2006 Friendly Part 2: England vs Uruguay

First topic message reminder :

England unchanged, Uruguay make 5 changes with Suarez in.

2012 they were in disarray following the Capello debacle - at least you got out of the group!

Realistically an average Italian side won easily, a side who had lost their starting midfielder 2 weeks before the tournament, keeper and captain the day before the game, hadn't won since qualifying and had changed formation.

The less said about that Uruguay side the better, some great players but beaten easily by Costa Rica - who whilst aren't terrible lack quality players.

I'd take this over both 2012 and 2010.

You'd take this-

Woeful qualifying campaign, unlike under Capello, couldn't beat Ukraine, struggled immensely against Montengro/Poland.

SWEDEN - EMBARRASSING DEFEAT
GERMANY B - DEFEAT
CHILE - DEFEAT
ECUADOR - DRAW
HONDURAS - WOEFUL DRAW
ITALY - DEFEAT
URUGUAY - DEFEAT

Basically out of the WC at group stage. You would take this & are happy with our situation under Roy & the direction he is taking us? Not only are we shameful with the ball, now we are shocking without the ball, if anything we've gone backwards, if you look at the results.

We lost to Ukraine under Capello, John, didn't we? And we got hammered 4-1 to Germany. We also couldn't beat Algeria.

I'll be honest, I couldn't give a toss about results in a friendly. Performance is key.

Agreed. We may of lost to Sweden in a meaningless friendly, but we beat them in Kiev when it mattered.

so we're all happy for Roy to continue to 2016 then? can't quite believe it. we will agree to disagree, just think under roy, we will go nowhere.

John wrote:so we're all happy for Roy to continue to 2016 then? can't quite believe it. we will agree to disagree, just think under roy, we will go nowhere.

I'm not happy.

Watch Italy-England at Euro 2012.
Watch Italy-England at the 2014 World Cup.

Observe the difference. See how much better England are.

That's where we've gone.

Duty281 wrote:Watch Italy-England at Euro 2012.
Watch Italy-England at the 2014 World Cup.

Observe the difference. See how much better England are.

That's where we've gone.

But we went backwards again against Uruguay. Our players cannot defend as a unit, cross a Football, or finish.

I give managers 2 tournaments tbh. I don't count Euro 2012 on Roy because he inherited Capellos team last minute. England have gone in the right direction since then, even if results here don't reflect it.

At the end of the day, inexperience leads to inconsistency generally. Its a work in progress, I give Roy 2 more years to continue. If in 2 years we're in the same position then he has to go.

GSC wrote:I give managers 2 tournaments tbh. I don't count Euro 2012 on Roy because he inherited Capellos team last minute. England have gone in the right direction since then, even if results here don't reflect it.

  

Speaking a lot of sense today GSC, you feeling alright?!

It happens once a year, last year I predicted Norwich to go down  

Duty281 wrote:Watch Italy-England at Euro 2012.
Watch Italy-England at the 2014 World Cup.

Observe the difference. See how much better England are.

That's where we've gone.

  

As for GSC's comment, I'll give him two more years, not happy about it, but we'll see what happens. I expect no real improvement. Walcott will come back into the side & we will just be a team of runners with Walcott, Ox & Sterling. Be no improvement on the technical side, ball retention won't improve, it will all be about attacking at full speed & giving the ball away mostly. Barkley introduced too & giving the ball away regularly. I expect France to massively accelerate ahead of us, in this 'new generation race' shall we call it under DD.

Ball retention? We had 62% possession yesterday, John.

against the most woeful central midfield opposition i've seen. uruguay play that way, sit & then counter with cavani & suarez. we were always going to have more possession. problem is under hodgson, we are now woeful WITH the ball, aswell as being woeful WITHOUT the ball. That's how far backwards we've gone.

Pass % was 91% vs Italy, 2nd highest of that round

Who would you suggest replaces him, John?

John wrote:against the most woeful central midfield opposition i've seen. uruguay play that way, sit & then counter with cavani & suarez. we were always going to have more possession. problem is under hodgson, we are now woeful WITH the ball, aswell as being woeful WITHOUT the ball. That's how far backwards we've gone.

And Italy were always going to have more possession than us but it hasn't stopped some people wittering on about how Pirlo completed over 100 passes and Gerrard only completed 67 yet didn't he have the ball anywhere near as long so WHAT DO YOU EXPECT????

boo hoo, you can throw all the stats you want, we didn't do anything with it that mattered.

There's plenty of young, modern coaches out there, who would be perfect in developing a young, exciting side like England. Hodgson & this type of squad is not a 'hand in glove' fit. They are opposites, Roy is inherently defensive & conservative & he is clueless as to getting the best out of attacking players.

How about Laudrup? Young, likes to play exciting football & knows the International game & how to play on that stage. Knows the England players well & understands the pressure of the job/media etc.

