Ulster 2014/2015, Part 3

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Continue to discuss Ulsters lack of back row options and season in general

clivemcl wrote:Maybe, not sure. Sorry if I'm wrong. Either way, you can't pretend that any professional team wouldn't infringe intentionally knowing that the discipline may be better than the outcome of allowing the team's advantage to continue.

Every team does it. Getting high and mighty about it is a silly.

If the Tigers had done it I'd be cheering them on, so can't complain to much

I like the experimental idea of playing Payne at 15 and Cave at 13. It seemed to work well there tonight. Might be something to look into.

clivemcl wrote:I like the experimental idea of playing Payne at 15 and Cave at 13. It seemed to work well there tonight. Might be something to look into.  

Well played Ulster - you made Leicester look ordinary for most of that match.

Ulster bunch of cheating ***** how can anyone support a team that cheats so much.

Really I saw more going in at the side from Leicester in the first half than I have hot dinners and I'm 60.
Basically Ulster wised up to the fact and decided if they can do it why cant we.

Getting boring now putting Leicester to the sword can we have different opposition next year


Top performance when you have a stable TH not a choclate teapot (Fitzpatrick)
Also when you have a balanced backrow.
Also when Payne at 15 and Cave at 13 - quell surprise. Maybe just maybe it is the best combination.

Ah that was enjoyable. Very, very enjoyable. It must be said though, this is not a great Leicester side. They have one idea, physically dominate the opposition. Once you match them there, they have no invention. Just hit it up and go to ground. We defended very well but any top European side would have put away another score or two in that second half, especially when we were defending with 13! They might feel they need some new ideas in their coaching staff to move forward because their game behind the scrum hasn't evolved and the best teams in this Cup and the AP can all match or better them up front.

We were very good. We had much more creativity and run much better lines in attack. That was the main difference between the teams. Got to give credit to the defence because we were winning most of the collisions for pretty much the whole 80 minutes. Some huge hits being put in there! Cave and Gilroy put their hands up and the tight five were great. Alan O'Connor has done very well in the last two weeks against good opposition. I could see him keeping his place and Henderson playing 6 long-term, Irelands needs notwithstanding.

A really good performance that will hopefully act as a springboard for the rest of our season.

Great game tonight. I almost cried with joy at the spectacle of Henderson ripping up trees. It's been said before, but the man is a freak. Just back from months off, and he can produce a performance like that. No doubt Joe has taken note. Cave also had a great game, and with three tries, it's hard to argue that he doesn't fully deserve his MOTM.

What a difference having a backrow makes, and a gifted fullback playing at...fullback! There were also big performances from the remainder of the forwards. Best, Herbst, Van der Merwe and O'Conner, all played their hearts out.

O'Connor looks a serious player. Done well at every level he has competed against. Interestingly the leicester guys I was with were hoping that tuilagi buggers off at the end of the season

By the way... Jerome Garces can go f#$k himself with a large rusty pole

Is it a bit class-less, having just buggered a team that well, for the fans to start chanting "their" songs at them? Don't know why but it just seemed off when ulster fans started singing swing low.

It's like you've just hammered them for 80 mins but neither of you have really had a Euro season to be proud of so be a little gracious in victory please.

Yes I would agree but in the same way it is classless for Ashton to do that splash etc, it's everywhere in rugby now.

yappysnap wrote:Is it a bit class-less, having just buggered a team that well, for the fans to start chanting "their" songs at them? Don't know why but it just seemed off when ulster fans started singing swing low.

It's like you've just hammered them for 80 mins but neither of you have really had a Euro season to be proud of so be a little gracious in victory please.

It's a tradition when we play Leicester. Its only about the craic.

Also on a quick sidenote Iain Henderson is the only person who can play like he plays, be that tall and aggressive, grow a mahasssive beard and still look like a baby face.

yappysnap wrote:Is it a bit class-less, having just buggered a team that well, for the fans to start chanting "their" songs at them? Don't know why but it just seemed off when ulster fans started singing swing low.

It's like you've just hammered them for 80 mins but neither of you have really had a Euro season to be proud of so be a little gracious in victory please.

So it would be ok if we had a Euro season to be proud of?

