Ireland (Summer Tour Part 2 and General Discussion)

Continuing on from;

https://www.606v2.com/t53276p1000-ireland-s-summer-tour

Sin é wrote:
There is a whole big world out there - Feek dropping TOD is discussed on Munsterfans (i.e., I didn't come up with that conspiracy). Schmidt didn't drop him !

You can also find places where people discuss being anally probed by little green men,I give the two discussions equal credibility unless you can actually supply some proof.The idle gossip of a bunch of fishwives on Munsterfans doesn't count.

Sin.................... ain't that Munsterfans site just a stir in the nuts to other Provincial sides and other enemies of the Munster state?

I haven't read much of it but I'd assume it's gas stuff with the lads letting run on their fantasies and the idea that one story 10,000 times told must take on gargantuan proportions in the mythical conspiracy stakes.

In short, it's probably a whole lot like here  Don't believe everything you read in the press.

Zebo is not that fast, he's not even the quickest player in the squad. Can we bust some myths here please.

Rodders...Zebo has been clocked at 11.1 for 100 metres according to this article and is apparently the fastest to have ever played for ireland according to the IRFU GPS tracking....

http://www.thestar.ie/star/zebo-is-fast-and-furious-15353/

Maybe you could provide the figures for the ones who are faster...genuinely interested..

Just to add Zebo was included in this report http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1787219-the-fastest-players-in-world-rugby (again not very quantitative)...however you keep saying Zebo is not the fastest in the Irish squad but everything seems to point to him being just that....

Now Rodders... you up next. Paul Marshall, what's his timing? Ferris is probably now obsolete as a contender but if his timing is there you might throw that in too.

Paul Marshall only looks fast because of his bobbly head....

ME-109 wrote:Zebo is not that fast, he's not even the quickest player in the squad. Can we bust some myths here please.

Rodders...Zebo has been clocked at 11.1 for 100 metres according to this article and is apparently the fastest to have ever played for ireland according to the IRFU GPS tracking....

http://www.thestar.ie/star/zebo-is-fast-and-furious-15353/

Maybe you could provide the figures for the ones who are faster...genuinely interested..

Just to add Zebo was included in this report http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1787219-the-fastest-players-in-world-rugby  (again not very quantitative)...however you keep saying Zebo is not the fastest in the Irish squad but everything seems to point to him being just that....

I wonder what Simon Geoghegan, Brendan Mullins and Denis Hickey were clocked at on that GPS thingy. I hear Jack Kyle could fairly motor as well. Still you have at least provided a link.

Sin you could learn a lot from your side kick.

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Zebo is not that fast, he's not even the quickest player in the squad. Can we bust some myths here please.

Rodders...Zebo has been clocked at 11.1 for 100 metres according to this article and is apparently the fastest to have ever played for ireland according to the IRFU GPS tracking....

http://www.thestar.ie/star/zebo-is-fast-and-furious-15353/

Maybe you could provide the figures for the ones who are faster...genuinely interested..

Just to add Zebo was included in this report http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1787219-the-fastest-players-in-world-rugby  (again not very quantitative)...however you keep saying Zebo is not the fastest in the Irish squad but everything seems to point to him being just that....

I wonder what Simon Geoghegan, Brendan Mullins and Denis Hickey were clocked at on that GPS thingy. I hear Jack Kyle could fairly motor as well. Still you have at least provided a link.

Sin you could learn a lot from your side kick.

The backline of Michael Kiernan, Mullin, Paul Deans, Crossan and Ringland was one of the fastest we ever had. Kiernan and Deans were national sprint champions as far as I can remember (Kiernan in the hurdles).

In relation to the discussion in the last thread what is hilarious is the thinking that what Sin É is saying is somewhat outlandish in terms of who was treated badly or by whom. Or that this kind of speculation is somehow a Munster fans conspiracy given the outrageous comments and speculation concerning Kidney in previous years or even EOS before then by certain blue rinsed brigade members (aided and abetted by the constant righteousness emanating from up north).

BTW, are these IRFU GP tracking times registered with a ball in the hands or not?

Afterall, the only worth of speed that isn't supporting a player with a ball in his hands is that player with the ball in his hands running at speed.

In other words, what would Usain Bolt clock up with a ball in his hands and therefore no arm pump force to carry him?

