Ireland (Summer Tour Part 2 and General Discussion)

First topic message reminder :

Continuing on from;

https://www.606v2.com/t53276p1000-ireland-s-summer-tour

You forgot not getting caught by Second Rows....always an important part of being a winger.

D Kearney took care of that.
You want to give all plaudits to Zebo??? You want to give him credit for stuff he wasn't even involved in?
I didn't pick you for being a Cult guy, ME. Yeah, an admirer of Zebo but not a Cult guy

ME-109 wrote:The job Joe wants our wingers to do......not score tries it appears...


Anyhow regardless of whether Savea declares for Ireland or whatever we wont have any midfield to get the ball to our wings or back three by the time of the world cup.

You don't think some combination of Darcy, Madigan, Cave, Marshall, Payne, Earls, Fitz, Henshaw, Griffin, McFadden could form a midfield? To be honest any combination of them will form a midfield good enough to get the ball to the wings during attack. The problem with the midfield will be how do they cope defending.

Zebo will be just fine on the wing and will do everything asked of him.
Is he the best winger in the world ever? No. Is he Ireland's best wing option? You could argue Trimble and Bowe are ahead of him or you could argue he is the best option, but it isn't clear cut either way.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

ME-109 wrote:The job Joe wants our wingers to do......not score tries it appears...


Anyhow regardless of whether Savea declares for Ireland or whatever we wont have any midfield to get the ball to our wings or back three by the time of the world cup.

You don't think some combination of Darcy, Madigan, Cave, Marshall, Payne, Earls, Fitz, Henshaw, Griffin, McFadden could form a midfield?  To be honest any combination of them will form a midfield good enough to get the ball to the wings during attack.  The problem with the midfield will be how do they cope defending.

Zebo will be just fine on the wing and will do everything asked of him.
Is he the best winger in the world ever? No.  Is he Ireland's best wing option? You could argue Trimble and Bowe are ahead of him or you could argue he is the best option, but it isn't clear cut either way.

In the interests of me being an all-rounder I'd have to agree with DOD on the nature of things here.  Yes, we've a bunch (some might say too many of them!!) of options that might provide a stable enough central axis of power in the next few years.  But up until now, and straight into the Aututmn tests, we really don't know what will happen there or who will eventually get the honours of being a settled twosome there.  It's too early to say we have anything close to the potency we might/will need there into the next few years.  It is a genuine Iffy area that needs more punch and clarity than it's been showing to date.

Yeah but the criteria for looking at Zebo should include all factors.....

As for Cults I am more a follower of the church of reasoning...the creed is as follows...

St Declan - not as bad as all that and unlucky with injuries.
St Eddie - better than made out to be.
St Joe - not as good as made out to be.
Zeboism - a heretical cult made up of people who think he is a good winger and is worth a place in the Irish team.
Daveordinariness - the cult of average
POMitis -Just make him captain.
BODness - 10 foot mythical creature of whose stories of greatness will forever overshadow the Irish centre.

The Cult of Luck we'll call it then.

Some followers do,
some followers don't,
some followers blame a lack of luck
and some followers don't

Madgitians - those that this magical soul is the future of both 10 and 12 for Ireland at the same time.
Henshawnians - the cult that screams for better representation from the 'other' province
Church - how holy does someone think they are that they take up this name?
St Axel - Untouchable

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

If Joe had a schoolyard pick of one from Savea, Nonu or Read to come play for Ireland - it wouldn't be Savea.

Zebodee is a good option among plenty of good options, but the overriding criterion should be how the wing selection impacts the weakest link in the side, namely the midfield.

Coaches don't necessarily pick their fifteen most talented individuals, but rather try to pick the XV that will be the best team. The team has to be greater than the sum of the parts so rather than start with the selection of the clear first names on the sheet, Joe is no doubt forced to start with the least effective names that he has to pick and then work out how he can make the team effective through synergy of other players.

This strategy worked in the 6N, with a new team that few gave any chance of victory. Now with BOD gone JS has to focus on the midfield where the team is weak. The question isn't whether Zebo is being hard done by or otherwise as an individual but what is the most effective 3/4 line that Ireland should be fielding. The discussion should be on 11,12,13 and 14 collectively not one player.

Anyway, St Joe was hit by the fact that he was High Priest of the BODness Cult himself but the BOD almighty went commercial instead and sold His Soul to chat radio.  
BOD sold out and Joe joined the St Decco cult to lick his unlucky wounds.

