This is why we love Wayne Barnes.

First topic message reminder :

Review of Wayne Barnes v Ireland 2015:

https://youtu.be/IEuXfewLcuY

Ireland lose again with Barnes as ref. Its getting ridiculous now. 3 wins in the last 13 games v Barnes. Really hope we don't get him for any WC games.

Joe Schmidt also has issues with Barnes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-has-issues-with-wayne-barnes-over-scrum-calls-1.2145742

Graham Henry also suspects something isnt quite right about Barnes' lopsided officiating too

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/31/graham-henrys-final-word-on-suspected-match-fixing-in-rwc-2007/

I was more talking about earlier incidents when Jarvis was moonwalking and still had Barnes eating out of his hand. Check over in the Samson Lee thread what the fans are saying, not singing Jarvis praises. Only reason it was wheeling was because parity on one side and Jarvis plowing the pitch on the other Also where did you hear that about the last scrum? Can't see it from the video.

And I didn't say penalty try, although it could have been! You can clearly see I think it's Charteris on his hands and knees at the front and bottom of a collapsed maul, cynical and Wales had already done it once, with two yellow cards to boot, use your noodle Wayne! Should have been at least another Ireland penalty I'd say, and if it went down going forward towards the Welsh line as it had done in previous incarnations, then penalty try it be.

But like I say you get those some days and others they go against you. Not a conspiracy theory, but don't have no love lost for Barnes either.

SecretFly wrote:Doc.............. too many tries killed England, ironically.  They got into a fever try scoring match with France and kept letting France back into the game because of it.  Had they been somewhat more cautious, they could have kept hitting France with quick assaults then falling back to defend what they got.

The emotion got too much.  Lancaster got his speech wrong before the game.  4 solid tries was all it needed and a few penalties plus robust defending.

Agree. Great observation about Lancaster. I think he is one of those guys who always get it 90% right, but that last 10% is a bridge too far. A more clinical and controlled game was needed.

Sigh.

Yet more people unable to watch a video or listen to what is said.

Maul collapses with the irish players at the front on their backs. They simply tripped up when the back half sheered away and Wales drove.

Final penalty was NOT A SCRUM PENALTY. Offside is quite clearly mentioned.



Of course it has been decided that English posters are no longer entitled to comment on any subject, so ignore everything above.

LondonTiger wrote:Sigh.

Yet more people unable to watch a video or listen to what is said.

Maul collapses with the irish players at the front on their backs. They simply tripped up when the back half sheered away and Wales drove.

Final penalty was NOT A SCRUM PENALTY. Offside is quite clearly mentioned.



Of course it has been decided that English posters are no longer entitled to comment on any subject, so ignore everything above.

Yes, this is true. One of the Irish backs shot up out of the line before the scrum was even in trouble if I remember correctly. Barnes definitely calls it for offside.

LondonTiger wrote:Sigh.

Yet more people unable to watch a video or listen to what is said.

Maul collapses with the irish players at the front on their backs. They simply tripped up when the back half sheered away and Wales drove.

Final penalty was NOT A SCRUM PENALTY. Offside is quite clearly mentioned.



Of course it has been decided that English posters are no longer entitled to comment on any subject, so ignore everything above.

Did I tell you you could post that? Kindly wait for permission first Tiger.

LondonTiger wrote:Sigh.

Yet more people unable to watch a video or listen to what is said.

Maul collapses with the irish players at the front on their backs. They simply tripped up when the back half sheered away and Wales drove.

Final penalty was NOT A SCRUM PENALTY. Offside is quite clearly mentioned.



Of course it has been decided that English posters are no longer entitled to comment on any subject, so ignore everything above.

I'll assume that petulance is directed at other posters, for me post away to your heart's content regardless of your nationality

The Irish players on their backs were part of the maul collapsed around Charteris and someone on the other side I can't see (think it's Mike Philips actually), but then Faletau driving at the near side flying off his feet. You can clearly see Charteris on his hands and knees about three metres out. Its like that prank you pull at school where someone crouches behind your mate and you push them over!