I understand your point, yappy. Boot on the other foot, and all that, but it's really just a bit of lighthearted banter. I'm certain that all the travelling Leicester fans out in Belfast tonight will be having a great time mixing with the Ulster fans, and will have no complaints.

yappysnap wrote:Is it a bit class-less, having just buggered a team that well, for the fans to start chanting "their" songs at them? Don't know why but it just seemed off when ulster fans started singing swing low.

It's like you've just hammered them for 80 mins but neither of you have really had a Euro season to be proud of so be a little gracious in victory please.

For those who know their rugby history its lighthearted banter, but for those with no empathy or wherewithal to understand the traditions of the game it probably comes across that way. Parling was a massive loss and Kitchener is no Johnson. Any lack of grace seems to be coming from a few Tigers fans on this thread who are calling Ulster cheats. Thankfully the ones I spoke to at the ground who were actually there supporting their team had a full understanding of the history between the sides, were very gracious in defeat and appreciative of the lighthearted banter.

geoff999rugby wrote:Really I saw more going in at the side from Leicester in the first half than I have hot dinners and I'm 60.

That's optimistic. Ulster were lucky to only get the two yellow cards. After the beautiful rugby they played in attack the cynical penalties conceded in defence were embarrassing.

The comments about this being and average Tigers team are very true. There's going to be a large overhaul this summer and behind the scenes the overhaul has already begun.

Good luck in the Pro 12 and hopefully see you in the knock out stages next year.

formerly known as Sam wrote:The comments about this being and average Tigers team are very true. There's going to be a large overhaul this summer and behind the scenes the overhaul has already begun.

Good luck in the Pro 12 and hopefully see you in the knock out stages next year.

Good luck to you too Sam. I like the Tigers, they're a proper rugby club.

I would have liked to see us treat it as a match to be won, rather than that desperate search for tries from anywhere. First that put us in awful trouble at times and allowed Ulster to capitalise on mistakes and secondly we do not have the skill to run tries in from all over.

Would still have lost but at least it would have felt like a contest.

Here is hoping we both manage to qualify for next seasons tournament.

Ulster had nothing to lose in their minds and wanted to put on a show - kicking for the line rather than taking points, running from deep and playing without the weight of expectation on their shoulders. I thought it was brave of the coaches to allow them that freedom, when building up points to secure a much needed win might have been more politically expedient.

I have been increasingly impressed by Alan O'Connor every time I see him. He plays with his head up to see what's around him, and when he was replaced by Stevenson there was a noticeable drop in quality. Geoff will recall that I was not massively keen to see big Lew return from Quins (nor was I keen to sign John Andress who was talked about at that time). These players had been already weighed, measured and found wanting, so Ulster should have been looking to put the next generation in the scales. It seems Alan Clarke still has that mentality and it was only because Tuohy, Henderson and subsequently Raaymakers were all injured that AOC got his chances.

Great to see Henderson in his winter coat running about like a bullock in spring, and but for one or two rusty timing issues and a lack of match fitness he was close to my MOTM. Good too to see Marshall back, but every time he made a big tackle I feared for him. It obviously didn't bother him though with a top tackle stat of 18 made and 2 missed. I have been critical of Cave in defence recently and he made 8 and missed 2, but he was great in attack and fully deserved the MOTM award. What he is excellent at is sizing up the attacking opportunity really quickly and putting himself where he's needed.

Gilroy too had a very good game and looks to be near his best. Payne is as everyone knows a Test class fullback and made some very important tackles. His positioning is really good but on a couple of occasions he pulled out of the high ball and I wondered if that uncertainty was a legacy of his red card?

I have no problem with Stevenson coming back he has something to offer and is a good 4th choice Lock.
McComb on the other hand is a waste of a contract.


The Sweet chariot thing is a bit of an in joke between Leicester and Ulster.
Afterwards Leicester and Ulster fans were singing it together, in one of the bars, and in great spirit.

Leicester fans are right up there with Clermont, Saints and Glaws are being amongst the best to come to Ireland.