Christ the night, we need some more rugby played.

SecretFly wrote:The Cult of Luck we'll call it then.  

Some followers do,
some followers don't,
some followers blame a lack of luck
and some followers don't

Showing your age there.

Don Alfonso wrote:Christ the night, we need some more rugby played.

SecretFly wrote:The Cult of Luck we'll call it then.  

Some followers do,
some followers don't,
some followers blame a lack of luck
and some followers don't

Showing your age there.

So I existed in the Jimmy Savile Pre BEEB 606 era???  So what?!  No big deal!  Doesn't give me the right to shoot my mouth off about rugby opinions and things..................................... hmmmm, or does it?  

Maybe I've been too meek in here.  Maybe I need to develop a Cult of my own.  Maybe some tax reductive Fly Cultism gig might work for me too, like it's doing for all them other Cult charities where most charity money goes to the exalted Leaders who cry about the kids and starvation and Lions being endangered by too many buzzards and things.  The Fly Charity Cult for Homeless Lions has a nice ring to it.

Yeah. If you like.

The Great Aukster wrote:A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

If Joe had a schoolyard pick of one from Savea, Nonu or Read to come play for Ireland - it wouldn't be Savea.

Zebodee is a good option among plenty of good options, but the overriding criterion should be how the wing selection impacts the weakest link in the side, namely the midfield.

Coaches don't necessarily pick their fifteen most talented individuals, but rather try to pick the XV that will be the best team. The team has to be greater than the sum of the parts so rather than start with the selection of the clear first names on the sheet, Joe is no doubt forced to start with the least effective names that he has to pick and then work out how he can make the team effective through synergy of other players.

This strategy worked in the 6N, with a new team that few gave any chance of victory. Now with BOD gone JS has to focus on the midfield where the team is weak. The question isn't whether Zebo is being hard done by or otherwise as an individual but what is the most effective 3/4 line that Ireland should be fielding. The discussion should be on 11,12,13 and 14 collectively not one player.

Well, Zebo has played on the wing with BOD, Earls & Cave in the centre. He has done very well with all of them. Zebo's best try scoring season was with Earls in the centre - lightning fast. His left boot is very useful.

Schmidt doesn't appear to like individual type players (except BOD) who was untouchable anyway.

[quote="asoreleftshoulder"]

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:Playing the race card is an idiomatic phrase that refers to exploitation of either racist or anti-racist attitudes by accusing others of racism.

I didn't accuse anyone of being a racist though.

You did ask what playing the race card meant

I wanted to find out how people defined racism.

Not appreciating that the laid back nature caribbean attitude to life and the need to conform to the anglo saxon/celtic attitude to life is a form of racism (i.e., our way is better than your way). We need to imbrace diversity.

Most people would say that a laid back attitude to life is an Irish trait,if you want to find a an example of an Irish rugby player who gets stick for that attitude you can look to one of your favourite punch bags Jamie Heaslip.

Maybe the people who can't appreciate the laid back nature Irish attitude to life and the need to conform to the anglo saxon/celtic attitude to life is are practising a form of racism (i.e., our way is better than your way).

Here's an article I found with one quick search which backs up my point,it's old but I doubt our attitudes have changed that much since it was published.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/laidback-irish-the-best-at-enjoying-quality-time-26144458.html

I don't think Heaslip is laid back. He just loves himself (and hence my nickname of J'aime).  

Zebo was well appreciated and liked until Herr Schmidt came on the scene. Even Leinster & Ulster fans liked him.

Its Herr Schmidt's attitude that you are all adopting and defending  

Sin é wrote:

I don't think Heaslip is laid back. He just loves himself (and hence my nickname of J'aime).  

Zebo was well appreciated and liked until Herr Schmidt came on the scene. Even Leinster & Ulster fans liked him.

Its Herr Schmidt's attitude that you are all adopting and defending  

...........It's the laid back nature Caribbean attitude to life that everybody loved...........

but then someone said "Is it coz he is laid back and has a Caribbean attitude to life that yis don't like?"

That got our pan-sub-racist goat up and we said "Yeah, it's specifically the laid back Caribbeanism of his personality that annoys the hell out of us", just to annoy the guy who felt that's what annoyed us.

