Ulster 2014/2015, Part 3

First topic message reminder :

Continue to discuss Ulsters lack of back row options and season in general

Notch wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Notch wrote:

marty2086 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31623859

This baffles me, on the back of McCloskeys ban, Nakarawa has received a 3 week ban for what was some serious foul play.

After a collapsed scrum he launched himself head first at the Ospreys prop who was still planted into the ground with the back of his neck exposed

Don't think too hard about it. You won't find consistency.

Just a couple of facts about this, which it may be instructive to group together:

1. the BBC happens to mentioned that disciplinary committee was "all-Irish, chaired by Pat Barriscale".
2. Pat Barriscale is from Limerick.
3. the first of the 3 games Naka will miss is against Munster.
4. the final game Naka will miss is against Leinster.

So, obviously, no rats to be smelled there.

Geoff made the same points about McCloskeys ban which was given by an all Welsh panel and covers games against the Scarlets, Dragons and Cardiff. Personally I think both are reaching. Your entire argument is based on assuming bias without any evidence, which is exactly the same crapola peddled by the likes of our friend Chunky.

The extra week for McCloskey makes zero difference in that he misses the same number of games as Nakarawa. Now thats stupid.

I'm just kidding. But I feel dirty all over now and will have to stop.

I'm so glad to hear that GC.

I don't know if we could cope with losing another ardent fan in such a short space of time!

marty2086 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31623859

This baffles me, on the back of McCloskeys ban, Nakarawa has received a 3 week ban for what was some serious foul play.

After a collapsed scrum he launched himself head first at the Ospreys prop who was still planted into the ground with the back of his neck exposed

Another valid point that is often neglected by the panels is that whether a red was given or not should come into play when deciding the length of ban as this is effictively time already spent banned.

McCloskey already lost out on half a game whereas Nakarawa played the full game in which he committed the foul. Look at Payne last season for example. 8 minutes in wasn't it? Was the near entirity of that match counted as the first week's banning?

clivemcl wrote:

marty2086 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31623859

This baffles me, on the back of McCloskeys ban, Nakarawa has received a 3 week ban for what was some serious foul play.

After a collapsed scrum he launched himself head first at the Ospreys prop who was still planted into the ground with the back of his neck exposed

Another valid point that is often neglected by the panels is that whether a red was given or not should come into play when deciding the length of ban as this is effictively time already spent banned.

McCloskey already lost out on half a game whereas Nakarawa played the full game in which he committed the foul.  Look at Payne last season for example. 8 minutes in wasn't it? Was the near entirity of that match counted as the first week's banning?

It would surely make more sense to have one panel comprised of a representative of each union for a season or even the week then there might be some consistency and logic to the process

I see on the rumours section there's mention of Michael Fitzgerald (Chiefs) linked with Leicester. If it's true he's IQ, then surely an irish province ought to snap him up if he's keen to come to europe??

Then we could knock the Hendo at lock thing on the head and potentially not renew Van Der Merve's NIQ contract (no offence Franco).

I think Franco has been a great signing, Clive. There has been a couple of games that he hasn't been at his best, but I put that down to his being jaded, and needing a break.

It's been a tough season for all the new signings. We have had so many injuries, and so much has been demanded of them from the start. There wasn't the luxury of easing any player in. Have to say I'm really pleased with them all. Not forgetting O'Connor, of course, who has been fantastic for us.

Munchkin wrote:I think Franco has been a great signing, Clive. There has been a couple of games that he hasn't been at his best, but I put that down to his being jaded, and needing a break.

It's been a tough season for all the new signings. We have had so many injuries, and so much has been demanded of them from the start. There wasn't the luxury of easing any player in. Have to say I'm really pleased with them all. Not forgetting O'Connor, of course, who has been fantastic for us.

It's not a case of him being poor - far from it. But I genuinely think Michael Fitzgerald is of a similar standard and crucially - he's IQ. Don't forget we lose one of our NIQ spaces once the contracts wind up anyway.