And I assume the offside call was against Ian Madigan, but the time he was offside the Welsh scrum was a vapor. But offside is offside and like I said though my beef was more with the other scrum calls, the maul and the idea of consistency from Mr. Barnes

Marshes, why don't you just get over it?

The Saint wrote:Marshes, why don't you just get over it?

You're alright aren't you Saint, the Irish never get over anything, they are still up in arms over the BOD gate and the Lions, the ball boy from yesteryear, and Neil Back with his hand in the scrum. It's us lot who just have to live with it, and get told us Welsh are the whingers.

Oh God...the Welsh whingers are still going???

Will this thread never end?  Get over it, please.

SecretFly wrote:Oh God...the Welsh whingers are still going???

Will this thread never end?  Get over it, please.

Ah leave them to it Fly. One of their papers had a photo of a Welsh breakfast up after they beat us and by God I'd be a whinger too if all I got to eat in the morning was some mouldy bread and a weak cappuccino.

Engine#4 wrote:Ah leave them to it Fly.  One of their papers had a photo of a Welsh breakfast up after they beat us and by God I'd be a whinger too if all I got to eat in the morning was some mouldy bread and a weak cappuccino.

I know, but it was probably a bit better than the sour grapes your guys were eating the next day. Thank god Italy and France folded like they did for you the following round of games.

None for me Rev, the better team won on the day. I think poor Franno got a shock with the amount of heat he took for predicting a Welsh win though.

Maybe you lads could settle a row for us, while we're all here;

Did winning the title completely vindicate Joe Schmidt's decision to drop Zebo against Scotland? Or did it make much of a difference?

Engine#4 wrote:

None for me Rev, the better team won on the day.  I think poor Franno got a shock with the amount of heat he took for predicting a Welsh win though.

Maybe you lads could settle a row for us, while we're all here;

Did winning the title completely vindicate Joe Schmidt's decision to drop Zebo against Scotland? Or did it make much of a difference?

Don't think it made any difference to be fair. Both Zebo and Fitz are too good for the Scottish.

Thought Fitzgerald played well to be honest, though I agree with SS.

Engine#4 wrote:

None for me Rev, the better team won on the day.  I think poor Franno got a shock with the amount of heat he took for predicting a Welsh win though.

Maybe you lads could settle a row for us, while we're all here;

Did winning the title completely vindicate Joe Schmidt's decision to drop Zebo against Scotland? Or did it make much of a difference?

No difference really. If Schmidt wants to use the kick chase game, he will need Zebo to start.

Luke Fitz needed a start to see how he performed at international level. He did well generally.

Sin é wrote:

Engine#4 wrote:

None for me Rev, the better team won on the day.  I think poor Franno got a shock with the amount of heat he took for predicting a Welsh win though.

Maybe you lads could settle a row for us, while we're all here;

Did winning the title completely vindicate Joe Schmidt's decision to drop Zebo against Scotland? Or did it make much of a difference?

No difference really. If Schmidt wants to use the kick chase game, he will need Zebo to start.

Luke Fitz needed a start to see how he performed at international level. He did well generally.

Good chance Schmidt will go back to Dave Kearney anyway as he played better then both of them last year.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Engine#4 wrote:

None for me Rev, the better team won on the day.  I think poor Franno got a shock with the amount of heat he took for predicting a Welsh win though.

Maybe you lads could settle a row for us, while we're all here;

Did winning the title completely vindicate Joe Schmidt's decision to drop Zebo against Scotland? Or did it make much of a difference?

No difference really. If Schmidt wants to use the kick chase game, he will need Zebo to start.

Luke Fitz needed a start to see how he performed at international level. He did well generally.

Good chance Schmidt will go back to Dave Kearney anyway as he played better then both of them last year.