I just don't like Bob Marley kinda people.  They're too............... too hammocky and chilled.  I like highly strung asswholes more who like buzzing through red lights and drinking their favourite drug whilst injecting some Guinness.  It's just cultural Sin - don't be offended by it.  Traditional rebel-song singing fight-picking drunks is my thing.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:Playing the race card is an idiomatic phrase that refers to exploitation of either racist or anti-racist attitudes by accusing others of racism.

I didn't accuse anyone of being a racist though.

You did ask what playing the race card meant

I wanted to find out how people defined racism.

Not appreciating that the laid back nature caribbean attitude to life and the need to conform to the anglo saxon/celtic attitude to life is a form of racism (i.e., our way is better than your way). We need to imbrace diversity.

Most people would say that a laid back attitude to life is an Irish trait,if you want to find a an example of an Irish rugby player who gets stick for that attitude you can look to one of your favourite punch bags Jamie Heaslip.

Maybe the people who can't appreciate the laid back nature Irish attitude to life and the need to conform to the anglo saxon/celtic attitude to life is are practising a form of racism (i.e., our way is better than your way).

Here's an article I found with one quick search which backs up my point,it's old but I doubt our attitudes have changed that much since it was published.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/laidback-irish-the-best-at-enjoying-quality-time-26144458.html

I don't think Heaslip is laid back. He just loves himself (and hence my nickname of J'aime).  

Zebo was well appreciated and liked until Herr Schmidt came on the scene. Even Leinster & Ulster fans liked him.

Its Herr Schmidt's attitude that you are all adopting and defending  

We aren't adopting any attitude,when you jump up and down screaming because he didn't pick more Munster players we simply give our take on why he picked the squad he did.You need to understand that it's possible to be critical of a player yet still rate them,I like and rate Zebo highly but I can understand the reasons he wasn't picked in the 6N.

If the Munsterfans mob just listened to the press announcements they'd get all the explanations they need,you might not be happy and disagree with his reasons but the conspiracy theories are pretty ridiculous and make that entire forum look like a loony bin.

Finally you completely avoided the point that Zebo is just as likely to be laid back because of his Irish heritage so your racism angle is pretty ignorant.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:Playing the race card is an idiomatic phrase that refers to exploitation of either racist or anti-racist attitudes by accusing others of racism.

I didn't accuse anyone of being a racist though.

You did ask what playing the race card meant

I wanted to find out how people defined racism.

Not appreciating that the laid back nature caribbean attitude to life and the need to conform to the anglo saxon/celtic attitude to life is a form of racism (i.e., our way is better than your way). We need to imbrace diversity.

Most people would say that a laid back attitude to life is an Irish trait,if you want to find a an example of an Irish rugby player who gets stick for that attitude you can look to one of your favourite punch bags Jamie Heaslip.

Maybe the people who can't appreciate the laid back nature Irish attitude to life and the need to conform to the anglo saxon/celtic attitude to life is are practising a form of racism (i.e., our way is better than your way).

Here's an article I found with one quick search which backs up my point,it's old but I doubt our attitudes have changed that much since it was published.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/laidback-irish-the-best-at-enjoying-quality-time-26144458.html

I don't think Heaslip is laid back. He just loves himself (and hence my nickname of J'aime).  

Zebo was well appreciated and liked until Herr Schmidt came on the scene. Even Leinster & Ulster fans liked him.

Its Herr Schmidt's attitude that you are all adopting and defending  

We aren't adopting any attitude,when you jump up and down screaming because he didn't pick more Munster players we simply give our take on why he picked the squad he did.You need to understand that it's possible to be critical of a player yet still rate them,I like and rate Zebo highly but I can understand the reasons he wasn't picked in the 6N.

If the Munsterfans mob just listened to the press announcements they'd get all the explanations they need,you might not be happy and disagree with his reasons but the conspiracy theories are pretty ridiculous and make that entire forum look like a loony bin.

Finally you completely avoided the point that Zebo is just as likely to be laid back because of his Irish heritage so your racism angle is pretty ignorant.

We understand perfectly when a player isn't picked. Its the makey-up excuses given that we disagree with.

Sin é wrote:

We understand perfectly when a player isn't picked. Its the makey-up excuses given that we disagree with.

So you make up reasons of your own,you didn't display such a critical eye when Kidney adopted his "ah shure they both went well in training but Player A just got the pick this time" spiel.That rubbish explanation which he used ad nauseum was perfectly fine with the Munster flock.It's the blind hypocrisy I find funny.