PS Did Darren earn his contract today

So what are we looking at during the 6N which will go a long way to deciding where we end up next season

Black
Herring (released by Ireland)
Herbst
VDM
O'Connor (with Tuohy for the later games too)
Diack (released by Ireland)
Boys/McComish
Wilson/Williams
Pienaar
IHumph
Gilroy? (May not be released). If not Allen
Marshall (will he be called up after that effort?)
Cave (released by Ireland)
Trimble to return soon hopefully. If not then ???
Nelson/Ludik

Pack looks an awful lot healthier but we really need leaders particularly away from Ravenhill

geoff999rugby wrote:I have no problem with Stevenson coming back he has something to offer and is a good 4th choice Lock.
McComb on the other hand is a waste of a contract.

When Stevenson came back he was third choice - Ulster needed better then to replace Matt McCullough. LS should have replaced McComb in 2011 as a fourth choice improvement. It's only by chance that O'Connor has got the opportunity to impress through injury and jump ahead ofStevenson or he would still be third choice. When is Donnan going to get a chance? I thought Simpson deserved more of a look in as well.

geoff999rugby wrote:The Sweet chariot thing is a bit of an in joke between Leicester and Ulster.
Afterwards Leicester and Ulster fans were singing it together, in one of the bars, and in great spirit.

Leicester fans are right up there with Clermont, Saints and Glaws are being amongst the best to come to Ireland.

Agree 100%

Scholes will come into the equation if Gilroy not released and Trimble not fit.
As you say looking a lot better.

Remember Treviso will loose lots of players as will Scarlets.
Edinburgh and Dragons not so much but still not too bad

The reality is you need people like Stevenson if you want some depth.
He gives you something extra in a way McComb does not.

Agree totally re O'Connor only getting an opportunity by chance - something I was critical of above.
Donnan looks promising and should be on the bench in a few games but wont be.
Simpson does look good as well but seems to lack the top two inches unfortunately

geoff999rugby wrote:PS Did Darren earn his contract today

Yes - see above?

geoff999rugby wrote:The reality is you need people like Stevenson if you want some depth.
He gives you something extra in a way McComb does not.

Agree totally re O'Connor only getting an opportunity by chance - something I was critical of above.
Donnan looks promising and should be on the bench in a few games but wont be.
Simpson does look good as well but seems to lack the top two inches unfortunately

I agree about Stevenson being ahead of McComb, because he offers a passion that McComb just doesn't have. McComb is better in the lineout, faster round the pitch and can play backrow but all that's meaningless if it isn't applied and unfortunately for him it isn't. It was telling that McComb was the one sent off for the Props during the bin periods considering he was the freshest forward on the pitch!

McComb is 31 and Stevenson 30 so it's really about time that Ulster gave homegrown guys a go rather than bemoan a lack of depth when injuries happen.

What is O'Connors contract situation? I would be for tying him down so those Mexicans don't get any ideas. Keep saying it but he seems to have a bit of an angry head which I like. A natural aggression if you will

Standulstermen wrote:O'Connor looks a serious player. Done well at every level he has competed against. Interestingly the leicester guys I was with were hoping that tuilagi buggers off at the end of the season

Ignore them, unfortunately we have a few fans that get the hump when the going gets tuff. Things haven't been good this year but we're certainly starting to put instead place the right coaches.

The Great Aukster wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Is it a bit class-less, having just buggered a team that well, for the fans to start chanting "their" songs at them? Don't know why but it just seemed off when ulster fans started singing swing low.

It's like you've just hammered them for 80 mins but neither of you have really had a Euro season to be proud of so be a little gracious in victory please.

For those who know their rugby history its lighthearted banter, but for those with no empathy or wherewithal to understand the traditions of the game it probably comes across that way. Parling was a massive loss and Kitchener is no Johnson. Any lack of grace seems to be coming from a few Tigers fans on this thread who are calling Ulster cheats. Thankfully the ones I spoke to at the ground who were actually there supporting their team had a full understanding of the history between the sides, were very gracious in defeat and appreciative of the lighthearted banter.

Chill out.

I apologise for my lack of empathy or rugby history, didn't realise we all needed to have taken an A level in it or something before we could comment.