I'd say keep Herbst
Ludik....meh - keep?
Williams trade in for a big name backrower
Franco's being the slot we lose.

Firstly Henderson will be a lock - we have to live with that.
Ireland see him as POCs replacement.

I do not believe Ludik, de Merwe or Williams will have their contract renewed next summer.
Look at the age of de Merwe and Williams next summer.
Ludik could be resigned if we don't have adequate cover at 15.
My gut feeling is you will see Payne reverting to 15 after the World Cup so no need of Ludik.
By then the likes of Olding and Mccloskey will ready for 12 and Henshaw can move to his best position 13.
Henshaw - Payne is a make do solution for 1 year only imv.

2016-2017 Ulster will have Henderson, Tuohy, Stevenson, O'Connor, Browne and, hopefully, Donnan as Locks - no NIQ

The 2 freed up slots will be used for backrowers, or possibly, another TH if no backup to Herbst is signed.

Fitzgerald is IQ and a lock - no identication he is coming to Ulster that I am aware of.
Wouldn't mind being proved wrong though

geoff998rugby wrote:

The 2 freed up slots will be used for backrowers, or possibly, another TH if no backup to Herbst is signed.

On that note. I see Jake Byrne will be joining our academy from Northampton. If we can't produce them we may as well continue sourcing these english young lads who are IQ. It does leave a bad taste though. How many of our academy are from outside our province now??

geoff998rugby wrote:
The 2 freed up slots will be used for backrowers, or possibly, another TH if no backup to Herbst is signed.

Its a pity we don't have anyone on the books already who could provide backup to him

Until the strangle hold of schools rugby is broken we will continue to under deliver players internally

As I mentioned Ross has done well and will be retained.
Fitzpatrick - too many concussions and Lutton - personality clash are on the way out.
Dont know about Ryan but he has done nothing to suggest he is good enough.
In 2016 we will need another player good enough to supplement Herbst and Ross

(15-9): L Ludik, C Gilroy, D Cave, L Marshall, M Allen, I Humphreys, R Pienaar
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, R Wilson (Captain), C Ross, N Williams

Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, B Ross, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, M Stanley, R Scholes

Tuohy is back! And Tim Boys has injured his toe... I suppose at least Mike Stanley is on the bench. Cave and Wilson are available- yeah its a good team. I'm happy with it.

Boys injured his toe.... We're not having much luck with these new signings. Will we now sign someone to cover Boys?

Great to see both Tuohy, and Scoles, back. Hopefully Stanley will give us all something to smile about. No less than a 5 point win with that team

I'm actually nervous for Humphreys now that I know it's his 100th cap, because if he plays like he did last week no-one will feel like celebrating at all.

Pienaar could make 500 league points. Might need a try himself to do it though.

Scholes making a return too I see, happy days.
It's not a bad looking squad especially being within an international window and taking our injuries into account.

Hope lives!!!

Notch wrote:(15-9): L Ludik, C Gilroy, D Cave, L Marshall, M Allen, I Humphreys, R Pienaar
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, R Wilson (Captain), C Ross, N Williams

Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, B Ross, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, M Stanley, R Scholes

My god. It's men against boys. Inexperienced referee too.

Ulster by 3 scores.

Only 15 players unavailable for the Scarlets this weekend. Pretty good going.

Scarlets have two good jackling opensides against a team that has forgotten how to clear a breakdown. They could get a lot of traction there and if the penalty count goes against us, it will he hard work.

Ulster haven't forgotten how to clear the breakdown, they just noticed that they now need to do it legally.

Tell that to Stuart McCloskey.

clivemcl wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I think Franco has been a great signing, Clive. There has been a couple of games that he hasn't been at his best, but I put that down to his being jaded, and needing a break.

