level he's a reasonable option. I get the feeling though that in a few months there will be a clamour for him to be replaced, similar to Ashton before him. Another hero to villain affair.

I rate him as an international class player. He has a good attitude and good all round skills. Like most England backs he doesnt have much xfactor though. I have heard a number of people say he is the best FB in the NH now and pick him for their team of the week etc. IMO Kearney, Halfpenny and Hogg are all better players because they all like Brown do the basics well and have all round skills but each of them are also outstanding at something:

Kearney: Fielding and under the high ball.
Halfpenny: goal kicking and catching.
Hogg: counter attack and offloading.

Not sure Brown is outstanding at anything yet? I also contest that his defense and positioning isnt quite as good as the above three probably because he lacks experience.

Let's see who wins the high ball battle at Twickenham shall we?

Brown is also outstanding at counter attacking and beating players and most importantly breaking the gain every time even if 2 players commit to him. You will see

Kearney is absolutely outstanding under the high ball, arguably the best in the world. Great technique and often ends up winning balls that you wouldn't expect him to.

Should be a good contest between him and Brown based on the matches so far as both seem to be in top form.

jelly wrote:Kearney is absolutely outstanding under the high ball, arguably the best in the world. Great technique and often ends up winning balls that you wouldn't expect him to.

Should be a good contest between him and Brown based on the matches so far as both seem to be in top form.

So is Izzy Folau. I know Kearney is fantastic in this area, but trying to imply Brown is just solid there demonstrates a lack of actually watching him play

Calm down, where do I imply that Brown is "just solid"?!?

I think Kearney is outstanding under the high ball, particularly going forward. I also think it will be a really good contest (surely that suggests that I think Brown is pretty close to Kearney, not that he is "just solid")

Did anyone see Kearndog's garryowen where he caught the ball and halfpenny at the same time and hauled both into the bread basket at the same time mid air and secured the ball for Ireland. Epic stuff.

Hope he catches Brown too. Feast on that Brown.

jelly wrote:Calm down, where do I imply that Brown is "just solid"?!?

I think Kearney is outstanding under the high ball, particularly going forward. I also think it will be a really good contest (surely that suggests that I think Brown is pretty close to Kearney, not that he is "just solid")

You didn't

 Fair enough - though you did quote me when you made the comment!

Sounds like someone has constiptaion

ChequeredJersey wrote:He's a flanker, like all other flankers

Crofts a winger

Shame the match isnt on this weekend. The amount of foreplay for this match I might burst before next weekend.

It'll be Swan Lake out there with them two lads dancing and twirling on their balletic toes for the ball....

either that or it'll be a dour sludge fest of up the jumper stuff for the connoisseurs of scrums'n'crotch grabs

Hopefully the weather clears up. Its horrendous at the moment.

mind you,I don't mind the scrums'n'muck game, if we're competitive at it. Nothing wrong with steam and traction - the Industrial revolution was built on it.

The FB debates going on here remind me of the ones after the AI's when we were discussing world class players (i.e. top 3 in the world in said position).

There was huge debate over the FB's selected with many posters scandalised about certain players being left out in almost every selection. However once the nationalistic arguments etc boiled away it became clear that FB was simply one of the few positions of real strength around the world at the moment. Hence no matter how good you rate one player there will often be an argument another is better.

NZ - Dagg, Piutua
Australia - Folau, Mogg + Beale and O'Connor pending obvious issues.
SA - Le Roux
Argentina - Hernandez - An excellent FB when picked there.
England - Brown, Foden
Wales - Halfpenny
Ireland - Kearney
Scotland - Hogg
France - Dulin - Also wouldn't complain about having Medard or Huget there!

When you consider the lack of quality options for those top three 'world class' spots in other positions those are some pretty strong options! Put simply there aren't many players in that list I'd complain about having at 15 in my side.

Le Roux is a magician. He doesn't get mentioned nearly enough

yappysnap wrote:Le Roux is a magician. He doesn't get mentioned nearly enough

FB and a magician?! Sign him up!

I think the technical term is warlock

What are peoples assessment of the tighthead situation. Obviously we're currently heavily reliant on Cole due to Wilsons injury and he does seem to be not hitting his highest of form due to overuse, but what of the backup? Wilson is due back soon from injury is he not? I think Cole and Wilson are clearly streets ahead of the next incumbents and that is a worry especially given the current situation. Who else is there?

Ideally I would like a situation similar to the one at loosehead where we have 1 outstanding player and 2 quality backups and some young pretenders challenging for the Saxons slots.

Doran Jones? Whats happened to him? Sinklear was shouted up last season? Where have they all gone?

From the threads here I'd say that Doran Jones is wallowing in mediocracy and Sinkler is too young. There does seem to be a bunch of up and coming players (see the Saxons) - i.e. Scot Wilson and Brookes of Newcastle, and Thomas who has been on the bench the last 2 games.

Cole is a freak in that he looked totally at home at international level from day 1. I dont know if any of the alternatives could manage the same. The problem is I guess we dont find out until we try

cheers for that, I think the problem with Thomas is that he isn't renowned for being a particularly good scrummager at premiership level let alone being thrown in at international level. I think he's only on the bench as hes the only the next in line but I don't believe they trust him at set piece time otherwise they would've given him more opportunities.

Its a shame about Doran-Jones as he didn't do too badly in the summer when he came on. I know he's been injured a bit this year but do you think Quins can work their magic on him, because having Cole, Wilson and him on form isn't too bad an option and it gives time for the younger lads to develop.

What are Wilson and Brookes like? I've honestly never seen them play apart from Wilson in the Wolfhounds game and he did seem a big old boy for his age.

PDJ gets steamrolled in the AP. Only ever comes on as a substitute. Definitely not a test prop.

Cole was second choice for his club when he went to the world cup.
Just saying.

Sinckler is years off being ready, nobody said he'd be a viable option by this World Cup!

Thomas will remain 3rd choice (or second due to Davey Wilson's injury) for the time being I imagine. His scrummaging no doubt needs to improve but he has the most experience of the viable options and has been around the squad for a while.

I've knocked him a few times as I rate Brookes higher personally but in terms of scrummaging let's not forget how much Marler and Mako needed to improve when they first came in! If we had one scrummager at TH who was leagues ahead but was being left out due to Thomas' work round the park it would annoy me massively. That isn't the case at current though. Given a year a two for the likes of Thomas, Brookes, Collier and Scott Wilson to seperate themselves with experience and form it may well be though.