ME-109 wrote:In relation to the discussion in the last thread what is hilarious is the thinking that what Sin É is saying is somewhat outlandish in terms of who was treated badly or by whom. Or that this kind of speculation is somehow a Munster fans conspiracy given the outrageous comments and speculation concerning Kidney in previous years or even EOS before then by certain blue rinsed brigade members (aided and abetted by the constant righteousness emanating from up north).

A Bible Preaching Ladyboy is a sight to behold sure enough.

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Zebo is not that fast, he's not even the quickest player in the squad. Can we bust some myths here please.

Rodders...Zebo has been clocked at 11.1 for 100 metres according to this article and is apparently the fastest to have ever played for ireland according to the IRFU GPS tracking....

http://www.thestar.ie/star/zebo-is-fast-and-furious-15353/

Maybe you could provide the figures for the ones who are faster...genuinely interested..

Just to add Zebo was included in this report http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1787219-the-fastest-players-in-world-rugby  (again not very quantitative)...however you keep saying Zebo is not the fastest in the Irish squad but everything seems to point to him being just that....

I wonder what Simon Geoghegan, Brendan Mullins and Denis Hickey were clocked at on that GPS thingy. I hear Jack Kyle could fairly motor as well. Still you have at least provided a link.

Sin you could learn a lot from your side kick.

You might be surprised to know that myself and Sin É have diverging views on lots of rugby related matters....its called being able to form opinions based on observations. Unlike the sheeplike mentality displayed by the majority of lambs on here....so here is a little video of most of the Irish contributors on 606v2 discussing the Irish team...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N73840RcgYw

ME-109 wrote:In relation to the discussion in the last thread what is hilarious is the thinking that what Sin É is saying is somewhat outlandish in terms of who was treated badly or by whom. Or that this kind of speculation is somehow a Munster fans conspiracy given the outrageous comments and speculation concerning Kidney in previous years or even EOS before then by certain blue rinsed brigade members (aided and abetted by the constant righteousness emanating from up north).

He can think that ToD was badly treated,that's his opinion and it's fine,the lies he's spreading that he can't back up are the problem.

You seem to think that because some people made up stories about Kidney and EoS that gives Sin the right to do the same about the new management team.Most people grow out of that type of thinking.

ME-109 wrote:

You might be surprised to know that myself and Sin É have diverging views on lots of rugby related matters....its called being able to form opinions based on observations. Unlike the sheeplike mentality displayed by the majority of lambs on here....so here is a little video of most of the Irish contributors on 606v2 discussing the Irish team...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N73840RcgYw

The sheeplike mentality must be an Irish thing,after all Sin has informed us that one poster in Munsterfans spreading a rumour with no semblance of evidence has convinced 1000's of people that the ToD dropping story is true.It seems Munsterfans are just as gullible as the rest of us.

Well ASLS I certainly think that TOD wasnt treated very well. There seems to have been some miscommunication or even just no sound reasoning for his being dropped when he was playing well. If it was a simple as the preference being for Murphy who in fairness did nothing when introduced in any of the games then fine - just say it like it is (isnt that what we are all looking for/expecting).

ME-109 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N73840RcgYw

The first one is Gibbo (with a few pints in) and the second one is uncannily like me.  Can't make out any of the others.  But the sheep with the balaclavas.................. well........................... our Righteous folk up North might be able to identify a few of them.....  

RE Munsterfans...I would say the general consensus is what I posted previously...which is a feeling that Leinster players have gotten the breaks in the fifty fifty calls. In a lot of cases the posters on Munsterfans accept this as having knowledge of the Joe system. However the cases of TOD and Zebo were seen as strange given the players that were put in place for them.

Nothing more or less. The TOD dropping story is an interesting one though. Personally I think there is some truth in it but regardless of who/what or where the fact that he was dropped was strange at the time to a lot of Munster fans.

ME-109 wrote:Well ASLS I certainly think that TOD wasnt treated very well. There seems to have been some miscommunication or even just no sound reasoning for his being dropped when he was playing well. If it was a simple as the preference being for Murphy who in fairness did nothing when introduced in any of the games then fine - just say it like it is (isnt that what we are all looking for/expecting).

It's clear as day on Munsterfans what it is. Kiss doesn't like him or rate him and said so publically to anyne who cared to listen.

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N73840RcgYw

The first one is Gibbo (with a few pints in) and the second one is uncannily like me.  Can't make out any of the others.  But the sheep with the balaclavas.................. well........................... our Righteous folk up North might be able to identify a few of them.....  

