Ireland's Summer Tour

First topic message reminder :

Hey all,

Haven't been on here in a while, living out in the middle east so time is short and the chances to watch rugby are a little too rare. I saw the entire 6 Nations and Autumn series but haven't seen as much pro12 or HCup as I would like. So apologies if some of my picks or reasoning are off, I can only judge on what I have seen and am more than happy to watch clips that shed more light on selections etc.

So this is one for the summer tour. I am going to go out on a limb here and say this is probably the biggest summer tour we've had in a while in terms of importance. Last year gave us a look at some lads out in North America and gave some semi meaningful game time to some individuals. Two years ago we very nearly dispelled the curse of the All Blacks and previous ones have all had merit too. This one I feel is different for a number of reasons.

1) We have a new coach who is massively system and skill based. Individuals need to learn the way he wants to play, develop into it and then become comfortable playing with it in International settings. This can't be fully achieved over two games in Argentina but those two games can help.

2) We had the oldest squad of the six nations (significantly oldest). Age is not something that should affect selection but it does slow players down and increase the likelihood of injuries in some cases. We need depth here and in some positions replacements.

3) We have a bank players who are in the 1-10 cap category. These guys need game time to get accustomed to international rugby.

4) This is our last major testing opportunity for new players before the RWC. Players will come through during the 14/15 season at HCup and Pro12 level but next years 6Nations and the majority of the Autumn series will have a fairly settled look to it with less experimentation.

This is who I'd bring to Argentina for the two test series

PROPS:

McGrath: Second choice. Has impressed but has lots to learn and the gametime as first choice will do him good. Healy knows Joe's system and needs rest.
Kilcoyne: Form appears to have fallen from last season. We want depth in this position as it could be an area of strength. Better option than Court imo.
Moore: Could well end up being first choice sooner rather than later. Still has work to do on scrummaging but is developing well. Ross to rest.
Fitzpatrick: If fit he could well end up breaking into matchday 23s. He needs a chance to work in Joe's systems and learn accordingly.

HOOKERS:

Best: An obvious choice for leadership and consistency in the front row where a lot of experimentation is happening.
Cronin: An excellent impact option and deserves to tour.
Strauss: Needs further gametime at international level following his heart condition. A very talented player.

LOCKS:

O'Connell: Captain but among a number who need to mold themselves into Joe's systems still. It's still early days yet regarding new playing style.
Toner: His learning curve is rocketing and this should be allowed to continue.
Henderson: A much more dynamic player that should be explored to give us a different option in selection. Will get gametime there in Ulster 14/15.
Tuohy: I don't think he is back yet but neither is Ryan and like Hendy, Tuohy offers something different in a Hines/Thorn style.

BACKROW:

O'Mahony: Excellent player who is still learning Joe's style and about international rugby. Has a lot of growing to do imo but can become outstanding.
O'Donnell: An exciting and different option and one that should be nurtured to give Schmidt selection choices in horses for courses scenarios.
Henry: Excellent in the 6N, can kick on from this imo.
Murphy: A dynamic, powerful and versatile player that could be perfect for a world cup squad.
Heaslip: Leadership and consistency required much in the same way Best offers this. High standard and versatile playing style.

SCRUMHALVES:

Murray: An all round excellent player and first choice.
Reddan: Playing quite well and doing all the basics really well, needs to gain consistency and show he can excel when his pack are being chewed up.
Marmion: The most potential of all 9s in Ireland. Needs to be given gametime to see what he can do and possibly prepare him for more regular international gametime.

FLYHALVES:

Jackson: Leaving Sexton to rest. Jackson should start as first choice. An excellent player who has more potential and needs time with joe.
Madigan: Needs time to get back to his best and experience in high intensity rugby environments.

CENTRES:

Marshall: Needs gametime as while he has the raw materials he has lots to learn and should be aiming to challenge Darcy more.
Henshaw: My choice for the Irish 13 jersey this summer. Needs gametime at this level and time with Joe. One of my favourite players.

