Ulster 2014/2015, Part 3

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Continue to discuss Ulsters lack of back row options and season in general

Anyone else been trying to figure out who Ulster see as their starting 12? Its obviously been pretty difficult to judge since they've all been taking turns on the medic table.

But am I right in saying that in most cases where two if not three have been available Luke has been preferred?

It will be interesting to see who takes the shirt this week.

Luke was playing with the Ravens until Olding, and McCloskey were injured. I think Olding is first choice, with McCloskey close behind.

Luke had said earlier in the season that he is going to concentrate on developing his skill set, or at least re-discover the form that we all know he had before the coaches decided to use him as a bosh merchant.
He isn't playing badly right now, but I think he is holding back a bit. It could be psychological after having had a few concussions, the media speculation won't have helped, or it could be that as the last man standing', as far as 12s go, picking up another injury would leave us without a 12, and so a little more cautious than he would be otherwise. I think more the former, personally.

I really hope Marshall gets back to his best. He's a guy I really like, and still believe he has a huge amount to offer Ulster rugby, and Ireland.

neilthom7 wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Dow can barely get a bloody game for the ravens!

Don't understand it Stand he was fantastic on Friday surely we should be giving these players a chance

Lorcan Dow is that? He came through at London Irish - very good prospect.

SirBurger wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Dow can barely get a bloody game for the ravens!

Don't understand it Stand he was fantastic on Friday surely we should be giving these players a chance

Lorcan Dow is that? He came through at London Irish - very good prospect.

Yep, he had a big game for the Irish U20s last week and looks like a serious ball carrier which is what ulster need. I'm not certain of the reasoning behind his lack of gametime but a good 6Nations and I can't see it continuing

Standulstermen wrote:

SirBurger wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Dow can barely get a bloody game for the ravens!

Don't understand it Stand he was fantastic on Friday surely we should be giving these players a chance

Lorcan Dow is that? He came through at London Irish - very good prospect.

Yep, he had a big game for the Irish U20s last week and looks like a serious ball carrier which is what ulster need. I'm not certain of the reasoning behind his lack of gametime but a good 6Nations and I can't see it continuing

Hope so Stand because when we lack the players we might as well give these players a go, sure it's a risk but if you don't risk with young players you will never get the next Ferris or Henry

Matt Williams didn't rate Henry, preferring instead to recruit Tamati Horua, so Henry didn't break through until his mid 20s.

The Great Aukster wrote:Matt Williams didn't rate Henry, preferring instead to recruit Tamati Horua, so Henry didn't break through until his mid 20s.

That is simply not true infact it was Matt Williams who gave him his chance in 2008-2009 - he started 6 games that year
At the time we had a significantly superior 7 - Pollock and some bloke called Ferris at 6.
Also Horua never played under Williams as he was always injured.
Started 1 and came on as a sub 3 times the following year when McLaughlin was in charge.

In other news Henderson signs a 3 year deal - looks like a central contract to me

As for injuries I believe:
Tuohy - March
Olding - April
Henry - April
Jackson - season over but not out of World Cup
Trimble - season over but not out of World Cup

I would argue if Jacksons season is over so is his RWC. He doesn't have anywhere like the credit Trimble has. Great news on henderson

But Joe Schmidt doesn't trust Madigan to start and only plays Keatley when desperate.

There are plenty more options on the wing.
Both will get game time in the 4 build up games but need to hit the ground running .
The fly half position is a pretty bare cupboard - a fit Jackson is his number 2 fly half.

I reckon it's Jacksons goal kicking that will keep him out of the RWC, should he recover well from his injury. Having little chance to get game time before the World Cup means he has little chance to prove he is a reliable goal kicker, similarly if he gets a start in the pre-season warm-ups for Ireland he will be under pressure not having kicked in match situations on a consistent week-in, week-out basis basically since last season. He's only kicked occasionally this year even in the short periods he has been fit.

Madigan will be in as he can cover centres and change a game off the bench. It's a straight fight between Keatley and Jackson and while I thought Keatley was poor he did kick his goals very well.