Did he? Zeebs did exactly what he was asked to do - hit rucks. This is how successful he was!

Top five (of Six Nations) http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/staying-grounded-key-to-irish-success-in-more-ways-than-one-1.2151467

The ground game. Le jeu au sol. And on the leaderboards au sol you’ll find many Irish. Paul O’Connell led the championship in being one of the first three arrivals to an attacking ruck 144 times; his partner Devin Toner was just behind with 140. Third? Peter O’Mahony’s 115. In the backs, Ireland fill four of the top five slots.What were they doing at those rucks? Toner set the pace with 84 ruck cleanouts, well ahead of Yohann Maestri’s 72. In the backs Ireland filled the top four cleanout totals: Jared Payne (42), Simon Zebo (41), Henshaw (35) and Tommy Bowe (32).

This is a low-risk, efficient Irish team. A fantastic kicking game to gain territory supported by a well-executed rucking game to hold ground they have.
Some more tries wouldn’t go amiss, and the knowledge that Jonathan Sexton has kicked just two drop goals in his entire 51-cap Ireland career can grate.
But Ireland have just brought home two championships in two seasons and equalled their all-time winning streak while doing so. These are grand and exciting times. Ahead of this autumn’s World Cup Joe Schmidt’s jeu au sol is doing very nicely indeed.

What a load of waffle. Kearney had a better tournament and you know it. Makes a mockery of all the whinging last season.

GunsGerms wrote:What a load of waffle. Kearney had a better tournament and you know it. Makes a mockery of all the whinging last season.

Ha, thats funny now. Zeebs got so good at 'Joe's workons', he had to drop him because he was going to make a show of everyone else.

Looking at the analysis on the42.ie of Super Rugby, ruck resources maybe a bit passe now. The chiefs have a new tactic of not contesting rucks. Joe's Plan A could be in trouble come the world cup when everyone else starts doing it. Worth a read.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-chiefs-super-rugby-tactics-2013507-Mar2015/

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:What a load of waffle. Kearney had a better tournament and you know it. Makes a mockery of all the whinging last season.

Ha, thats funny now. Zeebs got so good at 'Joe's workons', he had to drop him because he was going to make a show of everyone else.

Looking at the analysis on the42.ie of Super Rugby, ruck resources maybe a bit passe now. The chiefs have a new tactic of not contesting rucks. Joe's Plan A could be in trouble come the world cup when everyone else starts doing it. Worth a read.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-chiefs-super-rugby-tactics-2013507-Mar2015/

That's a fascinating read Sin é. It makes you wonder why teams haven't thought of it before a bit like Ireland's choke tackle and maul defence tactics.

Pete330v2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:What a load of waffle. Kearney had a better tournament and you know it. Makes a mockery of all the whinging last season.

Ha, thats funny now. Zeebs got so good at 'Joe's workons', he had to drop him because he was going to make a show of everyone else.

Looking at the analysis on the42.ie of Super Rugby, ruck resources maybe a bit passe now. The chiefs have a new tactic of not contesting rucks. Joe's Plan A could be in trouble come the world cup when everyone else starts doing it. Worth a read.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-chiefs-super-rugby-tactics-2013507-Mar2015/

That's a fascinating read Sin é. It makes you wonder why teams haven't thought of it before a bit like Ireland's choke tackle and maul defence tactics.

Aren't we lucky we have a thinker like Joe as our coach to potentially implement such a clever idea?

But this tactic is very dependent on the referee following the rule of law. I can also see the attacking team using the under defended post of the non-ruck to make some simple ground. But all great that there is still the search for new ideas in rugby, though they all seem to revolve around defence...

wolfball wrote:

But this tactic is very dependent on the referee following the rule of law. I can also see the attacking team using the under defended post of the non-ruck to make some simple ground. But all great that there is still the search for new ideas in rugby, though they all seem to revolve around defence...