BACK 3:

Zebo: Needs gametime with Joe and to be in this camp. That being said needs to learn a lot before hand and McFadden could get into this squad.
Fitzgerald: Injury dependent for rest of season. Down as back up centre cover too. Could be simply excellent but needs gametime to prove his class.
Earls: Possibly best winger in Ireland in January. I really want to see him back in.
Bowe: Again seen as centre cover. Needs time with Joe and admist lots of good wingers needs to show he is one cut above the rest.
Kearney Jr: Big brother given a rest as he is a clear first choice. Dave given the chance to show he can play 15.
Trimble: Opportunity to show that he is top class after an unbelievable six nations championship.


MAIN GOALS:

1) Come away with a series win.
2) To get options at centre.
3) To create depth at loosehead prop and give Moore/Fitzpatrick the opportunity to prove they are better than Ross.
4) To improve the quality of halfbacks through gametime and time in camp.
5) To incorporate players into the new Irish way of playing the game.

What do people think?
What are peoples main goals.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Thats the strangest thing of all- there's such a massive discontent between that and the reality of the kind of rugby the teams he has coached play. His teams have always played rugby that is very easy on the eye.

You think Ireland were easy on the eye in the six nations?  

better than last year and the year before!!

please dont take that as a critism of kidney or a munster leinster bias. Kidney has done enough in his career to prove his is a very good coach.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Thats the strangest thing of all- there's such a massive discontent between that and the reality of the kind of rugby the teams he has coached play. His teams have always played rugby that is very easy on the eye.

You think Ireland were easy on the eye in the six nations?  

No.  Two too many Munster men spoiled the fireworks  But Joe is learnin' them quick.  They'll get up to speed on the arty stuff in time ..... 

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:whats the deal Sin. why do you dislike schmidt so much?

I don't dislike Schmidt. In fact he seems to be personally charming.

There are somethings which I think he is a bit two faced about and I'm not impressed with how he has dealt with Zebo.
He is a very conservative coach and I find it disheartening that there seems to be little space for any flair in his team.

so its down to Zebo not playing in the 6 nations. in terms of the flair topic i totally disagree. do you not feel while in charge of leinster they played extremely attractive rugby? (try and forget it was leinster playing and envisage any other team)

Not as attractive a when Knox was coaching them!

Isa was the only back that was allowed escape every now and then from ruck duty!

Not just Zebo - he has handled others poorly as well. You'd think Ireland had an endless supply of talent that they can be easily consigned to the rubbish bin.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Thats the strangest thing of all- there's such a massive discontent between that and the reality of the kind of rugby the teams he has coached play. His teams have always played rugby that is very easy on the eye.

You think Ireland were easy on the eye in the six nations?  

No.  Two too many Munster men spoiled the fireworks  But Joe is learnin' them quick.  They'll get up to speed on the arty stuff in time ..... 

Yea, 2 Munstermen too many   
He had most that team for the last 4 years with Leinster   

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Thats the strangest thing of all- there's such a massive discontent between that and the reality of the kind of rugby the teams he has coached play. His teams have always played rugby that is very easy on the eye.

You think Ireland were easy on the eye in the six nations?  

better than last year and the year before!!

please dont take that as a critism of kidney or a munster leinster bias. Kidney has done enough in his career to prove his is a very good coach.

Look - the comment was made that Schmidt coached teams are easy on the eye.

I didn't think Ireland in the 6 Nations were easy on the eye (nothing to do with how easy they were on the eye the year before etc. etc.).

Only 15 on any one team, Sin...and a few others on the bench.  Just how many changes would you have made to the squad/bench/team as you chased a 6N playing some of the most clinical rugby of the tournament?

Sometimes you just have to settle - as league teams would know all about when they get a good run in the HEC for example.  "Now's not the time to teach or test" as it were.

Yeah definitely, especially in the Italy and France games. Very controlled in the first two games. That versatility is very pleasing.

SecretFly wrote:Only 15 on any one team, Sin...and a few others on the bench.  Just how many changes would you have made to the squad/bench/team as you chased a 6N playing some of the most clinical rugby of the tournament?

Sometimes you just have to settle - as league teams would know all about when they get a good run in the HEC for example.  "Now's not the time to teach or test" as it were.

What has that got to do with how easy on the eye they were?

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Only 15 on any one team, Sin...and a few others on the bench.  Just how many changes would you have made to the squad/bench/team as you chased a 6N playing some of the most clinical rugby of the tournament?

Sometimes you just have to settle - as league teams would know all about when they get a good run in the HEC for example.  "Now's not the time to teach or test" as it were.