It's been a tough season for all the new signings. We have had so many injuries, and so much has been demanded of them from the start. There wasn't the luxury of easing any player in. Have to say I'm really pleased with them all. Not forgetting O'Connor, of course, who has been fantastic for us.

It's not a case of him being poor - far from it. But I genuinely think Michael Fitzgerald is of a similar standard and crucially - he's IQ. Don't forget we lose one of our NIQ spaces once the contracts wind up anyway.

I'd say keep Herbst
Ludik....meh - keep?
Williams trade in for a big name backrower
Franco's being the slot we lose.

My thinking was that if we had to lose one of the four to free up an NIQ spot for next season, I would go with either Ludik, or Williams. Ludik, if Payne is moved back to 15, and in exchange for a top back-rower. I don't know enough about Fitzgerald, but agree that if he is as good as Franco it would make sense to bring him in, and free up an NIQ spot. Whatever happen, Clive, I just want a top back-row player in place next season.

In 2016 it is only 4 NIQ - Herbst and Pienaer are nailed on.
One of the other must be a backrower
That leaves 1 slot between Ludik, de Merwe, Williams and a possible TH - make your choice

There will be no top backrower coming in next year unless he is IQ or Williams contract is torn up

Chunky Norwich wrote:Only 15 players unavailable for the Scarlets this weekend. Pretty good going.

I can come up with 13 for Ulster not that different

Ben Whitehouse referred our game at Treviso.
Had a good game - hard but clear and consistant which is fair enough.
Much better than Hodges last week

Thought that was him. Yes he did have a good game out there. 

Good team. Hopefully we get 4 points and keep moving closer to the top

geoff998rugby wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Only 15 players unavailable for the Scarlets this weekend. Pretty good going.

I can come up with 13 for Ulster not that different

Ben Whitehouse referred our game at Treviso.
Had a good game - hard but clear and consistant which is fair enough.
Much better than Hodges last week

That's Nigel Whitehouse's lad I think. If he's anything like his old man, then he should be a ref to keep an eye on for the future.

He was good.

Crystal clear instruction so the players were in no doubt what he expected and what he was going to penalise.

Obviously nervous but a lot of more experienced referees would benefit from following his example.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Only 15 players unavailable for the Scarlets this weekend. Pretty good going.

Most likely Ulster's fault.

Inexperienced referee, Ulster missing 2 less player than Scarlets and being played on a Friday ...its a conspiracy I tell yer

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Ulster haven't forgotten how to clear the breakdown, they just noticed that they now need to do it legally.

I am glad Ulster are learning. So when are the Scarlets planning to do the same?

Geoff, I've heard that Ulster are going to try to score more points than the Scarlets. They're not even trying to hide the fact! Completely barefaced about it!

They may even have drawn up plans to stop the Scarlet scoring points themselves.

HOW IS THAT FAIR? !?

I too have heard rumours that the Ravenspan faithful are planning on singing supportive songs tonight in order to give yet another Irish provincial team an unfair advantage. It's not a fair league I tells ya!!!!

Its a good thing its on a Friday so we can choreograph our songs. The game on any other day throws my preparation out of whack

Regards the prop scene for this year or next...We lost 2 (Cort/Afoa) & signed 3 at the beginning of the season (Ryan, Murphy & Herbst)...Haven't we much of the first 2 yet?
Where does Ruaidhri Murphy fit in...

Does he remain injured after finger injury in November? I thought he was a promising prospect..

RF09 wrote:Does he remain injured after finger injury in November? I thought he was a promising prospect..

On his twitter he said he was available from mid January. Just not being picked? Kyle McCall started the Ravens game at loosehead. Is McCall ahead of Murphy?

Murphy is 3rd choice LH behind Black and Warwick

I wouldn't go by Ravens selection which is a shambolic mess and does not relate to the ability of the players available or their potential.