Nah Fly...this is you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yG_jOdU47M

ME-109 wrote:Well ASLS I certainly think that TOD wasnt treated very well. There seems to have been some miscommunication or even just no sound reasoning for his being dropped when he was playing well. If it was a simple as the preference being for Murphy who in fairness did nothing when introduced in any of the games then fine - just say it like it is (isnt that what we are all looking for/expecting).

That's fine it's your opinion and it's valid ,however spreading a rumour that Feek did the dirty work while Schmidt hid in his office isn't really on.There is nothing to back it up,it seems to be a sole poster on Munsterfans who said it and they've all jumped on it since it fits the narrative they want to believe.

I don't know why ToD was dropped but I'd be very confident that ToD knows.If the story that Sin is spinning were true could you think of why Schmidt would treat him like that.Ian Keatley is on record as having been in contact with Schmidt and knowing what areas he has to work on to get in the squad,,now if he's giving feedback to a guy who he has never put in a matchday squad does it seem realistic that he wouldn't give the same feedback to ToD.The whole story just makes no sense.

  OH God... that was hilarious.

Thanks for that, Me. My eyes watered. I'm having a good time these last couple of days with the craic, and Dunphy crying and Giles talking about the need for Granny Killers. Summer has arrived.   

Now now ME-109, that is being far too reasoned

Let's keep this on track, Joe out!

It's interesting that that if a blue player comes in ahead of a red player it's a travesty but if a red player comes in instead of a blue player it's rotation. It's the white and green brigades that have a right to keep the chip on the shoulder.

Exactly, I don't think rotation is a big problem. There was a bit of grumbling from up North when Madigan got picked on the bench for the last game but ultimately most people just accepted it and moved on- certainly after the game! Whenever the bench is picked, its not just the next 8 best players it's about coverage and versatility as well.

ME-109 wrote:

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Zebo is not that fast, he's not even the quickest player in the squad. Can we bust some myths here please.

Rodders...Zebo has been clocked at 11.1 for 100 metres according to this article and is apparently the fastest to have ever played for ireland according to the IRFU GPS tracking....

http://www.thestar.ie/star/zebo-is-fast-and-furious-15353/

Maybe you could provide the figures for the ones who are faster...genuinely interested..

Just to add Zebo was included in this report http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1787219-the-fastest-players-in-world-rugby  (again not very quantitative)...however you keep saying Zebo is not the fastest in the Irish squad but everything seems to point to him being just that....

I wonder what Simon Geoghegan, Brendan Mullins and Denis Hickey were clocked at on that GPS thingy. I hear Jack Kyle could fairly motor as well. Still you have at least provided a link.

Sin you could learn a lot from your side kick.

You might be surprised to know that myself and Sin É have diverging views on lots of rugby related matters....its called being able to form opinions based on observations. Unlike the sheeplike mentality displayed by the majority of lambs on here....so here is a little video of most of the Irish contributors on 606v2 discussing the Irish team...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N73840RcgYw

Like you wanting to be referred to as Robin and your hero insisting on calling you Boy Wonder?

ME-109 wrote:

You might be surprised to know that myself and Sin É have diverging views on lots of rugby related matters....its called being able to form opinions based on observations. Unlike the sheeplike mentality displayed by the majority of lambs on here...

This. So many people on here blindly believe everything that is said by Schmidt and as such are unable to form their own opinions.

Its easy to have a go at Munsterfans and say that we are all sheep for listening to one poster. The poster in question, has very close ties to many players (past and present) and the club itself. No shoite talking and is rarely wrong in what he says.

Notch wrote:Exactly, I don't think rotation is a big problem. There was a bit of grumbling from up North when Madigan got picked on the bench for the last game but ultimately most people just accepted it and moved on- certainly after the game! Whenever the bench is picked, its not just the next 8 best players it's about coverage and versatility as well.

And yet, if dk had done the same thing or treated Luke Marshall as Joe did, the bleating would have deafened Black Sabbath

Well by the end of his reign it was bizarre, some of the decisions he was making. Paddy Wallace from the beach to the breach? O'Gara in the Six Nations squad last year? These were just madness. He was a man who was utterly and totally at sea. Joe knows what he's about. If the wheels come off he'll lose the benefit of the doubt, but not as much as Kidney with his bizarre and confidence shattering press conferences.