What has that got to do with how easy on the eye they were?

you said he treated some players unfairly. if so what squad would you have picked, say for the last match.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Only 15 on any one team, Sin...and a few others on the bench.  Just how many changes would you have made to the squad/bench/team as you chased a 6N playing some of the most clinical rugby of the tournament?

Sometimes you just have to settle - as league teams would know all about when they get a good run in the HEC for example.  "Now's not the time to teach or test" as it were.

What has that got to do with how easy on the eye they were?

Absolutely not a blinking thing to do with the pleasing on the eye bitz

That was a reference to your other point about how Joe, in your opinion, seems to just have consigned some players to the scrap heap by not choosing them or giving them time in the last 6N.
Keep up with your own thoughts. I can't be going back over old ground pointing out your posts for you

I don't dislike Schmidt, in fact I think that he is the right man for the job. I was incredibly peeved at him for not picking Zebo over Dave Kearney during the 6N simply because I think that Zebo and his attacking flair are a must for Ireland.

The picking of D'Arcy continues to confuse me as well. Once a very good player but not up to international speed so much anymore and the 6N was the perfect time to get a younger player alongside BOD.

Those and keeping an obviously hurt Sexton on the field when everyman and his dog could see he was struggling.

These are only small things in the big picture but they did raise an err of concern from me in regards to his supposed great man management skills.

Its the England game he got some of his selection wrong. Apart from not having a bit of flair and pace in attack (Zebo), what was the point of having Jordi Murphy on the bench and then only have him on for 6 minutes at the end, particularly when it was such a physical match. POM was obviously injured and he left him on for 70 minutes (replacing him with Henderson). Murphy replaced Henry after that substitution.

Win that game and Schmidt would have lived up to Declan Kidney's international legend!

I think he's been very clear about his selection and provided strong one to one feed back to the guys he left out - namely Zebo, Cave and Luke Marshall about areas he wanted them to work on.

He plays a pod system in attach which requires huge work off the ball. D'arcy and Dave Kearney do that work and follow the system better than others which is why they get the nod - same with Trimble.

rodders wrote:I think he's been very clear about his selection and provided strong one to one feed back to the guys he left out - namely Zebo, Cave and Luke Marshall about areas he wanted them to work on.

He plays a pod system in attach which requires huge work off the ball. D'arcy and Dave Kearney do that work and follow the system better than others which is why they get the nod - same with Trimble.

Well D'Arcy has to do to loads of work off the ball because he constantly drops it in contact ( ) but what work does Dave Kearney do off the ball?

Rods, what do you expect all of them to say when they are hoping to be picked by Schmidt.

I haven't heard what POD was told to work on. Or what Murphy did to make the bench.

Nachos Jones wrote:

rodders wrote:I think he's been very clear about his selection and provided strong one to one feed back to the guys he left out - namely Zebo, Cave and Luke Marshall about areas he wanted them to work on.

He plays a pod system in attach which requires huge work off the ball. D'arcy and Dave Kearney do that work and follow the system better than others which is why they get the nod - same with Trimble.

Well D'Arcy has to do to loads of work off the ball because he constantly drops it in contact ( ) but what work does Dave Kearney do off the ball?

He is an auxiliary flanker (like all the backs) - he just needs to hit loads of rucks.

Nachos Jones wrote:I don't dislike Schmidt, in fact I think that he is the right man for the job. I was incredibly peeved at him for not picking Zebo over Dave Kearney during the 6N simply because I think that Zebo and his attacking flair are a must for Ireland.

The picking of D'Arcy continues to confuse me as well. Once a very good player but not up to international speed so much anymore and the 6N was the perfect time to get a younger player alongside BOD.

Those and keeping an obviously hurt Sexton on the field when everyman and his dog could see he was struggling.

These are only small things in the big picture but they did raise an err of concern from me in regards to his supposed great man management skills.

All reasonable observations Nachos.  I was concerned in the first few games myself about where exactly we were going and what Schmidt was attempting.  And yep, the Sexton thing was bizarre...but then even in the after-chat here with English guys and Irish people, many of them didn't recognise the fact that Sexton seemed well out of things.  So for whatever reason, some of us seemed to have clearly seen that Sexton looked unable to continue and many just thought he made a number of bad decisions.  Weird game.

