Ulster 2014/2015, Part 3

First topic message reminder :

Continue to discuss Ulsters lack of back row options and season in general

Sin é wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

sin e wrote:Henderson has started one international game as a lock v. Argentina. He isn't in the reckoning as a starter lock for Ireland until he takes it seriously. He is a very talented player. Hope he doesn't waste it.

Anyone who is stupid enough to think Henderson doesn't take his career seriously is being so stupid they cant be taken seriously themselves

Bye Bye Sin e toodle off now

I didn't say he doesn't take his career seriously. I'm saying that if he is going to be Paul O'Connell's replacement, he is going to have to take doing the detail, analysis etc. a lot more serious. He will be fine as a number 2 or backrower. If he put the effort that Toner has put in, he could end up being better than Paul O'Connell.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!

I mentioned it a few weeks ago (treviso?). There was one ruck where Williams hit it, stepped back a few meters, hit it again, stepped back... I think 4/5 times. It is pretty dangerous. I don't think it should be penalised as the law stands. But I have to say, it looks a little nasty, a little thuggish perhaps?

If I was standing over a ruck i daresay I would see it as a disadvantage to the game if a 19 stone player is allowed to make a run up and charge his shoulder into my shoulder/neck/head.

Like I say, the rules currently permit it - but I'm not sure I like it!

Compare William's, and his limited (and dangerous?) use of bodyweight and high impact collisions at ruck time to the prime example which Notch highlighted of Henderson at the weekend.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/B_NRBBNXAAABYcU.mp4

Now that's rugby! Technigue, strenth, precision and effective. That's clearing out that I can admire as opposed to an overweight wrecking ball who is in danger of appearing violent or at least reckless to the rugby authorities.

geoff998rugby wrote:For the record I dont thing Henderson will start, all, or maybe even the majority of games, for Ireland next year but Foley sure as hell wont.

As I said early there are only 4 shows in town next year - Toner, Tuohy, Henderson and if fit Ryan.

Foley, Kearney are next in line, and in case of emergency, McCarthy as an old hand.
The following year de Merwe will be gone and Henderson will be both a regular Ulster and Ireland lock.

Henderson has 3 years on Foley, 6 on Toner, 7 on Tuohy and 8 on Ryan and a hell of a lot more talent than any of them.

Looked up Nagle to indulge Sin e - the man has played no rugby this year, he only started 2 games for Munster the year before and only played in 2 games for Newcastle in the same year.
There are, as yet, no indication of him playing top flight rugby next year.
He is 26+ - sorry he may get a contract with the likes of Newcastle, Connacht or a championship side but international rugby is beyond him.

Your research is very poor.

Not that there weren’t opportunities to continue with rugby.

In fairness to Frankie Sheahan [Nagle's agent], because I’d say it was a hard sell, I got offers in France, England, Ireland and New Zealand to play on, but the more I looked into the opportunities outside rugby, the more I got excited about them.

“I just said I’d take the break. Funnily enough, at the moment I’m 100% fit and I think that’s a good way to come out and take a break,” continues Nagle.

In the end, there were three or four clubs I would have considered. Three of those clubs said that if I wanted to consider coming back in a year’s time, I could talk to them.

http://www.the42.ie/ian-nagle-munster-break-rugby-1579266-Jul2014/

Two players for Ulster citied and you lot were on here trying to tell me that you are not a niggly team :-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/31717203

If this was Liam Williams no doubt you lot would be all over it again.

LordDowlais wrote:Two players for Ulster citied and you lot were on here trying to tell me that you are not a niggly team :-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/31717203

If this was Liam Williams no doubt you lot would be all over it again.

Is Liam Williams the only player Welsh fans know these days? Or is he just an overly dirty player?

Sin e no mention of the quality of the team involved - nothing wrong with my research

I lived in Australia once and was offered a place in a team - doesn't mean I was of international or Provincial standard or anywhere near it.