Interesting to see Conor Murray doing a lot of placekicking in the warm-up last Saturdy at the Aviva...

It is between Jackson and Keatley I agree I just don't think Schmidt rates Keatley at all - if Jackson is fully fit he will go

Wish I had the belief you do Geoff. I just don't see it. It's a bit of a good news day for ulster. Henderson re-signing! new kit sponsorship (you would imagine more lucrative) and only 500 tickets left for a mid 6N fixture. That's good going.

Let's see this money invested into players at the first chance

Standulstermen wrote:Wish I had the belief you do Geoff. I just don't see it. It's a bit of a good news day for ulster. Henderson re-signing! new kit sponsorship (you would imagine more lucrative) and only 500 tickets left for a mid 6N fixture. That's good going.

Let's see this money invested into players at the first chance

A new contract for Big Nick will probably be announced next week now

geoff999rugby wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Matt Williams didn't rate Henry, preferring instead to recruit Tamati Horua, so Henry didn't break through until his mid 20s.

That is simply not true infact it was Matt Williams who gave him his chance in 2008-2009 - he started 6 games that year
At the time we had a significantly superior 7 - Pollock and some bloke called Ferris at 6.
Also Horua never played under Williams as he was always injured.
Started 1 and came on as a sub 3 times the following year when McLaughlin was in charge.

I didn't say Williams didn't give him a chance - I said that he didn't rate him. That was the year after Best and Wilson left and should have been perfect for Henry to break through as he was consistently making big waves in the AIL (again). Williams preferred Matt McCullough, Pollock, Dawson and Diack and it was only after a load of indifferent results when Ulster were out of everything that Williams finally had to bow to media pressure to bring Henry in (primarily as an 8). Once in he wasn't left out of the squad for the rest of the season.

Regards Jackson I'm not sure Schmidt will actually take more than one specialist flyhalf. He probably only has 13 backs in his squad and judging by his repeated selection of Jones/Boss he intends to take two specialist 15s and 3 scrumhalves. He will also take Sexton, Henshaw, Payne, and Bowe to leave four places. The other starting wing will be Trimble or Zebo but both will go so that leaves two places. One of them has to cover centre and one cover 10. I'd say Olding will be his centre choice who can also cover 10 (3rd) and Madigan will be his 10 backup who can also cover centre (4th).
So I can't see either Jackson or Keatley making the squad unless Sexton has to be sent home.

The Great Aukster wrote:Regards Jackson I'm not sure Schmidt will actually take more than one specialist flyhalf. He probably only has 13 backs in his squad and judging by his repeated selection of Jones/Boss he intends to take two specialist 15s and 3 scrumhalves. He will also take Sexton, Henshaw, Payne, and Bowe to leave four places. The other starting wing will be Trimble or Zebo but both will go so that leaves two places. One of them has to cover centre and one cover 10. I'd say Olding will be his centre choice who can also cover 10 (3rd) and Madigan will be his 10 backup who can also cover centre (4th).
So I can't see either Jackson or Keatley making the squad unless Sexton has to be sent home.

Aukster if Payne goes he has another specialist 15 plus in Henshaw, Olding and Madigan there are more than enough options to cover. I'm not saying your wrong but the rules for squad selection for the RWC may mean a different approach is required compared to the 6N but theres a lot of rugby to be played before then

He will probably have to bring a second 10 because the rules for the world cup mean that if a player picks up an injury, they have to leave the squad and so that is the end of their tournament. As a key player in the team, if Sexton picked up a small injury at the start of the world cup, he'd be out and couldn't come back later. I'd imagine Keatley or Jackson will go with Madigan the utility centre/fullback who can provide bench cover.

marty2086 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Regards Jackson I'm not sure Schmidt will actually take more than one specialist flyhalf. He probably only has 13 backs in his squad and judging by his repeated selection of Jones/Boss he intends to take two specialist 15s and 3 scrumhalves. He will also take Sexton, Henshaw, Payne, and Bowe to leave four places. The other starting wing will be Trimble or Zebo but both will go so that leaves two places. One of them has to cover centre and one cover 10. I'd say Olding will be his centre choice who can also cover 10 (3rd) and Madigan will be his 10 backup who can also cover centre (4th).
So I can't see either Jackson or Keatley making the squad unless Sexton has to be sent home.