But on the D'arcy thing.  Can't agree with that at all.  D'arcy might be well off his own earlier standards but the argument really can't be had that there are alternatives that can hack International better, given that he's the one that played through the winning 6N itself and he's the one who ended up a decisive ingredient in the Leinster performance that gave them the Pro12 at the weekend.  Perhaps D'arcy was shoring up BOD rather than being someone that should have stepped aside to leave BOD on the field?
If BOD was asked who he felt would drag him through one more 6N, I think we all know D'arcy would be the man he would have mentioned.

D'arcy ain't finished yet folks.... and by the way he delighted in the Madigan/Kirchner axis, new fire might be breathed into the old wreck if given a new 13 to play with.

Sin é wrote:Rods, what do you expect all of them to say when they are hoping to be picked by Schmidt.

I haven't heard what POD was told to work on. Or what Murphy did to make the bench.

Nothing, he doesn't like O'Donnell because he's from Munster.

SecretFly wrote:

All reasonable observations Nachos.  I was concerned in the first few games myself about where exactly we were going and what Schmidt was attempting.  And yep, the Sexton thing was bizarre...but then even in the after-chat here with English guys and Irish people, many of them didn't recognise the fact that Sexton seemed well out of things.  So for whatever reason, some of us seemed to have clearly seen that Sexton looked unable to continue and many just thought he made a number of bad decisions.  Weird game.

But on the D'arcy thing.  Can't agree with that at all.  D'arcy might be well off his own earlier standards but the argument really can't be had that there are alternatives that can hack International better, given that he's the one that played through the winning 6N itself and he's the one who ended up a decisive ingredient in the Leinster performance that gave them the Pro12 at the weekend.  Perhaps D'arcy was shoring up BOD rather than being someone that should have stepped aside to leave BOD on the field?
If BOD was asked who he felt would drag him through one more 6N, I think we all know D'arcy would be the man he would have mentioned.

D'arcy ain't finished yet folks.... and by the way he delighted in the Madigan/Kirchner axis, new fire might be breathed into the old wreck if given a new 13 to play with.

My concern is that D'Arcy is not getting any younger and the RWC is around the corner. I cant imagine that D'Arcy can live at this pace for another year. It really is time to cut him loose.

As for the Pro12, D'Arcy dropped the ball 3 times in contact in the opening 20mins to 2 times by the whole Glasgow team in the same time. His handling has not been good for many years now.

Connacht's Craig clarke has also retired.

3 times ball dropped. It keeps coming up.   

3 specific times he did other things that killed Glasgow... I mean killed them. Mistakes happen... name me a rival that hasn't made one, two or three this season?

D'arcy looked good. D'arcy looked happy. D'arcy liked having the electric charge of Madigan, Gopperth and Kirchner around him. I'm saying maybe, just maybe, he has been curtailed by BOD's lack of pace and now he'll be more free to empty the sprint tank into his own final retirement, whatever near enough year that will now happen in.

Fly, I watched the game and have been watching for many years now. Are you trying to say that D'Arcy's handling skills are ok?

For several years now he has been loosing the ball in contact more than any other centre. He was once very solid in contact but he has really gone down hill in handling. I cant believe you have not noticed this?

My concern is his age. He is not getting any younger and at his age is certain to be prone to get more injuries and by not preparing for this eventuality, JS is running the risk of leaving a whole in the midfield.

I see the things I want to see.... overall package, Nachos.  

Bowe has terrible handling skills, I mean dreadful handling skills (I seem to be only one of the very few who sees it though) but does that tell me he's off colour for a return to Ireland duty?  Hmmm....nope - because he brings other stuff that either negates the fumbling he always gets up to when passed a quick ball or at least balances the ropey side of his game with the impact he can bring when hitting his afterburners.

Same with D'arcy.  I see what I see as an overall package.  Nope, he won't be around for much longer.  Yes, we need to have a look at alternatives.  No he won't unduly embarrass me if Schmidt keeps choosing him at 12 for a while yet in big games.  And if Schmidt IS continuing to choose him as 12 in big games then that'll be good enough for me in coming to the conclusion that he too overlooks the 'handling skills' to get to the bits of D'arcy he wants.

