Ulster 2014/2015, Part 3

by **Notch** Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

Continue to discuss Ulsters lack of back row options and season in general

by **Notch** Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:42 pm

McCloskey, yas. Brilliant.

It seems like... there's no job for Boys.

Biggest concern is the absence of Alan O'Connor.

by **Notch** Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:55 pm

Treviso

15 Jayden Hayward 14 Angelo Esposito 13 Enrico Bacchin 12 Sam Christie 11 Ludovico Nitoglia 10 Joe Carlisle 9 Alberto Lucchese

8 Mat Luamanu 7 Dean Budd 6 Meyer Swanepoel 5 Corniel Van Zyl 4 Antonio Pavanello (captain) 3 Rupert Harden 2 Davide Giazzon 1 Matteo Zanusso

16 Albert Anae 17 Josè Novak 18 Salesi Manu 19 Tomas Vallejos 20 Nicola Cattina 21 Andrea Pratichetti 22 James Ambrosini 23 Henry Seniloli

by **George Carlin** Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:24 pm

Notch wrote:Treviso

15 Jayden Hayward 14 Angelo Esposito 13 Enrico Bacchin 12 Sam Christie 11 Ludovico Nitoglia 10 Joe Carlisle 9 Alberto Lucchese

8 Mat Luamanu 7 Dean Budd 6 Meyer Swanepoel 5 Corniel Van Zyl 4 Antonio Pavanello (captain) 3 Rupert Harden 2 Davide Giazzon 1 Matteo Zanusso

16 Albert Anae 17 Josè Novak 18 Salesi Manu 19 Tomas Vallejos 20 Nicola Cattina 21 Andrea Pratichetti 22 James Ambrosini 23 Henry Seniloli

Meyer Swanepoel, Corniel Van Zyl and Davide Giazzon all sound like characters Peter Sellers just invented.

by clivemcl Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:03 pm

So, did Tim Boys not make the grade? We went to the effort of flying someone from New Zealand. Could we not have figured out of he was better than Clive Ross/McComish without giving him a holiday and a game for our Ravens?

Or is an injury cover supposed to be a 'in emergency break glass' type of player someone who only gets used if another injury leaves us threadbare?

by **Notch** Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:15 pm

Or maybe he just took a knock last week. We don't know. Lets wait and see.

by clivemcl Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:29 pm

Notch wrote:Or maybe he just took a knock last week. We don't know. Lets wait and see.

If thats the case then we must have the worst luck with injury cover ever (even if it's only a minor injury).

by marty2086 Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:42 pm

Notch wrote:I think Trimble could be back for Edinburgh.

Nope

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/3284/Trimble-to-miss-the-rest-of-the-season-.aspx

He's out for the season furious

by Don Alfonso Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:05 pm

Just saw that. Gutted for him. Can't see him making the RWC at this rate.

by marty2086 Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:18 pm

Don, if he's back for preseason there's no reason he should make the RWC, SOB has been dropped in with less than two games under his belt this season and no tests for 18 months so

With 4 warm up games hopefully he can get fit in time

by **Notch** Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:27 pm

Yeah, I think given his track record under Schmidt if he can hit the ground running in pre-season and in the warm-ups he'll be in with a shot at the RWC.

by Pete330v2 Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:43 pm

Ah why can't we swear on here, I need to swear.
Absolutely gutted for the guy.
He was in the form of his career Sad

by clivemcl Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:29 pm

Funny story, sometimes I never pay much attention to the private messages on here and only notice them months later. I wonder if others are the same. Every now and then I take a look just in case somebody has sent me something.

Still hopeful Trimble will make it for the World Cup. Gilroy's got a real chance now to show he's a mature top level player.

by clivemcl Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:54 pm

The winner for most undeserved scorer tonight goes to Stevenson whose been having a mare. McComish is trying his best to do worse though, throwing the ball to nobody a meter from the tryline.