Aukster if Payne goes he has another specialist 15 plus in Henshaw, Olding and Madigan there are more than enough options to cover. I'm not saying your wrong but the rules for squad selection for the RWC may mean a different approach is required compared to the 6N but theres a lot of rugby to be played before then

I understand that Marty, but Joe isn't giving anyone else time at 15 in his selections apart from Jones (whom he made captain of the Wolfhounds). Why persist including Jones in his squads and then not use him, unless he wants him purely as FB cover in a restricted panel?
It's all well and good moving a player like Payne to 15 if Kearney is injured but then someone has to cover 13, so now at least two positions are affected by one injury, so does Joe compound that further by moving Henshaw to 13 or have more centre cover in the squad? Jones will be playing 15 in training and Joe seems to like straight swaps that don't impinge on his game plans.

Sin é wrote:He will probably have to bring a second 10 because the rules for the world cup mean that if a player picks up an injury, they have to leave the squad and so that is the end of their tournament. As a key player in the team, if Sexton picked up a small injury at the start of the world cup, he'd be out and couldn't come back later. I'd imagine Keatley or Jackson will go with Madigan the utility centre/fullback who can provide bench cover.

If a player picks up an injury he doesn't have to leave the squad. He sits out the next game(s) and returns when he is fit. So Sexton would simply stay in the squad and Madigan would start at 10. Madigan isn't great but neither Jackson nor Keatley are so far ahead of him to warrant inclusion. If Sexton picked up a tournament-ending injury one of them would be called in anyway. I'd back Madigan to be fine against Canada and Romania, and the difference between him and Jackson/Keatley wouldn't be the difference in the Italian result either. So the only scenario where they would be of any major benefit to the starting squad would be if Sexton picked up a big enough knock to keep him out of the France game but not big enough to keep him out of the quarter-final. In which case could Jackson or Keatley steer Ireland to victory anyway never mind Madigan?
Surely there can be no room for passengers in the 30-man squad that stand little chance of making a real contribution unless in exceptional circumstances?

Felix Jones being in the 6N 23 is not an indication that he will be in the World Cup squad.
He is a 'break the glass in case of emergency option'.
Only if Kearney is injured will he go - in that case it makes perfect sense making him part of the build up to the World Cup.
What Schmidt doesn't want is Kearney getting injured and then having to bring a player in from the cold.

Exactly the same applied to TOD, if Henry is fully fit he will be nowhere near the squad, if he isn't TOD is in.

The backs will be (assuming full fitness all round):
Murray - any 2 from Reddan, Boss, Marmion
Sexton, Madigan and 1 of Jackson, Keatley (I am as certain as I can be it will be Jackson if fully fit)
Payne, Henshaw, Kearney, Bowe
2 more wingers - probably Zebo, Trimble, maybe Kearney
1 utility back from Earls, Fitzgerald, Olding, McFadden

The Great Aukster wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Matt Williams didn't rate Henry, preferring instead to recruit Tamati Horua, so Henry didn't break through until his mid 20s.

That is simply not true infact it was Matt Williams who gave him his chance in 2008-2009 - he started 6 games that year
At the time we had a significantly superior 7 - Pollock and some bloke called Ferris at 6.
Also Horua never played under Williams as he was always injured.
Started 1 and came on as a sub 3 times the following year when McLaughlin was in charge.

I didn't say Williams didn't give him a chance - I said that he didn't rate him. That was the year after Best and Wilson left and should have been perfect for Henry to break through as he was consistently making big waves in the AIL (again). Williams preferred Matt McCullough, Pollock, Dawson and Diack and it was only after a load of indifferent results when Ulster were out of everything that Williams finally had to bow to media pressure to bring Henry in (primarily as an 8). Once in he wasn't left out of the squad for the rest of the season.