Btw I'm not a Leicester fan, my team won yesterday. So as a neutral I found it a little crass but as others have explained the reasoning behind it I'll leave it there.

nathan wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:O'Connor looks a serious player. Done well at every level he has competed against. Interestingly the leicester guys I was with were hoping that tuilagi buggers off at the end of the season

Ignore them, unfortunately we have a few fans that get the hump when the going gets tuff. Things haven't been good this year but we're certainly starting to put instead place the right coaches.

not from the point of view of not rating him. just from the point of view they would prefer a player with maybe slightly less quality that is there week in week out and not injured constantly

Standulstermen wrote:What is O'Connors contract situation? I would be for tying him down so those Mexicans don't get any ideas. Keep saying it but he seems to have a bit of an angry head which I like. A natural aggression if you will

He is in the 3rd year of the Academy and will be getting a contract very soon.

The Great Aukster wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:PS Did Darren earn his contract today

Yes - see above?

I thought he was good but like Fitzgerald a bit of a political pick for motm. Made a loose kick to Tait and was caught out a few times in defence. Took his 3 tries really well but everyone knows that is what he's good at. He seems to have slimmed down a bit too.

The real difference I thought was Humphreys finding his mojo and the superb performances of the back 3, who were at the heart of everything in attack. Gilroy for me must be pushing for the left wing spot for Ireland - mind you Zebo and McFadden had really good performances too, as did Earls at 13 (who was better than either Cave or fitzgerald - Dineen was the best of the lot).

My MOTM would have been Henderson though, who looked awesome considering how long he's been out. Pienaar looked more like himself too.

Overall great performance but really frustrating that we didn't produces that in Round 1 or 4 and we would still be in the competition.

To be fair though Earls and Dineen were playing against poor opposition
Fitzgerald and Cave had more to handle

geoff998rugby wrote:To be fair though Earls and Dineen were playing against poor opposition
Fitzgerald and Cave had more to handle

True but Leicester's midfield was a long way from top quality either. Cave did well, what he does well - pick great lines and poach in and around the opposition line, and didn't do well what he doesn't - defend one on one in space and make line breaks himself.

Payne, Bowe and Gilroy providing creativity and penetration through the middle made was the key thing for me, as was henderons ball carrying - albeit Cave is a classy finisher, no doubt about it.

It will be interesting to see who Schmidt goes for for Italy, as there were some really good performances from outside backs... but not so good at 10/12, were Keatley, Marshall and Madigan all struggled and D'arcy hasn't played much in recent weeks.

Henderon sounds a lot more menacing. Like some sort of dinosaur

RELEASE THE HENDERON !!!!
sorry just finished a nice ght shift and it tickled me

Surprised you thought Marshall struggled Rodders. He was the top tackler in the match with 18 from 20 and regularly made yards beyond the gainline.

The Great Aukster wrote:Surprised you thought Marshall struggled Rodders. He was the top tackler in the match with 18 from 20 and regularly made yards beyond the gainline.

Maybe need to rewatch - I just thought he looked a bit rusty and recall 2 missed tackled down the right touchline. Maybe struggled was a bit harsh, I just mean he looks short of his best, and in the context of the 6N. I wouldn't think he'd be too high up the pecking order even with the lack of options at 12.

Agree he was rusty esp. going forward and also agree that he should be nowhere near the 6N. IMO Joe will go with Henshaw at 12 and Payne 13.

But without Henshaw, D'Arcy being crap and Madigan at 10 who is there

Rumour from another forum (though not The Other Forum) is that we've two forwards signed for next season, one from another province (most likely Dougall).

Hopefully Keiron Reid or Eben Etzebeth is the other.

Henshaw is fit now Geoff. He'll probably start at 12 with Fitzgerald or Payne outside him.

Fingers crossed for some decent back rows Don

I'd assume the other is IQ as well. Maybe another Doyle/Reidy. Or a Leinster lad.

Did Willie Fallon extend his deal at Connacht? I'd love to poach CJ Stander off Munster .... or get Neil Best back....

Neil Best would come with a zimmerframe and an attitude problem! I think I prefer Clive Ross...

Heard from a reliable source that Johnny Bell is off to join Mr Humphreys at the end of the season. Will leave a big gap in Ulster's coaching panel.

Monkeyan wrote:Heard from a reliable source that Johnny Bell is off to join Mr Humphreys at the end of the season. Will leave a big gap in Ulster's coaching panel.

I'm not so sure about that. Les Kiss is coming in as a former international defence coach. It's sad, but we'll have some good knowledge in that area.