Ireland's Summer Tour

First topic message reminder :

Hey all,

Haven't been on here in a while, living out in the middle east so time is short and the chances to watch rugby are a little too rare. I saw the entire 6 Nations and Autumn series but haven't seen as much pro12 or HCup as I would like. So apologies if some of my picks or reasoning are off, I can only judge on what I have seen and am more than happy to watch clips that shed more light on selections etc.

So this is one for the summer tour. I am going to go out on a limb here and say this is probably the biggest summer tour we've had in a while in terms of importance. Last year gave us a look at some lads out in North America and gave some semi meaningful game time to some individuals. Two years ago we very nearly dispelled the curse of the All Blacks and previous ones have all had merit too. This one I feel is different for a number of reasons.

1) We have a new coach who is massively system and skill based. Individuals need to learn the way he wants to play, develop into it and then become comfortable playing with it in International settings. This can't be fully achieved over two games in Argentina but those two games can help.

2) We had the oldest squad of the six nations (significantly oldest). Age is not something that should affect selection but it does slow players down and increase the likelihood of injuries in some cases. We need depth here and in some positions replacements.

3) We have a bank players who are in the 1-10 cap category. These guys need game time to get accustomed to international rugby.

4) This is our last major testing opportunity for new players before the RWC. Players will come through during the 14/15 season at HCup and Pro12 level but next years 6Nations and the majority of the Autumn series will have a fairly settled look to it with less experimentation.

This is who I'd bring to Argentina for the two test series

PROPS:

McGrath: Second choice. Has impressed but has lots to learn and the gametime as first choice will do him good. Healy knows Joe's system and needs rest.
Kilcoyne: Form appears to have fallen from last season. We want depth in this position as it could be an area of strength. Better option than Court imo.
Moore: Could well end up being first choice sooner rather than later. Still has work to do on scrummaging but is developing well. Ross to rest.
Fitzpatrick: If fit he could well end up breaking into matchday 23s. He needs a chance to work in Joe's systems and learn accordingly.

HOOKERS:

Best: An obvious choice for leadership and consistency in the front row where a lot of experimentation is happening.
Cronin: An excellent impact option and deserves to tour.
Strauss: Needs further gametime at international level following his heart condition. A very talented player.

LOCKS:

O'Connell: Captain but among a number who need to mold themselves into Joe's systems still. It's still early days yet regarding new playing style.
Toner: His learning curve is rocketing and this should be allowed to continue.
Henderson: A much more dynamic player that should be explored to give us a different option in selection. Will get gametime there in Ulster 14/15.
Tuohy: I don't think he is back yet but neither is Ryan and like Hendy, Tuohy offers something different in a Hines/Thorn style.

BACKROW:

O'Mahony: Excellent player who is still learning Joe's style and about international rugby. Has a lot of growing to do imo but can become outstanding.
O'Donnell: An exciting and different option and one that should be nurtured to give Schmidt selection choices in horses for courses scenarios.
Henry: Excellent in the 6N, can kick on from this imo.
Murphy: A dynamic, powerful and versatile player that could be perfect for a world cup squad.
Heaslip: Leadership and consistency required much in the same way Best offers this. High standard and versatile playing style.

SCRUMHALVES:

Murray: An all round excellent player and first choice.
Reddan: Playing quite well and doing all the basics really well, needs to gain consistency and show he can excel when his pack are being chewed up.
Marmion: The most potential of all 9s in Ireland. Needs to be given gametime to see what he can do and possibly prepare him for more regular international gametime.

FLYHALVES:

Jackson: Leaving Sexton to rest. Jackson should start as first choice. An excellent player who has more potential and needs time with joe.
Madigan: Needs time to get back to his best and experience in high intensity rugby environments.

CENTRES:

Marshall: Needs gametime as while he has the raw materials he has lots to learn and should be aiming to challenge Darcy more.
Henshaw: My choice for the Irish 13 jersey this summer. Needs gametime at this level and time with Joe. One of my favourite players.

BACK 3:

Zebo: Needs gametime with Joe and to be in this camp. That being said needs to learn a lot before hand and McFadden could get into this squad.
Fitzgerald: Injury dependent for rest of season. Down as back up centre cover too. Could be simply excellent but needs gametime to prove his class.
Earls: Possibly best winger in Ireland in January. I really want to see him back in.
Bowe: Again seen as centre cover. Needs time with Joe and admist lots of good wingers needs to show he is one cut above the rest.
Kearney Jr: Big brother given a rest as he is a clear first choice. Dave given the chance to show he can play 15.
Trimble: Opportunity to show that he is top class after an unbelievable six nations championship.


MAIN GOALS:

1) Come away with a series win.
2) To get options at centre.
3) To create depth at loosehead prop and give Moore/Fitzpatrick the opportunity to prove they are better than Ross.
4) To improve the quality of halfbacks through gametime and time in camp.
5) To incorporate players into the new Irish way of playing the game.

What do people think?
What are peoples main goals.