I don't buy that either.
Henry had played 0 seconds for Ulster prior to that season.
The first choice backrow that season was Ferris, Diack (newly arrived from SA), Pollock
At that time Henry was inferior to all three in their respective positions
Dawson was the backup 7 - he actually played less games than Henry that year
McCullough was the first choice backup 6/8 and at that time was understandably ahead of Henry.

Henry was the new kid on the block and in truth nothing special as an 6/8 (only played 1 game at 7 that year)
What he did do, and did do superbly was reinvent himself as a 7 after Pollocks injury and Dawsons retirement.

The Henry we saw then was not the Henry we see now.
'Media pressure' for a 24 year old who had never played for the Province - don't think so

Tight head update

Neither Lutton or Fitzpatrick are going to have their contracts renewed - both up in 2016.
Don't know if either going early.
Ryans contract is also up them - maybe he will become 3rd choice.

I can only assume that Bronson Ross is guaranteed a new contract this summer given the above

If Felix Jones was to go it will be no place for Earls, Fitzgerald, Olding, McFadden rather than a backup fly half

Have I missed something in regards to Lutton, he looked very useful last year so why is he not near the squad and why would we be not renewing on him?

Clarke doesn't like him - nothing more nothing less.
No idea why

The cynic in me says it was because Clarke failed to spot him as a kid
Clarke may be a good forwards coach but he can be a bit of a d!ck

As aside neither Doak or Clarke has a contract for next year

Without being disrespectful to Clarke if he can't leave that stuff at the door when he comes to work then he doesn't deserve to be a professional coach so good that he doesn't have a contract for next year, you won't go anywhere with people like that

The Great Aukster wrote:

Sin é wrote:He will probably have to bring a second 10 because the rules for the world cup mean that if a player picks up an injury, they have to leave the squad and so that is the end of their tournament. As a key player in the team, if Sexton picked up a small injury at the start of the world cup, he'd be out and couldn't come back later. I'd imagine Keatley or Jackson will go with Madigan the utility centre/fullback who can provide bench cover.

If a player picks up an injury he doesn't have to leave the squad. He sits out the next game(s) and returns when he is fit. So Sexton would simply stay in the squad and Madigan would start at 10. Madigan isn't great but neither Jackson nor Keatley are so far ahead of him to warrant inclusion. If Sexton picked up a tournament-ending injury one of them would be called in anyway. I'd back Madigan to be fine against Canada and Romania, and the difference between him and Jackson/Keatley wouldn't be the difference in the Italian result either. So the only scenario where they would be of any major benefit to the starting squad would be if Sexton picked up a big enough knock to keep him out of the France game but not big enough to keep him out of the quarter-final. In which case could Jackson or Keatley steer Ireland to victory anyway never mind Madigan?
Surely there can be no room for passengers in the 30-man squad that stand little chance of making a real contribution unless in exceptional circumstances?

He doesn't have to leave the squad, but if you want to bring someone in, the player does have to go. As well as that, you cannot bring someone in to train with the team unless you drop someone through injury. (this rule is so that there is a level playing field between the bigger and smaller rugby nations - the smaller ones might not have the depth or finances that the larger ones don - different to the 6Ns when they can chop and change throughout the tournament).

It would be very difficult to bring in an outhalf who would not be training with the squad - its a key position. Think of it this way - how confident would you be of bringing either Ian Keatley or Paddy Jackson into a world cup semi final having not trained with possibly a week's training with the squad?

Looking to the future as well, I don't think it would be any harm anyway to have a young outhalf like Jackson maybe experiencing a world in preparation for world cup in Japan.

geoff999rugby wrote:Felix Jones being in the 6N 23 is not an indication that he will be in the World Cup squad.
He is a 'break the glass in case of emergency option'.
Only if Kearney is injured will he go - in that case it makes perfect sense making him part of the build up to the World Cup.
What Schmidt doesn't want is Kearney getting injured and then having to bring a player in from the cold.