I don't really have an issue with how he treats Marshall, if he wants to drop him, because I'd drop him at Ulster and if he isn't making our best team why should he play for Ireland?

No, the fair comparison is if everyone was giving off about Kidney in 2009. Thats the equivalent of what Sin is up to. Ploughing the lonely furrow of having a cut off a guy who has been very successful.

So far he has been lucky and of course everyone likes a lucky general. Phase 1 over, Phase 2 should be interesting

Nachos Jones wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

You might be surprised to know that myself and Sin É have diverging views on lots of rugby related matters....its called being able to form opinions based on observations. Unlike the sheeplike mentality displayed by the majority of lambs on here...

This. So many people on here blindly believe everything that is said by Schmidt and as such are unable to form their own opinions.

Its easy to have a go at Munsterfans and say that we are all sheep for listening to one poster. The poster in question, has very close ties to many players (past and present) and the club itself. No shoite talking and is rarely wrong in what he says.

Yet you blindly believe an anonymous poster with no proof that what he says is true.I'll stick to the most likely explanation,Schmidt probably treated ToD just like everyone else.The fact that no stories resembling what you have said has leaked to the press leads me to believe this guy on Munsterfans is full of it,after all if a random poster on Munsterfans got wind of it surely someone else would too?

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Zebo is not that fast, he's not even the quickest player in the squad. Can we bust some myths here please.

Rodders...Zebo has been clocked at 11.1 for 100 metres according to this article and is apparently the fastest to have ever played for ireland according to the IRFU GPS tracking....

http://www.thestar.ie/star/zebo-is-fast-and-furious-15353/

Maybe you could provide the figures for the ones who are faster...genuinely interested..

Just to add Zebo was included in this report http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1787219-the-fastest-players-in-world-rugby  (again not very quantitative)...however you keep saying Zebo is not the fastest in the Irish squad but everything seems to point to him being just that....

I wonder what Simon Geoghegan, Brendan Mullins and Denis Hickey were clocked at on that GPS thingy. I hear Jack Kyle could fairly motor as well. Still you have at least provided a link.

Sin you could learn a lot from your side kick.

You might be surprised to know that myself and Sin É have diverging views on lots of rugby related matters....its called being able to form opinions based on observations. Unlike the sheeplike mentality displayed by the majority of lambs on here....so here is a little video of most of the Irish contributors on 606v2 discussing the Irish team...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N73840RcgYw

Like you wanting to be referred to as Robin and your hero insisting on calling you Boy Wonder?

Now I know what is meant by the term "savaged by a sheep"...surely you can do better than that...

Anyhow...Rodders, where are those myth busting times...

Notch wrote:Well by the end of his reign it was bizarre, some of the decisions he was making. Paddy Wallace from the beach to the breach? O'Gara in the Six Nations squad last year? These were just madness. He was a man who was utterly and totally at sea. Joe knows what he's about. If the wheels come off he'll lose the benefit of the doubt, but not as much as Kidney with his bizarre and confidence shattering press conferences.

I don't really have an issue with how he treats Marshall, if he wants to drop him, because I'd drop him at Ulster and if he isn't making our best team why should he play for Ireland?

No, the fair comparison is if everyone was giving off about Kidney in 2009. Thats the equivalent of what Sin is up to. Ploughing the lonely furrow of having a cut off a guy who has been very successful.

Lol he actually had a decent game bar one bad pass and getting stepped badly. His playmaking game was very good.

I know, I don't have anything against him I would just give Olding the first bite of the cherry.

Yeah i'm excited to see if Stuart can come back as good as he was before his injury. Fingers crossed.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

ME-109 wrote:In relation to the discussion in the last thread what is hilarious is the thinking that what Sin É is saying is somewhat outlandish in terms of who was treated badly or by whom. Or that this kind of speculation is somehow a Munster fans conspiracy given the outrageous comments and speculation concerning Kidney in previous years or even EOS before then by certain blue rinsed brigade members (aided and abetted by the constant righteousness emanating from up north).

He can think that ToD was badly treated,that's his opinion and it's fine,the lies he's spreading that he can't back up are the problem.

You seem to think that because some people made up stories about Kidney and EoS that gives Sin the right to do the same about the new management team.Most people grow out of that type of thinking.