I can see it being quickly negated too IF it becomes a commonplace tactic. A nippy or explosive player might have a field day there.

There's nothing particularly bad about Barnes's refereeing, and looks like he's in pole position amongst the list of named referees for the WC starting September.

I cant think of a worse ref on the elite panel at the moment than Barnes. Hopefully he is given minnow games only where he can do minimal damage. He doesnt deserve anything else.

GunsGerms wrote:I cant think of a worse ref on the elite panel at the moment than Barnes. Hopefully he is given minnow games only where he can do minimal damage. He doesnt deserve anything else.

Yes, yes. Of course.

PMSL.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:What a load of waffle. Kearney had a better tournament and you know it. Makes a mockery of all the whinging last season.

Ha, thats funny now. Zeebs got so good at 'Joe's workons', he had to drop him because he was going to make a show of everyone else.

Looking at the analysis on the42.ie of Super Rugby, ruck resources maybe a bit passe now. The chiefs have a new tactic of not contesting rucks. Joe's Plan A could be in trouble come the world cup when everyone else starts doing it. Worth a read.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-chiefs-super-rugby-tactics-2013507-Mar2015/

Ah I see youv'e nicked my topic that I have already made a thread about a few day ago.

https://www.606v2.com/t58434-i-think-this-is-something-we-need-to-watch-from-the-all-blacks-at-this-wc

You didn't write the article, Dowlais.

are the irish still moaning about the ref!

nathan wrote:are the irish still moaning about the ref!

Yep, every single one of us!

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:What a load of waffle. Kearney had a better tournament and you know it. Makes a mockery of all the whinging last season.

Ha, thats funny now. Zeebs got so good at 'Joe's workons', he had to drop him because he was going to make a show of everyone else.

Looking at the analysis on the42.ie of Super Rugby, ruck resources maybe a bit passe now. The chiefs have a new tactic of not contesting rucks. Joe's Plan A could be in trouble come the world cup when everyone else starts doing it. Worth a read.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-chiefs-super-rugby-tactics-2013507-Mar2015/

Ah I see youv'e nicked my topic that I have already made a thread about a few day ago.

https://www.606v2.com/t58434-i-think-this-is-something-we-need-to-watch-from-the-all-blacks-at-this-wc

I think you'll find Sin mentioned it before your article, Lord (dates?). When I first saw your article, I said to myself 'that lad Lord just stole Sin's scoop from under his bleedin' nose'

Thanks Rory & Fly for watching my back.

LordD -

6 days before you started your thread

Sin é wrote:Thanks Rory & Fly for watching my back.

LordD -

6 days before you started your thread

That horse had long bolted but hey, some people are always trying to steal the limelight

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/31/graham-henrys-final-word-on-suspected-match-fixing-in-rwc-2007/

GunsGerms wrote:http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/31/graham-henrys-final-word-on-suspected-match-fixing-in-rwc-2007/

paranoid twaddle. Barnes penalises McCaw because he is Poopie hot on folk blocking the breakdown

Think your missing the point TJ, the question isnt "why was McCaw penalised?". Its "Why wasnt France penalised?"

No - the point is its paranoid twaddle.

"Several aspects of play, as I noted later in my match report, were perplexing.

For instance:

The All Blacks did a reverse kick-off and forced a ruck. Referee Wayne Barnes immediately penalised Richie McCaw in the first play of the match."

"cotland rubbed in the home advantage by lying to the IRB about their jerseys. They showed the IRB a tournament jersey before the tournament which had lots of black in it. The All Blacks found to their amazement that Scotland was actually playing in a greyish/purplish jersey that was very similar to the gray/black New Zealand away kit.

.....................

The IRB had all the evidence they needed to prosecute Scotland for lying to them (at least one official told me that the matter had been raised) but, in the end, nothing was done. At the very least, Scotland should have had a couple of tournament points deducted from their tally for this gamesmanship which bordered on cheating."

etc etc

paranoid twaddle - of course Henrty watched ther gameand thought the penalty count wrong. I can watch any gme involving Edinburgh adn Scotlsand and see 40 penalty offenses against us not given

TJ wrote:No - the point is its paranoid twaddle.  

