Ulster 2014/2015, Part 3

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Continue to discuss Ulsters lack of back row options and season in general

Toulon: 15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 Drew Mitchell, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Nicolas Sanchez, 9 Sebastien Tillous-Borde; 1 Xavier Chiocci, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 4 Jocelino Suta, 5 Ali Williams, 6 Juan Smith, 7 Steffon Armitage, 8 Chris Masoe (c).

Replacements: 16 Jean-Charles Orioli, 17 Florian Fresia, 18 Carl Hayman, 19 Mamuka Gorgodze, 20 Rudi Wulf, 21 David Smith, 22 Eric Escande, 23 Romain Taofifenua.

6 Juan Smith, 7 Steffon Armitage, 8 Chris Masoe

6 Clive Ross 7 Mike McCormish 8 Roger Wilson

Tough call

The mismatch up-front is terrifying in general. Castrogiovanni or Bronson Ross? Steffon Armitage or Mike McComish? Juan Smith or Clive Ross? Ali Williams or Alan O'Connor? Chiocci or Andy Warwick?

I just hope that the players selected go out and represent themselves and the jersey with pride and distinction, and don't leave anything out there on the pitch regardless of what the scoreboard says. There really is nothing to lose.

Kingshu wrote:Among us Ulster supports it seams we have gotten an little polarised and are turning on certain players, those that think the Payne at 13 experiment is player/IRFU directed and should be ended, and those that don't think Cave is up to this level and put question marks beside him.

There are people running Cave down and there are people running Payne down (at 13) and others even running both down.

I suppose its what happens when we are not playing at the level expected, people sort of turn on players and there seams to be a bit of animosity directed at these two players, and I honestly think its not on, we should never turn on Ulster players - even McComish - I wouldn't be surprised if certain supporters booed these players the way they run them down and that I never want to see.

Myself I think both are good 13's and the competation is healthy, there isn't any point in running either down, our problem isn't 13, its the backrow. I honestly believe that if it was better then we wouldn't even be having this discussion, we would be all happy supporters.

Just in case you're referring to me Kingshu, I am not "running Cave down" - just quoting facts.

Neither has it anything to do with how Ulster are playing this season. If Cave had shown he was the obvious choice at 13 in the past few seasons, Anscombe wouldn't have got away with trying anyone else in the position. Coaches generally are judged by results and they will put the players in the positions that will generate success for them. The national and provincial coaches obviously don't rate Cave high enough to avoid trying someone else, and hence the need to sign Ludik - in case Payne worked out at 13, (or maybe Ludik worked out at 13). Either way that decision potentially stopped Ulster signing a backrow that they need and have needed for several seasons. Ulster surely aren't that stupid they haven't noticed their backrow inadequacies since David Pollock had to retire - yet Humphreys/Anscombe somehow feel they have to sign a NIQ back ahead of a backrow?

None of that is running Cave down - just commentating on the situation and the impact it has had and is having on the team.

I've asked before...

Did we never look for a backrower last year? I mean are we sure that a 15 was the plan from the word go as opposed to plan B after failing to sign a backrower.

I mean there were rumours at a point of some south african backrowers no?

Also, how much has this season harmed our attractiveness as a club to onlooking NIQs...

Ulster had to sign Stefan Tereblanche as "emergency cover" for Payne when he was out in his first season. That was because they thought they had no full backs despite having the IQ D'Arcy on the books. The following season they brought the IQ McIlwaine back in for D'Arcy and gave the IQ Andrew more time - neither impressed.
With Anscombe's determination to play Payne at 13 Ulster were yet again in a situation without a 15, so given that strategy it is logical why Humphreys needed to sign one and he had already dredged the IQ pool.

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster had to sign Stefan Tereblanche as "emergency cover" for Payne when he was out in his first season. That was because they thought they had no full backs despite having the IQ D'Arcy on the books. The following season they brought the IQ McIlwaine back in for D'Arcy and gave the IQ Andrew more time - neither impressed.
With Anscombe's determination to play Payne at 13 Ulster were yet again in a situation without a 15, so given that strategy it is logical why Humphreys needed to sign one and he had already dredged the IQ pool.