Exactly the same applied to TOD, if Henry is fully fit he will be nowhere near the squad, if he isn't TOD is in.

Schmidt is being very cautious with players coming back from injury. Keith Earls says that Schmidt wants him to really prove he isn't going to break down before he will involve him.

the42.ie wrote:It was a relief for Earls to reach a level of performance close to his best so he can show his national coach that he is ready to be considered for selection.

“My biggest problem was Joe having confidence in my knee and myself having confidence in my knee,” Earls said.

“The last couple of times I was in camp I ended up breaking down and eventually I had to get an operation so the more game time I get gives more confidence to both of us.”

I'd imagine Luke Fitz is in a similar situation. Fitz is on the wing for Leinster this weekend. If they both come through their provincial games this weekend I'd imagine they will be in the matchday 23/24 for England (instead of Jones).

Felix Jones provides great training as he is very good at kick and chase.

geoff999rugby wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Matt Williams didn't rate Henry, preferring instead to recruit Tamati Horua, so Henry didn't break through until his mid 20s.

That is simply not true infact it was Matt Williams who gave him his chance in 2008-2009 - he started 6 games that year
At the time we had a significantly superior 7 - Pollock and some bloke called Ferris at 6.
Also Horua never played under Williams as he was always injured.
Started 1 and came on as a sub 3 times the following year when McLaughlin was in charge.

I didn't say Williams didn't give him a chance - I said that he didn't rate him. That was the year after Best and Wilson left and should have been perfect for Henry to break through as he was consistently making big waves in the AIL (again). Williams preferred Matt McCullough, Pollock, Dawson and Diack and it was only after a load of indifferent results when Ulster were out of everything that Williams finally had to bow to media pressure to bring Henry in (primarily as an 8). Once in he wasn't left out of the squad for the rest of the season.

I don't buy that either.
Henry had played 0 seconds for Ulster prior to that season.
The first choice backrow that season was Ferris, Diack (newly arrived from SA), Pollock
At that time Henry was inferior to all three in their respective positions
Dawson was the backup 7 - he actually played less games than Henry that year
McCullough was the first choice backup 6/8 and at that time was understandably ahead of Henry.

Henry was the new kid on the block and in truth nothing special as an 6/8 (only played 1 game at 7 that year)
What he did do, and did do superbly was reinvent himself as a 7 after Pollocks injury and Dawsons retirement.

The Henry we saw then was not the Henry we see now.
'Media pressure' for a 24 year old who had never played for the Province - don't think so

Matt Williams media conscious? Maybe that is stretching it too far.

Sin é wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

Sin é wrote:He will probably have to bring a second 10 because the rules for the world cup mean that if a player picks up an injury, they have to leave the squad and so that is the end of their tournament. As a key player in the team, if Sexton picked up a small injury at the start of the world cup, he'd be out and couldn't come back later. I'd imagine Keatley or Jackson will go with Madigan the utility centre/fullback who can provide bench cover.

If a player picks up an injury he doesn't have to leave the squad. He sits out the next game(s) and returns when he is fit. So Sexton would simply stay in the squad and Madigan would start at 10. Madigan isn't great but neither Jackson nor Keatley are so far ahead of him to warrant inclusion. If Sexton picked up a tournament-ending injury one of them would be called in anyway. I'd back Madigan to be fine against Canada and Romania, and the difference between him and Jackson/Keatley wouldn't be the difference in the Italian result either. So the only scenario where they would be of any major benefit to the starting squad would be if Sexton picked up a big enough knock to keep him out of the France game but not big enough to keep him out of the quarter-final. In which case could Jackson or Keatley steer Ireland to victory anyway never mind Madigan?
Surely there can be no room for passengers in the 30-man squad that stand little chance of making a real contribution unless in exceptional circumstances?

He doesn't have to leave the squad, but if you want to bring someone in, the player does have to go. As well as that, you cannot bring someone in to train with the team unless you drop someone through injury. (this rule is so that there is a level playing field between the bigger and smaller rugby nations - the smaller ones might not have the depth or finances that the larger ones don - different to the 6Ns when they can chop and change throughout the tournament).