Journo: "Joe, why no Zebo?"  Joe:  "He's unlucky in that for every player we don't pick there is another one that we do."

Journo: "but why no Zebo?"  Joe: "Because I don't want to mess around with a team that already works."

Journo: "but why no Zebo?"  Joe: "He has things to work on."

Journo: "but why no Zebo?"  Joe: "He talked back to me in a carpark."

Journo: "but why no Zebo?"  Joe: "He doesn't pull up his socks, mate."

Journo: "but why no Zebo?"  Joe: "Don't like him.  Reminds me of Carlos Spencer"

Journo: "Joe, why no Zebo?"  Joe: "Do you guys have any more questions for me about other things besides Zebo?

Journo: "Joe, why no Zebo?"  Joe: "To be honest with you, I find him a little too reggae, mate, if you know what I mean.  Sometimes his Caribbeanism gets in the way of Lights Out.  He keeps the guys awake, especially the non-drinking Leinster guys.  He tells too many jokes and is too toothy in the smile department.  Seriously needs to knuckle down and be more European about his personality"

If you keep asking the same question, the answers will keep getting more bizarre.


 
But Joe, seriously, why no Zebo?

Who says Zebo isn't well liked now? He's grand. I have no problem with him. The problem is, there are another four or five players just as good as him I also like.

Notch wrote:Who says Zebo isn't well liked now? He's grand. I have no problem with him. The problem is, there are another four or five players just as good as him I also like.

How can you like him,if you liked him you'd think he was the best player on the team and would be spitting blood at Schmidt.You're probably a racist.   

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Notch wrote:Who says Zebo isn't well liked now? He's grand. I have no problem with him. The problem is, there are another four or five players just as good as him I also like.

How can you like him,if you liked him you'd think he was the best player on the team and would be spitting blood at Schmidt.You're probably a racist.   

I bet you thought that comment was very clever and funny when you wrote it...   

Jeez, enough with the race thing already... silliest tangent of any thread in a long, long time. Just drop it.

Nachos Jones wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Notch wrote:Who says Zebo isn't well liked now? He's grand. I have no problem with him. The problem is, there are another four or five players just as good as him I also like.

How can you like him,if you liked him you'd think he was the best player on the team and would be spitting blood at Schmidt.You're probably a racist.   

I bet you thought that comment was very clever and funny when you wrote it...   

Nope it was a short appraisal of what Sin é's argument looks like,it definitely isn't clever and while funny,not intentionally so.

Anyways, getting on to the future. Who do you all see being the captain for the RWC next year.

For me there are only three candidates.

POM
Sexton
POC

I have a feeling that it will be Sexton myself but I would really like to see POM as captain, he has a very good history captaining sides,

If PoC stays fit he'll be captain,Heaslip is obviously next in line as he's vice captain.Rory Best would be 3rd in line for me.PoM is a good shout after that although he'd probably have to give up the Munster captaincy,there's enough extra work captaining one team.

I don't think Sexton would be asked to do it as he has enough on his plate as outhalf.Sean O'Brien would be an option too,he really seemed to step up publicly as a leader after the AI's but he'd be a bit down the list.

Don't see why we'd want to take it off O'Connell to be honest. If he's still playing well, he's a certainty.

I would just leave Sexton to focus on his own game, on his place kicking and all the rest of it- if O'Connell is say rested for one of the earlier games, any one of O'Mahony, Heaslip or Best is fit to stand in.

Nachos Jones wrote:Anyways, getting on to the future. Who do you all see being the captain for the RWC next year.

For me there are only three candidates.

POM
Sexton
POC

I have a feeling that it will be Sexton myself but I would really like to see POM as captain, he has a very good history captaining sides,

We might be close to agreeing on something here...Nachos.  I think it'll still be POC, if he's lucky to hold out in injury terms.  And of course he's more than capable and certainly should be it for what would most likely be his final time at a WC.

Sexton would be my prefered choice into the post WC era as a vocal genuine leader who has a perfectionist streak and has tactical experience now over a number of seasons in Big games, both Club and International.  Not everyone's idea of a perfect teammate, mind you, because of his aggressive mouthyness - but close to being mine for that very reason.

POM?  Wouldn't mind that either.  

I wouldn't mind any number of potentials as I think the role is overcooked anyway in the media.  As long as there are four or five genuine real leaders on the field, the Captain becomes merely a chairman of the board for those leaders in different areas of the field.