Fair enough Fly.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike D'Arcy. I think he is a fine player but his handling skills as a centre in the last few seasons have been poor and that coupled with his age I am concerned as to why Schmidt isn't trying other options especially in the lead up to a RWC.

Remember Kidney getting lambasted for doing the same with ROG and Sexton? Everyone complained that ROG was being held on too long and affecting the development of Sexton as an International 10.

Not that there is a better option for D'Arcy right now but Schmidt really should be looking to try some options.

Nachos Jones wrote:

Not that there is a better option for D'Arcy right now but Schmidt really should be looking to try some options.

Agree fully with that. We have to see what he have.

And if they do prove a more potent weapon (defence as well as attack, as well as breakdown - all rounders) than D'arcy then I'd be only too delighted to see them take the strain from there on in. Ireland destroying opposition is what I want to see. Not just beating sides but being ruthless if they can be. Chasing points and tries belligerently to the final whistle. We get a squad of young players (centres included) who can play that game, then I'll be right behind them. It's the results I crave and the fashion of play we use to get them.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Thats the strangest thing of all- there's such a massive discontent between that and the reality of the kind of rugby the teams he has coached play. His teams have always played rugby that is very easy on the eye.

You think Ireland were easy on the eye in the six nations?  

I'd say Ireland were easy on the eyes against New Zealand,Italy and France.He's only been in charge for 8 games and has a lot of work to do considering the mess he had to sort out.Why do you ignore the 3years of fantastic attacking play with Leinster,it took him a number of games to get them playing the way he wanted so it stands to reason that it will also take time to get Ireland playing how he wants.After all he has less time to get his ideas across.

I'm struggling to think of the last time D'Arcy done something to change a game. A moment of magic etc. He is fairly limited these days and doesn't offer much in attack. Defensively he is sound but struggled badly in the French match.

SecretFly wrote:Bowe has terrible handling skills, I mean dreadful handling skills (I seem to be only one of the very few who sees it though)

Are you serious fly? He's one of he best ball handling wings in the game :- http://www.thescore.ie/marshall-brilliant-try-ulster-connacht-1411317-Apr2014/

No BOD , no Darcy, no Henshaw, Earls or Nacewa...centre partnership of Marshall and Cave...could be a more interesting series than originally expected.

Especially if Zesus gets his game (and is reminded that there's no Lions tour to save himself for this summer).

Engine#4 wrote:Especially if Zesus gets his game (and is reminded that there's no Lions tour to save himself for this summer).

I wonder what the rest of them (bar POM) were saving themselves for then last summer?

Sin é wrote:

Engine#4 wrote:Especially if Zesus gets his game (and is reminded that there's no Lions tour to save himself for this summer).

I wonder what the rest of them (bar POM) were saving themselves for then last summer?

so anyway , sit down and explain to us again why you hate schmidt so much. i feel we didnt get an answer yesterday.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Bowe has terrible handling skills, I mean dreadful handling skills (I seem to be only one of the very few who sees it though)

Are you serious fly? He's one of he best ball handling wings in the game :- http://www.thescore.ie/marshall-brilliant-try-ulster-connacht-1411317-Apr2014/  

I think what Fly means is that since he's came back for Ulster this season he's knocked the ball on a fair bit. I don't think thats down to a lack of skill, just evidence of his rustiness.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Bowe has terrible handling skills, I mean dreadful handling skills (I seem to be only one of the very few who sees it though)

Are you serious fly? He's one of he best ball handling wings in the game :- http://www.thescore.ie/marshall-brilliant-try-ulster-connacht-1411317-Apr2014/  

Bowe has always been a fingertip "will he? won't he? Oh God, please make him hold onto it?" kinda player for as long as I can remember.  I know that's obviously not seen by others!!!... but I see what I see.  Rugby is like that.  Some things some of us see, somethings others can't see.  So yep, I was serious about the handling issues.......... that I see.

I think Bowes biggest strength is his timing and ability to hit gaps - this is high risk so inevitably you will see the odd fumble if the pass is not timed to perfection. As Notch said if the match sharpness isn't 100%. Often Bowe takes and gives in one movement and his pop pass is one of the best in the game.

He's also superb under the high ball.

D'arcy by contrast frequently loses the ball in contact which is a very basic skill.

That said I think D'arcy has been a good player recently and has taken a bit of unfair stick - what he does well, rucking, work rate he does really well but what stands out is the things he doesn't - loses ground in contact, poor handling etc.