Edit: Disallowed.

by neilthom7 Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:58 pm

That Treviso Number 7 with the green scrum cap is ridiculous I haven't seen him make one tackle that hasn't been around the neck so far and surely Lewis Stevenson knew he was going to be offside there too w ehave been awful with our execution

by clivemcl Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:59 pm

That was definitely a trip on Gilroy from the Treviso player who fumbled. Can't believe nobody asked for a TMO.

by neilthom7 Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:05 pm

Well at least we now know it only takes 2 Treviso players in the bin for us to score. Our execution tonight has been so terrible. Still 2 tries needed now for the bonus point

by neilthom7 Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:14 pm

One more try needed now, good to see Big Stuart back and on the scoresheet. Lovely kick from Pienaar

by clivemcl Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:17 pm

Neil, somehow my TV is lagging behind yours! Is it just how long the signal takes to travel to Coleraine?? Bench cleared. Fresh legs. Here's hoping!

by neilthom7 Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:17 pm

Ah that's nice for Gilroy on his 100th cap but more importantly that's the bonus point no matter how hard we made it on ourselves for 65 minutes

by neilthom7 Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:19 pm

No idea Clive, just spotted that so sorry if I ruined those tries for you, maybe it's a conspiracy from the beeb to keep tv out of the west lol

by neilthom7 Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:20 pm

Haha go on Big Andy Warwick that will be a 50 metre sprint by the time he retells that one lol

by neilthom7 Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:22 pm

And it's all going off now, well played Craig and why couldn't we do this for the first 60 mins

by neilthom7 Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:26 pm

Well in the end we pulled away and played some nice stuff at the end but for 60 minutes that was dire execution by us and simply needs to improve but at least we did get there in the end. Scrum was solid against a big Treviso pack and its good to see McCloskey back too. A full 5 points got so I will take it but demand better performances than this.

by clivemcl Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:33 pm

Scoreline flattered us. Lets be honest, it was a lot down to Treviso fitness. They pretty much just couldn't cope in the last 15minutes.

Certainly not overly optimistic despite the scores.

But I am feeling perky though. I put it down to seeing Andy Warwick score, a fantastic intercept, McCloskey back on the pitch and Robinson being a geg....

Must do better though.

I'm not the best at watching the detail, but did it seem like Williams was hardly used as a carrier at all tonight but rather tasked with clearing out. He was demented in doing so. He lined up and hit one ruck five times repeatedly despite very little chance of disrupting it. Just intent on inflicting pain? Wasting energy it looked like to me!

by neilthom7 Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:40 pm

Strangely he wasn't used a lot tonight in running seemed to be more McComish and Stevenson who to be honest were pretty much useless at it the entire game.

by **Notch** Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:42 pm

Brilliant news is Ospreys lost and didn't get a bonus point in Edinburgh- bad news is we're going there next week and their form is very good, but their slip-up is our opportunity. Glasgow and Ospreys play each other next weekend. If we can beat Edinburgh it'll be a massive boot.

If you had told me we'd score six tries and have a 40-point winning margin I'd have bitten your hand off, but that was very laboured for about 60 minutes from Ulster. Way, way too many frustrating errors! We blew several nailed-on chances. Lewis Stevenson just had to let Marshall pick it up fer crying out loud... But we finished very strongly. Treviso were incredibly disappointing.

by Standulstermen Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:24 am

Marshall must be cursing his luck. Should have had a brace but others botched it for him. In fairness Clive you have to give the ulster pack credit because they wore down Treviso to the point they were legless at the end.

Watching the u20s now and Arnold and Dow showing up well. Owens with a try too

by Guest Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:48 am

So many errors in the game that cost us try's, but still delighted with the bonus point win.

I think the criticism of Stevenson and McComish is harsh. Sure they made mistakes, but they were hardly alone in that. McComish give it his all, he was everywhere tonight. For me, that's three good games in a row from him.

It was great to see Warwick getting his try. He was absolutely delighted Very Happy

by **Notch** Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:19 am

Looks like we've signed some injury cover for Paddy Jackson, Mike Stanley a NZ 10 who has played for Samoa.

https://twitter.com/mj_stanley

by clivemcl Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:09 am

Unsure how good he is. I think it's right he's behind Humphreys though. In general I believe injury cover players should be 'last resort' options not a free ticket to get a better player than your squad can provide.