If he does come back he will not be in the first XV of any of the 3 main Provinces and as such not in consideration for International selection whcih was the original point.

Overhype down Munster way.. which is what is happening with Foley now.

Looks like the richly deserved Ravenhill Pro12 Final is selling well.

Pro12 tweeting that there's less than 100 seated general sale tickets left.

Well done, Ulster fans! We really are the biz.

LordDowlais wrote:Two players for Ulster citied and you lot were on here trying to tell me that you are not a niggly team :-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/31717203

If this was Liam Williams no doubt you lot would be all over it again.

If you actually watched the incidents as opposed to just trolling you would see the Marshall one is a joke and the Wilson one is something that happens in just about every game

marty2086 wrote:
Is Liam Williams the only player Welsh fans know these days? Or is he just an overly dirty player?

He's the one Welsh fans mention by name because, objectively, everyone knows he's the dirtiest player in the Pro12. So a useful point of comparison.

Don Alfonso wrote:Looks like the richly deserved Ravenhill Pro12 Final is selling well.

Pro12 tweeting that there's less than 100 seated general sale tickets left.

Well done, Ulster fans! We really are the biz.

A fair few of those tickets brought by Munster and Leinster fans I understand but even so you are absolutely correct.

That was why Ravenhill selected a guaranteed success regardless of who makes the final.
Pro 12 simply could not risk 3 men and a dog turning up to a game outside Ireland

I was just saying that's all, it seems there is always controversy when Ulster are playing. It is strange that there is aways an incident with Ulster, yet you lot always seem to find excuses.

LordDowlais wrote:I was just saying that's all, it seems there is always controversy when Ulster are playing. It is strange that there is aways an incident with Ulster, yet you lot always seem to find excuses.

Everyone loves a good generalisation LordDowlais. Don't worry about reading every comment in the thread before assuming a general rule about Ulster fans reactions.

clivemcl wrote:Everyone loves a good generalisation LordDowlais. Don't worry about reading every comment in the thread before assuming a general rule about Ulster fans reactions.

Just like everyone was generalising about Liam Williams ?

Can you generalise about one person?

LordDowlais wrote:Two players for Ulster citied and you lot were on here trying to tell me that you are not a niggly team :-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/31717203

If this was Liam Williams no doubt you lot would be all over it again.

I absolutely want us to be a niggly team. Legally....maybe with just a touch of the dark arts.

It's you lot that keep bringing Liam Williams into discussions like this. I'm thinking you lot get off on being outraged at our criticism of Williams. Admit it. You love it

Is there some kind of a bet going on amongst some Welsh fans to see if they can mention Liam Williams on every Ulster thread?

Even when he is not playing?

LordDowlais wrote:Two players for Ulster citied and you lot were on here trying to tell me that you are not a niggly team :-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/31717203

If this was Liam Williams no doubt you lot would be all over it again.

Even Liam Williams wouldn't deserve to be cited for this petty nonsense

LordDowlais wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Everyone loves a good generalisation LordDowlais. Don't worry about reading every comment in the thread before assuming a general rule about Ulster fans reactions.

Just like everyone was generalising about Liam Williams ?

Yea, i guess some people generalise about Liam Williams. I havn't though.


But what are you saying? We are all as bad as each other. We all wear our own version of rose tinted glasses. What's the point if that's the case.

I'm at least trying to break the mould and be fair.

Wilson's swinging arm was reckless at best. And like I said above, I'm not in favour of William's hitting rucks in the way he does (despite it being within the rules).

If everyone could just wise up, open there eyes and try to grasp an appreciation of fairness, then the sporting world would be much kinder.

But of course, I'm living in a fantasy land! And if we weren't all bias, this place might not be as interesting for some who love a good argument.

Marshall banned for 5 weeks!!!!!

MrsP wrote:Is there some kind of a bet going on amongst some Welsh fans to see if they can mention Liam Williams on every Ulster thread?