You calling me a liar now? Prove it  

You developing a guilty conscience now about the horrible stuff you churned out about Kidney. I seem to recall you particularly enjoying the Kidney 'clock'. My criticism of Schmidt poor man management and selection strategy isn't even in the same stratosphere as the nasty Poopie that Kidney got. Hopefully some of you should learn that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander - though I would never stoop to the horrible stuff that was flung at Kidney.

Now grow a pair and accept that Schmidt isn't perfect.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

You might be surprised to know that myself and Sin É have diverging views on lots of rugby related matters....its called being able to form opinions based on observations. Unlike the sheeplike mentality displayed by the majority of lambs on here...

This. So many people on here blindly believe everything that is said by Schmidt and as such are unable to form their own opinions.

Its easy to have a go at Munsterfans and say that we are all sheep for listening to one poster. The poster in question, has very close ties to many players (past and present) and the club itself. No shoite talking and is rarely wrong in what he says.

Yet you blindly believe an anonymous poster with no proof that what he says is true.I'll stick to the most likely explanation,Schmidt probably treated ToD just like everyone else.The fact that no stories resembling what you have said has leaked to the press leads me to believe this guy on Munsterfans is full of it,after all if a random poster on Munsterfans got wind of it surely someone else would too?

Thats the point - he didn't treat TOD like everyone else.

Ha, ha you think guys who are hoping to be in Schmidt's plans are going to say anything other than that he is the greatest thing since the sliced pan.

It will be interesting to hear what Darren Cave is dropped what he has to say!

He's not calling you a liar, Sin.  He might be calling the guy you quote from Munsterfans a liar.  No, sorry, he might be calling the inside-Ireland-camp snitch a liar - that guy who told the ToD story to the guy on Munsterfans, who told it to Munsterfans, who gave it to you, who gave it to us.  He might be calling him a liar.

Who was he, Sin?  That guy who told the guy who told Munsterfans who told you who told us?

Name and shame that guy, Sin.  And if his name turns out to be Mr Urban Legend then we can hardly believe anything that guy ever says, can we?  He's a known stirrer.

SecretFly wrote:He's not calling you a liar, Sin.  He might be calling the guy you quote from Munsterfans a liar.  No, sorry, he might be calling the inside-Ireland-camp snitch a liar - that guy who told the ToD story to the guy on Munsterfans, who told it to Munsterfans, who gave it to you, who gave it to us.  He might be calling him a liar.

Who was he, Sin?  That guy who told the guy who told Munsterfans who told you who told us?

Name and shame that guy, Sin.  And if his name turns out to be Mr Urban Legend then we can hardly believe anything that guy ever says, can we?  He's a known stirrer.

I know the guy's real name. He would be the less pompous version of Geoff on Munsterfans   

Sin é wrote:It will be interesting to hear what Darren Cave is dropped what he has to say!

He can't really say anything can he? He's been given two tests to try and impress.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

ME-109 wrote:In relation to the discussion in the last thread what is hilarious is the thinking that what Sin É is saying is somewhat outlandish in terms of who was treated badly or by whom. Or that this kind of speculation is somehow a Munster fans conspiracy given the outrageous comments and speculation concerning Kidney in previous years or even EOS before then by certain blue rinsed brigade members (aided and abetted by the constant righteousness emanating from up north).

He can think that ToD was badly treated,that's his opinion and it's fine,the lies he's spreading that he can't back up are the problem.

You seem to think that because some people made up stories about Kidney and EoS that gives Sin the right to do the same about the new management team.Most people grow out of that type of thinking.

You calling me a liar now? Prove it  

You developing a guilty conscience now about the horrible stuff you churned out about Kidney. I seem to recall you particularly enjoying the Kidney 'clock'. My criticism of Schmidt poor man management and selection strategy isn't even in the same stratosphere as the nasty Poopie that Kidney got. Hopefully some of you should learn that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander - [b]though I would never stoop to the horrible stuff that was flung at Kidney.[\b]

Now grow a pair and accept that Schmidt isn't perfect.

You already have stooped below that level.I didn't particularly enjoy the Kidney clock,I just couldn't wait til it was at zero since he was doing a terrible job and running the team into the ground.

You can keep spreading rumours but nobody believes them on here,we all know how bitter you are,I'm sorry that your hero was a failure and that a former Leinster coach will eclipse him in just 2 seasons in the job but grow a pair and accept that Schmidt might not be perfect but he's the best we've ever had.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

You might be surprised to know that myself and Sin É have diverging views on lots of rugby related matters....its called being able to form opinions based on observations. Unlike the sheeplike mentality displayed by the majority of lambs on here...