Ryan contract is up in 2016 - nothing seen so far that he wont go the same way as Fitzpatrick and Lutton - hence why we need another TH in 2016 to supplement Herbst and Ross.
Of course if Clarkes contract is not renewed Lutton may well get a reprieve

How prominent was Murphy with Brumbies? I'm assuming he expected to be higher in the ranking when deciding to move to Ulster?

I'd seen some footage of Murphy being quite a destructive scrummager although the law changes don't seem to have suited him. If you fail to evolve you fall by the wayside.

Any ladies going tonight - go and give Deccie a hug.
He might be feeling lonely given the competition  

Exclusive Members Bar Meet the Players: Tonight from 7.00pm to 7.30pm, players will be in both the 1925 and Spirit of 99 Bars to chat with fans, answers questions about the team performance or their recovery from injury, and buy pints on Ulster Rugby!

Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding will be in the 1925 Bar.

Andrew Trimble and Declan Fitzpatrick will be in the Spirit of 99 Bar.

I'm going to insist Paddy and Stuart buy all my pints otherwise I'll tell Neil what state they were in on Saturday night

clivemcl wrote:How prominent was Murphy with Brumbies? I'm assuming he expected to be higher in the ranking when deciding to move to Ulster?

His injury and Warwicks form have pushed him down the ranking.

Having said that we have genuine strength in depth at LH - not true the other side - especially with Lutton being blanked

geoff999rugby wrote:Having said that we have genuine strength in depth at LH - not true the other side - especially with Lutton being blanked

So essentially we need a new TH even though we have a TH who is quite capable and probably better than our current 2nd choice all because a coach doesn't like him?

Heres hoping Les Kiss sees something in Lutton next season and hands him a new contract

I know - under all the improvements in the last few years their is still some rank amateurish behaviour.
The disorganized mess that is the Ravens being a classic example

geoff999rugby wrote:I know - under all the improvements in the last few years their is still some rank amateurish behaviour.
The disorganized mess that is the Ravens being a classic example

Was just looking at that a few weeks ago, Leinster have blooded the likes of Reid, Ryan, Conan and McGrath through the B&I Cup and creating a winning mentality, whereas as Ulster have messed around with it playing experimental teams and putting guys in to make up the numbers

Just earlier I was trying to find the teamsheets for the Ravens results this season. Nearly impossible.

Go on the Ospreys! Wait - am I right? I find it so hard to tell who I should support when the top of the table is as tight as this!

So what's your opinions? How do we want these results to go apart from a lack of bonus points all round?
Leinster v Ospreys
Glasgow v Munster

1) Glasgow Warriors 52
2) Ulster Rugby 48
3) Munster Rugby 48
4) Leinster Rugby 47
--------------------------
5) Ospreys 45

All four Irish provinces to win would be the best result.

It moves Connacht on to cementing their top 6 spot. And if Ospreys lose to Leinster, then Connacht would be 4-5 points off 5th spot.

Munster and Ulster wining would put them on level points at least with Glasgow and Leinster 1 point behind putting a 6 point margin on the playoff teams and the chasing pack.

Right... Get Stanley on.

can anyone pm me a link to watch it? in australia

Ospreys 5 points behind us now with Munster up next. If we can beat their points tally from next week they still have Glasgow and away to Connacht as well. Not our run in but still.

I can't believe how bad we can be and be joint top of the league. Doesn't say much for the league I must admit.

It's like after half time we though 'Right we better get the finger out' and then as soon as it seemed even slightly comfortable on the scoreboard we took the foot off the gas.

Penalty count was disgustingly high.

Mike Stanley looked to have a nice pass (the little we saw of him). And got wrongly pinged at the end. Not the impression he probably hoped to make, but still I want to see more of him before I go calling for him to start.

Ian can be so bad, but then also - did you see Luke Marshall's try. Superb. So hot and cold.

Still though, as poor as he has been of late, we probably would have crumbled completely if it were NOC in the past 3/4 games rather than squeeze out wins.

There's a limit to what you can expect from backups. That's why they are backups and not first choice!