Even when he is not playing?

Ah, MrsP,just the person, I have been waiting for you to respond to one of my posts on here, as you are one of the trailblazers on here regarding health and safety and concussions in rugby and the what not. Anyway, as regards to the Ben Te'o citing, he lead with his forearm into the face of Sam Davies, now barring in mind he has a massive plaster cast on that forearm, and he did the same to Sam Warburton a few weeks before, both players left the field and did not come back on because of concussion, if Ben Te'o needs that much bandage on his forearm, then should he really be on the field in the first place ? What is stopping players in the future taking the field with extra padding on their forearms to smash players that are in your way ?

In fact, I am going to start a thread on just that topic, feel free to add your point of view.

And an entry point of 8 weeks. Who is on these panels! 

How long did doc and the Toulon bloke get for kicking Olding?

geoff998rugby wrote:Sin e no mention of the quality of the team involved - nothing wrong with my research

I lived in Australia once and was offered a place in a team - doesn't mean I was of international or Provincial standard or anywhere near it.

If he does come back he will not be in the first XV of any of the 3 main Provinces and as such not in consideration for International selection whcih was the original point.

Overhype down Munster way.. which is what is happening with Foley now.

Were they going to pay you?

Nagle did get offers from Ireland, so we know the standard he turned down.

I would never have posted about Munster players except for your overhyping of Henderson and your dismissal of all things Munster. I haven't been over hyping any Munster player. I have just pulling you up on the ridiculous claims you make about them.

Wilson must be bricking it, Marshall was far less of an incident than his.......

World rugby need to get their house in order. 

Olding has been concussed twice by kicks to the head this season. 

Heineken Cup - 3 week ban
Pro12 - 2 week ban (although they acknowledged doc got torso and chest mostly)


Now we have a scenario where the entry point has suddenly jumped to 8 weeks with a five week ban. Why have they doubled the sentence?

After listening to representations by and on behalf of the player, and viewing television footage of the incident, the committee found Marshall "had committed an act of foul play which would have warranted a red card".

So are they saying it was deliberate?

geoff998rugby wrote: the Wilson one is something that happens in just about every game

Players get punched in the face in every game?

Swinging arms to clear out happen in every game

geoff998rugby wrote:Swinging arms to clear out happen in every game

And if they catch a face, they get cited.

So it's effectively a 3 game ban for Marshall. He won't play until after the Connacht game.

MrsP wrote:Is there some kind of a bet going on amongst some Welsh fans to see if they can mention Liam Williams on every Ulster thread?

Even when he is not playing?

It gets ever so slightly annoying, but it seems his name has to appear in any thread regarding discipline (I'm sure you remember earlier in the season it being the other way around).

marty2086 wrote:

After listening to representations by and on behalf of the player, and viewing television footage of the incident, the committee found Marshall "had committed an act of foul play which would have warranted a red card".

So are they saying it was deliberate?

Under Law10, I don't think the act has to be deliberate. In Marshall's case it may have been deemed dangerous, and so an act of foul play. Still, I think it's very harsh.

1 week ban for the strike to the face.

So Ulster should have spent the last 17 minutes down to 13 players.

LordDowlais wrote:

MrsP wrote:Is there some kind of a bet going on amongst some Welsh fans to see if they can mention Liam Williams on every Ulster thread?

Even when he is not playing?

Ah, MrsP,just the person, I have been waiting for you to respond to one of my posts on here, as you are one of the trailblazers on here regarding health and safety and concussions in rugby and the what not. Anyway, as regards to the Ben Te'o citing, he lead with his forearm into the face of Sam Davies, now barring in mind he has a massive plaster cast on that forearm, and he did the same to Sam Warburton a few weeks before, both players left the field and did not come back on because of concussion, if Ben Te'o needs that much bandage on his forearm, then should he really be on the field in the first place ? What is stopping players in the future taking the field with extra padding on their forearms to smash players that are in your way ?