This. So many people on here blindly believe everything that is said by Schmidt and as such are unable to form their own opinions.

Its easy to have a go at Munsterfans and say that we are all sheep for listening to one poster. The poster in question, has very close ties to many players (past and present) and the club itself. No shoite talking and is rarely wrong in what he says.

Yet you blindly believe an anonymous poster with no proof that what he says is true.I'll stick to the most likely explanation,Schmidt probably treated ToD just like everyone else.The fact that no stories resembling what you have said has leaked to the press leads me to believe this guy on Munsterfans is full of it,after all if a random poster on Munsterfans got wind of it surely someone else would too?

Thats the point - he didn't treat TOD like everyone else.

Ha, ha you think guys who are hoping to be in Schmidt's plans are going to say anything other than that he is the greatest thing since the sliced pan.

It will be interesting to hear what Darren Cave is dropped what he has to say!

As you said to me in a previous post,prove it.

Jeez, we'll see whether he's one of the best we've had when he's done. We all thought Kidney could do this job after a very impressive start and it backfired on us big time. Let's see what we're like across the next couple of years. He needs to keep us moving forward. We've won 7 out of 10 test matches this season and a championship to boot and he needs to keep us at that standard, minimum.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

ME-109 wrote:In relation to the discussion in the last thread what is hilarious is the thinking that what Sin É is saying is somewhat outlandish in terms of who was treated badly or by whom. Or that this kind of speculation is somehow a Munster fans conspiracy given the outrageous comments and speculation concerning Kidney in previous years or even EOS before then by certain blue rinsed brigade members (aided and abetted by the constant righteousness emanating from up north).

He can think that ToD was badly treated,that's his opinion and it's fine,the lies he's spreading that he can't back up are the problem.

You seem to think that because some people made up stories about Kidney and EoS that gives Sin the right to do the same about the new management team.Most people grow out of that type of thinking.

You calling me a liar now? Prove it  

You developing a guilty conscience now about the horrible stuff you churned out about Kidney. I seem to recall you particularly enjoying the Kidney 'clock'. My criticism of Schmidt poor man management and selection strategy isn't even in the same stratosphere as the nasty Poopie that Kidney got. Hopefully some of you should learn that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander - [b]though I would never stoop to the horrible stuff that was flung at Kidney.[\b]

Now grow a pair and accept that Schmidt isn't perfect.

You already have stooped below that level.I didn't particularly enjoy the Kidney clock,I just couldn't wait til it was at zero since he was doing a terrible job and running the team into the ground.

You can keep spreading rumours but nobody believes them on here,we all know how bitter you are,I'm sorry that your hero was a failure and that a former Leinster coach will eclipse him in just 2 seasons in the job but grow a pair and accept that Schmidt might not be perfect but he's the best we've ever had.

You are making sweeping statements about people who read this forum believing that TOD was dropped without any of the usual helpful workons that Schmidt is supposedly meant to give to players he is dropping.

How would you rate a coach who wasn't evenhanded in how he dealt with players when dropping them?

Schmit failed to do what Kidney did in his first season, by the way. Schmidt didn't win a Grand Slam or the Churchill Cup. It will be interesting to see if he wins IRB World Coach of the Year in his tenure. It must kill you that Kidney is up there with the great coaches like G Henry, Woodward, Hansen and White who also have won World Coach of the Year.

Notch wrote:Jeez, we'll see whether he's one of the best we've had when he's done. We all thought Kidney could do this job after a very impressive start and it backfired on us big time. Let's see what we're like across the next couple of years. He needs to keep us moving forward. We've won 7 out of 10 test matches this season and a championship to boot and he needs to keep us at that standard, minimum.

Correct.  He has much pressure on him.  And the thing is he knows about it every waking moment. I think he was comfortable enough at Provincial level and yet still fretted endlessly about details. Now at International, I really do sense his unending worrying and it's too early to say whether he might not even crumble under the strain of his perfectionism when allied to the limited players we can provide to his blueprint.

But anyway, if he stays true to form, Joe is here for only two more years at most, then he'll move on - success or failure.  He'll obviously hope more success than failure as do we all, but it's up in the air right now.  When I see the ABs and England fight out their three volcanic games recently it just points out to me how far Ireland might be deluding itself about an UP and UP period from here on in.  