It would be very difficult to bring in an outhalf who would not be training with the squad - its a key position. Think of it this way - how confident would you be of bringing either Ian Keatley or Paddy Jackson into a world cup semi final having not trained with possibly a week's training with the squad?

Looking to the future as well, I don't think it would be any harm anyway to have a young outhalf like Jackson maybe experiencing a world in preparation for world cup in Japan.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that, but it's a question of chance. Does Joe look upon the doomsday scenario of having a player in the squad whom he never intends to use but is only there just in case Sexton gets injured. Madigan is far more likely to be on the bench for the big games than either Jackson or Keatley (if they were in the squad) simply because he offers more utility and impact, therefore he is far more likely to be starting the minnows games to get gametime and give Sexton a rest. The result would be that Jackson/Keatley would be in the squad and the closest they would come to involvement would be on the bench for Romania. Having that questionable insurance policy is a big luxury when the premium to be paid is a precious squad place.

neilthom7 wrote:Without being disrespectful to Clarke if he can't leave that stuff at the door when he comes to work then he doesn't deserve to be a professional coach so good that he doesn't have a contract for next year, you won't go anywhere with people like that

There are many in Ulster who agree with you - because of that I am not convinced he will be here next year.
Ultimately Kiss will decide I suspect

MISSING: Openside Flanker, blonde hair usually found wearing scrumcap, answers to the name McComish if found please return to nearest ruck

neilthom7 wrote:MISSING: Openside Flanker, blonde hair usually found wearing scrumcap, answers to the name McComish if found please return to nearest ruck

Check in front of the nearest mirror

marty2086 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:MISSING: Openside Flanker, blonde hair usually found wearing scrumcap, answers to the name McComish if found please return to nearest ruck

Check in front of the nearest mirror

You are right Marty he was sitting here beside me the whole match and I didn't even notice explains why he wasn't hitting any rucks

neilthom7 wrote:Have I missed something in regards to Lutton, he looked very useful last year so why is he not near the squad and why would we be not renewing on him?

Maybe we should petition to bring back Ricky.

In other news Doak is so far out of his depth. We really are a farce at the moment

toml wrote:In other news Doak is so far out of his depth. We really are a farce at the moment

What are you basing this on Toml?

Ulster general play, ulsters lack of discipline. Either it's the players or the coaching but we are starting to look as unorganised as before McLaughlin, although we are getting better results

I can't believe we are still near the top of the league despite having a poor season. Every other team in the competition seems to be playing crap as well.

I really hope the quality of the league improves next season..

Well in fairness our backrow is not good or balanced at the minute, we have an openside who hits no rucks and 2 number 8's who are not used hitting them. It's weird Leinster have like 7 quality back rows and I'd argue we can't manage 3 if you count Henderson at Lock. Faloon will definitely be a help next season maybe we will bring Dow through and the other young players as well. We have a front row who are great in the scrums but minus Best not as good round the park as what we had so we lose a bit there as well which we have to make up in the back row. Humphrey's has gone off the boil recently as well maybe Stanley will come in and do a job for us there but we will have to do a lot better in coming games.

toml wrote:Ulster general play, ulsters lack of discipline. Either it's the players or the coaching but we are starting to look as unorganised as before McLaughlin, although we are getting better results

Players are judged on performance, coaches are judged on results.

Coaches are judged on the success or failure of the structures they implement for the players to follow, their ability to address issues with specific problem areas their team struggles with and of course results.

Its not the coaches fault that Humphreys had an absolute 'mare or that he has to rely on players with the quality of McComish... but the penalty count and the ineffectiveness at the breakdown are ongoing problems that have not been addressed. The penalty count comes from that lack of presence at the breakdown and an inability to effect it legally, its part of the same wider problem. These issues can be partially attributed to the paucity of back row options. But the coaching of the breakdown specifically needs to improve.

It strikes me that this is the purview of the forwards coach especially.