POC. He is the talismanic figure of this side in my opinion. He will be doing a lot of the talking anyway so why diminish that by giving anybody else the responsibility? Embrace POC. Let the leader lead and the deputies (POM, Sexton, Best etc.) deputise.

However, knowing Schmidt he will probably give it to the Z-Man and then not name him in the squad   

Notch wrote:Who says Zebo isn't well liked now? He's grand. I have no problem with him. The problem is, there are another four or five players just as good as him I also like.

Engine claimed that the senior players wanted him out of the squad!

So even if they are just as good as him should they not all get an equal chance. How did Schmidt decide to drop Zebo out of the squad for Dave Kearney?

Nachos Jones wrote:

I have a feeling that it will be Sexton myself but I would really like to see POM as captain, he has a very good history captaining sides,

Not a chance it will be Sexton as he is far too cranky apart from the fact that he lives and works in Paris and would not be available for all the off field stuff.

Seriously, not a chance he would be made captain.

Sin é wrote:

Seriously, not a chance he would be made captain.

So at least you trust Schmidt to do the right thing there, Sin.  You must be warming to him

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Who says Zebo isn't well liked now? He's grand. I have no problem with him. The problem is, there are another four or five players just as good as him I also like.

Engine claimed that the senior players wanted him out of the squad!

So even if they are just as good as him should they not all get an equal chance. How did Schmidt decide to drop Zebo out of the squad for Dave Kearney?

No I didn't.  I offered a theory as an explanation as to why he hadn't been included.  This was as a response to the assumption of some fans that Zebo didn't play in the 6 Nations because he is not seen as good enough. I also never said "the senior players".  I finished by stating that for all I know this is all conjecture, that it was just my understanding at the time.

"I had thought he had been left out this season because elements of the management and senior players weren't impressed by his behaviour last summer (which incidents in particular allegedly caused offence I don't know but there were several with potential that are public knowledge), nothing to do with his ability."

"This might all be pie in the sky but it was my understanding and I don't see much evidence for the other interpretations."

I later repeated the last statement to ensure that I was not being misunderstood.

"I feel I should point out (again) that I am aware that this is speculative, I don't have an inside man any more than you do. I just find it interesting that elements of fans from our southern province consistently tend towards conspiracy theories. Personally, with the options available, I thought Zebo merited a start in the last 6 Nations based on ability."

Not sure how you jumped to your interpretations to be honest but apologies if I wasn't clear in my meaning.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Seriously, not a chance he would be made captain.

So at least you trust Schmidt to do the right thing there, Sin.  You must be warming to him

I'd say Schmidt would love him to be captain. Just some stuff he knows he won't get away with. Whoever is captain would need to be on a central contract because the IRFU would want to control their image rights for one and sponsors like O2 would want easy access to them. Notice that Sexton doesn't appear in an ads this season for the IRFU's sponsors.

Engine, so its ok for you to 'speculate' about the senior players being not pleased with Zebo and his various activities last summer. You even mentioned BOD as being strict.

But if you come from Munster, you can't speculate on anything.

Yes Sin É, if you can do so then I believe I am well within my rights to present counter theories to the whole 'Herr Schmidt, the disciplinarian headmaster, hates skill, flair and freedom of expression on the rugby pitch as it is embodied by Munster' conspiracy theory.

Personally I think it far more likely that, for example, (WARNING. THE FOLLOWING IS JUST A THEORY) the powers that be saw a player attempt to embarrass a teammate in the middle of a Lions match by telling him 'time's up, kick it out', and decided that said player needed to learn that similar messing would not be acceptable on this team.

I suggest you need to lighten up. Watch everyone's reaction to his punishment. BOD certainly looks disapproving!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwElZItT67U

You would not have heard about it if the management didn't approvve.

Sin é wrote:I suggest you need to lighten up. Watch everyone's reaction to his punishment. BOD certainly looks disapproving!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwElZItT67U

You would not have heard about it if the management didn't approvve.

Is that the right clip to highlight whatever point you're making, which I'm not to clear about in the first place?

Just popped in to see people's views on Schmidt now that he's had a proper run of games with the squad...

Got to say this thread is probably the most amusing read out there. Takes my mind off the angst filled England threads currently doing the rounds.

So what are the expectations of the AI's for Ireland fans now? Are you play the T3 teams this autumn or a mix?

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Who says Zebo isn't well liked now? He's grand. I have no problem with him. The problem is, there are another four or five players just as good as him I also like.