You are ignoring the fact that Gilroy and Olding can be used to reasonable affect at 15. Also, It's hardly Anscombe's determination. Humphries buying Ludik meant he probably agreed, and clearly Doak/Kiss also agree. Just the fans still aren't convinced.

I guess though, we don't know at what stage Doyle decided to jump ship, and we couldn't predict William's injury.

(As an aside I still think Adam D'arcy was better than McIlwaine, Andrew and Nelson (So far))

But anyway, the idea of shoving a 15 into a crowded center position when you have very little 15 backups is mental.

Can you imagine if management suddenly decided that Diack was allowed to be a full second row, considering our backrow at present. That's kind of the same idiocy.

clivemcl wrote:I've asked before...

Did we never look for a backrower last year? I mean are we sure that a 15 was the plan from the word go as opposed to plan B after failing to sign a backrower.

I mean there were rumours at a point of some south african backrowers no?

Also, how much has this season harmed our attractiveness as a club to onlooking NIQs...

Yes we talked to Keegan Daniel but because of the desire of Payne, backed by the IRFU, to play him at 13 Humphreys/Anscombe decided a 15 was more urgent.
You will recall the Payne move to 13 coincided with a central contract - that is no coincidence

Even with Payne moving to 13 I still think that a quality backrower would have been a better move.
Basically unless we get some half decent backrowers from Leinster/Munster you can write of next year - especially combined with Doak as head coach in the summer and for the first 2 months.
Diack, Henry, Ross a declining Wilson and a declining Williams isn't going to cut it

Doyle didn't really jump ship - he wasn't wanted.

He had a problem with set piece moves - he used to forget and screw them up

As I said before the only players who left, as opposed to retired, that we wanted to keep were Annett and Farrell.
It is true we offered Court a contract but I now believe it was only 1 year, Irish offered 3 so we said take it Tom and the best of luck.

clivemcl wrote:

(As an aside I still think Adam D'arcy was better than McIlwaine, Andrew and Nelson (So far))

I fully agree re McIlwaine but how you can say Nelson is beyond me.
Nelson will develop into a much better player than D'Arcy

As for Andrew he may not have D'Arcy handling skill but he is much better under the high ball - not that much between them.
Andrew better defensively, D'Arcy better in attack

Whatever happens lets play with pride and give it a lash - we might loss but lets do so with our heads held high

geoff999rugby wrote:Yes we talked to Keegan Daniel but because of the desire of Payne, backed by the IRFU, to play him at 13 Humphreys/Anscombe decided a 15 was more urgent.
You will recall the Payne move to 13 coincided with a central contract - that is no coincidence

Around the time Daniel was being talked about there was another uncapped Kiwi flanker being mooted - do you remember his name Geoff?

Despite all the negativity, you know every fan will probably switch on, and a little part of their heart will be wishing for some sort of miraculous stepping up from these guys.

I just hope I see pride. Scoreline is second to that.

Paddy Jackson did say "We are here for the win"!

The Great Aukster wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Yes we talked to Keegan Daniel but because of the desire of Payne, backed by the IRFU, to play him at 13 Humphreys/Anscombe decided a 15 was more urgent.
You will recall the Payne move to 13 coincided with a central contract - that is no coincidence

Around the time Daniel was being talked about there was another uncapped Kiwi flanker being mooted - do you remember his name Geoff?

Brendan O'Connor was mentioned a few times

I'm also remembering that we were said to be approaching Robbie Robinson until he had that injury that caused him to hang up the boots.

Think that was our plan, he was IQ, and an NIQ backrower. Then we were 'forced' to use the NIQ spot on the 15 shirt.

Of course when I say 'forced' I dn't believe we were had too. I think a club like Ulster should be able to resist arm twisting like that.

EDIT: It appears he has actually recovered after a career break and being dropped by the Chiefs. Apparantly he is looking for a contract overseas currently.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/64327023/robbie-robinson-on-the-lookout-for-next-rugby-contract

Should I forward this to Bryn?