Our backs coaching looks laboured as well. When you look at some of the lines we are trying we were able to execute these over the last couple of seasons but they look disjointed and sloppy now. Is that because there is too much on Doaks plate? I don't know but we need new blood and it can't come soon enough.

A lot of blame should fall on the players though. Not that he did anything specifically wrong tonight but when I consider Gilroy is a 100 cap ulstermen the lack of nous displayed worries me, and that goes for others too. As I mentioned in the match thread I was stunned that we had the wit not to contest the final lineout. It's a rarity to see that clarity of thought

Right so we are agreed all we need to change is the coaches and the players and we will be flying lol

Lately a lot of our passes have been missing their target, or they just make the receiver check their stride to take them and thats affecting our backs. The distribution from the halfbacks has been too sloppy. We don't have many moves either. Last weeks try for Andrew Warwick came off the kind of simple move I'd like to see more of.

Anyone else notice Pienaar giving the forwards their orders for the final scrum? Also, last week I think he gave them a rocket for lack of protection for the half-backs. It isn't something I can say I've really noticed before, but great to see him assuming the role when there's a lack of clear leadership from elsewhere.

Arguably the only first choice back who has been available all season is Cave, while most of the rest have had significant absences. Ludik is new to the team and he has had to be moved all over the place. Humphreys is new to this team, older and even more flakey. It isn't at all surprising to me that the backs aren't cutting up defences. Above all Ulster (and Ireland) are seriously missing Trimble. He forces his way into a game with a big hit or a chase or an intercept or midfield carries... you can't take a player of that quality out of the side and not expect to feel the pain.

Similarly Chris Henry has been missed big style. I do agree with Notch though that Clarke has a lot to answer for, because Ulster are too often losing the breakdown battle for it to be attributed solely to the absence of Henry.

Regarding penalties conceded the last ten games have been (Ulster first then opponent)
15 - 5 , 6 - 10 , 7 - 8 , 11 - 9 , 8 - 8 = 47 - 40 (last five)
6 - 12 , 12 - 10 , 12 - 9 , 5 - 10 , 7 - 12 = 42 - 53 (previous 5)

89 Ulster - 93 Opponents

Is that a sign the discipline has gone this season? There are five games where Ulster have conceded fewer penalties than their opposition and four games where they've conceded more. The Edinburgh game is an aberration where Hodges penalised Ulster three times as heavily as the home side - some of those were very questionable but that is where on field leadership needs to kick in. Ulster just don't have the nous in the forwards to take a step back and regroup in that situation.

Just a word to say that Herring is the most undervalued signing made in the last five years. Invaluable at times. He's no Rory Best but he's a far better second choice hooker than a lot of clubs have. He has served us very well and gives his all! Long may he remain at Ulster.

On Clarke, early doors our forwards were going pretty well. Our scrum was usually dominant and our maul destroyed teams like Glasgow. I've never considered kiss to bee a forwards coach but we do seem to have gone downhill since he left (same can be said of other aspects to I suppose)

Our forwards were ok at the start of the season because the discipline and culture installed by Mueller was still there.

As the season has worn on that impact has seeped away - Clarke has done nothing to warrant praise

Standulstermen wrote:On Clarke, early doors our forwards were going pretty well. Our scrum was usually dominant and our maul destroyed teams like Glasgow. I've never considered kiss to bee a forwards coach but we do seem to have gone downhill since he left (same can be said of other aspects to I suppose)

I've got no problem with the coaching of the scrum and maul, which has been generally good. Or the lineout for that matter. But the breakdown has been poor. Clarke has been doing a good job on the set pieces but whether it's he or someone else who is responsible for the breakdown, that area is not going well at all.

It's true that Andrew Trimble and Chris Henry would make a massive difference to this side. Trimble has the best kick chase in Ireland and Henry is a superb breakdown forward. But we just have to adapt, and we aren't adapting well to their absence. We won't see Trimble in white until after the World Cup and Henry, well, nobody really knows when we'll see him for sure. His return to playing can't come quickly enough.