Engine claimed that the senior players wanted him out of the squad!

So even if they are just as good as him should they not all get an equal chance. How did Schmidt decide to drop Zebo out of the squad for Dave Kearney?

How did he drop him? He wasn't involved in the Autumn due to injury right?

yappysnap wrote:Just popped in to see people's views on Schmidt now that he's had a proper run of games with the squad...

Got to say this thread is probably the most amusing read out there. Takes my mind off the angst filled England threads currently doing the rounds.

So what are the expectations of the AI's for Ireland fans now? Are you play the T3 teams this autumn or a mix?

You popped in ... and you understood enough of this extremely esoteric weird Irish stuff and weird allusions to be able to follow it, yappy???

Congratulations! That is an achievement. Even I can only understand about 3% of what's being said here!   

Assuming all fit, if you had to pick your best 15 and subs today what would it be?
For me.

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Henderson
5. O'Connell
6. POM
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Darcy
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15.Kearney
16. Cronin 17. McGrath 18. Moore 19. O'Brien 20. Toner 21. Reddan 22. Jackson 23. Madigan

Leaving O'Brien on the bench is difficult but I just really liked the way those three played together in the 6 nations.

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Toner
5. O'Connell
6. O'Brien
7. POM
8. Henry
9. Redden
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Darcy
13. Earls
14. Trimble
15.Kearney

Cronin, McGrath, Moore, Heaslip, Henderson, Murray, Jackson, Madigan to come on when required to push on at genuine bench impact blistering pace and aggression to seal the deal. Heaslip for one will be like a raging bull in a Waterford Crystal warehouse.  
It's perfect   ; provided ruck hitting duties are taken seriously

[quote="SecretFly"]

Sin é wrote:

I don't think Heaslip is laid back. He just loves himself (and hence my nickname of J'aime).  

That kinda comes accross more as if you have a crush on him.

Healy
Best
Ross
Hendo
POC
SOB
Henry
POM
Murray
Sexton
Zebo
Olding
Fitz
Bowe
Payne

McGrath,Cronin,Moore (Furlong pretty soon),Ryan,Heaslip,Reddan,Madigan,Earls

It seems the Zebo debate has quietened down a little so just to add a little oxygen to the flames.
I was watching the 2nd Argentina test with my sister in law's Hungarian boyfriend (who I'm trying to get interested in the rugby as an excuse to watch whenever he's over).
He tuned into the game just as Zebo scored and his first question was 'Is this the professional team?' When I confirmed it was he then said 'but that guy is fat' in reference to Zebo. Maybe a little harsh but I've often wondered does Zebo spend much time in the gym. He's a big enough guy but he doesn't look like he's carrying weight in the right places and could do with a lot more upper body conditioning to really match up physically with the top professional wingers. I wonder is there something in this that irks Schmidt in terms his commitment to his physical conditioning and could this be holding back his progression?
Apologies if this has been noted already, I haven't been able to go through all the previous posts.

I don't think that's a completely unfair comment, in comparison to someone like Earls who looks very streamlined you couldn't really tell Zebo was a professional athlete if he wasn't in his kit.

But I doubt it's an issue with Schmidt or anyone because there is absolutely nothing wrong in terms of his performance. As we know he has exceptional pace, impressive strength in contact and has a good workrate.

I suppose the only question is could he improve on what are already impressive physical attributes... perhaps but I'm sure he spends a fair amount of time in the gym , it is his job after all.

Here we go again!

Baz1974 wrote:It seems the Zebo debate has quietened down a little so just to add a little oxygen to the flames.
I was watching the 2nd Argentina test with my sister in law's Hungarian boyfriend (who I'm trying to get interested in the rugby as an excuse to watch whenever he's over).
He tuned into the game just as Zebo scored and his first question was 'Is this the professional team?' When I confirmed it was he then said 'but that guy is fat' in reference to Zebo. Maybe a little harsh but I've often wondered does Zebo spend much time in the gym. He's a big enough guy but he doesn't look like he's carrying weight in the right places and could do with a lot more upper body conditioning to really match up physically with the top professional wingers. I wonder is there something in this that irks Schmidt in terms his commitment to his physical conditioning and could this be holding back his progression?
Apologies if this has been noted already, I haven't been able to go through all the previous posts.

Great first post!   

Baz, what did your sister in law's Hungarian boyfriend think of Mike Ross?