In fact, I am going to start a thread on just that topic, feel free to add your point of view.

Unfortunately I was away all weekend and saw no rugby whatsoever so I have not seen the incidents you are talking about. I have only seen the short clips posted here about the Ulster guys. I was having the scores of matches texted to me by MrP.

I would worry about a player wearing a guard which was causing injury to other players. Is it the bandage or the action that is the problem.

Chunky Norwich wrote:So Ulster should have spent the last 17 minutes down to 13 players.

We'd still have won.

Chunky Norwich wrote:So Ulster should have spent the last 17 minutes down to 13 players.

Impossible to say really. The first sending off would have changed the game, and so the 2nd incident wouldn't likely have happened. Look on the bright side. At least we should have Wilson back to face Connacht

Edit: Not that beating Connacht is a foregone conclusion....

Here is the kick.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/luke-marshall-ban-five-weeks-head-kick/16208

brain dead from Luke, sadly looked delibrate. What is with Ulster these days. They have had some very harsh calls against them, but just plain dumb things like this just compound them. They are quickly getting a rep as a dirty team (justified or not), incidents like this simply don't help the cause.

the-goon wrote:Here is the kick.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/luke-marshall-ban-five-weeks-head-kick/16208

brain dead from Luke, sadly looked delibrate. What is with Ulster these days. They have had some very harsh calls against them, but just plain dumb things like this just compound them. They are quickly getting a rep as a dirty team (justified or not), incidents like this simply don't help the cause.

They have always been a little niggly to say the least.

I don't agree that it does look deliberate. My first thoughts were that he positioned the offending boot in order to turn, but having looked again, I think he did try and nudge the ball. Unfortunate, but accidents happen.

LordDowlais wrote:

the-goon wrote:Here is the kick.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/luke-marshall-ban-five-weeks-head-kick/16208

brain dead from Luke, sadly looked delibrate. What is with Ulster these days. They have had some very harsh calls against them, but just plain dumb things like this just compound them. They are quickly getting a rep as a dirty team (justified or not), incidents like this simply don't help the cause.

They have always been a little niggly to say the least.

While this season is descending into chaos and farce, you're talking nonsense. I thnk we won the Fair Play award a couple of times in the last few years, and before Jared Payne, our last red card was Ryan Caldwell in 2009.

This is why it's difficult to engage you properly, in a grown-up manner. You;re just so blithely, factually wrong on so many simple, verifiable things. Obvious troll, as they say, is obvious.

the-goon wrote:Here is the kick.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/luke-marshall-ban-five-weeks-head-kick/16208

brain dead from Luke, sadly looked delibrate. What is with Ulster these days. They have had some very harsh calls against them, but just plain dumb things like this just compound them. They are quickly getting a rep as a dirty team (justified or not), incidents like this simply don't help the cause.

I would say that they are quickly losing their tag for being a like-able side for sure. And three bans in two games is pretty much a good justification of them getting a dirty (thuggish even) rep.

Don Alfonso wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

the-goon wrote:Here is the kick.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/luke-marshall-ban-five-weeks-head-kick/16208

brain dead from Luke, sadly looked delibrate. What is with Ulster these days. They have had some very harsh calls against them, but just plain dumb things like this just compound them. They are quickly getting a rep as a dirty team (justified or not), incidents like this simply don't help the cause.

They have always been a little niggly to say the least.

While this season is descending into chaos and farce, you're talking nonsense. I thnk we won the Fair Play award a couple of times in the last few years, and before Jared Payne, our last red card was Ryan Caldwell in 2009.

This is why it's difficult to engage you properly, in a grown-up manner. You;re just so blithely, factually wrong on so many simple, verifiable things. Obvious troll, as they say, is obvious.

Don, those things are in the past. Three players banned in two games is the worst disciplinary record of any team in the Pro12 (or Pro12/Celtic league history)!!!!