He may have a few recent test caps for Samoa, but year before last he was playing 4th tier english rugby...

by toml Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:55 am

Who is recruiting these players? Is is Tim Nanai williams?

by neilthom7 Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:14 pm

If that's the case toml I wish he would just recruit himself and be done with it lol

by Pete330v2 Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:15 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/11242190/England-v-Samoa-How-fly-half-Mike-Stanley-fell-in-love-with-rugby-again-while-playing-for-Southend.html

Interesting read about our latest signing

by clivemcl Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:39 pm

I never quite know how to react to these signings. When there is no possibility of staying beyond the summer, do we want him to be amazing? I guess if it helps us reach the top4 or better then yes. But it will be annoying to see a good player leave. It also seems wrong though to use injury as an excuse to get more foreigners in. You don't want the Munster/Leinster lads complaining that we couldn't do it with the same quota as the rest of them...

If he's a benchwarmer I'll be happy enough. Ian isn't amazing, but at least we aren't stuck having NOC as our backup to Paddy at a timne like this.

by clivemcl Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:10 pm

Just getting round to reading the Shane Logan interviews. Clear as mud and clearly a loads of ballix being talked. I like Beacom's line of questioning though!

SB: A few weeks later the coach Mark Anscombe was on his way. Why?

SL: Mark had agreed with David that he would stay for one more year, having had a very good couple of years for us, but when David left that changed that particular formula.

We sat down and discussed it with Mark and agreed that rather than wait for a year to part company, the right time to part company would be then. I don't think there were any hard feelings. Mark did a good job and brought a freshness to the side and we wished him well for the future.

SB: There was talk at the time that player power was one of the reasons for Anscombe leaving.

SL: No, that wasn't the case at all.

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SB: As Mark left, Ireland's assistant coach Les Kiss was appointed Ulster's new Director of Rugby, though he was only here for a short time before returning to be with Ireland, where he will stay until after the World Cup. Was that an ideal scenario?

SL: From our point of view it is a very good scenario. At least twice in my time we have conducted a search across the world and have rated all Director of Rugby/Head Coaches/Assistant coaches in the professional game, whether that's the international sides, the 38 top European clubs or the top 15 sides in the Southern hemisphere, just in case something happened with our coach or Director of Rugby and also to keep an eye on talent for the future.

On each of the two searches we did Les Kiss came out on top of the pile so we always had a view that Les, if he became available, was someone we wanted to get our hands on, so when the opportunity came we were delighted.

We understand that Les has to see out his time with the IRFU and try and win a World Cup, but we are delighted he will be with us in October or November next year.

SB: Where will that leave Neil Doak, who was named Ulster's Head coach last October?

SL: Neil will be Head Coach and Les Kiss will be Director of Rugby.

SB: So, Les Kiss will have David Humphreys' old role?

SL: No, he will have David Humphreys' title but when David left we decided to redefine the structure and roles at Ulster. Most of David's work was off the pitch. Les will be responsible for more front of the house issues. We have brought in Bryn Cunningham, a very open, straight, professional guy, to be the new Ulster Team Manager and to do a lot of what David Humphreys did.

SB: Will Les coach the team then?

SL: Yes.

SB: And Neil?

SL: Neil will coach as well. You need several coaches.

SB: So, who will be in charge of the team?

SL: Les.

SB: Isn't Neil in charge of the team now?

SL: Yes.

SB: So is the set up next season a demotion for Neil?

SL: No, not at all. This is a great opportunity for Neil to learn from and be challenged by one of the best. Let's take the English model where you have a Director of Rugby, a head coach, two assistant coaches and a head of analysis. We will have all that.

So... to summarise...

- UR really rated a coach called Les Kiss. But Les Kiss wasn't available for the upcoming year.
- UR had a coach in place who had "had a very good couple of years for us" and was on contract for one more year.
- There was no case of player power influencing MA's departure. None.
- UR then decide to cancel the remaining year with MA who "had a very good couple of years for us" and appoint the primary coaching role to Neil Doak.
- When Les Kiss returns, Neil Doak will not be demoted apparently despite the fact that his current role includes full coaching and team selection responsibility, but will eventually not.