Laudrup who just got sacked because he wasn't strong enough to sort out the dressing room? Great choice

okay, be happy with hogdson then for gods sake. just offering options.

there were alot of issues for laudrup at swansea, wasnt backed financially either. not his fault players started fighting behind his back. he won the league cup & got into europa league, did a great job. he then left because they disagreed about the siginig of n'gog & emnes, who he didnt want.

Bony wasn't exactly cheap for a club 1 season removed from lower league football.

Klinnsmann?

Done wonders with the USA squad.

Nah, you're alright.

John wrote:okay, be happy with hogdson then for gods sake. just offering options.

there were alot of issues for laudrup at swansea, wasnt backed financially either. not his fault players started fighting behind his back. he won the league cup & got into europa league, did a great job. he then left because they disagreed about the siginig of n'gog & emnes, who he didnt want.

Not backed financially??? Spent near 15m on Bony!!!

I honestly don't think there are better candidates out there and I don't think Roy is doing a bad job

Bony was £12m, not £15m & that's for a striker position, pretty standard pricing. I was talking about in the January window, where they needed to bring in players & Laudrup was refused. They then bought in players he didn't want.

Saying, I don't think there are better candidates is just being lazy. There are plenty of possibilities. You just hear people saying 'Arry' & then you go 'no thanks, we'll keep Roy'. How you can think Roy is doing 'not a bad job' is beyond me.

Didnt we record our highest ever World Cup pass accuracy?

John, you wanted him out before and clearly have a problem with him. You've watched us lose games and gone from a "he wont play youth and is too defensive" to "results are all that matters"

I 100% prefer this to Capello. Capello was in this for himself and didnt care about long term. He wasnt a bad manager either btw, but he would have taken 0-0, 0-0, 1-0 in this group. And we'd have gone out in the second round or quarters as per usual and people would have bemoaned our lack of attacking ambition.

We played with verve, more care for the ball, better pace than I have seen for over 10 years. Work in progress, potential in bundles. I actually dont think England have been building towards anything in the years before Hodgson, ego or ineptitude (Schteve) stopped us. Hodgson cares about English football's future more than any manager since Hoddle.

If we are poor at the Euros then he goes. I believe he was given a task to do that was about progression of the team not about the World Cup 2014 result. The new breed he is bringing through would do well under an astute, experienced coach and would also probably benefit from familiarity.

Honestly, I find this baffling. England fans moan about our poor "results only" methods and then moan when we try to evolve and don't get results straight away.

And I certainly feel for Roy in that its the worst defence we have had in my lifetime.

Okay, we'll give Roy another two years & see what happens. Easy qualification system won't help us out really in understanding where we are & then when we need to step up in France, I expect the same failings.

Roy didn't help himself not bringing Terry back & not picking Cole, therefore I can't have any sympathy for Roy having to deal with a bad defence.

a. who says Terry would even come back.
b. Terry was aided by a negative Chelsea setup where the midfield sat deep, allowing him to sit deeper where his lack of pace wouldn't be exposed.
c. Cole played like 10 games all season and was kept out of the side by a converted RB.

a. A manager showing willingness to have Terry back in the mix, could of got him back for a WC the size of this one in Brazil. Hodgson though the defence was up-to-scratch, how bad a judgement was that.
b. Terry is the best & most experienced CB we have. Lack of pace but Jagielka looked a shambles at times.
c. Cole is the best LB we have, Baines never proven on this level & we knew he'd be found out, just like when Sanchez punished him at Wembley. Cole was immense in the Liverpool/At. Madrid away games. Picking Shaw over Cole was horrible.

No sympathy for Roy at all with the defence argument.

Terry also stated that he would onlt join the England team if certain senior figures in the FA were removed from office. He knew it would never happen so said "No" to his country. Who the hell needs a jumped up c**t like that in the team making utterly outlandish demands? Leadership qualities? F**k Off!!!!

Cole was immense again in a negative side where he didnt have to attack. If England were going to repeat 2012, then I'd agree to pick them, but in a side prepared to play openly, I have little doubt both would be exposed as declining players.

we hardly played openly. baines/johnson hardly contributed anything in the italian game, only getting caught out. Baines was ineffective this WC & apart from one run by Johnson, in setting Rooney up, we barely saw him. Hardly the expansive, open play Hodgson was talking about. We never saw over-laps at all, Cole would of been fine defensively & would of contributed equal amounts to what Baines did offensively. Hogdson said we would go all out attack & punish their weak defence, yet we only ever had one man in the box yesterday. Yeah, we dominate possession/stats but we didn't do anything with it. Disappointing & poor for a team supposedly set up for attacking play.

Johnson bombed on plenty in both games.

GSC wrote:Johnson bombed on plenty in both games.

I'm a Liverpool fan and even I think Johnson has been pretty poor the WC campaign. I'd even stick John Flanagan in at RB just to see how he fares (also a possibility that he replaces Johnson at LFC if contract talks don't go as planned). Chances are we're on our way out the door so why not give the other a taste of what it's like to play in the WC? Thought Shaw got dragged out of position far too often in the matches he played before Brazil and, personally, I'm not sold on him but he can't be any worse than Baines can he?