"Several aspects of play, as I noted later in my match report, were perplexing.

For instance:

The All Blacks did a reverse kick-off and forced a ruck. Referee Wayne Barnes immediately penalised Richie McCaw in the first play of the match."

"cotland rubbed in the home advantage by lying to the IRB about their jerseys. They showed the IRB a tournament jersey before the tournament which had lots of black in it. The All Blacks found to their amazement that Scotland was actually playing in a greyish/purplish jersey that was very similar to the gray/black New Zealand away kit.

.....................

The IRB had all the evidence they needed to prosecute Scotland for lying to them (at least one official told me that the matter had been raised) but, in the end, nothing was done. At the very least, Scotland should have had a couple of tournament points deducted from their tally for this gamesmanship which bordered on cheating."

etc etc

paranoid twaddle - of course Henrty watched ther gameand thought the penalty count wrong. I can watch any gme involving Edinburgh adn Scotlsand and see 40 penalty offenses against us not given

Go on then TJ, show me a game where Scotland, Edinburgh or even their opposition have played, and not received a penalty for the last hour of the game..........

aucklandlaurie wrote:

TJ wrote:No - the point is its paranoid twaddle.  

"Several aspects of play, as I noted later in my match report, were perplexing.

For instance:

The All Blacks did a reverse kick-off and forced a ruck. Referee Wayne Barnes immediately penalised Richie McCaw in the first play of the match."

"cotland rubbed in the home advantage by lying to the IRB about their jerseys. They showed the IRB a tournament jersey before the tournament which had lots of black in it. The All Blacks found to their amazement that Scotland was actually playing in a greyish/purplish jersey that was very similar to the gray/black New Zealand away kit.

.....................

The IRB had all the evidence they needed to prosecute Scotland for lying to them (at least one official told me that the matter had been raised) but, in the end, nothing was done. At the very least, Scotland should have had a couple of tournament points deducted from their tally for this gamesmanship which bordered on cheating."

etc etc

paranoid twaddle - of course Henrty watched ther gameand thought the penalty count wrong. I can watch any gme involving Edinburgh adn Scotlsand and see 40 penalty offenses against us not given

Go on then TJ, show me a game where Scotland, Edinburgh or even their opposition have played, and not received a penalty for the last hour of the game..........

...where either Edinburgh or anyone were at the time the most penalised side in the competition...as the French were in the 07 tournament until that 'pristine' 60 minutes...

Wow, that was parochial......

I simply hope Barnes get to referee another France-NZ match. Makes up for years of England v. Steve Walsh's team of the moment.

I would have loved a Steve Walsh v. Will Carling confrontation:
Carling: "Steve, I am cuter than you so I should not be penalised"
Walsh: "You bitch"
.

Plllllllleaseeeee, Barnes to ref all NZ games. Owens should ref the final being the best ref in the world, shame he probably won't get the chance.

Gwlad wrote:Plllllllleaseeeee, Barnes to ref all NZ games. Owens should ref the final being the best ref in the world, shame he probably won't get the chance.

I'm picturing Nigel trying to deal with a situation where New Zealand forwards stand off and dont engage at a tackle .... he'd run over and have a conference with the touchies, have a replay on the big screen, drink a bottle of water, then penalise New Zealand for not lying on the ground....In fairness to Nigel, its not his fault that hes probably the best referee in the World.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Plllllllleaseeeee, Barnes to ref all NZ games. Owens should ref the final being the best ref in the world, shame he probably won't get the chance.