Sounds like a great plan. And everything is going just as Shane wanted it to! thumbsup

*cough* loada ballix *cough* Run

by The Great Aukster Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:10 am

Logan isn't going to tell the full story about Anscombe to some hack - so what else is he going to say?

Considering the Treviso game it is fairly obvious that Ulster have more than just coaching issues. The team is lacking leadership on the pitch - Roger Wilson is neither leading by example nor leading by using his head. When are they going to get into their thick skulls that they need to win games first and then cut loose later. Turning down three-pointers in the first half is just stupidity of the first degree. It just keeps the other team in it and boosts their confidence. They know they can stop try scoring opportunities with impunity so Ulster just keep making it harder for themselves. The experienced guys like Pienaar and Cave should be stepping up and saying to RW to kill the game off rather than pursue headless panic and throw structure out the window.

Don't understand the signing of Mike Stanley at all. These are the times when Sean O'Hagan or even Josh Bingham could be given covering roles. It will only be a few weeks before Jackson and/or Olding are back and then there's always Pienaar. Luke is a decent 10 as well and with McCloskey back ar 12 there is no reason why LM shouldn't move in one. It is frankly ridiculous that Ulster have had to soldier on with no backrow options for most of the season and now they sign a flyhalf that they don't need - is Cunningham trying to justify his salary?

by toml Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:17 am

I agree Aukster...

Ulster seem to be very poor at future planning at the moment. They bring in these short term cover players, who are here for 6 months at most, but seem to refuse to try out any academy forwards bar O'Connor who has been tried since BMcL was in charge. Lorcan Dow seems to be highly rated and I heard Taggart was as well. Why not give them a shot and see how they go?
And what about Ricky Lutton, I thought he was a great find and our best backup to Afoa, I often thought he played better than Afoa Last season. Now he has disappeared and we persist with the chocolate teapot Deccie Fitz

by The Great Aukster Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:32 am

Doak gets a lot of bad press but if any coach deserves scrutiny its Allen Clarke - he just doesn't seem to know how to handle players especially young ones. Afoa may not have had as much influence on the front row development of young players as Botha, but he still brought both Lutton and Macklin on as scrummagers. Kyle McCall looked a real prospect until he was totally messed around this season.

Maybe Ulster couldn't sign a backrow before now, but with Henderson and Williams back, Henry in training, plus McComish on deathrow looking for a pardon, surely they didn't need Tim Boys to come in and bolt the stable door? Has Sean Reidy really been given a chance with three starts (two of which were Ulster wins)?

Then there's the curious case of Ronald Raaymakers, the injured player signed as injury cover, his agent must be in big demand. Surely James Simpson had shown enough to warrant being ahead of an injured unknown?

It is little wonder that forwards from other provinces are turned off coming to Ulster because they will fall into a black hole never to be seen again.

by clivemcl Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:47 pm

So... things are getting interesting! Ospreys slip up and now Leinster lose to Dragons!

Six points the difference in the top five! Ulster currently 4th, 2 points ahead of Leinster.

What are the run-ins like? Ulster have a tough finish - Leinster, Munster, Glasgow Shocked

Ospreys play Glasgow then Leinster then Munster in the next three weeks. If we produce the goods against Edinburgh Scarlets and Connacht.

I wonder if it's possible (neglecting morality) for Munster and Glasgow to be sure of home semis before their games against us? Let the foot off the gas maybe and help us out??

by **George Carlin** Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:16 pm

clivemcl wrote:So... things are getting interesting! Ospreys slip up and now Leinster lose to Dragons!

Six points the difference in the top five! Ulster currently 4th, 2 points ahead of Leinster.

What are the run-ins like? Ulster have a tough finish - Leinster, Munster, Glasgow

Ospreys play Glasgow then Leinster then Munster in the next three weeks. If we produce the goods against Edinburgh Scarlets and Connacht.