There is so much work to do to keep challenging even England never mind the heady mix that New Zealand still shames most nations with.  Yep, Ireland progression from here could yet be another false dawn to add to so many in our collection.

Sin é wrote:It must kill you that Kidney is up there with the great coaches like G Henry, Woodward, Hansen and White who also have won World Coach of the Year.

Well it does kill me, yeah. Have to admit it. Wished he had more of them trophies and gold things, Sin, not less of them. He just slid too much in the latter years of his tenancy.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:He's not calling you a liar, Sin.  He might be calling the guy you quote from Munsterfans a liar.  No, sorry, he might be calling the inside-Ireland-camp snitch a liar - that guy who told the ToD story to the guy on Munsterfans, who told it to Munsterfans, who gave it to you, who gave it to us.  He might be calling him a liar.

Who was he, Sin?  That guy who told the guy who told Munsterfans who told you who told us?

Name and shame that guy, Sin.  And if his name turns out to be Mr Urban Legend then we can hardly believe anything that guy ever says, can we?  He's a known stirrer.

I know the guy's real name. He would be the less pompous version of Geoff on Munsterfans   

What was that someone said about being savaged by a sheep   

It occurs to me I've not done bad got to 60 and I honestly cant recall any one calling me pompous before   

Have some strange habits to be sure (not adverse to a Victor Meldrew moment for example)but in the lexicon of character traits pretty certain none of my friends or realtives would include pomposity  

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:It must kill you that Kidney is up there with the great coaches like G Henry, Woodward, Hansen and White who also have won World Coach of the Year.

Well it does kill me, yeah.  Have to admit it.  Wished he had more of them trophies and gold things, Sin, not less of them.  He just slid too much in the latter years of his tenancy.

You will find a similar situation in the near future in Ireland - it may have started already. That was a poor tour to Argentina. Schmidt is on a steep learning curve in international coaching. His micro management coaching ethos is not going to work at international level as he doesn't have the players long enough and there are not enough opportunities to really give everyone a go (apart from not having the playing personnel).

Not having played for coached at international level is a huge disadvantage for him. Its not as if any of his assistants have played much at that level either.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:He's not calling you a liar, Sin.  He might be calling the guy you quote from Munsterfans a liar.  No, sorry, he might be calling the inside-Ireland-camp snitch a liar - that guy who told the ToD story to the guy on Munsterfans, who told it to Munsterfans, who gave it to you, who gave it to us.  He might be calling him a liar.

Who was he, Sin?  That guy who told the guy who told Munsterfans who told you who told us?

Name and shame that guy, Sin.  And if his name turns out to be Mr Urban Legend then we can hardly believe anything that guy ever says, can we?  He's a known stirrer.

I know the guy's real name. He would be the less pompous version of Geoff on Munsterfans   

What was that someone said about being savaged by a sheep   

It occurs to me I've not done bad got to 60 and I honestly cant recall any one calling me pompous before   

Have some strange habits to be sure (not adverse to a Victor Meldrew moment for example)but in the lexicon of character traits pretty certain none of my friends or realtives would include pomposity  

The reason why no one up to now thinks you are pompous is more than likely because you hang around with a load of pompous people who don't consider themselves to be pompous   

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:It must kill you that Kidney is up there with the great coaches like G Henry, Woodward, Hansen and White who also have won World Coach of the Year.

Well it does kill me, yeah.  Have to admit it.  Wished he had more of them trophies and gold things, Sin, not less of them.  He just slid too much in the latter years of his tenancy.

You will [might!] find a similar situation in the near future in Ireland - it may have started already. That was a poor tour to Argentina. Schmidt is on a steep learning curve in international coaching. His micro management coaching ethos is not going to work at international level as he doesn't have the players long enough and there are not enough opportunities to really give everyone a go (apart from not having the playing personnel).

Not having played for coached at international level is a huge disadvantage for him. Its not as if any of his assistants have played much at that level either.

But I've already alluded to those possible speed bumps in the near future, Sin.  I've already talked about them plenty of times.  And I've also done a line (or a few Bibles) on the poor Argentina tour.  

BUT...would you now downgrade a red spotted Kidney if you saw one in a tree and he couldn't produce the song you felt sure he'd be able to sing when you first spotted him at the beginning of his stint? Would you, Sin? Would you do that now? Admit Declan sunk under the expectations people initally had for him at International level?