The kids loved Jimmy Savile too...and the Pied Piper...and the Child Catcher (although I never can work out why in his instance - he scared the living schit outta me as a kid, sweets or no sweets!)  PS, that goes for Jimmy too.  ...Em, and the Piper.
Be careful of those loved by yonder kids is the moral of the tale

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Well Kiss was talking cowpat then since
a) none of the subs missed a tackle, against Wales (TOD made 5, Moore 6 which suggests they were tested). Infact against Wales, the score was 26-3 (i.e., Wales didn't score a try).

By the way, Murphy was on for for 7 mins against England and didn't make one tackle (while players like Henry & POM should have been taken off way earlier). Henry made 15 tackles that day (missing none) which is who Murphy replaced.

Maybe he was but I posted that up there to show that you are talking crap when you say that Kiss criticised ToD. Everything else you posted is just bluster so you can try to get out of admitting that,you can't back up these criticisms of the management team so you should stop spouting rumours and lies.If you want to criticise them because you disagree with decisions they made that's fine but making stuff up is really bad form.

I didn't post that Kiss criticised TOD.

I posted that Feek (the scrum coach) dropped TOD even though Schmidt had told POC (who told TOD) that he was in the 23 for the England game.

We all know it was a cowpat excuse (the only criticism by Kiss was about the defense).

By the way, I don't have a problem with TOD (or any player) being dropped if they get the same treatement as everyone else. Schmidt has been lauded for contacting and explaining why people have been dropped. Why wasn't TOD treated the same way?

You posted this

Sin é wrote:Kiss took the press conference and he mumbled something about TOD being dropped for Jordi Murphy from the 23 because TOD needed to work on his defence.

it has been shown to be a twisted version of what actually happened.The thing is I think you really believed that Kiss said ToD needed to work on his defense.You are so desperate to believe the management have some bias against Munster that you will believe any story that makes them look bad without stopping to find out if it's true,you'll also take a general comment like the one Kiss made and take it as a personal slight on the player you feel has been wronged.

Zebo is not that fast, he's not even the quickest player in the squad. Can we bust some myths here please.

we won the france game!

we won the italy game

we won the wales game

we won the scotland game.

Sorry i forget what my point was

rodders wrote:Zebo is not that fast, he's not even the quickest player in the squad. Can we bust some myths here please.

Who is? Darce?

What we need is a local sports day where the bunting is out, the muffled microphones are out, the 10 scones for a Pound/Euro stalls are up and all the players turn up to be tested against each other - on speed and on egg and spoon race ability whilst in a sack.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:we won the scotland game.

Sorry i forget what my point was

We even won the game against England - which is something else Kiss said in an Interview! But no, Sin didn't want to bring that one up! That would have killed his argument stone dead.

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:Zebo is not that fast, he's not even the quickest player in the squad. Can we bust some myths here please.

Who is?  Darce?

What we need is a local sports day where the bunting is out, the muffled microphones are out, the 10 scones for a Pound/Euro stalls are up and all the players turn up to be tested against each other - on speed and on egg and spoon race ability whilst in a sack.

Well D'arcys beard crosses the finish line of the speed gate whilst he's still on the starting line......

Ferris and Paul Marshall have the fastest sprint times of any Irish player. I think Rob Kearney might be quicker too but not 100%.

Darren Cave and Tommy Bowe are slowest just behind Mike Ross, the Bull and George Hook.

Darren Cave hasn't finished yet

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Well Kiss was talking cowpat then since
a) none of the subs missed a tackle, against Wales (TOD made 5, Moore 6 which suggests they were tested). Infact against Wales, the score was 26-3 (i.e., Wales didn't score a try).

By the way, Murphy was on for for 7 mins against England and didn't make one tackle (while players like Henry & POM should have been taken off way earlier). Henry made 15 tackles that day (missing none) which is who Murphy replaced.

Maybe he was but I posted that up there to show that you are talking crap when you say that Kiss criticised ToD. Everything else you posted is just bluster so you can try to get out of admitting that,you can't back up these criticisms of the management team so you should stop spouting rumours and lies.If you want to criticise them because you disagree with decisions they made that's fine but making stuff up is really bad form.

I didn't post that Kiss criticised TOD.

I posted that Feek (the scrum coach) dropped TOD even though Schmidt had told POC (who told TOD) that he was in the 23 for the England game.

We all know it was a cowpat excuse (the only criticism by Kiss was about the defense).

By the way, I don't have a problem with TOD (or any player) being dropped if they get the same treatement as everyone else. Schmidt has been lauded for contacting and explaining why people have been dropped. Why wasn't TOD treated the same way?

I have every confidence that he was,the only person I have seen mention anything different is you and I think you are so bitter and twisted that you'll jump to believe anything negative about Schmidt.

There is a whole big world out there - Feek dropping TOD is discussed on Munsterfans (i.e., I didn't come up with that conspiracy). Schmidt didn't drop him !

so what sin e. fact is the coaching staff can pick who they bloody well want. the results speak for themselves, ie they one the competition.

Why dont you just enjoy the success rather than being a petty,one eyed so and so.