I wonder if it's possible (neglecting morality) for Munster and Glasgow to be sure of home semis before their games against us? Let the foot off the gas maybe and help us out??

Sorry Clive, but there will be no complacency in Glasgow.

Our run-in is fairly brutal:

21 Feb - Glasgow Warriors v Ospreys

28 Feb - Munster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

6 Mar - Glasgow Warriors v Zebre

27 Mar - Leinster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

10 Apr - Glasgow Warriors v Cardiff Blues

25 Apr - Connacht Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

10 May - Ospreys v Glasgow Warriors

17 May - Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby

5 of those 8 games against Top 5 opposition, plus Connacht at the Sportsground.

Very difficult to guarantee points from any of those 5 games. Plenty to play for.

by **BigGee** Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:30 pm

George Carlin wrote:
clivemcl wrote:So... things are getting interesting! Ospreys slip up and now Leinster lose to Dragons!

Six points the difference in the top five! Ulster currently 4th, 2 points ahead of Leinster.

What are the run-ins like? Ulster have a tough finish - Leinster, Munster, Glasgow

Ospreys play Glasgow then Leinster then Munster in the next three weeks. If we produce the goods against Edinburgh Scarlets and Connacht.

I wonder if it's possible (neglecting morality) for Munster and Glasgow to be sure of home semis before their games against us? Let the foot off the gas maybe and help us out??
Sorry Clive, but there will be no complacency in Glasgow.

Our run-in is fairly brutal:

21 Feb - Glasgow Warriors v Ospreys

28 Feb - Munster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

6 Mar - Glasgow Warriors v Zebre

27 Mar - Leinster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

10 Apr - Glasgow Warriors v Cardiff Blues

25 Apr - Connacht Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

10 May - Ospreys v Glasgow Warriors

17 May - Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby

5 of those 8 games against Top 5 opposition, plus Connacht at the Sportsground.

Very difficult to guarantee points from any of those 5 games. Plenty to play for.

The league is definitely better this year, the top 8 teams really still have stuff to play for and judging by the Dragons win today, even those that do not are still willing to give it a go. I don't think anyone is going to have an easy run in and their is certainly no room for any complacency. There will be a few more upsets before the season is out!

by Standulstermen Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:11 pm

Ulster can secure top 6 by winning the next few games. Edinburgh, dragons and Connacht away and Scarlets, Cardiff at home before we meet any top 5 side.if we up our game a bit we can be in a dominant position going into the crucial interpros and Glasgow games

Massive opportunity given the topsy turvy nature of the league this year and the fact we know the final is at ravenhill

by Sin é Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:15 am

Just curious - but why are Ulster stocking their academy with a centre from the Exiles (Sam Arnold)?

I can see why they have recruited Dow who is a backrower and they could do with a few of them.

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-u20s-france-3-players-1940296-Feb2015/

by neilthom7 Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:55 am

Sin é wrote:Just curious - but why are Ulster stocking their academy with a centre from the Exiles (Sam Arnold)?

I can see why they have recruited Dow who is a backrower and they could do with a few of them.

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-u20s-france-3-players-1940296-Feb2015/

I guess they think he has something Sin but we definitely need the back row that for sure. Dow had a good game for the 20's which begs the question of why can't we give him a go when we are as light as we sometimes are

by Standulstermen Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:42 pm

Dow can barely get a bloody game for the ravens!

by neilthom7 Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:44 pm

Standulstermen wrote:Dow can barely get a bloody game for the ravens!

Don't understand it Stand he was fantastic on Friday surely we should be giving these players a chance

by Standulstermen Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:51 pm

Over the likes of Butterworth, Reidy and mccomish I agree. Irrespective of where each individual is at in terms of their playing abilities at this current point in time the ravens should be used to give exposure to young players and not wasted time on guys who won't be retained

by **Notch** Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:55 pm

It's not like the Ravens have been winning at all anyway.

by Standulstermen Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:57 pm

Agreed

by marty2086 Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:00 pm

I think your all being a bit harsh, just look at Leinster and blooding their young players through especially in the backrow. Can you call that a success with 8 home grown back rows and 7 of them internationals? Headscratch

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