Don Alfonso wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

the-goon wrote:Here is the kick.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/luke-marshall-ban-five-weeks-head-kick/16208

brain dead from Luke, sadly looked delibrate. What is with Ulster these days. They have had some very harsh calls against them, but just plain dumb things like this just compound them. They are quickly getting a rep as a dirty team (justified or not), incidents like this simply don't help the cause.

They have always been a little niggly to say the least.

While this season is descending into chaos and farce, you're talking nonsense. I thnk we won the Fair Play award a couple of times in the last few years, and before Jared Payne, our last red card was Ryan Caldwell in 2009.

This is why it's difficult to engage you properly, in a grown-up manner. You;re just so blithely, factually wrong on so many simple, verifiable things. Obvious troll, as they say, is obvious.

Yeh, because thats what I am innit.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

the-goon wrote:Here is the kick.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/luke-marshall-ban-five-weeks-head-kick/16208

brain dead from Luke, sadly looked delibrate. What is with Ulster these days. They have had some very harsh calls against them, but just plain dumb things like this just compound them. They are quickly getting a rep as a dirty team (justified or not), incidents like this simply don't help the cause.

I would say that they are quickly losing their tag for being a like-able side for sure.  And three bans in two games is pretty much a good justification of them getting a dirty (thuggish even) rep.

Yes, I did notice one of the guys on the Scarlets forum describe Ulster as a "scumbag team of thugs". Not a surprise considering the xenophobic moron who posted it, but would at least expect the usually more reasonable posters (and there's a lot of good guys on that site ) to have a sense of perspective. Like you....

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

I would say that they are quickly losing their tag for being a like-able side for sure.  And three bans in two games is pretty much a good justification of them getting a dirty (thuggish even) rep.

Should have been 4........... Nick Williams..

dirty barstewards.

So, Spiderman, what you're saying is, that when Dowlais says "always", he means in the last two games?

What an interesting, counter-inituitive use of the word "always".


I used to take pride in our disciplinary record. (Note - not "reputation". This weird obssession about whether we're "likable" I have no interest in.)

And we're going into meltdown a bit, and it concerns me. Things will be different with Kiss in charge next season, I don't doubt, but we are having real issues. I don't think of us as a dirty team, but I am starting to think of us as a monumentally stupid, rash team. With an extra side order of panic and taking risks on the pitch. We don't have faith in our systems.

But seriously, mate, don't lecture me about talking about "the past" when I'm responding to a post about how we've "always been a little niggly". Not if English is your first language. An awful lot of "always" is actually, y'know, in "the past".

And okay, Dowlais, you're not a troll. Just wrong.

Munchkin wrote:"scumbag team of thugs".

That's a bit strong, I would say more cynical and niggly.

Munchkin wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

the-goon wrote:Here is the kick.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/luke-marshall-ban-five-weeks-head-kick/16208

brain dead from Luke, sadly looked delibrate. What is with Ulster these days. They have had some very harsh calls against them, but just plain dumb things like this just compound them. They are quickly getting a rep as a dirty team (justified or not), incidents like this simply don't help the cause.

I would say that they are quickly losing their tag for being a like-able side for sure.  And three bans in two games is pretty much a good justification of them getting a dirty (thuggish even) rep.

Yes, I did notice one of the guys on the Scarlets forum describe Ulster as a "scumbag team of thugs". Not a surprise considering the xenophobic moron who posted it, but would at least expect the usually more reasonable to have a sense of perspective. Like you....

Funny it there have been similar quotes on the Ulster fans site about their opinions of the Scarlets, but that is what you get on team specific forums.

A team that have had three players banned in two games, all for dangerous/foul play, are going to get a rep for being thugs. It is how things go.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:"scumbag team of thugs".

That's a bit strong, I would say more cynical and niggly.

Oh I can live with niggly. Guess sometimes it's not so much what is said, but how it's said