I think he's a shoe in at 12 or 13 for the RWC but can see the arguments as to why others offer more - Marshall, Cave, Madigan...

Bowe is a good'un!  Don't mistake an observation for an out and out criticism.  But he ain't perfect is all I'm saying.  None of them are.  They're hired for the things they can do, not dropped for the things they might be less good at.  And Schmidt continued, to this point - pre Argentina - to hire D'arcy.  Schmidt had his reasons. I agree with them.... to this point.  Let's see the future try their thing in Argentina.

No Bowe isn't perfect, like D'arcy he's a proven top class player creeping past his peak - just D'arcy is way further down the slope.

D'arcy himself said last season that very soon Marshall will find another gear he can't live with, or someone else will. The question is will this happen before or after the RWC.

In terms of Bowe well he's on the cusp isn't he - 30 is no spring chicken in the back 3. His mind is still the sharpest of the backs but can his body keep up? This is a big season for him.

I think Joe has got selection spot on so far... more or less...

Retallick rates The Arse See highly though. He can't remember Bowsie's first name though.

Two words guys.....


....Stuart Olding


The Pete prediction is that he starts the early season games for Ulster at 12 as Marshall is given a bit more preseason time. He plays well and looks a game winner. Marshall and Cave come back in drips and drabs, so Olding interchanges sometimes playing 12 with Cave and sometimes playing 13 with Marshall.

We conclude that Olding needs to be in the Ulster team and steers them through some pretty tasty Heineken Cup pool games. Gets called in by Joseph to train with Ireland, starts against Georgia at 12 with Sexton inside him and Henshaw (who is also being a freak) outside him. He owns it.

Then the team for Australia in Novemeber is announced (it will be the same team that is announced for our first game in the next 6Nations.

Healy-Best-Moore
POC-Toner
SOB-Heaslip-Henry
Murray-Sexton
Olding-Henshaw
Zebo-Kearney-Trimble

Strauss-McGrath-Ross-Henderson-POM-Marmion-Jackson-Payne

We narrowly lose to Australia but Olding and Henshaw click....massively.

In your dreams Pete, if you think SOB is going to be moved to 6 and POM dropped to the bench to accommodate Henry at 7.

Crickey, Schmidt was playing POM on one leg * in the Six Nations (resting him for the Italian game so that he could hang in their for the rest).

Henshaw or Olding will be no where near the Ireland mid-field come November. Maybe after the world cup.

edit: * actually one shoulder

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Two words guys.....


....Stuart Olding


The Pete prediction is that he starts the early season games for Ulster at 12 as Marshall is given a bit more preseason time. He plays well and looks a game winner. Marshall and Cave come back in drips and drabs, so Olding interchanges sometimes playing 12 with Cave and sometimes playing 13 with Marshall.

We conclude that Olding needs to be in the Ulster team and steers them through some pretty tasty Heineken Cup pool games. Gets called in by Joseph to train with Ireland, starts against Georgia at 12 with Sexton inside him and Henshaw (who is also being a freak) outside him. He owns it.

Then the team for Australia in Novemeber is announced (it will be the same team that is announced for our first game in the next 6Nations.

Healy-Best-Moore
POC-Toner
SOB-Heaslip-Henry
Murray-Sexton
Olding-Henshaw
Zebo-Kearney-Trimble

Strauss-McGrath-Ross-Henderson-POM-Marmion-Jackson-Payne

We narrowly lose to Australia but Olding and Henshaw click....massively.

sounds amazing. Alot of fate being put in olding though, especially for me he is still unproven at club leave, i know he had some great games 2012-13 but still has a lot to prove to firstly start with ulster!

Sin é wrote:In your dreams Pete, if you think SOB is going to be moved to 6 and POM dropped to the bench to accommodate Henry at 7.

Crickey, Schmidt was playing POM on one leg * in the Six Nations (resting him for the Italian game so that he could hang in their for the rest).

Henshaw or Olding will be no where near the Ireland mid-field come November. Maybe after the world cup.

edit: * actually one shoulder

crap, i have inadvertently agreed with Sin  

Seems to me Olding will be getting his World Cup Winner's Medal before he starts pre-season training with Ulster!

Never has so much been written about a player who has played so little.