I'm picturing Nigel trying to deal with a situation where New Zealand forwards stand off and dont engage at a tackle .... he'd run over and have a conference with the touchies, have a replay on the big screen, drink a bottle of water, then penalise New Zealand for not lying on the ground....In fairness to Nigel, its not his fault that hes probably the best referee in the World.

i see it's now a 'tackle' not a 'breakdown'…..why you guys just can't play the game in the spirit it was intended is beyond me, vanity i suppose.

Gwlad wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Plllllllleaseeeee, Barnes to ref all NZ games. Owens should ref the final being the best ref in the world, shame he probably won't get the chance.

I'm picturing Nigel trying to deal with a situation where New Zealand forwards stand off and dont engage at a tackle .... he'd run over and have a conference with the touchies, have a replay on the big screen, drink a bottle of water, then penalise New Zealand for not lying on the ground....In fairness to Nigel, its not his fault that hes probably the best referee in the World.

i see it's now a 'tackle' not a 'breakdown'…..why you guys just can't play the game in the spirit it was intended is beyond me, vanity i suppose.

Its probably because we know what were talking about, a tackle and a breakdown are two completely different situations although a breakdown often is the outcome of a tackle. vanity has got absolutely nothing to do with it, but thankyou for replying to my post via such a personal thought.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Plllllllleaseeeee, Barnes to ref all NZ games. Owens should ref the final being the best ref in the world, shame he probably won't get the chance.

I'm picturing Nigel trying to deal with a situation where New Zealand forwards stand off and dont engage at a tackle .... he'd run over and have a conference with the touchies, have a replay on the big screen, drink a bottle of water, then penalise New Zealand for not lying on the ground....In fairness to Nigel, its not his fault that hes probably the best referee in the World.

If Owens is the best ref in the world, the sport is truly in the brown and smelly. He is a very good ref, but he has seriously gone down hill lately.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Think your missing the point TJ, the question isnt "why was McCaw penalised?". Its "Why wasnt France penalised?"

Thats always the way with Barnes. The penalties he whistles for are more often than not justifiable however its how he doesnt apply the same standards to the other team so often that makes him probably the dodgiest ref in world rugby.

aucklandlaurie wrote:


Its probably because we know what were talking about, a tackle and a breakdown are two completely different situations although a breakdown often is the outcome of a tackle. vanity has got absolutely nothing to do with it, but thankyou for replying to my post via such a personal thought.

Correct. a tackle occurs when a player is put to the ground or immobilised above the ground. the breakdown is when either a maul or ruck forms - which is when players from BOTH other sides join in the fight for the ball. If no one from the defending side joins in it is not a breakdown - so no offside line is formed

aucklandlaurie wrote:


Go on then TJ, show me a game where Scotland, Edinburgh or even their opposition have played, and not received a penalty for the last hour of the game..........

How about the second Glasgow / Bath game in the euro cup? Glasgow battered away at them most of the second half. Bath gave away (almost) no penalties all game despite frantic goal line defence. corrctly tho IMO - but if I watched tha match againin slow mo i bet I could find 40 "offences"

all that stuff in the article about strips and so on is pure paranoid twaddle

...almost no penalties in most of the second half is a beach away from NONE (meaning zero, zip, nada) in 60 minutes...particularly when the only way you could tell which in the All Black backline were actually All Blacks because of the jerseys they wore.

Anyway, nothing wrong with Barnes these days. He's reffed the AB's several times and has been warmly welcomed to NZ matches several times...can't see what the fuss is about...

TJ wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:


Go on then TJ, show me a game where Scotland, Edinburgh or even their opposition have played, and not received a penalty for the last hour of the game..........

How about the second Glasgow / Bath game in the euro cup?  Glasgow battered away at them most of the second half.  Bath gave away (almost) no penalties all game despite frantic goal line defence.  corrctly tho IMO - but if I watched tha match againin slow mo i bet I could find 40 "offences"

all that stuff in the article about strips and so on is pure paranoid twaddle

TJ could you please give me the date of that game so that I can watch it. the venue might be helpful too.