We were not forced to sign a NIQ 15 we chose to

Interestingly post World Cup I do not believe Ulster will not be required to play Payne at 13 for a certain number of games, unless he is the Ireland regular in that position.

geoff999rugby wrote:We were not forced to sign a NIQ 15 we chose to

Interestingly post World Cup I do not believe Ulster will not be required to play Payne at 13 for a certain number of games, unless he is the Ireland regular in that position.  

But I'm correct in saying an IQ Robbie Robinson was Plan A, no?

That was about as clear a sealing off offence as you're going to find. Hodges obviously missed it.

I don't think I'm going to enjoy this.

JmD wrote:That was about as clear a sealing off offence as you're going to find. Hodges obviously missed it.

And that's ignoring the fact that Toulon got the ball when the ball came out the side of the scrum, which obviously he also didn't see.

SOmebody sacrificed a child to the God's for a try. If we all chip in, you never know.

Dewi Morris seems to think that Munster are playing, talking about Ulster living up to their 'Stand Up and Fight' song.

Stuck in Central Asia, and since the demise of wiziwig, have no way of viewing the game. Any suggestions and updates appreciated.

Check your private messages Humsptheman

Why did Hodges not even try to see if the ball was down? It's like he doesn't even care about this match.

Well that is an unexpected sight, Mike McComish scoring a try against Toulon!

MCCOMISH SCORES!!!

That was awful from Hodges he was in a much better position than any camera!

McComish for MoM so far... can't last :P

Ludik hurt... shoite. We can't have Ian Humphreys in this back line, waving men through

Notch wrote:That was awful from Hodges he was in a much better position than any camera!

McComish for MoM so far... can't last :P

Yep, he has got one try and the assist for the other one!

thanks Clive.

It's a good thing we have didn't select an outside back for the bench...

Can Heaney come on sitting on Marshall's shoulders in a big jacket?

One more back injury and this really will become dreadfully embarassing.

Clear as day forward pass in that try. Despite that, Ulster are giving a good account.

Pretty sure Piennar went down on a ball and was quickly followed by two knees. Bad enough being up against it without ref missing things like that!

Ludik and Jackson both injured, it never ends!

Paddys Six Nations potentially over. Gutted.

Jackson.... oh dear dear dear dear!!!!!!!!!

The touch judge told him it was forward and he ignored it.

Jackson off injured...this is going from bad to worse.

Knock on by Chris Masoe firstly earlier in the movement, then a forward pass for the try.. Hodges isn't having a good day out there.

He just said the pass was flat?!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Knock on by Chris Masoe firstly earlier in the movement, then a forward pass for the try.. Hodges isn't having a good day out there.

He just said the pass was flat?!

I burst out laughing at that, its about as clear as you can get in the modern game

And it begins..

Somebody remind me how many times you are allowed to roll on the ground before releasing the ball???

As feared, this could be a cricket score.

marty2086 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Knock on by Chris Masoe firstly earlier in the movement, then a forward pass for the try.. Hodges isn't having a good day out there.

He just said the pass was flat?!

I burst out laughing at that, its about as clear as you can get in the modern game

Don't forget Pienaar getting knees in the back as he went down to gather the ball. That's a penalty 10/10 times.

Except when this clown is refereeing. Clearly he's just there for the holiday.

clivemcl wrote:Somebody remind me how many times you are allowed to roll on the ground before releasing the ball???

You must get back to your feet, even if not held.

Toulon always get a 17th man down in south of france (16th man is their crowd). They don't need advantages like that, it just making a mockery of rugby. It was the same story when I watched the Scarlets down there.

JmD wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Somebody remind me how many times you are allowed to roll on the ground before releasing the ball???

You must get back to your feet, even if not held.

So I thought....

No problem with Bastareauds try as there was no tackler there and it was mostly momentum. Other try was dodgy.

We haven't done badly but those back line injuries fecked us. And might come back to feck us again next week.

The Saint wrote:Toulon always get a 17th man down in south of france (16th man is their crowd). They don't need advantages like that, it just making a mockery of rugby. It was the same story when I watched the Scarlets down there.

It's not even as though the crowd are loud and he's breaking under their pressure. It's straight up incompetence.