Seriously though - yep, he's a contender for a berth somewhere if he comes back and recreates the form he showed.  He's a slick character and he'll have ample opportunity to impress, I'm sure.  But just a note of caution.  Zebo STILL hasn't played under Joe - and we all know what planet he's been placed on by his fans - "Move over Clark, Krypton is Mine!"

So I guess, grim and boring ruck hitting potential will be a big factor in whether Olding gets a look in or not.  Start practicisng on your grandma, Stuart.  Take her down!

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Two words guys.....


....Stuart Olding


The Pete prediction is that he starts the early season games for Ulster at 12 as Marshall is given a bit more preseason time. He plays well and looks a game winner. Marshall and Cave come back in drips and drabs, so Olding interchanges sometimes playing 12 with Cave and sometimes playing 13 with Marshall.

We conclude that Olding needs to be in the Ulster team and steers them through some pretty tasty Heineken Cup pool games. Gets called in by Joseph to train with Ireland, starts against Georgia at 12 with Sexton inside him and Henshaw (who is also being a freak) outside him. He owns it.

Then the team for Australia in Novemeber is announced (it will be the same team that is announced for our first game in the next 6Nations.

Healy-Best-Moore
POC-Toner
SOB-Heaslip-Henry
Murray-Sexton
Olding-Henshaw
Zebo-Kearney-Trimble

Strauss-McGrath-Ross-Henderson-POM-Marmion-Jackson-Payne

We narrowly lose to Australia but Olding and Henshaw click....massively.

sounds amazing. Alot of fate being put in olding though, especially for me he is still unproven at club leave, i know he had some great games 2012-13 but still has a lot to prove to firstly start with ulster!

It's happening lad.

In all seriousness not sure how much we are actually going to get out of this tour if I am honest without Moore and Henshaw. They were the two lads I felt needed the most time and now neither are included. I suppose:

1) Henderson getting some real time at lock (will start this week)
2) Marmion getting some gametime (not sure how much though realistically)
3) 2 centres who aren't Darce/BOD get some gametime
4) Healy's backup to get some serious running.

That's all I'm expecting if I am honest. They are the main things I think we can take from this tour.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

crap, i have inadvertently agreed with Sin  

Happens to the best of us, Spaces. Take two Pandadol and you should be okay by tomorrow.

yeah i agree with you there Pete. the tour is a bit of a dud.

the only thing i will say for it, it will give Schmidt more time on the training park with players and hopefully see more continuity in the squad in terms of the style of play he wants to play.

would love to see the players you mentioned get a full game.

Well I maintain it is far from a foregone conclusion that POM, Heaslip, SOB will be our backrow in the autumn.

They may be the best three players but the backrow looked better with Henry in it and Schmidt is a big Henry fan.
Don't be surprised if SOB is used as an impact sub

As for Olding it depends on who holds the 12 shirt at Ulster - whoever it is Olding, Marshall or Cave has every chance as they will be the only viable alternative to D'Arcy.
As to the 13 shirt - if Cave plays well in Argentina he could be hard to shift, if he doesn't it will be Henshaw and Payne in contention.

Anyone know if the Leinster lads are likely to be rested for the first test?

Geoff, I can't see SOB not starting. The best performance of that team (against the ABs) had a backrow of POM, SOB & Heaslip (with Kevin McLaughlin on the bench).

I also doubt that the IRFU made SOB the highest paid player in Ireland so that he can be used as an impact sub!

I'll also be surprised if Cave becomes a starter at 13. He just doesn't have the gas/acceleration for it.

Sin é - ok POM on the bench instead   

Seriously AB was an excellent one of performace by the entire team but we had our most efficinet backrow in the 6N since Wallace retired.
I don't think this is a coincidence - more importantly I dont think Schmidt thinks it is either.

I repeast the best players dont, necessarily, make the best combinations - Schmidt knows that.

Dave Kearney is, by my reckoning, the 8th best winger in Ireland, but for Schmidt he fulfilled a role that justified selection.

Cave is quicker than many think but even more importantly he is the man in the frame and if he delivers in Argentina he will be difficult to dislodge.
Reality is he is the starter for Argentina.
If he plays well do you really want to go into the Australia/South Africa game (whichever is first) with an untried Henshaw or an untried Payne?